No Heel Cushioning Unit in recent Nike shoes? KD's, Hyperfuse, Zoom Go Low? What's the deal...

it's obvious Nike is being cheap. I remember them saying in a press conference that they want to increase profitability in the billions by 2015. So they're trimming any way they know how and as long as consumers purchase their product they will continue to do so.
 
it's obvious Nike is being cheap. I remember them saying in a press conference that they want to increase profitability in the billions by 2015. So they're trimming any way they know how and as long as consumers purchase their product they will continue to do so.
 
it's obvious Nike is being cheap. I remember them saying in a press conference that they want to increase profitability in the billions by 2015. So they're trimming any way they know how and as long as consumers purchase their product they will continue to do so.
 
it's obvious Nike is being cheap. I remember them saying in a press conference that they want to increase profitability in the billions by 2015. So they're trimming any way they know how and as long as consumers purchase their product they will continue to do so.
 
it's obvious Nike is being cheap. I remember them saying in a press conference that they want to increase profitability in the billions by 2015. So they're trimming any way they know how and as long as consumers purchase their product they will continue to do so.
 
Originally Posted by Mugen EP

Originally Posted by DR DAMON

nike is just flat out being cheap and increasing profit margins, which is why i am pretty much done with buying nike basketball and will only stick to shoes with full length zoom to play in, which are becoming more and more scarce. Nike in the last 5 years or so during the recent sneakerhead boom have continued to increase the foam content, and decrease the air content which will decrease durability in the long run, therefore making it much more necessary to purchase another pair of shoes sooner. One example, the zoom flight club was 110 bucks with a large heel only zoom and nothing in the forefoot, and kobes with heel zoom and a forefoot dot under the 1st metatarsal, but the bb2s were 100 bucks for full length zoom. the zoom tennis trainers from not too long ago had heel and forefoot zoom for 85 bucks, what the heck is going on at nike? there have been previous nike basketball shoes with heel and forefoot zoom or normal air units at the 85 to 90 dollar price point air stimulus flight, team huarache, etc. back in the late 80s, and early to mid 90s, if it was a nike shoe and cost 85 bucks, it would have heel and forefoot air, any higher price, might include visible air, air max, or be a jordan or other signature shoe. now more than ever with nike basketball, it seems that they are really really increasing the profit margins.

I know some people dont realize this but there is inflation.

$95.00 in 1980 was equivalent to $251.00 today. So if you want to compare prices from back in the day lets look at a reverse situation. If we are paying $105 today its the equivalent of buying a $40 pair back in 1980.


http://www.usinflationcalculator.comif
i disagree with the inflation excuse.  if the higher prices were due to inflation, the 99 jordan retros would not have been sold for cheaper than the originals.   1989 jordan iv  retail 115.   99 retrros, 100 bucks.  the materials if anything would be cheaper now. the quality of those retros is on par with the originals (yes i had the ogs too) look how electronics game systems and computers are, when they first release, the price is high, then as time goes on, they become cheaper even though there is inflation.   the jordan retro example  was ten years ago, but i would have thought if inflation were a factor, the price would have gone up on the retros 10 years from the original release.  because being a sneakerhead has become mainstream, cdp packs were overinflated with their prices just because they would sell.  now they are charging more because of demand, but we all know quality has been slipping... which equal more profitability.  its business and nike is in the business of making money.  does anyone have proof that it now costs more to make air units than it did previously?   i have been a loyal diehard nike/jordan consumer since 88 and have seen the quality slipping.  an yes dark chocolate, i might buy the ankle injury thing from people playing in air max  or shox shoes, but don't buy it for encapsulated air or zoom.  some of your adidas have some pretty thick midsoles.
 
