Mavs fans...whats good with the 0-7 record vs winning clubs since the trade? (article)

[j0e hustle]

People get so mesmerized by Kidd's 10-10-10 stats, that his deficiencies get overlooked (mid-range/3pt shot). Plus haven't known him to be real clutchin the latter of his illustrious career

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...jy-celticsmavericks032108&prov=yhoo&type=lgnshttp://

 

[datznasty]

It's partly not the greatest fit for Kidd as far as the players, but even worse is the horrendous coaching job Avery Johnson does. The Mavericks averageage is over 30

 

[rocboys]

the gm is to blame. he should have seen this a mile away if he was jerry west.
im questioning Kidd's work ethic, how can you be that horrible. i know that Nash shoots hours by himself, thats the work you should put in. i feel bad formavs fans, they were 1st last year and now, almost 8th.

 

[barondavis5]

that was a good trade...


















NOT!

 

[ocks]

I'm tellin ya'll trade him straight up for AI in the offseason. Both teams will be happy

 

[pharelfor3]

better for the Lakers......

 

[sohi 23]

Originally Posted by Ocks

I'm tellin ya'll trade him straight up for AI in the offseason. Both teams will be happy

You know what.
That's actually a pretty good idea.

 

[rapsa]

playoff results is all that matters

 

[rocboys]

it looks they gonna be 8th place and possibly facing the 1st seed Lakers. How is 6'8'' Bass gonna reboun against Bynum or Mbenga (who's gamealso remind me of Bynum)? and kidd probably average 5 points max. that would be a sweep.

 

[sohi 23]

rocboys wrote:

Mbenga (who's game also remind me of Bynum)? and kidd probably average 5 points max.
You should see the look on my face right now

 

[rocboys]

that's what I saw against the Sonics..he got that baby hooks similar to Bynum even hes not a dunker...is Kareem mentoring Mbenga?

 

[ac4three]

JKidd is killing me fantasy team.

 

[bonafide hustla]

^shouldn't be killing you that bad outside of points. he was top tier fantasy wise in NJ and he wasn't putting up much diff numbers.

and Kidd + Mavs can work, I just think Avery Johnson and the squad need to come up with a formula that best fits them. They've given all of the good teamsa good down to the wire game, they're just not putting it together. I honestly don't think they're even 80% meshed yet. Kidd takes 3s and theylook out of place. Josh Howard is still a 1 man fast break. Dirk still grabs the rebound sometimes and pushes the ball up the court. Kidd doesn't evenlook on the same page with them dudes. He's gonna get his assists and all that regardless, but the gel factor doesn't APPEAR to have set in

Look at Dampier tho. Kidd's entry pass alone is elevating his utility. at the end of the day, I still feel they just haven't meshed yet.

 

[rexanglorum]

For one thing, it is tough for a team to adjust quickly when you get a new point guard. It is tough for the new point to adjust to a totally new set ofteammates and it is tough for the team to adjust to the new lead guard's style of play. Players who play other positions can mesh quicker with their newteams.

Eventually this Dallas team could be better, on balance, compared to how they were before the trade. Jason Kidd is a triple double every night and a very gooddefensive point when he's playing well. While he does not have a good jumper, he can penetrate and he is a gifted play maker in the open court andtransition and his teammates should be able to shoot well enough to spread the court let J Kidd produce.

If they had made this trade last summer or early in the season, Dallas could have been a very good team. They could have maybe been able to play D and turnstops into fast breaks and short of that create lots of semi transition with shooters running to the wings and Jason Kidd either getting easy shots for histeammates or setting up Josh Howard or Dirk Nowitzki with passes where they would have a defender on his heels and/or a mismatch and Dirk or Josh Howard couldcatch the ball within 15 feet and be able to really exploit tempo, spacing and the ability to be in the triple threat position well within their range. Inaddition, that talent could have been effective in the half court with the spot up shooters, the two scoring forwards, dirks shooting and Jason Kidd'sability to grind it out in the half court. A Dirk Nowitizki and Jason Kidd pick and roll can potentially be a very scary look for the opposition and staple forchurning out points in the half court for Dallas.

As it is though, they have not had enough time to adjust and they have just been underachieving in general. I think that the Mavs really are mentally soft. Thefact that they lost a 2-0 lead in the '06 finals and that they lost to Golden State last year has left many of the their players doubting themselves. Thiscurrent Mavericks roster is good enough to compete with anyone but I think that the team's psyche is badly bruised.

Oh well, this all means that my Lakers will have one less serious contender to worry about in the post season.

 

[N41D]

The problem with the Kidd trade is that there needed to be other moves made to fit the right personnel around Jason. The Mavs aren't an overly athleticbunch. Kidd needs guys that'll get out and run the lanes and attack the rim. Josh Howard should be that guy, but for whatever reason he's fallen inlove with the jumper. With that trade, there just wasn't much time to make the other moves to put the right guys around him. I really think Cuban somewhatmade that move with an eye towards next year, because he'll have more time to put the right pieces in place. Find a way to go get Corey Maggette. Maybethey go the trade route, and move Josh Howard for another big man. I really think they'll make a decision between Stackhouse and Terry this offseason, andmove one or the other... You can find long, athletic perimeter players and PFs like Carl Landry in the second round of the draft, and it's generally nottough at all to move up and acquire those picks.

