Obama's Christian faith has been discussed and scrutinized to no end by the conservative religious r

[boys noize]

I already have a strong personal opinion on this matter but I thought this would make an interesting discussion topic.

Obama has been accused of being a Muslim socialist bent on imposing Sharia law on America. First there were the accusations that he wasn't truly American. He was accused of being Kenyan or Indonesian and not eligible for office. Then he was accused of being a Muslim and not a Christian. There are some that say that his time spent living in Indonesia as a boy and the "influence" of his Muslim Kenyan family, that he never saw, formed him into the Muslim man he is today. Then there are those that say he isn't a "true" Christian. That his faith is not like that of mainstream Protestantism. He is accused of focusing too much on the social aspects of the gospel, am emphasis on helping the poor, and going directly against certain mainstream biblical interpretations, being for a women's right to choose an abortion and being for same-sex marriage.

To me, it's pretty clear that Obama is a liberal Christian or really good at hiding his non-belief. He's one that doesn't interpret the book literally and has admitted as much. He's said:

“Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is OK and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount – a passage that is so radical that it’s doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application?”

He focuses on the parts of the book that most people, Christians, other religions, and non-believers alike, would agree are good. Helping the poor for instance. He has championed causes that benefit the poor, universal health care and a lower tax burden on the middle class and below. For that, he's accused by the GOP as trying to bring socialism to America. I don't see it that way.

Getting to the root of the problem by trying to make it better for those in poverty directly affects all of us Americans. Crime rates, unwanted pregnancies, and low levels of education are all directly tied to poverty. You want less abortions? Help the poor. Educate on safe sex. Don't demonize contraceptives. You want people to stop killing each other? Give them a better education so they have a way out. Give them a chance at economic mobility. You want to get the economy going again? A better educated populace is a more innovative one. So I don't buy that argument that he's a trying to ruin America via socialism.

The other point of discussion I wanted to touch on is why the religion right don't seem to mind that Mitt Romney is a devout Mormon. While they have no trouble skewering Obama for a perceived perversion of the faith, Mitt Romney is a firm believer in a faith that is starkly different from that of mainstream Protestantism. Mormons have their own religious texts apart from the bible. Mormon's religious practices and rituals are very different from Protestants. Mormon's idea of salvation is fundamentally different. For the longest time, Mormonism was considered a cult by mainstream Protestants.

So why does Mitt Romney get a pass? Why now?

 

[denni5themenace]

Because hes white

 

[Mark Antony]

Because the message has long since been "get Obama out of office" instead of making America better relative to your beliefs (right or wrong). Why do they want THIS President out so bad? you know why.

 

[rillo561]

I wonder this too, much was made about Reverend Wright, but the more I learn about the Mormon religion it seems so cult(ish). Hell, we know who wrote/founded the religion I found it funny yesterday I saw a "Catholics for Romney bumper sticker". I think it comes down to "anybody but Obama".

 

[mastamind033]

They try to portray Obama as a Muslim to make themselves feel better about voting for a Mormon like Romney

 

[david bowman]

This week, the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association removed Mormonism from its list of religious cults. The reclassification follows Romney’s visit to Graham’s mountain home last Thursday

 

[futuremd]

Obama isn't a christian. If you ask me, he's a closet non-believer.

As for why Romney gets a pass? www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/09/fear-of-a-black-president/309064/

Yeah...Obama is a non-believer if you ask me. I can't prove it because he won't say it, but I think the evidence is there. We'll never know since he won't reveal it as its political suicide at the present time. Plus, what would it take to really believe him? Its not hard to fake a couple prayers here and there. 

About his mother

 "This isn't to say that she provided me with no religious instruction. In her mind, a working knowledge of the world's great religions was a necessary part of any well-rounded education. In our household the Bible, the Koran, and the Bhagavad Gita sat on the shelf alongside books of Greek and Norse and African mythology. On Easter or Christmas Day my mother might drag me to church, just as she dragged me to the Buddhist temple, the chinese New Year celebration, the Shinto shrine, and ancient Hawaiian burial sites. But I was made to understand that such religious samplings required no sustained commitment on my part. Religion was an expression of human culture, she would explain, not its wellspring, just one of the many ways —and not necessarily the best way — that man attempted to control the unknowable and understand the deeper truths about our lives."

His biological father[? Atheist.