Originally Posted by Mugen EP

Originally Posted by DR DAMON

nike is just flat out being cheap and increasing profit margins, which is why i am pretty much done with buying nike basketball and will only stick to shoes with full length zoom to play in, which are becoming more and more scarce. Nike in the last 5 years or so during the recent sneakerhead boom have continued to increase the foam content, and decrease the air content which will decrease durability in the long run, therefore making it much more necessary to purchase another pair of shoes sooner. One example, the zoom flight club was 110 bucks with a large heel only zoom and nothing in the forefoot, and kobes with heel zoom and a forefoot dot under the 1st metatarsal, but the bb2s were 100 bucks for full length zoom. the zoom tennis trainers from not too long ago had heel and forefoot zoom for 85 bucks, what the heck is going on at nike? there have been previous nike basketball shoes with heel and forefoot zoom or normal air units at the 85 to 90 dollar price point air stimulus flight, team huarache, etc. back in the late 80s, and early to mid 90s, if it was a nike shoe and cost 85 bucks, it would have heel and forefoot air, any higher price, might include visible air, air max, or be a jordan or other signature shoe. now more than ever with nike basketball, it seems that they are really really increasing the profit margins.

I know some people dont realize this but there is inflation.

$95.00 in 1980 was equivalent to $251.00 today. So if you want to compare prices from back in the day lets look at a reverse situation. If we are paying $105 today its the equivalent of buying a $40 pair back in 1980.


http://www.usinflationcalculator.comif
i disagree with the inflation excuse.  if the higher prices were due to inflation, the 99 jordan retros would not have been sold for cheaper than the originals.   1989 jordan iv  retail 115.   99 retrros, 100 bucks.  the materials if anything would be cheaper now. the quality of those retros is on par with the originals (yes i had the ogs too) look how electronics game systems and computers are, when they first release, the price is high, then as time goes on, they become cheaper even though there is inflation.   the jordan retro example  was ten years ago, but i would have thought if inflation were a factor, the price would have gone up on the retros 10 years from the original release.  because being a sneakerhead has become mainstream, cdp packs were overinflated with their prices just because they would sell.  now they are charging more because of demand, but we all know quality has been slipping... which equal more profitability.  its business and nike is in the business of making money.  does anyone have proof that it now costs more to make air units than it did previously?   i have been a loyal diehard nike/jordan consumer since 88 and have seen the quality slipping.  an yes dark chocolate, i might buy the ankle injury thing from people playing in air max  or shox shoes, but don't buy it for encapsulated air or zoom.  some of your adidas have some pretty thick midsoles.
 
Originally Posted by Mugen EP

I know some people dont realize this but there is inflation.

$95.00 in 1980 was equivalent to $251.00 today. So if you want to compare prices from back in the day lets look at a reverse situation. If we are paying $105 today its the equivalent of buying a $40 pair back in 1980.


http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
But you also have to consider technological advancements, designers and manufacturers gaining more general knowledge over the course of time, and much more. A Dvd player in 1999 may have been $700 dollars. In todays dollars, that is probably around $1,000. Yet we are not getting a lesser quality unit. In fact, we may be getting something better at just $300 dollars. Are you telling me the means of producing a shoe aren't better or more efficient in that the price goes down or stays the same?

(just read Dr Damons last comments... Original air trainers from 1990 were $120. 2000 retros just $90.. So yes inflation has little to do with it. It boils down to what Nike can get away with)

Bottom line, they are going back to the late 80 days where they had a tiered system of shoes. A signature model had everything for a much higher price. And then subsequently, your middle and lower tiered models featuring less and less goodies... Today's consumer is CONTENT with middle tier technology, almost 30 years later. Oh! How we've come so far.

You're pimping products that have the same cushioning setup as a 1990 model?
eek.gif
I'm just not buying any excuses other than the one that makes sense to me. Nike is cheapening up products to get to their bottom line, and people aren't too concerned.." Oh a price break! Let me get this $100 dollar "zoom" shoe" Only to have it last half as long as a zoom shoe from 2005 that retailed for $20 dollars more.

Longevity is at a minimum here. How can I wear 10 year old retros and get more of a cushion than a new model that I barely wore for 3 months. This is pretty much what DR DAMON was saying... btw the tennis trainers were $80. That was the last cross trainer featuring dual air in the midsole. That was in summer 2008. Now for $90 and above, you get what was basically offered as a 1987 Seara  generic middle tiered shoe as the 2010 "SIGNATURE" model. How does that make sense?

The casual "Nike sportswear" shoe trend is killing innovation and performance sneakers in general... It reminds me of an air 180 runner retro vs. OG comparison some guy did awhile back. They cut both open, only to find the retro had no forefoot air bags. After all, it "wasn't made for running". Just casual use.

