Official Bitcoin Thread

[osh kosh bosh]

To me, Crypto for crime is the same kind of argument that people used when the internet started. Oh the internet will allow criminals to do xyz.

Or any other financial innovation (cheques, credit cards, etc.). Oh these will allow criminals to fraud by doing xyz.

ok?

if the tech is superior and there’s actual use cases, it will prevail.

the internet provides significant more utility than bitcoin.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

the internet provides significant more utility than bitcoin.

crypto provides utility as well, you're just unaware of what you can do through defi, nft's, stable coins, etc.

 

[mplsdunk]

Bitcoin has undoubtedly made securing large ransom payments easier increasing the monetary rewards to cyber crime.
thus spurring development and investment in cyber crime tools.

something like Bitcoin that has limited utility beyond speculation is at risk of being scapegoated by US regulators right or wrong.
if that happened would that not instantly decimate the value of bitcoin?

it has limited utility to us because we don’t have hyper inflation, it’s just investing to us.

sure they could decimate it but we’d all just buy more.

it’s been regulated, you weren’t even paying taxes on it back in the day.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

What's the argument? That Bitcoin's downfall will be because it's today's criminals' preferred form of ransom? That's ridiculous . When USA bans BTC because of that, and criminals start asking for ETH, does that mean ETH is dead too? Etc Etc Etc.

uh yes? you really think it's that hard to come up with language that essentially bans decentralized blockchain coin networks from being converted to cash?
i can do it, im sure the us government can.

Also BTC isn't untraceable, it's anonymous. The blockchain is there literally so that you can trace every transaction .

Criminal gets BTC as ransom sent to address abc123 > Address abc123 transfers BTC to Coinbase > Criminal cashes BTC to USD on Coinbase > Criminal is caught

be serious: you don't think it's significantly easier to launder money through a decentralized payment network? vs the traditional global financial system?


im no Marty from Ozark but it seems to meall it takes is converting the bitcoin to more private coin and then converting that back to bitcoin and then to cash.
Seems a lot easier than traditional money laundering.


like if you commited a crime, and I offered you 1 million in cash vs 1 million in bitcoin,
you really think your risk is the same with both options?

 

[mplsdunk]

I’d take the cash personally...

 

[osh kosh bosh]

crypto provides utility as well, you're just unaware of what you can do through defi, nft's, stable coins, etc.

i said

"the internet provides significant more utility than bitcoin"

I already agreed that other cryptocurrencies have the potential to provide more utility and the blockchain concept in general has significant possible utility


but currently bitcoins primary utility is speculation and cybercrime.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I’d take the cash personally...

1 million in cash. lol. okay fam.

i hope your dad is this guy

 

[osh kosh bosh]

it has limited utility to us because we don’t have hyper inflation, it’s just investing to us.

sure they could decimate it but we’d all just buy more.

it’s been regulated, you weren’t even paying taxes on it back in the day.

again I would question the wisdom of using something
where it's value can be significantly impacted by an Elon Musk tweet as a hedge against inflation.

 

[ICE CITY CF]

I was asking about btc specifically. From what I can gather, despite being the poster child for crypto, BTC apparently isnt as useful as others? Is it safe to assume then that demand doesnt justify price?

I think the answer to both questions is nuanced.

In short BTC might not be as useful as other coins, but either the functions of those coins are intended to solve problems that Bitcoin wasn't intended for, or they improve on inefficiencies learned on the back of Bitcoin over the last 10+ years.

Can we assume that the demand for Gold justifies the price using any other metric than what people are willing to pay for it?

Some things are abundantly clear. Bitcoin is the original cryptocurrency and the pioneering technology behind a market worth $1.7B. We know that people value it and are willing to pay for it. It's supply is also finite and grows in scarcity by the day.

The same questions you ask as a gotcha to Bitcoin can be asked about so many other assets that human beings place value in, and those assets have worse ROI and can't be used as a peer-to-peer payment system.

For the sake of brevity, tell me about 1 other crypto that you feel is representative of the space as a whole.

There isn't one crypto that represents the space as whole if we're having any kind of informed discussion about utility.

Did you ever look into Amp/Flexa or Telcoin when you asked me provide examples of cryptocurrencies with real world use cases a few weeks ago?

 

[mplsdunk]

First off all this doesn’t matter because it’s not what Bitcoin is used for most the time. More dirt is done with cash.

second I’m not well enough versed in btc to where I’d want dirty btc. a mil isn’t that much cash. It’s not the movies man. There’s a ton of ways to invest it.

 

[wr]

You guys are always thinking about money. These are next generation internet protocols.
When they are fully implemented, cashing out into fiat will be the last thing on your mind.

 

[mplsdunk]

You guys are always thinking about money. These are next generation internet protocols.
When they are fully implemented, cashing out into fiat will be the last thing on your mind.

At this rate I’ve already changed my mind state to that.

I’m staking most my crypto and even the worst rates are beating the bank. Not to mention over time the value of the coins will go way up. I don’t see a reason to cash out anymore.

 

[dceja]

What’s up with knc jumping like that smh

 

[pdino]

wut?

they just took down worlds largest meat producers, essentially knocking out 1/5th of america's meat production.

it's not just about "personal information"


all im saying is as these Cyber crimes get more dramatic.
its going to attract more regulatory scrutiny when all of them ask to be paid in bitcoin.

