Official 2011 NFL Draft Thead Vol. Lions winning.... Niners losing...

me and you have different definitions for "it"

Matt Ryan played on some !$@+$$ teams at BC, and he willed them to Ws. (and I dont like Ryan at all)

Russell Shepherd's NC State doesnt have as much offensive talent as UDub, but he collects Ws

there have been many QBs who play on sub standard Teams who put the teams on their backs and get Ws. thats "it" to me.

Locker has some good tools but never  makes them work at the same time.
 
me and you have different definitions for "it"

Matt Ryan played on some !$@+$$ teams at BC, and he willed them to Ws. (and I dont like Ryan at all)

Russell Shepherd's NC State doesnt have as much offensive talent as UDub, but he collects Ws

there have been many QBs who play on sub standard Teams who put the teams on their backs and get Ws. thats "it" to me.

Locker has some good tools but never  makes them work at the same time.
 
^ That's fair to say, but I believe those QB's figured it before Locker.

Besides, I still strongly believe that Sark hindered Locker in the short-term these last two season. He was trying to mold Locker into the NFL ready, pocket passer. Locker's instincts dictated he play a different way. You could see the constant battle he had with himself regarding his decision making in the aspects of pocket vs. open field.

It will probably benefit him now has he moves onto the NFL, but peoples perceptions were rightfully skewed based on what they saw, which I don't think told half the story.  
 
^ That's fair to say, but I believe those QB's figured it before Locker.

Besides, I still strongly believe that Sark hindered Locker in the short-term these last two season. He was trying to mold Locker into the NFL ready, pocket passer. Locker's instincts dictated he play a different way. You could see the constant battle he had with himself regarding his decision making in the aspects of pocket vs. open field.

It will probably benefit him now has he moves onto the NFL, but peoples perceptions were rightfully skewed based on what they saw, which I don't think told half the story.  
 
Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

^ That's fair to say, but I believe those QB's figured it before Locker.

Besides, I still strongly believe that Sark hindered Locker in the short-term these last two season. He was trying to mold Locker into the NFL ready, pocket passer. Locker's instincts dictated he play a different way. You could see the constant battle he had with himself regarding his decision making in the aspects of pocket vs. open field.

It will probably benefit him now has he moves onto the NFL, but peoples perceptions were rightfully skewed based on what they saw, which I don't think told half the story.  
If Sark can't mold him, then who can?  You're making a @%@+ load of excuses for ol' boy....He's gonna be a waste of a draft pick...dude is more of a project than Cam Newton.  Good athlete, but a terrible QB. 
 
Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

^ That's fair to say, but I believe those QB's figured it before Locker.

Besides, I still strongly believe that Sark hindered Locker in the short-term these last two season. He was trying to mold Locker into the NFL ready, pocket passer. Locker's instincts dictated he play a different way. You could see the constant battle he had with himself regarding his decision making in the aspects of pocket vs. open field.

It will probably benefit him now has he moves onto the NFL, but peoples perceptions were rightfully skewed based on what they saw, which I don't think told half the story.  
If Sark can't mold him, then who can?  You're making a @%@+ load of excuses for ol' boy....He's gonna be a waste of a draft pick...dude is more of a project than Cam Newton.  Good athlete, but a terrible QB. 
 
Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

^ That's fair to say, but I believe those QB's figured it before Locker.

Besides, I still strongly believe that Sark hindered Locker in the short-term these last two season. He was trying to mold Locker into the NFL ready, pocket passer. Locker's instincts dictated he play a different way. You could see the constant battle he had with himself regarding his decision making in the aspects of pocket vs. open field.

It will probably benefit him now has he moves onto the NFL, but peoples perceptions were rightfully skewed based on what they saw, which I don't think told half the story.  
why you defending him so much?

Dude isnt a winner and doesnt have the accuracy to make it in the NFL.

he isnt a 1st rounder %%+% the way hes playin now it wont surprise me to see him go towards the bottom of the 2nd early 3rd
 
Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

^ That's fair to say, but I believe those QB's figured it before Locker.

Besides, I still strongly believe that Sark hindered Locker in the short-term these last two season. He was trying to mold Locker into the NFL ready, pocket passer. Locker's instincts dictated he play a different way. You could see the constant battle he had with himself regarding his decision making in the aspects of pocket vs. open field.