And Nba players are far from the norm, getting new pairs daily/weekly. The foam breakdown is nearly non existent. Who it does affect, is the average joe balling in $80 dollar shoes who he thinks will last at least a couple months. Just open your eyes and be smart. Sadly, I would estimate less than 5% realize what type of cushioning setup they are getting when they buy shoes. Namely the youth of america.

Nike is earning more and more, and air is becoming less and less..Tell me why that is. Is it a cost issues? Or as NatTurner may put it, does Nike realize that AIR is a fraud? I've worn enough shoes to know that air doesn't HURT a shoe's properties. The positives outweigh the negatives, except on Nike's end with the "cost".

I can look right to a certain set of retros and get my answer.......the vulcanized blazer midsole attached to any old school shoe new creating a new hybrid model. A non air based shoe for an air based price.. Think about it.

---
I can see how some models need certain setups vs. others. Take cross training for example. Your signature air trainer in 1987 had full length encasuplated air. Just a year later for the first Bo Jackson shoe, and into the next 2 models, you had strictly heel based air as the Nike air trainer SC (strength conditioning). That sort of narrow apparent downgrade makes sense. In 1991, Nike introduces the air trainer max, a full length air shoe that had MAXIMUM air. Back then you basically had a parallel increase year after year. Here in 2010, it has been a straight downgrade as a whole. Save the 360 air models and the kobe V, you are left with very little choice.. If one was to do an analysis of full length air shoes in production vs. non full length, you would likely the find the 2010 ratio to be at its lowest point ever in Nike history. Yet profits are on the rise. Think about it. If there are 100 models in production and only 10 feature full length air, you have your 10% mark. Back just a few years ago, Nike would have had almost double or triple that number.

The smoking gun are the kenlu dissection photos. "Those shoes had THAT in them?" Why yes they did. and then you quickly realize what we have today
 
Originally Posted by Mugen EP

I know some people dont realize this but there is inflation.

$95.00 in 1980 was equivalent to $251.00 today. So if you want to compare prices from back in the day lets look at a reverse situation. If we are paying $105 today its the equivalent of buying a $40 pair back in 1980.


http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
But you also have to consider technological advancements, designers and manufacturers gaining more general knowledge over the course of time, and much more. A Dvd player in 1999 may have been $700 dollars. In todays dollars, that is probably around $1,000. Yet we are not getting a lesser quality unit. In fact, we may be getting something better at just $300 dollars. Are you telling me the means of producing a shoe aren't better or more efficient in that the price goes down or stays the same?

(just read Dr Damons last comments... Original air trainers from 1990 were $120. 2000 retros just $90.. So yes inflation has little to do with it. It boils down to what Nike can get away with)

Bottom line, they are going back to the late 80 days where they had a tiered system of shoes. A signature model had everything for a much higher price. And then subsequently, your middle and lower tiered models featuring less and less goodies... Today's consumer is CONTENT with middle tier technology, almost 30 years later. Oh! How we've come so far.

You're pimping products that have the same cushioning setup as a 1990 model?
eek.gif
I'm just not buying any excuses other than the one that makes sense to me. Nike is cheapening up products to get to their bottom line, and people aren't too concerned.." Oh a price break! Let me get this $100 dollar "zoom" shoe" Only to have it last half as long as a zoom shoe from 2005 that retailed for $20 dollars more.

Longevity is at a minimum here. How can I wear 10 year old retros and get more of a cushion than a new model that I barely wore for 3 months. This is pretty much what DR DAMON was saying... btw the tennis trainers were $80. That was the last cross trainer featuring dual air in the midsole. That was in summer 2008. Now for $90 and above, you get what was basically offered as a 1987 Seara  generic middle tiered shoe as the 2010 "SIGNATURE" model. How does that make sense?

The casual "Nike sportswear" shoe trend is killing innovation and performance sneakers in general... It reminds me of an air 180 runner retro vs. OG comparison some guy did awhile back. They cut both open, only to find the retro had no forefoot air bags. After all, it "wasn't made for running". Just casual use.

