NFL Quarterbacks Discussion thread: 2013 Edition

[assyrianplaya]

2nd? you sure about that, zoo keeper?

cause 8th sounds better.

matt cassel took a lambo and turned into an acura...whoop dee ******g doo. we missed the playoffs. scoring (another empty STAT) alone means nothing. the patriots didn't win the division and missed the playoffs...that's as useful as **** on a nun. there's your context, master.

and nice try with, "first place schedule". you skimmed over AFC West, NFC West. where you play all four teams...not just the first place teams.

They scored the second most points in THE AFC. not the nfl, try again.

They played who they played and scored more than anyone not named the chargers in their conference. The defense gave up a little over 2 ppg more in 2008. The lambo became an acrua?

 

[CP1708]

Pretty sure Josh McDaniels was the start of it. Weiss was the OC during the SB runs, but McDaniels became the QB coach and was the play caller after Weiss left.

That's the game I spoke on earlier when I mention Brady throwing like 23 passes in a row on the opening game of the year. (which also was Randy Moss's first game as a Raider if I remember right, 2005?) Yeah, 05, cuz they won the SB in 04, meaning they would have the first Thursday night opening game like Denver/Balt next week.

McDainels is the one that unleashed that no huddle, quick pass, dink and dunk stuff with Troy Brown and Deion Branch, etc.


How much Bill was involved in that, eh. Some surely, but I doubt he devised all that stuff himself, Josh was the QB coach for a year or two while Weiss was there.

 

[assyrianplaya]

Pretty sure Josh McDaniels was the start of it. Weiss was the OC during the SB runs, but McDaniels became the QB coach and was the play caller after Weiss left.

That's the game I spoke on earlier when I mention Brady throwing like 23 passes in a row on the opening game of the year. (which also was Randy Moss's first game as a Raider if I remember right, 2005?) Yeah, 05, cuz they won the SB in 04, meaning they would have the first Thursday night opening game like Denver/Balt next week.

McDainels is the one that unleashed that no huddle, quick pass, dink and dunk stuff with Troy Brown and Deion Branch, etc.


How much Bill was involved in that, eh. Some surely, but I doubt he devised all that stuff himself, Josh was the QB coach for a year or two while Weiss was there.

I agree with you on everything, just saying that that offense stayed Elite and even switched two the two TE with BB there. I think hes become that genius.

 

[DeadsetAce]

looking for where you said second in the AFC...cause you definitely didn't right above in this thread. but i'll give that to you. 2nd in the AFC, so be it. and 8th overall.

versus record breaking and 1st overall the year before.

so yes...lambo into an acura when you factor in who they played. it's so simple to see.

 

[assyrianplaya]

They had a first placeschedule, no matter how easy. Only the chargers scored more points that year in the afc. There is your context.

it was right here, thought it was this thread.

 

[DeadsetAce]

They had a first placeschedule, no matter how easy. Only the chargers scored more points that year in the afc. There is your context.

it was right here, thought it was this thread.

fair enough. but doesn't change my point. not.one.bit.

 

[DeadsetAce]

also...not trying to change subject on this cause this is a good discussion.

but i am interested to see what alex smith can do in KC. will definitely be part of this overall discussion. as in, if he flops in KC...well is he the bum or is cassel not as big a bum as people think he is? that type of deal. but we'll have to wait on that.

and not saying alex smith was king **** in SF...but he was pretty good (in SF, at least) before getting swapped out for kap.

 

[assyrianplaya]

looking for where you said second in the AFC...cause you definitely didn't right above in this thread. but i'll give that to you. 2nd in the AFC, so be it. and 8th overall.

versus record breaking and 1st overall the year before.

so yes...lambo into an acura when you factor in who they played. it's so simple to see.

I'm not saying Brady is Cassel. stop thinking that. I'm saying that he led that offense to 8th in the nfl and 2nd in his conference. (.56 ppg from fourth as well) Brady is the man, But half his career he wasnt near Peyton's level. You need to understand that. Post 2007 on, sure. Career? heck no.