It will probably benefit him now has he moves onto the NFL, but peoples perceptions were rightfully skewed based on what they saw, which I don't think told half the story.  
why you defending him so much?

Dude isnt a winner and doesnt have the accuracy to make it in the NFL.

he isnt a 1st rounder %%+% the way hes playin now it wont surprise me to see him go towards the bottom of the 2nd early 3rd
 
Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

^ That's fair to say, but I believe those QB's figured it before Locker.

Besides, I still strongly believe that Sark hindered Locker in the short-term these last two season. He was trying to mold Locker into the NFL ready, pocket passer. Locker's instincts dictated he play a different way. You could see the constant battle he had with himself regarding his decision making in the aspects of pocket vs. open field.

It will probably benefit him now has he moves onto the NFL, but peoples perceptions were rightfully skewed based on what they saw, which I don't think told half the story.  
If Sark can't mold him, then who can?  You're making a @%@+ load of excuses for ol' boy....He's gonna be a waste of a draft pick...dude is more of a project than Cam Newton.  Good athlete, but a terrible QB. 



Totally disagree. With Cam you're starting at square 1. He ran a spread option, up tempo system out of the gun. He needs to learn how to come from under center and read defenses. That Auburn system dictates so many basic looks (cover 1, fire blitzes, spies, etc) that he won't be seeing nearly as often at the next level. That offense dumbs things down in terms of reads and what defenses can do, not gonna happen in the NFL. His mechanics still need to be worked on as well (as does Locker).
 
Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

^ That's fair to say, but I believe those QB's figured it before Locker.

Besides, I still strongly believe that Sark hindered Locker in the short-term these last two season. He was trying to mold Locker into the NFL ready, pocket passer. Locker's instincts dictated he play a different way. You could see the constant battle he had with himself regarding his decision making in the aspects of pocket vs. open field.

It will probably benefit him now has he moves onto the NFL, but peoples perceptions were rightfully skewed based on what they saw, which I don't think told half the story.  
If Sark can't mold him, then who can?  You're making a @%@+ load of excuses for ol' boy....He's gonna be a waste of a draft pick...dude is more of a project than Cam Newton.  Good athlete, but a terrible QB. 



Totally disagree. With Cam you're starting at square 1. He ran a spread option, up tempo system out of the gun. He needs to learn how to come from under center and read defenses. That Auburn system dictates so many basic looks (cover 1, fire blitzes, spies, etc) that he won't be seeing nearly as often at the next level. That offense dumbs things down in terms of reads and what defenses can do, not gonna happen in the NFL. His mechanics still need to be worked on as well (as does Locker).
 
Jake Locker is what...a 5th year senior who CAN'T read defenses and regressed. What have you seen from Cam Newton that suggests that he's going to have a harder transition as a pro than Jake Locker? I'm not seeing it. Yeah, he's got a lot to work on....but IMO he has a higher upside.

*As far as Newton's mechanics...I'm still not seeing that being as big of an issue as you make it seem. He's shown nice touch on both short/long throws....he does need to brush up on his footwork and not rely so much on throwing off his back leg.

George Whitfield, the self-described "Quarterback Builder" from the San Diego area, knows Roethlisberger's skill set as well as anyone else. Earlier this year, Whitfield, a 33-year-old former college and arena football quarterback, spent a month working with the Steelers star as he tried to stay sharp while sidelined with his league suspension.


"The comparison comes from both being big and 'playing big,'" Whitfield says. "To me, it's like watching an eighth-grader playing against fifth-graders. And Ben and Cam are both really, really underrated passers -- accurate and pretty consistent, but neither are really featured as a passer. They're more just playmakers. I think Ben could do well in New England's offense, and I think Cam could do well in Stanford's offense.


"The size and playmaker thing is special. Most people can't imagine how big they are and how athletic they are. Earlier this year the Saints nose tackle was wrapped around Ben like a scarf, and he just shrugged him off. You see Cam doing similar things."


Newton actually is faster than Roethlisberger, maybe two-tenths of a second faster on a stopwatch in a 40-yard dash, Whitfield suspects; he thinks the Auburn star may be a sub-4.6 guy.


