mehh..

[cashbanks]

Sleaze Jar Omens wrote:

---

Originally Posted by CashBanks

Originally Posted by Sleaze Jar Omens

soooo you post a video of some geezer NOT answering my question thanks for the input

you deleted my answer FROM the post you quoted son

Originally Posted by Sleaze Jar Omens

Originally Posted by CashBanks

my question for silly putty or anyone else who doesnt believe in God who'd like to answer

What if YOU'RE wrong? What if there is a God and He's PISSED you've been disrespecting him?
Because if religious people are wrong when they die no biggie if you're wrong when you die kinda gunna suck huh?

I'll take that L if I have to take it. no death bed repentance for me.

I got you're answer just didnt get what the geezer was for

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by CashBanks

thanks for not answering either bro

why is it sooo hard for dudes to answer straight questions without postin a buncha #!%# that doesnt answer either?

dues post a wall of useless #%# text instead

If I'm wrong then I'll face the consequences (at the mercy of whatever it is out there that may or may not judge me or whichever God is the correct one?)---is that the answer you were looking for or do I need to answer again till you hear something you like?

Now YOUR turn to answer since you think that question is so important, it applies to you as well---What if YOU'RE WRONG?

Unless you're implying that being in ANY religion gives us that sense of comfort about the after-life, then I'd be safe with worshipping Spiderman and Satan--What if you're wrong about the Lord Spidey?

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by CashBanks

thanks for not answering either bro

why is it sooo hard for dudes to answer straight questions without postin a buncha #!%# that doesnt answer either?

dues post a wall of useless #%# text instead

I responded to you already:

Originally Posted by CashBanks

my question for silly putty or anyone else who doesnt believe in God who'd like to answer

What if YOU'RE wrong? What if there is a God and He's PISSED you've been disrespecting him?
Because if religious people are wrong when they die no biggie if you're wrong when you die kinda gunna suck huh?

This is a logical fallacy called "Pascal's wager" postulated by Blaise Pascal, a french renaissance man in the 16th century.



It says, if i'm right then i get to go to heaven, but if i'm wrong then I go to hell, so its safer to believe...except its a complete fallacy.




1. It assumes that you can trick an ALL KNOWING GOD by believing only to escape punishment, not because you literally believe in the tenets of the religion. You think god wouldn't see through believers who were half-stepping, no matter how much they tried to cover it up?




2. It assumes that only one god is the right answer. Its very possible that you're praying to the WRONG god out of the thousands of other ones you claim not to believe in. Surely with all that you value on ancient people then its possible that their gods may have been more plausible.




3. It says that faith costs you nothing...which is wrong. You will have wasted all investments into literally nothing.




If you assume that its better to believe in god... then you must also conclude that you better hope you pray to the RIGHT god...then you must also choose the right form of that god. Catholics and Protestants differ greatly... but they differ even more from eastern orthodox...and christianity differs from islam...which differs from hinduism and all the various forms of hinduism...And buddhism also has many many variations that people even fight over....all because the number of people who agree with you, doesn't make the claim any more valid.




Your claim, is illogical.







Don't let the title scare you. Its just the best video of a clear and concise way to put the claim:




EDIT: That Old "Geezer" is one of the foremost evolutionary biologists and respected figures in rhetoric of his time. Thats Richard Dawkins. I suggest you start reading a little more.

Originally Posted by OnTheNephs

The idea of different religions is not that difficult to understand, and the fact that you keep bringing it up is �a weak point in your posts. Look at when the 3 most recent religions (Islam, Christianity, Judaism) were revealed and the differences in time,�behavior, and interactions of humans. Its not that God was imperfect the first time around, it is humans who are not perfect. You keep confusing the two, understandably you do not believe in a God, however I am explaining why this is the case.�

The abrahamic god is the source of three different religions. Which one is right?




You mean to tell me god couldn't get his creations THREE TIMES to accept the right form of his word? So he created three different versions?