And Nba players are far from the norm, getting new pairs daily/weekly. The foam breakdown is nearly non existent. Who it does affect, is the average joe balling in $80 dollar shoes who he thinks will last at least a couple months. Just open your eyes and be smart. Sadly, I would estimate less than 5% realize what type of cushioning setup they are getting when they buy shoes. Namely the youth of america.

Nike is earning more and more, and air is becoming less and less..Tell me why that is. Is it a cost issues? Or as NatTurner may put it, does Nike realize that AIR is a fraud? I've worn enough shoes to know that air doesn't HURT a shoe's properties. The positives outweigh the negatives, except on Nike's end with the "cost".

I can look right to a certain set of retros and get my answer.......the vulcanized blazer midsole attached to any old school shoe new creating a new hybrid model. A non air based shoe for an air based price.. Think about it.

---
I can see how some models need certain setups vs. others. Take cross training for example. Your signature air trainer in 1987 had full length encasuplated air. Just a year later for the first Bo Jackson shoe, and into the next 2 models, you had strictly heel based air as the Nike air trainer SC (strength conditioning). That sort of narrow apparent downgrade makes sense. In 1991, Nike introduces the air trainer max, a full length air shoe that had MAXIMUM air. Back then you basically had a parallel increase year after year. Here in 2010, it has been a straight downgrade as a whole. Save the 360 air models and the kobe V, you are left with very little choice.. If one was to do an analysis of full length air shoes in production vs. non full length, you would likely the find the 2010 ratio to be at its lowest point ever in Nike history. Yet profits are on the rise. Think about it. If there are 100 models in production and only 10 feature full length air, you have your 10% mark. Back just a few years ago, Nike would have had almost double or triple that number.

The smoking gun are the kenlu dissection photos. "Those shoes had THAT in them?" Why yes they did. and then you quickly realize what we have today
 
great post WallyHoop. the majority of nike consumers doesn't care about performance, just looks.    another example of nike cheapening their models is the jumpman pro. the originals had full length zoom. the retros also had full length zoom. the re-retros had forefoot zoom, and dhip or something like that in the heel. my 2006 zoom haywards had full length zoom and a pricepoint of 80 bucks. yes only 80 bucks for full length zoom the following year, the next hayward had heel only zoom. (the actually next evolution of the hayward was considered they skylon)  a more recent example is of the zoom bb1 low.  this is a shoe that was advertised to have full length zoom like the mids.   the white nash lows had heel only zoom, the grey toe nashes have full length zoom, but they were sold at the same pricepoint.  the zoom bb3s were advertised to have full length zoom, and why wouldn't they?  the bb1 and 2 mids both had full length zoom and the tooling is the same, but ah snap, someone dissected them on kenlu and low and behold a heel zoom unit and a forefoot little dot.  holy false advertising batman. i didn't pick up on it with my initial pair that i ordered from the outlet because the sizing was so off and just tried them on the carpet. why the changes? increase the profit margins. if any nike employees would like to chime in on this subject, please feel free, i would love to hear the reason for the switcheroos.  by the way, i love brasil gear . i have different nikes in brasil colorways and several tshirts and ronaldo jerseys. i was going to buy the brasil hyperfuse, until i found out that they only had forefoot air, and then it was an easy pass for me. won't fall into the hype. for basketball give me full length zoom, or heel and real forefoot zoom not the tiny little dot, or its an easy pass. i think full length zoom is going to harder and harder to come by in the next few years. some may argue that you don't need cushioning under the arch, etc, but if you play in a shoe with full length zoom, and then play in a shoe with heel and forefoot zoom, they DO NOT feel the same. the full length zoom changes the cushioning feel. but i digress and need to go to bed.  still have yet to play in my bb3s, will probably do a full length zoom transplant like the dude in the sneaker review did for his bb1 lows.
 