Newton came into this season known primarily as a running quarterback. He certainly has lived up to that part by setting an SEC rushing record for a quarterback and notching six games with at least 150 yards rushing. However, it's his exploits as a passer that have really wowed observers who are conditioned to look for flaws. (Mel Kiper added him to his NFL draft Big Board a few weeks ago.) In Newton's past seven games (with four of those matchups against top-20 opponents), he has a 16-to-1 touchdown-to-interception ratio. He leads the nation in passing efficiency at 188.16, a figure that's almost 25 points higher than that of last season's top guy (Tebow) and almost 10 points higher than Sam Bradford's stat in 2008, when he won the Heisman.


After studying Newton's passing mechanics, everything is "clean," Whitfield says. "You just don't see a lot of guys who can consistently power the ball and also feather the ball."


"Cam's arm is really good, really strong. I don't think it's a JaMarcus Russell-type strong, but he can match up with a Josh Freeman and a [Matthew] Stafford and those young guys who can really throw it, but he's gonna have to use a little more of his lower body when he throws. You see him throw flat-footed a lot."


Part of that stems from the system Newton plays in. Whitfield said a big deal for Newton when he makes the transition to the NFL will be that he doesn't throw in rhythm. He and similar quarterbacks such as Tebow catch the snap, crouch down and pop back up. "They don't have to use steps to drive the ball," Whitfield says. "Cam's gotta get that down. He has the arm and the tools. It's just a matter of his feet and having the sense of urgency while being organized to be on time.


"If he can focus on stepping in and driving the ball more, he'll shave another tenth of a second [off the delivery of] the ball and will be able to hit the receiver two steps sooner coming out of his break."


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/main
 
Jake Locker is what...a 5th year senior who CAN'T read defenses and regressed. What have you seen from Cam Newton that suggests that he's going to have a harder transition as a pro than Jake Locker? I'm not seeing it. Yeah, he's got a lot to work on....but IMO he has a higher upside.

*As far as Newton's mechanics...I'm still not seeing that being as big of an issue as you make it seem. He's shown nice touch on both short/long throws....he does need to brush up on his footwork and not rely so much on throwing off his back leg.

George Whitfield, the self-described "Quarterback Builder" from the San Diego area, knows Roethlisberger's skill set as well as anyone else. Earlier this year, Whitfield, a 33-year-old former college and arena football quarterback, spent a month working with the Steelers star as he tried to stay sharp while sidelined with his league suspension.


"The comparison comes from both being big and 'playing big,'" Whitfield says. "To me, it's like watching an eighth-grader playing against fifth-graders. And Ben and Cam are both really, really underrated passers -- accurate and pretty consistent, but neither are really featured as a passer. They're more just playmakers. I think Ben could do well in New England's offense, and I think Cam could do well in Stanford's offense.


"The size and playmaker thing is special. Most people can't imagine how big they are and how athletic they are. Earlier this year the Saints nose tackle was wrapped around Ben like a scarf, and he just shrugged him off. You see Cam doing similar things."


Newton actually is faster than Roethlisberger, maybe two-tenths of a second faster on a stopwatch in a 40-yard dash, Whitfield suspects; he thinks the Auburn star may be a sub-4.6 guy.


Newton came into this season known primarily as a running quarterback. He certainly has lived up to that part by setting an SEC rushing record for a quarterback and notching six games with at least 150 yards rushing. However, it's his exploits as a passer that have really wowed observers who are conditioned to look for flaws. (Mel Kiper added him to his NFL draft Big Board a few weeks ago.) In Newton's past seven games (with four of those matchups against top-20 opponents), he has a 16-to-1 touchdown-to-interception ratio. He leads the nation in passing efficiency at 188.16, a figure that's almost 25 points higher than that of last season's top guy (Tebow) and almost 10 points higher than Sam Bradford's stat in 2008, when he won the Heisman.


After studying Newton's passing mechanics, everything is "clean," Whitfield says. "You just don't see a lot of guys who can consistently power the ball and also feather the ball."


"Cam's arm is really good, really strong. I don't think it's a JaMarcus Russell-type strong, but he can match up with a Josh Freeman and a [Matthew] Stafford and those young guys who can really throw it, but he's gonna have to use a little more of his lower body when he throws. You see him throw flat-footed a lot."


