NBA Legacy Thread, Update Resumes

[bhzmafia14]

I guess I don't see it as a knock at Steph to say he would be a little different on another team.

I just think there aren't many guys in the NBA that's capable of making a team good/great/elite if you put them there. Trust me, I know the Warriors cannot do what they do without him. I know Steph put together some historically great seasons during his MVP years.

If I see Lillard/Steph swap teams, do the tables turn around? Do we see Portland being that much better and the Warriors taking a step back? Its all hypothetical and I don't even want to take anything away from Steph as a player. Its just hard seeing him during certain games and I really don't notice him much and think that's he's the same caliber player of a Lebron/KD, etc.

At the same time, I see him in other games where he's so good and his performances are too much for another team to handle.

 

[LebronHasMoreFinalsMVPs]

Steph cant be your best player if you want to win a championship. Not a knock on him he is a great player top 20-25 at best

 

[wavycrocket]

I guess I don't see it as a knock at Steph to say he would be a little different on another team.

I just think there aren't many guys in the NBA that's capable of making a team good/great/elite if you put them there. Trust me, I know the Warriors cannot do what they do without him. I know Steph put together some historically great seasons during his MVP years.

If I see Lillard/Steph swap teams, do the tables turn around? Do we see Portland being that much better and the Warriors taking a step back? Its all hypothetical and I don't even want to take anything away from Steph as a player.

See what you said in the first bolded part....and what you said in the second bolded part is the clear disconnect I think you and some others have when it regards how we view Steph as a basketball player.

He’s a significantly better player than Dame. And that’s not a knock on Dame. Dame is a great shooter. But with Steph...he’s THE greatest sbooter in basketball history....who also happens to be insanely skilled at every level on the offensive side...and his 3ball opens all of it up in ways no other player can. We’ve seen shooters like Dame before. We’ve never seen Steph before. That’s part of the “gravity” and the “finishing at the rim”. And that’s before we even eat into the little stuff....like moving without the ball, catch and shoot, range, off the dribble, escape dribbles, screening for others, off the catch etc.

I know it’s hypothetical....but the thought of putting Steph and Dame in the same sentences and bringing up the “swap them out” thing IS a slight to how talented Steph is as a player.

Dame is a poor man’s Steph. Still a great player. But not “that level”.

 

[evansst]

I guess I don't see it as a knock at Steph to say he would be a little different on another team.

I just think there aren't many guys in the NBA that's capable of making a team good/great/elite if you put them there. Trust me, I know the Warriors cannot do what they do without him. I know Steph put together some historically great seasons during his MVP years.

If I see Lillard/Steph swap teams, do the tables turn around? Do we see Portland being that much better and the Warriors taking a step back? Its all hypothetical and I don't even want to take anything away from Steph as a player. Its just hard seeing him during certain games and I really don't notice him much and think that's he's the same caliber player of a Lebron/KD, etc.

At the same time, I see him in other games where he's so good and his performances are too much for another team to handle.

No doubt. IMO Lillard and Steph are no where in the same stratosphere player wise. Jrue Holiday had Dame in jail all playoffs while Steph routinely lights up Jrue. Steph plays consistent defense, Dame dies on screens. Steph leverages his gravity while Dame’s near half court threes come off as a gimmick.

Steph has been the common denominator and consistent answer to why the Warriors are all time. When people provide hypothetical circumstances, rosters and run simulations in their mind based upon biased eyetests I don’t find that all credible, especially when there’s clear evidence against them.

For example, in Dray’s first year, Klay’s second year, and with an injured Steph ankle, the Warriors pushed the Spurs to six in the second round. That same Spurs team the following year damn near swept the Heat.

GSW was a trash franchise, all time bad, once they decided to build around Curry everything changed. Players who were good in GSW are either no longer in the league or not making any impact.

 

[evansst]

Steph cant be your best player if you want to win a championship. Not a knock on him he is a great player top 20-25 at best

Lol I might have to start using the ignore button.

 

[CP1708]

I think it was osh kosh bosh who came up with the perfect comparison for Steph.

He's Shaq.