great post WallyHoop. the majority of nike consumers doesn't care about performance, just looks.    another example of nike cheapening their models is the jumpman pro. the originals had full length zoom. the retros also had full length zoom. the re-retros had forefoot zoom, and dhip or something like that in the heel. my 2006 zoom haywards had full length zoom and a pricepoint of 80 bucks. yes only 80 bucks for full length zoom the following year, the next hayward had heel only zoom. (the actually next evolution of the hayward was considered they skylon)  a more recent example is of the zoom bb1 low.  this is a shoe that was advertised to have full length zoom like the mids.   the white nash lows had heel only zoom, the grey toe nashes have full length zoom, but they were sold at the same pricepoint.  the zoom bb3s were advertised to have full length zoom, and why wouldn't they?  the bb1 and 2 mids both had full length zoom and the tooling is the same, but ah snap, someone dissected them on kenlu and low and behold a heel zoom unit and a forefoot little dot.  holy false advertising batman. i didn't pick up on it with my initial pair that i ordered from the outlet because the sizing was so off and just tried them on the carpet. why the changes? increase the profit margins. if any nike employees would like to chime in on this subject, please feel free, i would love to hear the reason for the switcheroos.  by the way, i love brasil gear . i have different nikes in brasil colorways and several tshirts and ronaldo jerseys. i was going to buy the brasil hyperfuse, until i found out that they only had forefoot air, and then it was an easy pass for me. won't fall into the hype. for basketball give me full length zoom, or heel and real forefoot zoom not the tiny little dot, or its an easy pass. i think full length zoom is going to harder and harder to come by in the next few years. some may argue that you don't need cushioning under the arch, etc, but if you play in a shoe with full length zoom, and then play in a shoe with heel and forefoot zoom, they DO NOT feel the same. the full length zoom changes the cushioning feel. but i digress and need to go to bed.  still have yet to play in my bb3s, will probably do a full length zoom transplant like the dude in the sneaker review did for his bb1 lows.
 
WallyHopp,

Could be bounce back, or it could be something as simple as an imbalance if an air cell loses pressure, not allowing the foot to remain neutral during heel toe transition. The foot remaining neutral is key, as it then can withstand maximal overload, lessening the risk of injury.

Then we also have to take into account if the shoe was meant for the wearer. As stated, many buy hoops shoes on looks alone. I personally had to find out the hard way that I cannot wear shoes that feature zoom air, full length or otherwise. I know for a fact that I am not the only one who has had issues with that setup. So for some to suggest that zoom air is some sort of answer, is quite comical. This especially while the main man for Nike Basketball is now having issues playing in that system.

Nike should to concentrate on making a good shoe without gimmicks, which is what Air, both zoom and max, actually is. People here are screaming that Nike is "cheap", with no tech, tech, tech, which has put Nike in a corner.

Who ever said that you need "tech" in order to make both high quality, then safe and functional footwear, on a consistent basis?

It seems that everyone else can do it, then why can't Nike?
 
WallyHopp,

Could be bounce back, or it could be something as simple as an imbalance if an air cell loses pressure, not allowing the foot to remain neutral during heel toe transition. The foot remaining neutral is key, as it then can withstand maximal overload, lessening the risk of injury.

Then we also have to take into account if the shoe was meant for the wearer. As stated, many buy hoops shoes on looks alone. I personally had to find out the hard way that I cannot wear shoes that feature zoom air, full length or otherwise. I know for a fact that I am not the only one who has had issues with that setup. So for some to suggest that zoom air is some sort of answer, is quite comical. This especially while the main man for Nike Basketball is now having issues playing in that system.

Nike should to concentrate on making a good shoe without gimmicks, which is what Air, both zoom and max, actually is. People here are screaming that Nike is "cheap", with no tech, tech, tech, which has put Nike in a corner.

Who ever said that you need "tech" in order to make both high quality, then safe and functional footwear, on a consistent basis?

It seems that everyone else can do it, then why can't Nike?
 
wallyhopp and dr damon speak truth!!




NIKE'S RECENT VIEW:




PROFIT > PERFORMANCE.





I DO NOT SUPPORT!
  
nat turner - things other than air are still 'tech'. adiprene, gels, higher density foams, even perofmance insoles are tech. i think we r wondering why there is no additional element, not necessarily air, in the heel for extra cushion. it could even be a cartridge of polyurethane... but for MOST ppl on niketalk, we don't feel air is a gimmick. we feel it does have benefits in cushioning and longevity... your study may be right but its off topic. maybe air shoes are more unstable but we know thats not why nike didnt include it in these shoes or they wouldnt still use it in lebrons and kobes or all the other shoes..
 
wallyhopp and dr damon speak truth!!