Part of that stems from the system Newton plays in. Whitfield said a big deal for Newton when he makes the transition to the NFL will be that he doesn't throw in rhythm. He and similar quarterbacks such as Tebow catch the snap, crouch down and pop back up. "They don't have to use steps to drive the ball," Whitfield says. "Cam's gotta get that down. He has the arm and the tools. It's just a matter of his feet and having the sense of urgency while being organized to be on time.


"If he can focus on stepping in and driving the ball more, he'll shave another tenth of a second [off the delivery of] the ball and will be able to hit the receiver two steps sooner coming out of his break."


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/main
 
Originally Posted by KingJames23

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

^ That's fair to say, but I believe those QB's figured it before Locker.

Besides, I still strongly believe that Sark hindered Locker in the short-term these last two season. He was trying to mold Locker into the NFL ready, pocket passer. Locker's instincts dictated he play a different way. You could see the constant battle he had with himself regarding his decision making in the aspects of pocket vs. open field.

It will probably benefit him now has he moves onto the NFL, but peoples perceptions were rightfully skewed based on what they saw, which I don't think told half the story.  
If Sark can't mold him, then who can?  You're making a @%@+ load of excuses for ol' boy....He's gonna be a waste of a draft pick...dude is more of a project than Cam Newton.  Good athlete, but a terrible QB. 



Totally disagree. With Cam you're starting at square 1. He ran a spread option, up tempo system out of the gun. He needs to learn how to come from under center and read defenses. That Auburn system dictates so many basic looks (cover 1, fire blitzes, spies, etc) that he won't be seeing nearly as often at the next level. That offense dumbs things down in terms of reads and what defenses can do, not gonna happen in the NFL. His mechanics still need to be worked on as well (as does Locker).
Jake has had two years of coaching and still sucks. Cam had zero.

  
 
Originally Posted by KingJames23

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

^ That's fair to say, but I believe those QB's figured it before Locker.

Besides, I still strongly believe that Sark hindered Locker in the short-term these last two season. He was trying to mold Locker into the NFL ready, pocket passer. Locker's instincts dictated he play a different way. You could see the constant battle he had with himself regarding his decision making in the aspects of pocket vs. open field.

It will probably benefit him now has he moves onto the NFL, but peoples perceptions were rightfully skewed based on what they saw, which I don't think told half the story.  
If Sark can't mold him, then who can?  You're making a @%@+ load of excuses for ol' boy....He's gonna be a waste of a draft pick...dude is more of a project than Cam Newton.  Good athlete, but a terrible QB. 



Totally disagree. With Cam you're starting at square 1. He ran a spread option, up tempo system out of the gun. He needs to learn how to come from under center and read defenses. That Auburn system dictates so many basic looks (cover 1, fire blitzes, spies, etc) that he won't be seeing nearly as often at the next level. That offense dumbs things down in terms of reads and what defenses can do, not gonna happen in the NFL. His mechanics still need to be worked on as well (as does Locker).
Jake has had two years of coaching and still sucks. Cam had zero.

  
 
Jake Locker is an athlete playing quarterback. His production has never been at an elite level. His results never have been either. His ABILITY has never lived up to his TALENT.

He's a bad quarterback right now. He's nowhere close to being ready for the NFL and we've never seen any type of consistency where his play lived up to the hype about his raw talent...

That man ain't a first rounder for me. He may be fine down the line, but there's way too many issues for me...
 
Jake Locker is an athlete playing quarterback. His production has never been at an elite level. His results never have been either. His ABILITY has never lived up to his TALENT.

He's a bad quarterback right now. He's nowhere close to being ready for the NFL and we've never seen any type of consistency where his play lived up to the hype about his raw talent...

That man ain't a first rounder for me. He may be fine down the line, but there's way too many issues for me...
 
I've watched quite a few UW games; Locker just isn't a great passer. He's athletic and can make plays with his feet, but he just doesn't project well to me as an NFL passer. He's simply not accurate. If you watch him then watch Andrew Luck, you can see there is a huge, huge difference between the two in terms of being a good QB in the NFL.
 
I've watched quite a few UW games; Locker just isn't a great passer. He's athletic and can make plays with his feet, but he just doesn't project well to me as an NFL passer. He's simply not accurate. If you watch him then watch Andrew Luck, you can see there is a huge, huge difference between the two in terms of being a good QB in the NFL.
 