Sounds bizarre, but in terms of once Shaq stepped on the floor, the entire Defense keyed into him. In the paint. Inside, having to recover out.
Steph is the same, in opposite directions. You literally have to guard him from Half Court, in. Complete game changing spacing. It used to be 25ish feet and in, and Steph creates this 35ish feet and in amount of court you have to cover, and that opens everything up so much for guys like Iggy or Dray who would be limited if they played on other teams with less spacing. Those lanes/wide open looks would be no where close to as open without Steph drawing defenders 35 feet from the basket.

The shooting is only part of it as well, because his ability to pass with either hand from anywhere on the court makes it just as difficult. Ray was a catch and shoot guy who always had his toes inches from the line. Steph obliterates that. Even if you're "on" him, he can dish with either hand to a cutter and create a wide open look even if it's the hockey assist that does it.

 

[dacomeup]

2015 & 2016 Steph are on the level of Bron’s best seasons.

He just choked in the playoffs

Offensively, sure. Peak Miami LeBron with what he was doing on both sides of the ball? Disagree. But that still doesn't mean that if you put Steph on those teams they're just as good or better. Just isn't true.

You switch Dame and Steph and the Warriors are much worse. I don't really even think that's an argument, and that's no slight to Dame.

 

[evansst]

I think it was osh kosh bosh who came up with the perfect comparison for Steph.

He's Shaq.

Sounds bizarre, but in terms of once Shaq stepped on the floor, the entire Defense keyed into him. In the paint. Inside, having to recover out.
Steph is the same, in opposite directions. You literally have to guard him from Half Court, in. Complete game changing spacing. It used to be 25ish feet and in, and Steph creates this 35ish feet and in amount of court you have to cover, and that opens everything up so much for guys like Iggy or Dray who would be limited if they played on other teams with less spacing. Those lanes/wide open looks would be no where close to as open without Steph drawing defenders 35 feet from the basket.

The shooting is only part of it as well, because his ability to pass with either hand from anywhere on the court makes it just as difficult. Ray was a catch and shoot guy who always had his toes inches from the line. Steph obliterates that. Even if you're "on" him, he can dish with either hand to a cutter and create a wide open look even if it's the hockey assist that does it.

Exactly, also Shaq’s gravity lead to easier three pointers, Steph’s leads to layups, higher percentage shots. He’s the inverse, then coupled with KD, it’s basically checkmate for the league.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Steph cant be your best player if you want to win a championship. Not a knock on him he is a great player top 20-25 at best

?? buuuut the warriors..did...win a championship..with steph as the best player?

 

[evansst]

Offensively, sure. Peak Miami LeBron with what he was doing on both sides of the ball? Disagree. But that still doesn't mean that if you put Steph on those teams they're just as good or better. Just isn't true.

You switch Dame and Steph and the Warriors are much worse. I don't really even think that's an argument, and that's no slight to Dame.

Also what also separates them is the interchangeable aspect. Being able to play several styles such as off ball, or Russ have the ball in your hands all the time style, and still put up comprobable numbers, while everyone else game is enhanced, that’s truly making others better.

 

[P C H]

The Shaq comparison with Steph is spot on.

Dude really is a game breaker, man. Was having a conversation with my brother the other day, and I told him that you can debate who's the best player in the league, but there's no one I'd want to start a team with than Steph. Not bron, KD, Harden, nope, Steph. The ultimate game bending teammate who literally makes everyone better because in addition to his insane shooting, scoring, and playmaking ability, he plays WITH his teammates and not above them, much in the vein of Tim Duncan.

He's the ultimate team player. He'll get off the rock, leverage his shooting and gravity in the way of back screening, cutting hard for others, along with being a willing passer out of pick and roll. His assist numbers under Kerr tell you all you need to know about his willingness to leverage his skill, attention, and gravity for the benefit of his team. He's truly unique, and to me there's no one else in the league I'd want build my team around other than curry.

But what some have said in this thread is true. He has the weirdest career arc of any all time great. Someone with a peak so great is going to have a poor resume relative to other all time greats. How his career started and ended as far as accolades are concerned is going to be an eyesore towards where he's placed once he's done.

 

[P C H]

I'm really intrigued by where KD ends up once his career is finished. He really is pound for pound the most talented basketball player I've ever seen. In a way, I'm happy to see him racking up finals MVPs and chips. His resume is finally starting to support his talent. He's mastered basketball in a way that someone his size has never before.

