NIKE Air Jordan IV OG White Fire Red: Black Friday 2020: Nov. 28th

[bradnsu]

Anyone who still thinks Nike can't recreate exact replicas is out of their mind. That portion of this topic should never be discussed again LOL

The supposed concern for collectors of OGs and the value of OGs has always been a dubious argument, at BEST. It fundamentally misunderstands collectors and why old, original items of any kind are valuable and desirable.

Who are all of these supposed collectors? We know they exist. @MJO23DAN is one we know here. But how many people like Marvin exist in the entire world? And of those collectors, how many of them would tell Nike, NO, absolutely we do not want an exact remake? I suspect none, or very few. It would have zero impact on the value of their collections. The whole thing is a red herring.

I'm making this up, but here's what I think really happened, almost certainly at least in part:

They launched the whole retro thing at a time when it was a niche of a niche. It was a fun thing on the side, not a core business arm. Not many people were self-made experts on this stuff, these shoes, all the little details. The internet was a lot different, social media didn't exist. Getting the retros exact just wasn't a priority.

Only hardcore nerds knew the difference at the time, anyway. And if Nike could manufacture the shoes quicker and cheaper by changing some of the OG details, that's what it did, because only about five people appeared to even notice or care. As time went on, and the culture and information-sharing started to change, they had painted themselves into a corner with their **** quality and half-*** remakes, all in the name of more profit. What were they going to do, SAY that? No way. Maybe that's why you get Tinker spouting this company line, as well. I think you'd have to be pretty damn tight with the guy for him to look at you and say, well the thing is, we cheapened the whole thing to increase margins, and it totally worked, and it still works because the sell-through on the retro product is insane, so why as a business should we invest in making big changes to the shoes? Sometimes, like with the recent XIs, we throw you guys a bone just to keep you on the hook.

No one at Nike will ever say that. But if I had to bet $10K right now on what is really behind all of this, that's where I'm putting my money.

GENTRY HUMP said that clown **** in a sole collector magazine in the early 00’s about why they don’t wanna recreate the retros like the OG because of the OG COLLECTORS...

 

[engineer]

I think these “OG collectors” are mostly Nike executives like gentry himself. It’s really only people in those positions that could amass huge collections of rare original stuff.
Let’s do the math. If you were into collecting DS sneakers back in say 1985 when the aj1 released, you were at least 21. That puts you at 56 today. How many people do you know that are 56 year old sneaker collectors? They absolutely exist but we’re talking rare breed.
And we do have some younger MJO23DAN type folks that collect ogs but probably even less so. Let’s face it, you have to have a true passion for the shoes to spend big money on disintegrated unwearable shoes. It’s not exactly IG friendly.

So I think there’s 2 things that are really at play here.
1. Gentry is protecting his own collection. Literally him and a few of his buddies.
2. The average customer couldn’t care less.

My guess is that they only updated the 11 and 3 because they were embarrassed by that product and they wanted to maintain a high price.

 

[rainking]

GENTRY HUMP said that clown **** in a sole collector magazine in the early 00’s about why they don’t wanna recreate the retros like the OG because of the OG COLLECTORS...

I had that magazine. It's irrelevant at this point. He said a lot of **** in that interview and elsewhere that they've since done a total 180 on, including putting shoes in the vault that they instead have run into the ground, and Nike Air NEVER coming back

He also left JB for several years. Some things got better, some didn't. They certainly didn't start pumping out 1:1 remakes of OGs in his absence. I can't stand that clown whatsoever, but by now it's clear to me that not all of this stuff is only down to him.

 

[bradnsu]

JORDAN BRAND does a lot of stupid **** honestly like you retro every OG color of XI’s with the high cut patent leather expect for the COLUMBIAS ...This year we are getting these garbage CLEAR XI’S I mean I don’t get ....I remember when the XI’S were 1st retro’d in 00’ all the OG colors got retro’d ...

 

[SBA]

I had that magazine. It's irrelevant at this point. He said a lot of **** in that interview and elsewhere that they've since done a total 180 on, including putting shoes in the vault that they instead have run into the ground, and Nike Air NEVER coming back

He also left JB for several years. Some things got better, some didn't. They certainly didn't start pumping out 1:1 remakes of OGs in his absence. I can't stand that clown whatsoever, but by now it's clear to me that not all of this stuff is only down to him.