It must be god's will then to screw over the things it created for the things it knew they would do.

 

[yngsimba.sneakershoebox]

 

[onthenephs]

The abrahamic god is the source of three different religions. Which one is right?�




You mean to tell me god couldn't get his creations THREE TIMES to accept the right form of his word? So he created three different versions?�




It must be god's will then to screw over the things it created for the things it knew they would do.�

This may be hard for you to grasp but all the three religions are right, and the thousands of other religions that came before those three. At least Muslim's understanding of religion and word of god. We take all those religions and believe in them, we believe in the messengers who brought those religions, we believe the prophets who came to guide. You are caught up on this notion of right and wrong, and belief in the wrong one means you are doomed. This is not the case. Islam defines all religions as a continuum.  And some one once posted this before in these religious threads and you ignored it or played it of with out fully understanding it. 

As a student in university, why do they switch the text book every 2 years? other than to make money from students, do concepts not change? This is a very narrow view that you chose here.

 

[sillyputty]

Exhibit A:



The power of prayer

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by OnTheNephs

The abrahamic god is the source of three different religions. Which one is right?�




You mean to tell me god couldn't get his creations THREE TIMES to accept the right form of his word? So he created three different versions?�




It must be god's will then to screw over the things it created for the things it knew they would do.�

This may be hard for you to grasp but all the three religions are right, and the thousands of other religions that came before those three. At least Muslim's understanding of religion and word of god. We take all those religions and believe in them, we believe in the messengers who brought those religions, we believe the prophets who came to guide. You are caught up on this notion of right and wrong, and belief in the wrong one means you are doomed. This is not the case. Islam defines all religions as a continuum.  And some one once posted this before in these religious threads and you ignored it or played it of with out fully understanding it. 

As a student in university, why do they switch the text book every 2 years? other than to make money from students, do concepts not change? This is a very narrow view that you chose here.


Yep and Muslims and Jews believe Jesus Christ is the son of God who died for all our sins---Muslims, Jews and Christians are simultaneously correct and there are little to no fundamental differences in the three religions

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by OnTheNephs

The abrahamic god is the source of three different religions. Which one is right?




You mean to tell me god couldn't get his creations THREE TIMES to accept the right form of his word? So he created three different versions?




It must be god's will then to screw over the things it created for the things it knew they would do.

This may be hard for you to grasp but all the three religions are right, and the thousands of other religions that came before those three. 


So even the polytheistic religions? 

 Zeus, Thor, Ra, Odin? All real? Jove? Athena? Anansi the Spider?!

Hell, even God says "don't accept any other gods before me" ...and in that moment he says that other gods exist. 

You to tell me that the native american gods and spirits are the same as the christian and traditional western african ones? 

At least Muslim's understanding of religion and word of god.

You said all the other religions were valid, so why do you only cling to islam?

We take all those religions and believe in them, we believe in the messengers who brought those religions, we believe the prophets who came to guide.

So why don't you follow THOSE religions?

You are caught up on this notion of right and wrong, and belief in the wrong one means you are doomed.

each religion has prescriptions for non-believers.



In the Quran it outlines strict punishments for infidels. Same with the Bible and other religious texts. Are you ignoring this?

This is not the case.

You haven't read your quran.

Islam defines all religions as a continuum.

  What about the religions that came after islam?

And some one once posted this before in these religious threads and you ignored it or played it of with out fully understanding it. 

No. I thoroughly debunked it.

As a student in university, why do they switch the text book every 2 years? other than to make money from students, do concepts not change? This is a very narrow view that you chose here.

Maybe because the scientific fields add new information?




Is this a serious statement? 




Hell, I have a new copy of a biochem book I use as a reference that added entire chapters of brand new technology for different forms of assays and analysis that didn't exist 10 years ago. 




Maybe we should use biology books from the 70s. I guess that we will imagine Polymerase Chain Reactions never get to be invented. 

Concepts may change, but most importantly they are UPDATED. New information is adopted. Better understanding is found. Are you more comfortable with us going with the first edition of the world atlas in 1930? 