There will be a bunch of roster tinkering for the Mavs this offseason...

This current Mavericks roster is good enough to compete with anyone but I think that the team's psyche is badly bruised.
That's really what it comes down to. This team is talented enough to compete with anyone. But they have to prove to everyone,including themselves, that they can beat the best teams again. I mean, you look at that 0-7 record, and only one of those games was a really bad loss. The NewOrleans game was coming off of one shoot around with Kidd, and you could tell they just weren't ready to be on the floor with each other yet. Excluding theRockets game where Dirk didn't play... Utah by 4, LA by 4, San Antonio by 2, Boston by 4, LA by 1... That's 5 losses by 15 points. This team absolutelycan compete with anyone in the league, they just need to find ways to close out games and play with intensity for the entire 48 minutes.

The schedule plays in their favor the rest of the way, they need to make a push back up the standings a bit, and try to avoid the Lakers in the first round. Ireally feel they can beat just about anyone else, but I don't think they want to mess with Kobe.

Oh, and Avery Johnson has been absolutely terrible adjusting in-game and exploiting mis-matches... Other than the second half of the Laker game where hefinally found a way to keep Kobe under wraps to an extent, he's been awful. He better hope it picks up and comes together, or he'll be on the curbafter a playoff loss.

 

[hungweedawg]

i'm not a dallas fan and i live near the city....i thought this trade was bad to begin with. Kidd is getting old and i thought they needed a big manmore than a PG....they had Devin Harris and they were doing well with him....oh well, good news for my lakers

 

[jjlt76]

avery "mother f'ing" johnson is the problem.... even worse is that the loses were by single digits....... oooo so close

 

[vc3fan]

Jason is playing in a system that he did not want to in New Jersey. He wants to get out and "run" (age has slowed that a little bit). Dallasdoesn't really do that.

He also had control over rebounding and in dallas, he has some pretty good rebounders in dallas. I use to say that the Jason Kidd I loved to watch as a Netsfan was when at the end of the first half, he had 0 to 4 points, 6 rebounds and 7 or 8 dimes. By the end of the game, he would have double digit points andclose to a triple double overall. The roster that Dallas has, doesn't need Jason to rebound like he is the only one who can and has a good offense aroundhim. But when your asked to shoot more as a career 35% shooter and aren't abe to control the game, you will not have the Jkidd you saw in Jersey.

Jason has had problems with every coach that once played the point or a guard position (Skiles and Scott) because he never liked being told how to play hisgame. Right now they are trying to mesh just like we are with Devin and sadly, I think we have moved on after seeing how devin can play in a less restrictedoffense and how impressive he has been. Hopefully in the off season, cuban will make moves that will benefit Kidd and Dirk to open up the offense to make Kiddmore useful. As Nets fan, I am happy with the trade since Devin is quick and has a jumper, something Kidd has not had in the final 2 to 3 years of his stintwith the nets. (Game 6 vs Cavs was the last time I saw Kidd go nuts shooting the ball)

 

[bonafide hustla]

Originally Posted by VC3FAN

Jason is playing in a system that he did not want to in New Jersey. He wants to get out and "run" (age has slowed that a little bit). Dallas doesn't really do that.

He also had control over rebounding and in dallas, he has some pretty good rebounders in dallas. I use to say that the Jason Kidd I loved to watch as a Nets fan was when at the end of the first half, he had 0 to 4 points, 6 rebounds and 7 or 8 dimes. By the end of the game, he would have double digit points and close to a triple double overall. The roster that Dallas has, doesn't need Jason to rebound like he is the only one who can and has a good offense around him. But when your asked to shoot more as a career 35% shooter and aren't abe to control the game, you will not have the Jkidd you saw in Jersey.

Jason has had problems with every coach that once played the point or a guard position (Skiles and Scott) because he never liked being told how to play his game. Right now they are trying to mesh just like we are with Devin and sadly, I think we have moved on after seeing how devin can play in a less restricted offense and how impressive he has been. Hopefully in the off season, cuban will make moves that will benefit Kidd and Dirk to open up the offense to make Kidd more useful. As Nets fan, I am happy with the trade since Devin is quick and has a jumper, something Kidd has not had in the final 2 to 3 years of his stint with the nets. (Game 6 vs Cavs was the last time I saw Kidd go nuts shooting the ball)

