NT Poker Players, no limit hold em poker at the casino story and question vol. another bad beats

sickickz23

sickickz23

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Sep 7, 2005
(Long story, summary below)I just got back from the boat from playing 1-2, hundred max. I had $167 exactly left, I was small blind. Big Blind had rougly350, button had roughly 260-270 in chips. Dealer passes the cards and two people call the blind, and the lady on the button calls. Looked at my hand (K9 suiteddiamonds), I called. Big Blind calls. We see a flop. Ace of hearts, King of clubs, 9 of clubs. First to act, I betted 10 dollars. Everyone folded but thebutton called. Turn was an 8 of spades. I betted 15 dollars. Button called my 15 and re-raised to 50. Took me about 3 minutes to make a decision, and I wasthinking she didn't have the ace, and she must have been chasing a flush or straight. I looked at my chips and I had exactly $140 left in chips. While Iwas thinking, the lady was talking to the dealer and the other players saying something about that she a pharmacist. What would you do?























































I, called the 50 and pushed all-in. 90 more. Lady didn't even hesitate to call, and the river........jack of spades. She got the straight. Her cards wereQueen 10 off suit. I was so
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and she was screaming and yelling thank youto the dealer and repeatedly kept saying out loud"Thank You Jesus."

So my question to all you poker players, is that WOULD YOU CALL 90 FOR A RIVER CARD GUTSHOT STRAIGHT DRAW? And did I play it right? Would you have played itdifferently and what would you have done? I'm so heated that I need some cooling off and reading comments here would help Thanks.


Summary: I had K9 suited diamonds, and was small blind, lady on the button, Button and 2 other players call blinds, BB checks flop comes Ah Kc 9c. I bet 10button calls. Turn card, 8s, betted 15, she called my bet and re-raised to 50. I went all-in for 90 more she called, river was a jack of spades and she got thestraight(her cards were Q-10 off suit. Read the questions above. Thanks.
 
My thoughts as an amateur poker player:

1. You flopped two pair. That's great. I would give the caller, at best, an ace, so from my assumption, you had her beat.

2. The raise would have scared the $!$# out of me. I guess I would have put her on some kind of draw or a monster hand because you seemed to indicate that shewas relaxed and comfortable (talking to other players).

3. You re-raised her but due to your limited stack, the re-raise was only an extra 50 out of the 65 she put in on that turn. It would make sense to call, inmy opinion. Had you had more chips, your re-raise would have been bigger and you could have probably scared her off. The only problem is that it seemed to melike you were playing a n00b ("thank you, jesus!") and would have probably called anything you threw at her. She lucked out at the end.

To answer your question, if I was her, I would not have raise on the turn. I don't want to throw money in a pot where I have a draw at best, especially atgutshot. Bad move on her part but it paid off.
 
I've been playing a while and worked as a dealer for a while in some NYC clubs (best position to learn about the game IMO as a dealer), once you see twoplayers call and the button call and you have a semi-decent hand you should have just bumped it up (1-2 cash game make it 6 bucks to play). Since everyonejust called and the BB checked anyone can have any range of hands w/o any pre-flop raises. Once you flopped your two pair, you made the correct move to raisebut you raised too little. Ace, King, 9 with two suited cards is a dangerous flop and you betting only 10 dollars into a 10 dollar pot with 2 pair is not agood move (25-30). Anyone with a small ace, KQ, KJ even K10 will call and you'd rather win a small pot than lose a big one. You let her in 3 to 1 potodds for a 4 outer with her big stack and your small stack. IMO her thinking is that you have a small ace and you would've folded if you didn't hitsomething substantial on the turn. Is she betting/playing like a moron, no question yes, but I think you should have bet a little more aggresively (sp). Iwanted to type more but I'm at work so I typed the response between work and I forgot.
 
i'm always suspicious of 2 pairs and playing newbs. 2 pairs only beat 1 pair. newbs can never be pushed out.
 