...You still looking for the Ottoman Empire, homie? 

 

[onthenephs]

You see what im saying man, your misconceptions allow you to judge with out fully understanding. Its cool honestly, im trying to be as open in this thread as possible and discuss things, because this really does interest me. However when i see dumb $@! responses it makes me think this is useless. Not that I am smart, but i would hope those that talk about religion KNOW religion, and those that talk about Atheism KNOW atheism, we dont need a whole bunch of people playing in the offside.

 

[Jordan8]

Putty how many tabs do you have open when you post?

 

[onthenephs]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by OnTheNephs

The abrahamic god is the source of three different religions. Which one is right?




You mean to tell me god couldn't get his creations THREE TIMES to accept the right form of his word? So he created three different versions?




It must be god's will then to screw over the things it created for the things it knew they would do.

This may be hard for you to grasp but all the three religions are right, and the thousands of other religions that came before those three. 

So even the polytheistic religions? 

 Zeus, Thor, Ra, Odin? All real? Jove? Athena? Anansi the Spider?!

Hell, even God says "don't accept any other gods before me" ...and in that moment he says that other gods exist. 

You to tell me that the native american gods and spirits are the same as the christian and traditional western african ones? 

At least Muslim's understanding of religion and word of god.

You said all the other religions were valid, so why do you only cling to islam?

We take all those religions and believe in them, we believe in the messengers who brought those religions, we believe the prophets who came to guide.

So why don't you follow THOSE religions?

You are caught up on this notion of right and wrong, and belief in the wrong one means you are doomed.

each religion has prescriptions for non-believers.



In the Quran it outlines strict punishments for infidels. Same with the Bible and other religious texts. Are you ignoring this?

This is not the case.

You haven't read your quran.

Islam defines all religions as a continuum.

  What about the religions that came after islam?

And some one once posted this before in these religious threads and you ignored it or played it of with out fully understanding it. 

No. I thoroughly debunked it.

As a student in university, why do they switch the text book every 2 years? other than to make money from students, do concepts not change? This is a very narrow view that you chose here.

Maybe because the scientific fields add new information?




Is this a serious statement? 




Hell, I have a new copy of a biochem book I use as a reference that added entire chapters of brand new technology for different forms of assays and analysis that didn't exist 10 years ago. 




Maybe we should use biology books from the 70s. I guess that we will imagine Polymerase Chain Reactions never get to be invented. 

Concepts may change, but most importantly they are UPDATED. New information is adopted. Better understanding is found. Are you more comfortable with us going with the first edition of the world atlas in 1930? 

...You still looking for the Ottoman Empire, homie? 

... so basically what i said with regards to new religions coming down because of differences in human knowledge, is what you are saying....? so what did i say that was wrong?
And i do not know if those other religions are right or wrong straightup,  I do not know if those religions were by God or random men. I do not know what is the concept behind each one, and whether it ties in with my concepts of a monotheistic God. I've made that conclusion the same way you concluded some links that were missing with in your logic. 

What i do know is in Islam, it is clear that all religions were sent by god. You keep telling me to read the Quran, as if you have read more than excerpts online. I did read a majority of it. And it precisely says that all religions were sent by God and humans are the ones who stray away. 

AND your point about the text book is exactly why i only cling to Islam now.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by OnTheNephs

You see what im saying man, your misconceptions allow you to judge with out fully understanding. Its cool honestly, im trying to be as open in this thread as possible and discuss things, because this really does interest me. However when i see dumb $@! responses it makes me think this is useless. Not that I am smart, but i would hope those that talk about religion KNOW religion, and those that talk about Atheism KNOW atheism, we dont need a whole bunch of people playing in the offside.

Buck up, son. Quit all that crying. 
Get out of here with this whining.



Stop ranting about "misconceptions"...state your case homie. No one is stopping you. If you don't like how others receive your argument, change it up. Thats like the teacher complaining that her students dont' get it. Its her fault, not theirs. If you're teaching, make it applicable so others get it. 