NIKE'S RECENT VIEW:




PROFIT > PERFORMANCE.





I DO NOT SUPPORT!
  
nat turner - things other than air are still 'tech'. adiprene, gels, higher density foams, even perofmance insoles are tech. i think we r wondering why there is no additional element, not necessarily air, in the heel for extra cushion. it could even be a cartridge of polyurethane... but for MOST ppl on niketalk, we don't feel air is a gimmick. we feel it does have benefits in cushioning and longevity... your study may be right but its off topic. maybe air shoes are more unstable but we know thats not why nike didnt include it in these shoes or they wouldnt still use it in lebrons and kobes or all the other shoes..
 
Awesome posts, as usual, Wally.

That video re: Anniversary XI's is embarrassing. Shame on Nike/JB continuing to provide us with inferior quality.

Glad I've been saving my money lately.
 
Awesome posts, as usual, Wally.

That video re: Anniversary XI's is embarrassing. Shame on Nike/JB continuing to provide us with inferior quality.

Glad I've been saving my money lately.
 
Originally Posted by joejoebob2099

nat turner - things other than air are still 'tech'. adiprene, gels, higher density foams, even perofmance insoles are tech. i think we r wondering why there is no additional element, not necessarily air, in the heel for extra cushion. it could even be a cartridge of polyurethane... but for MOST ppl on niketalk, we don't feel air is a gimmick. we feel it does have benefits in cushioning and longevity... your study may be right but its off topic. maybe air shoes are more unstable but we know thats not why nike didnt include it in these shoes or they wouldnt still use it in lebrons and kobes or all the other shoes..
You may not feel it is a gimmick, but it has never been proven to provide protection better than what was already being used. Also, the study IS on topic, then suggests why Nike may have lost faith in their own product, knowing that it may lead to injury, thus not using it so much in their shoes anymore.

Edit:

This "tech" thing, is simply a bunch of hype to make it seem as if you are buying something special. I know of a few important figures in the footwear industry that hate the term "tech", especially when it is used to decribe the cushioning setup in sneakers. Alden Shoes does not call their foot balance system "tech", Allen Edmonds doesn't call what they do "tech" either. "Tech" in sneakers is just a juvenile term suggeested by Nike, to hint that their product is actually doing something special for you, in which we all know that it isn't. In fact most of what they've produced has failed to do what it is claimed to do.

Monkey Paw? Failed.

Tuned Air? Failed.

Zoom Max, especially in LeBrons shoes? Failed.

Foamposite as a viable performance option? Failed.

Now studies showing how Air cells contribute to injury...I smell a big fail coming on that one.

Tech? Just make a high quality shoe, one using organic materials then detailed stitching with a sound foundation, durablility, and no gimmicks.

Nike seems to not to be able to do that.  I mean, just look at what kind of Jordans retro's NIKE is producing, thus  the vid I posted.

    
 
Originally Posted by joejoebob2099

nat turner - things other than air are still 'tech'. adiprene, gels, higher density foams, even perofmance insoles are tech. i think we r wondering why there is no additional element, not necessarily air, in the heel for extra cushion. it could even be a cartridge of polyurethane... but for MOST ppl on niketalk, we don't feel air is a gimmick. we feel it does have benefits in cushioning and longevity... your study may be right but its off topic. maybe air shoes are more unstable but we know thats not why nike didnt include it in these shoes or they wouldnt still use it in lebrons and kobes or all the other shoes..
You may not feel it is a gimmick, but it has never been proven to provide protection better than what was already being used. Also, the study IS on topic, then suggests why Nike may have lost faith in their own product, knowing that it may lead to injury, thus not using it so much in their shoes anymore.

Edit:

This "tech" thing, is simply a bunch of hype to make it seem as if you are buying something special. I know of a few important figures in the footwear industry that hate the term "tech", especially when it is used to decribe the cushioning setup in sneakers. Alden Shoes does not call their foot balance system "tech", Allen Edmonds doesn't call what they do "tech" either. "Tech" in sneakers is just a juvenile term suggeested by Nike, to hint that their product is actually doing something special for you, in which we all know that it isn't. In fact most of what they've produced has failed to do what it is claimed to do.

Monkey Paw? Failed.

Tuned Air? Failed.