Originally Posted by acidicality

I've watched quite a few UW games; Locker just isn't a great passer. He's athletic and can make plays with his feet, but he just doesn't project well to me as an NFL passer. He's simply not accurate. If you watch him then watch Andrew Luck, you can see there is a huge, huge difference between the two in terms of being a good QB in the NFL.



Luck is the best QB prospect since Peyton and does everything an NFL QB should do with picture perfect mechanics. It's not fair to compare anyone to Luck.

But point taken.
 
Originally Posted by acidicality

I've watched quite a few UW games; Locker just isn't a great passer. He's athletic and can make plays with his feet, but he just doesn't project well to me as an NFL passer. He's simply not accurate. If you watch him then watch Andrew Luck, you can see there is a huge, huge difference between the two in terms of being a good QB in the NFL.



Luck is the best QB prospect since Peyton and does everything an NFL QB should do with picture perfect mechanics. It's not fair to compare anyone to Luck.

But point taken.
 
Jake has been "coached up" though his mechanics are better than they were. He just cannot consistently throw.
 
Jake has been "coached up" though his mechanics are better than they were. He just cannot consistently throw.
 
Originally Posted by KingJames23

Originally Posted by acidicality

I've watched quite a few UW games; Locker just isn't a great passer. He's athletic and can make plays with his feet, but he just doesn't project well to me as an NFL passer. He's simply not accurate. If you watch him then watch Andrew Luck, you can see there is a huge, huge difference between the two in terms of being a good QB in the NFL.



Luck is the best QB prospect since Peyton and does everything an NFL QB should do with picture perfect mechanics. It's not fair to compare anyone to Luck.

But point taken.
this.

i've been on Lockers side since last year. I still say, with all of the crap thrown, he had 0 talent on his side. I want to see him with a little talent, a decent line and rb. i'll stand by that until then. Does he need work, Yes. When he is rushed or panics he throws high which equals picks. he needs to set and go a lot better, happy feet are a B----. He will get there as long as he keeps a good head.
Someone made the point earlier (about cam), I've always believed if you are a winner and hard worker you will be successful. everyone talked about how tebow, whom is an amazing worker and his will to win is of the charts, was gonna be trash no matter what because of his throwing and college spread offense, and he had 3 decent games. Is he ready, no. But he still went out there and made it happen. There has been reports Cam isn't a good worker, so we'll see. If he is and those are false or just bs from haters, and he is along that tebow mold, then I do believe he'll be fine sooner than later. the will and heart to win, the passion, you will get there.

with time to sit, work, and get in the system i think they both will be just fine.
 
Originally Posted by KingJames23

Originally Posted by acidicality

I've watched quite a few UW games; Locker just isn't a great passer. He's athletic and can make plays with his feet, but he just doesn't project well to me as an NFL passer. He's simply not accurate. If you watch him then watch Andrew Luck, you can see there is a huge, huge difference between the two in terms of being a good QB in the NFL.



Luck is the best QB prospect since Peyton and does everything an NFL QB should do with picture perfect mechanics. It's not fair to compare anyone to Luck.

But point taken.
this.

i've been on Lockers side since last year. I still say, with all of the crap thrown, he had 0 talent on his side. I want to see him with a little talent, a decent line and rb. i'll stand by that until then. Does he need work, Yes. When he is rushed or panics he throws high which equals picks. he needs to set and go a lot better, happy feet are a B----. He will get there as long as he keeps a good head.
Someone made the point earlier (about cam), I've always believed if you are a winner and hard worker you will be successful. everyone talked about how tebow, whom is an amazing worker and his will to win is of the charts, was gonna be trash no matter what because of his throwing and college spread offense, and he had 3 decent games. Is he ready, no. But he still went out there and made it happen. There has been reports Cam isn't a good worker, so we'll see. If he is and those are false or just bs from haters, and he is along that tebow mold, then I do believe he'll be fine sooner than later. the will and heart to win, the passion, you will get there.

with time to sit, work, and get in the system i think they both will be just fine.
 
Cam and Jake are 2 QBs who could potentially get their respective coaches fired.

Both shouldn't see the field unless situations demand it.
 
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