 

[assyrianplaya]

also...not trying to change subject on this cause this is a good discussion.

but i am interested to see what alex smith can do in KC. will definitely be part of this overall discussion. as in, if he flops in KC...well is he the bum or is cassel not as big a bum as people think he is? that type of deal. but we'll have to wait on that.

and not saying alex smith was king **** in SF...but he was pretty good (in SF, at least) before getting swapped out for kap.

Andy makes qb's look good. He got himself one who completes the ball at a high rate and doesn't make mistakes. I think it ll be a success. Alex is nowhere near elite though, not even with Andy.

 

[651akathepaul]

He got himself one who completes the ball at a high rate and doesn't make mistakes.

That's it, right there. I feel good about Smith in KC. They'll be competitive for sure and should make a run at the WC. I think the change of scenery is the best thing that could've happened for Alex.

 

[jpzx]

It's like it never happened. The Bills just cut Matt Leinart. :\

 

[DeadsetAce]

looking for where you said second in the AFC...cause you definitely didn't right above in this thread. but i'll give that to you. 2nd in the AFC, so be it. and 8th overall.

versus record breaking and 1st overall the year before.

so yes...lambo into an acura when you factor in who they played. it's so simple to see.

I'm not saying Brady is Cassel. stop thinking that. I'm saying that he led that offense to 8th in the nfl and 2nd in his conference. (.56 ppg from fourth as well) Brady is the man, But half his career he wasnt near Peyton's level. You need to understand that. Post 2007 on, sure. Career? heck no.

i know you're not. but when you say "peyton's level"...you're referring to straight stats. you're not factoring anything else, like surrounding talent, winning %, etc. it's where CP's essay comes in.

even post spygate...brady has been just as good if not better than manning statistically. once he got weapons to throw to, as manning has always had, he's done everything peyton has done.

like ches said, football is the ultimate team game. these discussions MUST factor in supporting cast. it's what makes what marino did so impressive as well.

 

[DeadsetAce]

It's like it never happened. The Bills just cut Matt Leinart. :\

this is terrible news

 

[assyrianplaya]

i know you're not. but when you say "peyton's level"...you're referring to straight stats. you're not factoring anything else, like surrounding talent, winning %, etc. it's where CP's essay comes in.

even post spygate...brady has been just as good if not better than manning statistically. once he got weapons to throw to, as manning has always had, he's done everything peyton has done.

like ches said, football is the ultimate team game. these discussions MUST factor in supporting cast. it's what makes what marino did so impressive as well.

You equate his jump in play to talent, i think it was more coaching. Moss comes and offense is elite. Gronk comes and they change the offense and its still elite. True tom was there throughout all this, but i don't think they trusted him with the offense on his back till a few years in.


You also don't say how Marvin was average until Peyton... and how many receivers hes made elite.

 

[DeadsetAce]

i know you're not. but when you say "peyton's level"...you're referring to straight stats. you're not factoring anything else, like surrounding talent, winning %, etc. it's where CP's essay comes in.

even post spygate...brady has been just as good if not better than manning statistically. once he got weapons to throw to, as manning has always had, he's done everything peyton has done.

like ches said, football is the ultimate team game. these discussions MUST factor in supporting cast. it's what makes what marino did so impressive as well.

You equate his jump in play to talent, i think it was more coaching. Moss comes and offense is elite. Gronk comes and they change the offense and its still elite. True tom was there throughout all this, but i don't think they trusted him with the offense on his back till a few years in.

i don't think it's talent, though. i mentioned it a few posts above or maybe a page back. raw talent isn't brady game. it's manning's game...and maybe even brees' game (that whole barrel 50 yards down the field post i made). but talent alone doesn't make you the best or one of the best. and it's the other areas of brady's game that have elevated him to where he is, and to a point where we can even have this discussion. i don't think it's the talent that puts him on peyton's level, but it's everything else that makes up whatever gap there is in talent between him and peyton.