Kidd hasn't had a jumper his entire career. There's no way you can slice Kidd not making your team better. I will justify the trade being morebeneficial only because yall got a whole bunch for Kidd and yall got some future outlook. But just Kidd for Harris would be a loss. The nets might not evenmake the playoffs. I personally don't think they are, but who know they might

and far as Kidd...when you have a distributing PG damn near any system can work with him. He can play in a system where he is literally not depended on toscore, but I think because they haven't completely meshed, they rely on Kidd to do a little bit of scoring and actually attacking the rim. They don'teven need it besides an occassional 3 (which he shoots OK when wide open). Jason Terry needs to stay. Josh can stay, but he just needs to learn to beflexible. Mavs at 100% will compete

 

[N41D]

He can play in a system where he is literally not depended on to score, but I think because they haven't completely meshed, they rely on Kidd to do a little bit of scoring and actually attacking the rim.
People can dog Kidd because he's not scoring and whatever, but he's still distributing the ball and rebounding well... The biggest problemwith him right now, is that he seems really unaggressive. He's not getting into the paint and attacking the rim. He's short-arming jumpers,almost like he doesn't know whether he wants to shoot it or not... Just get aggressive. If you've got an open look, take it. If you're in an isosituation, attack the defender. He's too hesitant right now, and it seems like he still feels like the "new guy" on the team and doesn't wantto really assert himself...

I think anyone suggesting that he's too old to heavily impact a game and that he's lost too much to compete with PGs in the West is out of their damnminds. He just needs to be more assertive. And part of that is Avery Johnson letting the reigns go and letting Kidd do what he does best...

 

[mario23407]

isn't he shooting like 50% from the 3 with the mavs?

 

[iceman3699]

hahaha...love your avy Nowitness41Dirk

 

[j0e hustle]

Then should Avery get canned? If he's holding Kidd back and also not making adequate adjustments...what is he doing well for the team?

 

[N41D]

Originally Posted by J0E HUSTLE

Then should Avery get canned? If he's holding Kidd back and also not making adequate adjustments...what is he doing well for the team?

Yeah, Avery's job is very much on the line... Trust, if this team flops in the first round again, bye bye Avery. He wanted Kidd. He wanted a PG he couldtrust to manage a game without his help from the sidelines... He got his wish, and he's still micromanaging... His stubbornness, and the fact that he stillhasn't really drawn the line between his coaching career and his playing days, could end up costing him his job. He coaches like he's still playing andrunning the point on his team, and you just cannot do that and be successful. Let players play. Worry about making adjustments and finding ways to exploitmismatches.

 

[shuges]

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

The problem with the Kidd trade is that there needed to be other moves made to fit the right personnel around Jason. The Mavs aren't an overly athletic bunch. Kidd needs guys that'll get out and run the lanes and attack the rim. Josh Howard should be that guy, but for whatever reason he's fallen in love with the jumper. With that trade, there just wasn't much time to make the other moves to put the right guys around him. I really think Cuban somewhat made that move with an eye towards next year, because he'll have more time to put the right pieces in place.

I agree AND disagree. I agree that the personnel around Kidd isn't suited to "his" type of team. Slashers. Athletic marvels. Etc.Which is why I seriously questioned his desire to be out of NJ. He had Vince, RJ, Boone, and Williams. Why would he want to leave those guys?? He pushed to getout of the Eastern Conference and now look... Dallas is on the verge of not even making the playoffs.

Where I disagree with you Nowitness, is that a great pg like Kidd can and should be able to still help a team as stacked as Dallasis (similar to what bonafide hustla said: "and far as Kidd...when you have a distributing PG damn near any system canwork with him."). I could be wrong here, but I'm guessing that Kidd isn't happy with SOMETHING. And that's what could be affecting hisplay (in terms of attitude and approach). Whether it's the losing (against the good teams), the philosophy, the COACH, or whatever, Kidd always seems tohave a problem with SOMETHING. And I'm a big J Kidd fan. But the facts are facts.

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

Excluding the Rockets game where Dirk didn't play... Utah by 4, LA by 4, San Antonio by 2, Boston by 4, LA by 1... That's 5 losses by 15 points.

I think we can all put this on coaching no? It's always been said (no matter what sport it is), that close games are usually decided by coaching. Inthis regard, Avery is doing a terrible job. Not saying he needs to be fired just yet. But he better hury up and pull a Tom Coughlin.

Originally Posted by VC3FAN

Jason is playing in a system that he did not want to in New Jersey. He wants to get out and "run" (age has slowed that a little bit). Dallas doesn't really do that.

He also had control over rebounding and in dallas, he has some pretty good rebounders in dallas. I use to say that the Jason Kidd I loved to watch as a Nets fan was when at the end of the first half, he had 0 to 4 points, 6 rebounds and 7 or 8 dimes. By the end of the game, he would have double digit points and close to a triple double overall. The roster that Dallas has, doesn't need Jason to rebound like he is the only one who can and has a good offense around him. But when your asked to shoot more as a career 35% shooter and aren't abe to control the game, you will not have the Jkidd you saw in Jersey.

Jason has had problems with every coach that once played the point or a guard position (Skiles and Scott) because he never liked being told how to play his game.

Well said.