^^truth and since you were first to bet i would have raised more substantially when you flopped the 2 pair and after the turn because you need to put thepressure on her to call but instead you had the best hand at the time and the pressure was on you to call because she used a position raise to her advantadge
 
complaining about 167$??!


yea unlucky stuff happens.


i had AA and dude had QQ. i went all in preflop he calls.
Mine you, this is for 200$

Flop 10 K 3
Turn J
River A


bye bye 200$
 
she's a donk and a noob, it's pretty obvious she was drawing (i figured flush or OESD)

good play, bad result


move on to the next hand


edit: not sure why people are afraid when they get re-raised....

anyway, she limped on the button, 9 times out of 10, you can eliminate alot of her holdings and pin it down to a marginal hand

she probably thought you were weak with that weak turn bet (you shold of bet around 30-40) and thought she could get you off with a big raise, since you raisePF and can't be too strong
 
You played like how I would have played it.

Only raise a little more with two pair. But there's nothing you can do with people trying to catch; she was an idiot to raise that much.
 
Her raising was the only bad play besides the small bet. A cold call would have made sense if you put her on a draw but it would have crippled you if youdidn't reraise all in with the way the other chip stacks were looking at the point.

I love poker.
 
I always tell people "If Hold'em didnt have a river, I'd be rich.."

Sounds like you played your hand well, just a bad beat. Remember, its a card game, no matter how much "skill" is required, luck is still a factor. Ican't lie, depending on my stack and previous hands, I'm known to be a chaser
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i had AA and dude had QQ. i went all in preflop he calls.
Mine you, this is for 200$

Flop 10 K 3
Turn J
River A


bye bye 200$
200 isn't that far away from 167, when your straight flush gets beaten by a royal flush and another person has runner runner quads at a 5/10no limit table now that's a horrific story to hear. The face of the guy who caught runner runner quads was priceless. One guys holds AK of clubs, buttonhas 9-8 of clubs, big blind has pocket Jacks. Everyone folds to 9-8 guy who raises to $100 (tried to steal I figure), JJ re-raises to $250 and both call. Flop comes out Q J 10 all clubs. JJ checks, AK bets $300 in to the $755 pot. 9-8 has about $1500 left so he goes all in. JJ has about $2200 he calls in asecond, AK has both of them covered and calls. Since it is a cash game they don't have to open their hands, turn is a blank and the river is a J. JJflips his cards over completely estatic and starts the fist pump, 9-8 and AK open their hands at the same time. I was stunned. JJ took it the hardest, hewent to the smoking room and stayed there for at least 30 mins. 9-8 guys brushed it off and went to play 10/20 PL Omaha. AK left about 15 minutes afterwards. Great story, my friends don't let me deal at home games because of this.
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Similar situation with the two pair. BTW My store gets worse.
Playing at Bellagio's $2-$3 and I was wiped clean of my 2 hundred stack by this real obnoxious kid. I had two pair, tens and jacks, off the flop. He turnsa river after I went all in at the turn. Not a big deal.
He had a open-ended and for the amount of money I would have called, too. But, he was a loudmouth and that just irked me.
I buy in for 3 bills. And get pocket queens. I raise to $15, 4 callers, including the jerk face. I flop a queen, and raise to $80 (pot size raise). Everyonefolds except jerk face who goes all in.
I say, "hurray" and show my trip ladies. Guy turns over pocket 7s. Turn is a 7, river is a 7. Worse part is the dude said "I knew it!" whenhe made quads. You mean to tell me you would quad 7s off this hand? I left very unhappy that night.
 
old people never raise or call unless thy have something huge...a buddy of mine whos a absolute BEAST at the felt told me that and ive stuck with thatbelief....its saved my butt many a time
 
should've made it more expensive after the flop, I know you're trying to keep people in with your two pair, but you make it $15-20 after the flop shehas a different opinion of you hand, then push after the turn ... I hate floppin two pair when I have two somewhat connected cards ...


anyways you played it right for trying to milk someone with an ace, just an unlucky river ... I just try to get people out when I have two pair, because reallyit isn't that strong of a hand, she could've had a set and you would've been toasted anyways ...


don't feel bad I played horrible at Commerce last night, was up to $220 when I started with $40 (40 n/l $1-2 blinds) and just was making bad read after badread ...
 
It's just a shame that you were the small blind. Assuming you were under the gun or in early position, that's a throw away hand and you won't begetting yourself in these types of situations. Oh well.. you didn't really misplay it or anything, just bad luck.
 
Thanks for the responses. However, if I betted say, 20 dollars, perhaps everyone including the button would've folded and everyone at the table wouldassume that I would have an ace with a decent kicker or big slick.