Zoom Max, especially in LeBrons shoes? Failed.

Foamposite as a viable performance option? Failed.

Now studies showing how Air cells contribute to injury...I smell a big fail coming on that one.

Tech? Just make a high quality shoe, one using organic materials then detailed stitching with a sound foundation, durablility, and no gimmicks.

Nike seems to not to be able to do that.  I mean, just look at what kind of Jordans retro's NIKE is producing, thus  the vid I posted.

    
 
Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Originally Posted by joejoebob2099

nat turner - things other than air are still 'tech'. adiprene, gels, higher density foams, even perofmance insoles are tech. i think we r wondering why there is no additional element, not necessarily air, in the heel for extra cushion. it could even be a cartridge of polyurethane... but for MOST ppl on niketalk, we don't feel air is a gimmick. we feel it does have benefits in cushioning and longevity... your study may be right but its off topic. maybe air shoes are more unstable but we know thats not why nike didnt include it in these shoes or they wouldnt still use it in lebrons and kobes or all the other shoes..
You may not feel it is a gimmick, but it has never been proven to provide protection better than what was already being used. Also, the study IS on topic, then suggests why Nike may have lost faith in their own product, knowing that it may lead to injury, thus not using it so much in their shoes anymore.

  
i dont care if it hasnt been proven in a study. my feet experience less jarring pain in shoes with air vs plain foam shoes. thats enough proof for myself. everyone is different. 
the topic is why nike is not using heel cushioning on shoes. there is no way in hell nike is not using heel cushioning in these shoes cause they think it causes injury. majority of their shoes still use air (recent shoes - hyperdunk 2010, lebron 7, lebron 7 ps, lebron 8, kobe 5, air max hyperize, air max hyperdunk 2010, zoom soldier 4, lebron 7 low, air max hyped, air max wavy,  jordan 2010, jordan alpha 1, melo 6, jordan airs, jordan flight team, jordan flight schoo... ALL USE AIR IN THE HEEL), we're talking about the few that don't. 

the possibility of air increasing chance for ankle injury is valid, i don't deny that, but it for sure as hell isnt the reason nike isn't using it in just the KD's, hyperfuse, and zoom go.

this is my last response to you, bc i know discussions with you usually go nowhere
 
Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Originally Posted by joejoebob2099

nat turner - things other than air are still 'tech'. adiprene, gels, higher density foams, even perofmance insoles are tech. i think we r wondering why there is no additional element, not necessarily air, in the heel for extra cushion. it could even be a cartridge of polyurethane... but for MOST ppl on niketalk, we don't feel air is a gimmick. we feel it does have benefits in cushioning and longevity... your study may be right but its off topic. maybe air shoes are more unstable but we know thats not why nike didnt include it in these shoes or they wouldnt still use it in lebrons and kobes or all the other shoes..
You may not feel it is a gimmick, but it has never been proven to provide protection better than what was already being used. Also, the study IS on topic, then suggests why Nike may have lost faith in their own product, knowing that it may lead to injury, thus not using it so much in their shoes anymore.

  
i dont care if it hasnt been proven in a study. my feet experience less jarring pain in shoes with air vs plain foam shoes. thats enough proof for myself. everyone is different. 
the topic is why nike is not using heel cushioning on shoes. there is no way in hell nike is not using heel cushioning in these shoes cause they think it causes injury. majority of their shoes still use air (recent shoes - hyperdunk 2010, lebron 7, lebron 7 ps, lebron 8, kobe 5, air max hyperize, air max hyperdunk 2010, zoom soldier 4, lebron 7 low, air max hyped, air max wavy,  jordan 2010, jordan alpha 1, melo 6, jordan airs, jordan flight team, jordan flight schoo... ALL USE AIR IN THE HEEL), we're talking about the few that don't. 

the possibility of air increasing chance for ankle injury is valid, i don't deny that, but it for sure as hell isnt the reason nike isn't using it in just the KD's, hyperfuse, and zoom go.

this is my last response to you, bc i know discussions with you usually go nowhere
 