His mother? Atheist AND anthropologist (understanding human society and behavior)

His grandfather  and grandmother  that raised him? Both vocal atheists (talks about this a lot in his books). His grandmother actually started to attend very liberal unitarian churches as well. 

Simply put: Black people aren't getting elected if they're not religious.

Quotes like this and that speech from 2006[6] he did where he espouses his problems with referring to the bible show me that hes a closet atheist/very agnostic person that is playing the game of political musical chairs.

Don't forget this:

He "found" god @ 26 as a community organizer in Chicago and if you know chicago, theres a lot of black people there and you're not going to get famous there, as black man, without the black vote which comes from black churches. He had to play the game.

Grew up in extremely diverse settings, i'm sure having memories of madrasas allowed him to contrast that with the radical christianity in america....

Hes one of the smartest presidents, on paper, that we've ever had. Remember, they tried to make fun of him because he went to the best schools in the country? I mean come on as if being a biracial kid raised by a single mother (even though she used to work for the Ford Foundation...LOL) isn't a massive hurdle in life.

Every chance he gets hes always promoting STEM fields and human achievement. Not willy nilly passive goals.

He rarely says that prayer influences his decisions a-la Bush 1 or 2, or even the possibly closet atheist that clinton was said to be. Faith is never a member of his team of decision makers.

When he forgets to pray people blow their lids off and call him unamerican. He left god out of the verbatim recitation of various historical documents[8] and speeches[9] and 9/11[1

Hes not religious At all.

Every time he opens his mouth about christianity it sounds forced as hell[11] . I'm not going to go into his politics or anything...but I think to call him a closet atheist, is not a far stretch at all. I know many  love the "wheres the evidence" claim, but to be honest here. Obama has had more secular groups at the white house than any other president[13] , a point verified by many fundie-right wingers; so i'm sure they'd be honest about feeling threatened. He only refers to religion during times of tragedy[14] , mandatory events like prayer breakfasts[15] ...or when hes trolling the GOP like he recently basically said "this is what jesus would do,"[16] to try and convince them to adopt his politics.

He trolls religion regularly. Its obvious. Why else do you think all the fundies are scared they would lose their privileges under him? He even campaigned on eliminating faith-based initiatives[17] but after the backlash following his election he was forced to backtrack and reinforce the initiative with a "faith office". On top of that, don't forget him trying to get catholics to pay for birth control... hes trolling catholic church hospitals these days[18] . I'm certain that even slightly religious people would have more "respect" for people of faith and their autonomy.

Obama has supported gay-rights WHOLEHEARTEDLY[19] since 1996 AT LEAST

No one in politics or academia believes him; Even people with different views don't believe him:

Chris Hitchens[2 , Richard Dawkins[21] , Ann Coulter[22] , Lawrence Krauss[23] , Pat Buchanan[24] , Franklin Graham[25] , Pat Roberson[26] , Bill Maher[27] , Penn Jillette[28] etc. All of them think hes faking it. Hardcore christians and hardcore atheists.

He also campaigned on getting religion out of hiring practices: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20082217-503544.html[29]

He's the first president to acknowledge non-believers: http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-01-20-obama-non-believers_N.htm[3

Now you want info on Jeremiah Wright? Obama probably only distantly knew the guy. He had to more than likely only show up for appearances to make him seem like he was in touch with the community.

Here is a point we need to talk about... Jeremiah Wright was caught saying "god damn america"...but you really don't understand what he was getting at.[31] He was saying how utterly ****** up this country has been to minorities. Its true. You can deny it all you want, but he was highlighting a truth, albeit emotionally. He just wanted to say that America should really recognize their ways if they want to embrace Obama. Its kinda that "hey, they don't like me? well damn them!" Jeremiah Wright is not racist. Not at all. But you have to remember the bias white/right-wing america feels to anyone who talks about white priviledge[32] or exposes their messed up of institutionalized racism, so of course the clip was crazy. Obama had to throw him under the bus to move on[33] .

Black churches are the greatest source of networking in most urban communities, especially if black leaders are known to attend. Its all a game. I know in every major city with a sizable minority population that many times, elected black officials only show up to church in times of election or when they need community support. They adopt a church home only to show their relation to the community. Its all for show. They have to connect with the people some how. Thats what a "representative" (in his case Senator) does.

Name a president who says this in his inaugural speech:

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus, and  nonbelievers.  We are shaped by every language and culture, drawn from every end of this Earth."