Take some responsibility for your ideology. 




Plead your defense. Issue your claims and offer areas for people to see things the way you think they should. You can't just say others have "misconceptions" then act like thats your license to NOT correct them. At that point, its as much your fault as theirs that they don't understand you. You need to do a better job at standing on your own two before making an argument. 




If there is something you think I don't understand...show us where the error is and correct our understanding. Its your job to state your case. You have to show that other people should believe what you're saying. 




You make the assumption that islam is the way? Prove it.




The burden of proof is on the person making the claim.


You're crying foul because nothing you're saying makes any freaking sense.



If you want to defend islam, do so. But don't act like once you drop an argument that its free from criticism. 




MAYBE you should just do a better job at defending it. 




Make better arguments.




You had the AUDACITY to say that all religions are actually the same in islam...oh really? Do you REALLY believe that? So you mean to tell us that the ancient chinese mysticism and japanese shinto, buddhism, hinduism, norse mythology, the Egyptians, and everyone from the incas to the aztecs are actually...MUSLIMS?! 




For REAL son? 




Seriously?

 

[onthenephs]

Yo putty man, its not even that im crying bro. If i have a conversation with people who portray an image of intellect and rationality, and 100 correct statements in a certain topic, then those are my expectations. 
All i said was for those who are knowledgable in certain areas, stick to them. No need in bashing what you do not know. In any of these threads i have never bashed atheism not because i do not want to, but because i do not understand a majority of it. Much like you and antons' stance on religion. Neither one of you know anything about any of the religions except what you researched in debunking religion. Do you understand what im saying?

 

[onthenephs]

Yo putty man, its not even that im crying bro. If i have a conversation with people who portray an image of intellect and rationality, and 100 correct statements in a certain topic, then those are my expectations. 
All i said was for those who are knowledgable in certain areas, stick to them. No need in bashing what you do not know. In any of these threads i have never bashed atheism not because i do not want to, but because i do not understand a majority of it. Much like you and antons' stance on religion. Neither one of you know anything about any of the religions except what you researched in debunking religion. Do you understand what im saying?

 

[mp3911]

Originally Posted by CashBanks

my question for silly putty or anyone else who doesnt believe in God who'd like to answer

What if YOU'RE wrong? What if there is a God and He's PISSED you've been disrespecting him?
Because if religious people are wrong when they die no biggie if you're wrong when you die kinda gunna suck huh?

What if Superman is watching me right now? What happens when if you die, and you don't believe Superman comics word for word, Superman's PISSED you've been disrespecting him? IT DOESN'T MATTER. There is NO absolute way we're going to know if there is a God or not. I use the material given to me to come up with the most logical conclusion about my life. If there's a God, great. He didn't do a good enough job convincing me. Guess I'm going to burn in hell for the rest of eternity.

 

[triple homicide]

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by OnTheNephs

Yo putty man, its not even that im crying bro. If i have a conversation with people who portray an image of intellect and rationality, and 100 correct statements in a certain topic, then those are my expectations. 
All i said was for those who are knowledgable in certain areas, stick to them. No need in bashing what you do not know. In any of these threads i have never bashed atheism not because i do not want to, but because i do not understand a majority of it. Much like you and antons' stance on religion. Neither one of you know anything about any of the religions except what you researched in debunking religion. Do you understand what im saying?

Irony, cause you don't seem to know anything about those religions either

Everybody thinks they're are experts in religion, I grew up in a religious household I know enough b


Muslims, Jews and Christians worship the same God but there are fundamental differences in ideology between the Judeochristian religions and anyone who denies this can try telling that to religious leaders in those respective religions


Try telling a Muslims or Jew that Jesus Christ is the son of God

Jesus Christ is no more than a prophet to Muslims and Jews but not the son of God

It's ironic that most religious people I speak to don't even know the God in the bible, Koran and Torah are the same God--and non-believers, agnostics and atheists are the ones who are ignorant to religion? Most Christians don't even read the bible for themselves they just go to church one Sunday out of the month to get told what's in it



QUIT YA BLOODCLOT CRYIN'

 

[yngsimba.sneakershoebox]

 

[retro23j]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

info on your denomination?