Originally Posted by joejoebob2099

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Originally Posted by joejoebob2099

nat turner - things other than air are still 'tech'. adiprene, gels, higher density foams, even perofmance insoles are tech. i think we r wondering why there is no additional element, not necessarily air, in the heel for extra cushion. it could even be a cartridge of polyurethane... but for MOST ppl on niketalk, we don't feel air is a gimmick. we feel it does have benefits in cushioning and longevity... your study may be right but its off topic. maybe air shoes are more unstable but we know thats not why nike didnt include it in these shoes or they wouldnt still use it in lebrons and kobes or all the other shoes..
You may not feel it is a gimmick, but it has never been proven to provide protection better than what was already being used. Also, the study IS on topic, then suggests why Nike may have lost faith in their own product, knowing that it may lead to injury, thus not using it so much in their shoes anymore.

  
i dont care if it hasnt been proven in a study. my feet experience less jarring pain in shoes with air vs plain foam shoes. thats enough proof for myself. everyone is different. 
the topic is why nike is not using heel cushioning on shoes. there is no way in hell nike is not using heel cushioning in these shoes cause they think it causes injury. majority of their shoes still use air (recent shoes - hyperdunk 2010, lebron 7, lebron 7 ps, lebron 8, kobe 5, air max hyperize, air max hyperdunk 2010, zoom soldier 4, lebron 7 low, air max hyped, air max wavy,  jordan 2010, jordan alpha 1, melo 6, jordan airs, jordan flight team, jordan flight schoo... ALL USE AIR IN THE HEEL), we're talking about the few that don't. 

the possibility of air increasing chance for ankle injury is valid, i don't deny that, but it for sure as hell isnt the reason nike isn't using it in just the KD's, hyperfuse, and zoom go.

this is my last response to you, bc i know discussions with you usually go nowhere

Your first point is valid, but you were not born with shoes that feature Nike Air on your feet.

Secondly, you had to try and insult me, right? All you are really saying is that you are not qualifed to have a logical and well informed discussion on this topic, one based upon facts like I have presented. So perhaps you are right, for me to participate in discussion with you would be an exercise in futility.

Does anyone know what Nike did with all of those Monkey Paws?

  
 
Originally Posted by joejoebob2099

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Originally Posted by joejoebob2099

nat turner - things other than air are still 'tech'. adiprene, gels, higher density foams, even perofmance insoles are tech. i think we r wondering why there is no additional element, not necessarily air, in the heel for extra cushion. it could even be a cartridge of polyurethane... but for MOST ppl on niketalk, we don't feel air is a gimmick. we feel it does have benefits in cushioning and longevity... your study may be right but its off topic. maybe air shoes are more unstable but we know thats not why nike didnt include it in these shoes or they wouldnt still use it in lebrons and kobes or all the other shoes..
You may not feel it is a gimmick, but it has never been proven to provide protection better than what was already being used. Also, the study IS on topic, then suggests why Nike may have lost faith in their own product, knowing that it may lead to injury, thus not using it so much in their shoes anymore.

  
i dont care if it hasnt been proven in a study. my feet experience less jarring pain in shoes with air vs plain foam shoes. thats enough proof for myself. everyone is different. 
the topic is why nike is not using heel cushioning on shoes. there is no way in hell nike is not using heel cushioning in these shoes cause they think it causes injury. majority of their shoes still use air (recent shoes - hyperdunk 2010, lebron 7, lebron 7 ps, lebron 8, kobe 5, air max hyperize, air max hyperdunk 2010, zoom soldier 4, lebron 7 low, air max hyped, air max wavy,  jordan 2010, jordan alpha 1, melo 6, jordan airs, jordan flight team, jordan flight schoo... ALL USE AIR IN THE HEEL), we're talking about the few that don't. 

the possibility of air increasing chance for ankle injury is valid, i don't deny that, but it for sure as hell isnt the reason nike isn't using it in just the KD's, hyperfuse, and zoom go.

this is my last response to you, bc i know discussions with you usually go nowhere

Your first point is valid, but you were not born with shoes that feature Nike Air on your feet.

Secondly, you had to try and insult me, right? All you are really saying is that you are not qualifed to have a logical and well informed discussion on this topic, one based upon facts like I have presented. So perhaps you are right, for me to participate in discussion with you would be an exercise in futility.

Does anyone know what Nike did with all of those Monkey Paws?

  
 
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