 

[wavycrocket]

The Shaq comparison with Steph is spot on.

Dude really is a game breaker, man. Was having a conversation with my brother the other day, and I told him that you can debate who's the best player in the league, but there's no one I'd want to start a team with than Steph. Not bron, KD, Harden, nope, Steph. The ultimate game bending teammate who literally makes everyone better because in addition to his insane shooting, scoring, and playmaking ability, he plays WITH his teammates and not above them, much in the vein of Tim Duncan.

He's the ultimate team player. He'll get off the rock, leverage his shooting and gravity in the way of back screening, cutting hard for others, along with being a willing passer out of pick and roll. His assist numbers under Kerr tell you all you need to know about his willingness to leverage his skill, attention, and gravity for the benefit of his team. He's truly unique, and to me there's no one else in the league I'd want build my team around other than curry.

But what some have said in this thread is true. He has the weirdest career arc of any all time great. Someone with a peak so great is going to have a poor resume relative to other all time greats. How his career started and ended as far as accolades are concerned is going to be an eyesore towards where he's placed once he's done.

Well said my guy. I call him the “inverse Shaq” or “PG Tim Duncan”

Even when he plays his worst game ever (from a shooting standpoint)....he’s still contributing and doing the lil **** it takes to win. Steph can go 1-10 and you STILL are accounting for his gravity and movement...which opens up everything for his teammates.



Maybe in the Future.....the general nba consensus will family understand WHO Steph is...and what he means to a winning basketball team.

His impact is in rare air on the court.

 

[dland24]

Steph cant be your best player if you want to win a championship.

 

[P C H]

Jordan


Kareem


Bron
Magic
Kobe
Bird
Shaq
Hakeem
Duncan
Kevin Durant

 

[Mister Meaner]

Can't catch a break.

Picture kinda sad tbh. Don't even look like IT.

 

[wavycrocket]

1. Jordan

2. Kareem
3. Magic

4. Duncan
5. Shaq
6. Bron
7. Bird
8. Russell
9. Wilt
10. Kobe

 

[CP1708]

Wavy, you startin to overrated Tim like Spur fans did all those years. You need to work on that.

(And what's with the bump in September? )

 

[wavycrocket]

Wavy, you startin to overrated Tim like Spur fans did all those years. You need to work on that.

(And what's with the bump in September? )

4-10 is interchangeable....but I did watch Tim be the best player on 5 championship teams. Can’t say the same for the others below. And if it wasn’t for a miracle circumstance in the 2013 finals...he’d be undefeated with at least 5 rings in the finals.

 

[User 15002]

Magic too high.

 

[JD617]

I said it in the other thread, but the idea of Jordan having a tier all to himself is nonsense.


On other note, this site has amazingly thorough, detailed writeups on these guys if anyone wants to read them. It gives a statistical perspective and also includes a ton of video work. I already know the order is gonna piss people off for a variety of reasons, but oh well.

http://www.backpicks.com/2017/12/11/the-backpicks-goat-the-40-best-careers-in-nba-history/

 

[CP1708]

4-10 is interchangeable....but I did watch Tim be the best player on 5 championship teams. Can’t say the same for the others below. And if it wasn’t for a miracle circumstance in the 2013 finals...he’d be undefeated with at least 5 rings in the finals.

You did NOT watch him be the best player on 5 Title teams.

Yeah, you're official now.

 

[wavycrocket]

You did NOT watch him be the best player on 5 Title teams.

Yeah, you're official now.

99
03
05
07
14

Where is the lie. We know a fact he was DEFINITELY the best player on his first 3 chips. Now let’s look at the last two. 07 & 14

07:

2014:

 

[HIM]

Bron
Wilt
Kareem
Jordan
Shaq

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Only speaking on players I was able to watch WHILE I was a fully functioning basketball mind.

I saw Bird and Magic but I was a little kid, so I won't count them.

PG
Jason Kidd
GP
Stockton
(CP3 @sea manup )

SG
Jordan
Kobe
Wade

SF
LeBron
KD
Pippen

PF
KG
Malone
Dirk


C
Dream
Shaq
Duncan