 

[cheese wagstaff]

Posting for later. I'm about to drop some of that Catholic school boy-turned atheist knowledge 

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by OnTheNephs

sillyputty wrote:

---

OnTheNephs wrote:

---

This may be hard for you to grasp but all the three religions are right, and the thousands of other religions that came before those three. 

So even the polytheistic religions? 

 Zeus, Thor, Ra, Odin? All real? Jove? Athena? Anansi the Spider?!

Hell, even God says "don't accept any other gods before me" ...and in that moment he says that other gods exist. 

You to tell me that the native american gods and spirits are the same as the christian and traditional western african ones? 

At least Muslim's understanding of religion and word of god.

You said all the other religions were valid, so why do you only cling to islam?

We take all those religions and believe in them, we believe in the messengers who brought those religions, we believe the prophets who came to guide.

So why don't you follow THOSE religions?

You are caught up on this notion of right and wrong, and belief in the wrong one means you are doomed.

each religion has prescriptions for non-believers.



In the Quran it outlines strict punishments for infidels. Same with the Bible and other religious texts. Are you ignoring this?

This is not the case.

You haven't read your quran.

Islam defines all religions as a continuum.

  What about the religions that came after islam?

And some one once posted this before in these religious threads and you ignored it or played it of with out fully understanding it. 

No. I thoroughly debunked it.

As a student in university, why do they switch the text book every 2 years? other than to make money from students, do concepts not change? This is a very narrow view that you chose here.

Maybe because the scientific fields add new information?




Is this a serious statement? 




Hell, I have a new copy of a biochem book I use as a reference that added entire chapters of brand new technology for different forms of assays and analysis that didn't exist 10 years ago. 




Maybe we should use biology books from the 70s. I guess that we will imagine Polymerase Chain Reactions never get to be invented. 

Concepts may change, but most importantly they are UPDATED. New information is adopted. Better understanding is found. Are you more comfortable with us going with the first edition of the world atlas in 1930? 

...You still looking for the Ottoman Empire, homie? 







... so basically what i said with regards to new religions coming down because of differences in human knowledge, is what you are saying....?

What? Where did anything I say even admit that? 



Thats NOTHING that I was saying.




New religions have to exist where old religions failed because all of their tenets get debunked. 

 so what did i say that was wrong?

That for some reason since science books get updated that religion is more reliable.

And i do not know if those other religions are right or wrong straightup,

  YOU SAID THEY WERE ALL CORRECT.

I do not know if those religions were by God or random men.

BRUH...you JUST said they were all the right forms of religion!

I do not know what is the concept behind each one, and whether it ties in with my concepts of a monotheistic God. I've made that conclusion the same way you concluded some links that were missing with in your logic.

SO WHY DO YOU SAY THEY ARE ALL "RIGHT"? 



This is your problem. You start to say stuff...then when called out on it you back-track on literally EVERY point. 

What i do know is in Islam, it is clear that all religions were sent by god.

You just said you don't know if all religions were mad-made or not...



So which is it?

You keep telling me to read the Quran, as if you have read more than excerpts online. I did read a majority of it. And it precisely says that all religions were sent by God and humans are the ones who stray away. 

Of course it says that...thats the obligatory non-opt-out clause.




Islam is right because it says all the others are wrong.




Thats no different than the Patriots telling their fans that the patriots are the best team in the world. 

AND your point about the text book is exactly why i only cling to Islam now.

So you would rather cling to a book that NEVER gets updated and CONSTANTLY disproven and debunked over a book that learns new things and compiles them so that people can learn more than they once knew? 

Originally Posted by OnTheNephs

Yo putty man, its not even that im crying bro.