 

[assyrianplaya]

i don't think it's talent, though. i mentioned it a few posts above or maybe a page back. raw talent isn't brady game. it's manning's game...and maybe even brees' game (that whole barrel 50 yards down the field post i made). but talent alone doesn't make you the best or one of the best. and it's the other areas of brady's game that have elevated him to where he is, and to a point where we can even have this discussion. i don't think it's the talent that puts him on peyton's level, but it's everything else that makes up whatever gap there is in talent between him and peyton.

I understand where you're coming from now. I just think we both have our favorites and will never agree though if Brady is out there absolutely killing it without gronk ill have to eat my words.

 

[DeadsetAce]

i don't think it's talent, though. i mentioned it a few posts above or maybe a page back. raw talent isn't brady game. it's manning's game...and maybe even brees' game (that whole barrel 50 yards down the field post i made). but talent alone doesn't make you the best or one of the best. and it's the other areas of brady's game that have elevated him to where he is, and to a point where we can even have this discussion. i don't think it's the talent that puts him on peyton's level, but it's everything else that makes up whatever gap there is in talent between him and peyton.

I understand where you're coming from now. I just think we both have our favorites and will never agree though if Brady is out there absolutely killing it without gronk ill have to eat my words.

it'll be an interesting year in NE for the first month or so without gronk. danny amendola and three rookies out there catching passes

 

[CP1708]

Aye, Deuce when you pull thru next time, since you love to take away stuff from Tom Brady on "one miracle play" then that means you're takin away the 1981 SB from Joe Montana cuz of The Catch, right?

Right?


Right?


Because dude threw that ball away and Clark happened to make a great play.

 

[theswagofsweetjones]

This thread is so trash now

 

[dland24]

This thread is so trash now

If only there was an entire season coming up that could spark more current discussions.

 

[deuce king]

Aye, Deuce when you pull thru next time, since you love to take away stuff from Tom Brady on "one miracle play" then that means you're takin away the 1981 SB from Joe Montana cuz of The Catch, right?

Right?


Right?


Because dude threw that ball away and Clark happened to make a great play.

You got it twisted all the way around CP1708.  You said Brady was "one miracle play away form 4 rings", well with that I simply said Brady was one miracle play away from not even making it to the Super Bowl that year.  In a sense, YOU wanted a potential miracle play to be the BENEFIT of Brady's career and I stated how a miracle could have been detrimental to Brady's career.  You gotta learn how to keep it fair and honest across the board champ

.    
 

In regards to Montana to Clark...................that's not/wasn't a miracle champ.  As a quarterback it's called knowing your receivers and having skills.

 

[jayfiend]

Actually that's a good post. And your correct about it all.

And you would think that Peyton played with every probowl WR since 98' the way people talk about the "talent" he had.

Peyton made players better Just like that NE offense. And Peyton also took a lot a pressure of a trash Defense for years.

 

[cedric ceballos]

Peyton made those players better, that can't be denied but lets not act like he hasn't been on stacked teams from the 2003 season until now. Only team he was on that was weak was 2010 and that was because all his options were injured and he stepped up that season to his credit.

He's had a solid o line most those seasons and good receivers and edgerrin James was a solid rb and addai was decent for a stretch also.

 

[assyrianplaya]

Peyton made those players better, that can't be denied but lets not act like he hasn't been on stacked teams from the 2003 season until now. Only team he was on that was weak was 2010 and that was because all his options were injured and he stepped up that season to his credit.

He's had a solid o line most those seasons and good receivers and edgerrin James was a solid rb and addai was decent for a stretch also.

No receiver was solid after they've left. this man made the career of collie, stokley, and clarke. aside from Edge who was a monster, his backs have been eh. Plus you stating he had a good offensive line was a joke... JOKE.

There is nothing stacked about your two best players are on defense being a walking piece of glass and one being ONLY an edge rusher.

 

[CP1708]

Yes, he didn't play almost a decade with Harrison, Wayne, Edge, and Clark.

Come on guys.