Yeah I try not to hold something he said that many years ago against him, but to me it's pretty clear there's a trend in terms of what has released over the last year or two, along with what we're seeing rumored over the next several months, compared with what was coming out back in 2015-2018 or so before he came back to JB.

I mean we're in this thread for the Fire Red IVs, but so far nothing has gotten leaked anywhere, and I know many of us (I'm sure I'm not alone) are skeptical of these being actual Fire Red IVs. Like those denim 'Fire Red' 3s that are coming out - first rumored as OGs, but then of course they get the 'twist' treatment. It really does seem like he's still in that mindset somehow. I absolutely hope that isn't the case, but the evidence so far points in that direction.

 

[hitman243]

ready for someone to bust out that leak shot

 

[mr z]

Shoe drops in 3 months and we haven’t even seen the boof pics yet?

 

[ogSlater]

One thing ive wanted to mention as well that nobody ever discusses, what we need to remember is that when we talk ogs is that these shoes were designed years before they were released, there was tons of time for these Nike to get these shoes perfect and each one being a flagship model in its own time or year released. the dogs had so much more time and effort into each one of them before they were released. nowadays we get what up to 10 retro releases a month. I don't see Nike taking nearly as much time and effort into designing and producing patterns with all of these new retros. so this issue we always end up complaining about with every retro is probably just due to the fact Nike is producing so many different pairs of shoes within a year compared to 85 through 99 2's, 3s, 4s, 5s,6s and up we only got a handful of air jordans each year compared to now 50 plus different models per year not even including flagship new model air jordans. when MJ and Tinker spent months and months designing and developing only 1 flagship shoe that only had 4 or 5 colorways its no wonder why we had perfect shape perfect placement of branding and material quality that we haven't seen since. still to this day the flagship or most current Air Jordan shoe always get the most manufacturing attention. look at the 33's or 34's the detail and consistency and quality far surpasses any retro. like Tinker mentioned to me Nike wants to put its main focus on moving forward with current technology, to Nike, retros are a novelty not a priority maybe from a money standpoint though is why we see so many but not from detail or quality. unless it a flagship shoe its always quantity over quality

 

[pwguy]

Back then the stakes on getting these flagships right were definitely much higher. As noted earlier, only where it makes financial sense to do so will Nike/JB work on making significant changes to retros to better match the OGs. No doubt they have the resources to do it any time they want; it's just a matter of priorities.

 

[rainking]

... it's pretty clear there's a trend in terms of what has released over the last year or two, along with what we're seeing rumored over the next several months, compared with what was coming out back in 2015-2018 or so before he came back to JB.

Oh, no doubt. He's definitely had a negative impact again since he returned. That 2015-18 period--and it mildly extends even into this year with the flints, fire red Vs and now these supposed fire red IVs--was unbelievably good in terms of the models and colorways they released in close succession. Now we're mostly back to stupid colorways and twists no one ever wanted

 

[nuclear1990]

Gentry takes the blame but afaik he is not the absolute final word.

Same with Wex on YZY.

 

[maxmaxjordan23]

WOW Still no PICS!!!!! On 7/28 zSneakerHeadz said he would be posting pics in a few days WTF, why are they holding PICs back on these but we have had pics of the Black/Clear 11 for months?

 

[JRepp23]

One thing ive wanted to mention as well that nobody ever discusses, what we need to remember is that when we talk ogs is that these shoes were designed years before they were released, there was tons of time for these Nike to get these shoes perfect and each one being a flagship model in its own time or year released. the dogs had so much more time and effort into each one of them before they were released. nowadays we get what up to 10 retro releases a month. I don't see Nike taking nearly as much time and effort into designing and producing patterns with all of these new retros. so this issue we always end up complaining about with every retro is probably just due to the fact Nike is producing so many different pairs of shoes within a year compared to 85 through 99 2's, 3s, 4s, 5s,6s and up we only got a handful of air jordans each year compared to now 50 plus different models per year not even including flagship new model air jordans. when MJ and Tinker spent months and months designing and developing only 1 flagship shoe that only had 4 or 5 colorways its no wonder why we had perfect shape perfect placement of branding and material quality that we haven't seen since. still to this day the flagship or most current Air Jordan shoe always get the most manufacturing attention. look at the 33's or 34's the detail and consistency and quality far surpasses any retro. like Tinker mentioned to me Nike wants to put its main focus on moving forward with current technology, to Nike, retros are a novelty not a priority maybe from a money standpoint though is why we see so many but not from detail or quality. unless it a flagship shoe its always quantity over quality