Figuratively...not literally.




...but your complaining is unwarranted.


If you don't like the critique, make better arguments.

 If i have a conversation with people who portray an image of intellect and rationality, and 100 correct statements in a certain topic, then those are my expectations.

You haven't even done that, for yourself. 

All i said was for those who are knowledgable in certain areas, stick to them.

You're not even knowledgable in islam enough to NOT contradict yourself.

No need in bashing what you do not know.

No need to assume what you don't understand then. You contradicted yourself like 6x on the same topic and then used the quran as a source.



You were the one who had a problem with science books being updated...

In any of these threads i have never bashed atheism not because i do not want to, but because i do not understand a majority of it.

I. DO. NOT. BELIEVE. YOUR. CLAIMS. ABOUT. YOUR. GOD. BECAUSE. YOU. DO. NOT. STATE. A GOOD. CASE. TO BELIEVE. YOUR CLAIMS.



SIMPLE.

Much like you and antons' stance on religion. Neither one of you know anything about any of the religions except what you researched in debunking religion. Do you understand what im saying?

Are the statements that debunk your religion false?




Tell us that.




That being said, I grew up as a christian... a liberal one at that, but I was a believer when I was very very young. I know enough about religion to make a critique of it.




Do us a favor.




Tell us where our critiques are wrong. Like legitimately false.




If islam is true, then it wouldn't have any fallacies or holes in it, right? 

 

[antonlavey]

Isn't it funny how people become skeptical of religions and "supernatural" beliefs that are thought up by modern men?

So it's more credible when a dude on hallucinagens came up with it 2000 years ago but when we do it today we're considered crazy

 

[Jordan8]

I've come to the conclusion that people are just wired different

 militant atheists and crazy religious people are one in the same. they aren't balanced individuals at all

This is probably why most of the great minds in history were agnostic because its foolish to claim to know the absolute truth.

Its easy as hell to not believe in religion I dont understand why so many of yall take pride in not believing in something and bash people who do

I've heard old people tell me family stories that I know couldnt be true the "stable human being " in me didnt feel the need to bring up the "facts"

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by fraij da 5 11

Originally Posted by yngSIMBA

Originally Posted by fraij da 5 11

You defined the wrong word though...



[h2]re·li·gion[/h2]   [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe.

Oh, ok.. If you're gonna join the argument, please do so with some respect my man..
You went and found a single definition of the word religion that will fit your argument, and you conveniently leave out half of it..

From the same source...

[h2]re·li·gion[/h2]

noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, 

especially when considered as the creationof a superhuman agency or agencies, 

usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing amoral 

code governing the conduct of human affairs.

I left out half of it that contains words like "especially when" and "often" and "usually". And left in the only absolute sentence in the definition.

Problem?

Nah, why would you assume ever atheist believes in the Big Bang?

I don't, I said those CAN be their set of beliefs... Point being those are a set of beliefs.

That's not case specific to atheists though. Answer the rest of my post that you didn't quote.

 

[onthenephs]

Yo in no way am I coming at you, but your idea of quoting things out of context and making it big font is played out.
I said that religion is a continuum and continues to be updated/perfected hence why all religions that passed were from the creator and the final religion being Islam. Islam it self says it is the final religion. Now this is dumb to quote the Quran as my source, but realistically speaking has another religion came into fruition since? Scientology... ... Apart from a cult? None. So im left to understand that this idea it was the final religion was right. Simple proof for me right there. its been 1500 years and there has been no religion that has come in the scope of christianty or Islam.  

The idea of the text book thing was exactly proving my point. I said that it NEEDS to be updated because of different concepts, hence why religion kept on going through changes. You take this as the whole idea of religion is wrong. Now do you not see your issue here?

Also to make it clear for you guys, if you read the old testament thoroughly you will see that no where does Jesus profess being the son of God. More correlattion to the idea that Humans are the ones who stray. This is by no means a cop out. It is true humans are not perfect.