If I flop two pair, I would want to make money, instead of just trying the buy the pot correct? Because my hand is strong, I can gamble that I can make somemoney without risk of losing a big pot. That's what I was thinking at least at the time.
 
Originally Posted by sickickz23

Thanks for the responses. However, if I betted say, 20 dollars, perhaps everyone including the button would've folded and everyone at the table would assume that I would have an ace with a decent kicker or big slick.

If I flop two pair, I would want to make money, instead of just trying the buy the pot correct? Because my hand is strong, I can gamble that I can make some money without risk of losing a big pot. That's what I was thinking at least at the time.
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The problem is bottom two pair is not a strong hand. If the board pairs, pretty much you are screwed so there are many more outs for players than you wouldthink. I guess ultimately the call preflop on an unraised pot in the small blind position was inevitable, k9 is a pretty crappy hand. When you hit the bottomtwo pair you have to raise it up immediately to get as many of the 5 players out because an Ace is going to call no matter what and you aren't much aheadof someone who is suited or Ace suited would be even worse. The pot size bet here is what most would say would be a good bet, but I might just throw in 15since it was an unraised pot to begin with. The turn should have been much higher. What most likely happened was that the woman tried to 2 bet you off theweakness of your turn bet. I'm thinking $26 at the minimum here for you as for her to 5x bet you on this bet would be rediculous for her and you couldwalk away no problem if she immediately had put you all in on that board. Once she reraised your bet however to 5x your bet you were done.... ultimately itdepends on what hands you had seen her play before, and she does sound like a donkey, which would make it even easier to get away here. In general youdon't want to get stacked off an unraised pot unless you have a set or better.
 
Originally Posted by sickickz23

Thanks for the responses. However, if I betted say, 20 dollars, perhaps everyone including the button would've folded and everyone at the table would assume that I would have an ace with a decent kicker or big slick.

If I flop two pair, I would want to make money, instead of just trying the buy the pot correct? Because my hand is strong, I can gamble that I can make some money without risk of losing a big pot. That's what I was thinking at least at the time.
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Sounds like you're overvaluing two pair to me.. it ain't that strong a hand in many cases, especially when it's not the top two pair on theboard.

Like someone else said - you want to play two pair, but you don't want to be so aggressive with it.. hope to boat up with it, that's when you makeyour big money.
Anyways - for those who remember my advice from the last big poker thread, i wouldn't even have been playing that k/9 there with just a call...it's a raise or fold, and mostly it's a fold with two flat-callers ahead and one person to come after you.. but if you want to play, RAISE.
 
Anyways - for those who remember my advice from the last big poker thread, i wouldn't even have been playing that k/9 there with just a call... it's a raise or fold, and mostly it's a fold with two flat-callers ahead and one person to come after you.. but if you want to play, RAISE.
Huh?

You don't think flopping two pair on a rainbow flop in an unraised pot preflop is that strong, but you would fold because there were two flat callers infront of you and you would have folded?
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You sound like scared money to me.

The guy was in the small blind. He had something called 'pot odds,' a term I'm sure you're familiar with to call. Folding there is a HORRIBLEplay. Especially with K9 suited.

He played the hand perfectly.

He bet out on the flop when he hit the two pair instead of trying to be cute and checking, protecting against draws. He bet again on the turn, and got raisedby the button. Let's take a look. No possible made straights on the board. A potential flush draw. Either the button has a set (unlikely because the buttondidn't raise preflop), the button has two pair as well (the guy's two pair is still probably the best hand as again, no raise preflop from the buttonto indicate she has A-K or A-8. A-9 is less likely since the guy has one of the 9's) or the button is on a flush draw/gutshot straight draw. If that'sthe case, it's a horrible play on her part knowing what we know. She tried to bully on a draw, when she could have just saw the river cheaply. We'renot getting pushed around in this situation, taking everything into account, and all signs pointing to us having the best hand.

It was a good play by the original poster, and it was just an unfortunate beat.
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seriously, i would've played the 2 pair also. And boo, she got lucky, she didn't have squat until the river came out.

its okay tho, i've had too many ace's full of whatever pair and got beat by a 4 of a kind. stuff like that hurts my heart.
 
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