He's already the negro, kenyan, socialist, communist, anti christ, who hates America.

Why throw people another bone to hate him for?

Few links outlining many inconsistencies in his "faith":

1. 
   http://thekingsmanpaper.com/2012/03/the-atheist-in-chief/
2. 
   http://jewishatheist.blogspot.com/2007/10/obama-and-religion.html
3. 
   http://johntreed.com/Obamaatheist.html

Here he is making fun clinging to guns and religion: 

There is even a new biography that tackles his introduction to christianity and it sounds...forced at best

And to cap it off, here is a section from "The Audacity of Hope". Start in the middle of p.198—p.206 http://lnk.co/KPZUD[39] . If that doesn't scream "faking it" to you, I don't know what will.

 

[elpablo21]

He's black, muslim and a socialist.

and he was born in......KENYA

They can't let those things slide

Because the message has long since been "get Obama out of office" instead of making America better relative to your beliefs (right or wrong). Why do they want THIS President out so bad? you know why.

 

[futuremd]

I wonder this too, much was made about Reverend Wright, but the more I learn about the Mormon religion it seems so cult(ish). Hell, we know who wrote/founded the religion I found it funny yesterday I saw a "Catholics for Romney bumper sticker". I think it comes down to "anybody but Obama".

Read what I said about reverend wright. A lot of it comes down to Americas misunderstanding of the minority experience. 

 

[Mark Antony]

I think he's more so a closet non-believer because he's married to a black woman.

 

[rillo561]

Read what I said about reverend wright. A lot of it comes down to Americas misunderstanding of the minority experience. 

I totally agree, but it was blown up and people still believe/talk about it. I also believe Obama is a non-believer he just has to 'play the part' I guess. IMO Obama isn't much of a 'liberal' either.

 

[boys noize]

I'm not so sure about Obama being a non-believer. That might just be wishful thinking on our part. We may never really know.

 

[julius wrek]

Hey_

FutureMD, I had to rep simply for posting The Atlantic's "Fear of a Black President" article.

I sincerely hope it spreads across the internet like fire before election.

Strange that I come across this thread, after bringing this up in my Speech class yesterday.

Julius F. Wrek

 

[futuremd]

I'm not so sure about Obama being a non-believer. That might just be wishful thinking on our part. We may never really know.

Heres the thing. No one believes him. Thats a major nuance here. There is a reason you don't take his religious claims seriously. Plus, you know his background on religion. 

I think the guy is outright faking it. 

If you're waiting for him to admit it, you know you won't get that answer from him for a long time either. On top of that, faking being a christian isn't hard at all. Say a few "prayers" and "jesus" a few times and voila. You've done it. Obama only connects with the social advocacy of christianity anyways. Thats how hes tried to frame himself morally. If you don't believe in the supernatural claims of the religion, as he has a really poor history of ever doing so, then you see how he uses his leverage in the black community to reinforce his history of social justice. 

Even further, you have to admit that you know better than to take a politicians word on EVERYTHING they say. 

I know this introduces a slight inconsistency in terms of the burden of proof, but i'm asking you whether or not you believe the claim that hes asserting.

Do you really believe Obama is a christian? Knowing how he was raised, knowing why he became religious, and knowing how he refers to religion? 

 

[antonlavey]

I'm not so sure about Obama being a non-believer. That might just be wishful thinking on our part. We may never really know.

I don't wish Obama is anything, but I have a hunch he's an atheist. His mother and father were both non-believers.

 

[Majorbread]

Its such a damb shame that the religion of the president even plays a role/is discussed like it actually matters



People can have strong morals without being a believer

 

[Johnny_Cakes]

Count me in the camp that believes he is a non-believer. I wonder if sometime after his presidency he'll come forward about this.

 

[futuremd]

Its such a damb shame that the religion of the president even plays a role/is discussed like it actually matters

People can have strong morals without being a believer

It SOUNDS obvious, but...we all know what the reality of the situation is. 

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

i've always found it interesting that we have a lot of openly christian leaders in this country that hoard money and refuse to give to the poor. it's the exact opposite of what the bible demands. i think it's interesting that obama is often criticized for his religious beliefs, and whether they are what he says they are, because people forget that this nation isn't supposed to be governed under the principles of christianity. this is a nation for everyone, no matter what their religions beliefs may be.