With an all new flagship shoe I can completely understand the time it would take to perfect it. But for a 20-30 year old shoe, it should just be simply copied. That should not compare in time it would take to make a totally original design. We all know back then a model was getting worked on a year and a half plus in advance. That was because it was brand new to the world. Retro shoes are not.
Tink says the Flagship gets more of the quality. Then why is it that the retro still is THE most relevant within the brand? Lets be honest here, if the brand relied on the Flagship J and never made a reissue of an older Jordan again, things would be vastly different for them.
The "novelty" J is what keeps this brand going, not the newest Flagship. When are they gonna finally see this?

 

[JRepp23]

Jordan Brand can say ALL day long they look to the future and innovation. But at the end of the day, they rely on the past to keep them above.

 

[KanyIZZY]

I know we've gotten off-topic, but I'll throw in one more on how the evolution works w/ JB. We are looking for subtle improvement throughout the releases, and while the quality of the recent metallic 5's (as mentioned) was good we also are going backwards with the shape. The 2016 were tanks - which is not what the 5 really is supposed to be. Not many people seemed to care, so what do I know.

I was irritated to all hell about this.

 

[kidcurry209]

Na we def started getting the releases we wanted while gentry was out and it’s clear that he’s back with these Chicago White heel mids and other almost colorways that have been coming out

 

[hitman243]

Na we def started getting the releases we wanted while gentry was out and it’s clear that he’s back with these Chicago White heel mids and other almost colorways that have been coming out

that's one pair I don't mind. looks good on feet and I can beat them down with no worries

 

[kingjay718]

I think these “OG collectors” are mostly Nike executives like gentry himself. It’s really only people in those positions that could amass huge collections of rare original stuff.
Let’s do the math. If you were into collecting DS sneakers back in say 1985 when the aj1 released, you were at least 21. That puts you at 56 today. How many people do you know that are 56 year old sneaker collectors? They absolutely exist but we’re talking rare breed.
And we do have some younger MJO23DAN type folks that collect ogs but probably even less so. Let’s face it, you have to have a true passion for the shoes to spend big money on disintegrated unwearable shoes. It’s not exactly IG friendly.

So I think there’s 2 things that are really at play here.
1. Gentry is protecting his own collection. Literally him and a few of his buddies.
2. The average customer couldn’t care less.

Def a combo of both but even if you save your OG Jordans, at some point they will crumble. Now what. GH's logic in regards to that never made sense to me.

Jordan Brand can say ALL day long they look to the future and innovation. But at the end of the day, they rely on the past to keep them above.

By far. Double edged sword because their signature models are really great performers. Melo M3, M9, M10, CP3.VII low key are gems.

 

[mr z]

Gentry takes the blame but afaik he is not the absolute final word.

Same with Wex on YZY.

He’s complicit

 

[3god]

Oh, no doubt. He's definitely had a negative impact again since he returned. That 2015-18 period--and it mildly extends even into this year with the flints, fire red Vs and now these supposed fire red IVs--was unbelievably good in terms of the models and colorways they released in close succession. Now we're mostly back to stupid colorways and twists no one ever wanted

Those “Flint 13s” are a disgrace though.

 

[skip2mylou23]

Lol that's cool.

 

[Mos718]

Saw someone on IG talking about WC 4’s being retro’d again soon? Any truth to this?

 

[souljaman22]

Saw someone on IG talking about WC 4’s being retro’d again soon? Any truth to this?

I haven't worn the 16 pair. Its only been 4 years now so I'd think not but you never know. If they do ill grab another pair. Best 4 ever imo

 

[3god]

Saw someone on IG talking about WC 4’s being retro’d again soon? Any truth to this?

Maybe so they can finally get the design right.

 

[JumpmanATL7]

I haven't worn the 16 pair. Its only been 4 years now so I'd think not but you never know. If they do ill grab another pair. Best 4 ever imo

One of my favorites also. Those and the fire reds and militarys.