Again, Cryptocurrency has the technology right now to STOP the cybercrime in its tracks. Coinbase is a current example. They carry Billions if not trillions of dollars and personal information on the blockchain. They've NEVER been hacked. They've never had ransomware cybercrime. It's impregnable. The solution to your problem is IN CRYPTOCURRENCY. We have the technology right now. Data is secured in the blockchain. SECURED, UNHACKABLE, NO RANSOMWARE NO CYBERCRIME. This is technology being used RIGHT NOW and proving itself RIGHT NOW.

You're worried about cybercrime and ransomware? Protect against it using the blockchain crypto technology

be serious, you really don't see why this is uniquely good for crime?
---

man I've known about Bitcoin for a long *** time, I was a teenager on the dark web once.

it's a genuinely novel ingenious concept, and Id imagine the blockchain has some genuine applications that would be real innovations, NFT's, smart contracts seem really like great ideas

im just asking about possible tail risk for bitcoin specifically as an investment.


people ask my advice on this stuff all the time and im genuinely torn on what to tell them.
I don't think it's near the ceiling yet, but I see this spector of regulation or serious crackdown looming

I've addressed this already and cited my references that the government has already released their intent on taxing cryptocurrencies more.

I'd like to know if theres any demand outside of a purely speculative investment vehicle or the bat **** crazy notion that it will someday replace fiat.

Also how much of the current market price can be attributed to this demand and how much is attributed to people treating it like a lottery ticket.

As stated before, Venezuela had undergone hyperinflation and their currency is worth almost nothing. They're the 3rd biggest adopter of Bitcoin.
This is a picture of a man with weaved Venezuelan currency making bags/baskets cause the material itself is worth more than the currency.

As a purely speculative investment vehicle:
At the start of May 2011, Bitcoin was trading for approximately $3.50 (that isn't a typo). So, $1,000 would have bought approximately 286 Bitcoins, not counting any transaction costs. As of April 27, 2021, Bitcoin trades for $54,680. (this is dated to April, but still applies)

That means 286 Bitcoins would be worth approximately $15.6 million today, assuming you held on to them for the past 10 years.

1000$-->15,600,000$ in 10 years. Regardless of any utility, anything it can do or not do, as a speculative investment, it is destroying all other investment sectors. I've personally made 50k+ this year from my speculative crypto investments.

 

[frankmatthews]

I think the answer to both questions is nuanced.

In short BTC might not be as useful as other coins, but either the functions of those coins are intended to solve problems that Bitcoin wasn't intended for, or they improve on inefficiencies learned on the back of Bitcoin over the last 10+ years.

Can we assume that the demand for Gold justifies the price using any other metric than what people are willing to pay for it?

Some things are abundantly clear. Bitcoin is the original cryptocurrency and the pioneering technology behind a market worth $1.7B. We know that people value it and are willing to pay for it. It's supply is also finite and grows in scarcity by the day.

The same questions you ask as a gotcha to Bitcoin can be asked about so many other assets that human beings place value in, and those assets have worse ROI and can't be used as a peer-to-peer payment system.



There isn't one crypto that represents the space as whole if we're having any kind of informed discussion about utility.

Did you ever look into Amp/Flexa or Telcoin when you asked me provide examples of cryptocurrencies with real world use cases a few weeks ago?

I dont think the fact that other highly speculative assets exist is an argument for btc. I personally feel the same way about gold as I do btc. Except gold does have a demonstrable demand outside of speculation. Thats all im really trying to understand. I get theres scarcity, I'm just trying to understand the demand side, cause it seems like 100% speculation.

I dont recall getting a reply to my previous question about use cases, I must have missed it. I will check out the ones you mentioned. Got any reliable sources you can point me to?

 

[stick]

uh yes? you really think it's that hard to come up with language that essentially bans decentralized blockchain coin networks from being converted to cash?
i can do it, im sure the us government can.





be serious: you don't think it's significantly easier to launder money through a decentralized payment network? vs the traditional global financial system?


im no Marty from Ozark but it seems to meall it takes is converting the bitcoin to more private coin and then converting that back to bitcoin and then to cash.
Seems a lot easier than traditional money laundering.


like if you commited a crime, and I offered you 1 million in cash vs 1 million in bitcoin,
you really think your risk is the same with both options?

I just think your whole scenario is completely overblown. "Bitcoin is used by criminals" is one of the most tired arguments in crypto. You're fighting tooth and nail for an embellished hypothetical situation. The pipeline hackers came away with $5 million . And I bet they would've hacked it for free. If the US bans BTC it's not gonna be because some cybercriminals came away with a few hundred mill worth over a decade.

 

[fapmasterjr]

just DYOR like a grown *** man. what,you want us to spoon feed you after your criticize it? weird man. you're short BTC....SAY IT. Tell us all what you are LONG in and we can see ur great points/ethics/fundamentals/gametheory on this asset you choose.

let me see...i don't know ANYTHING about astro physics,(like you to bitcoin) BUT let me criticize it.

if that's not being a weirdo or thirst for attention, i dunno what is. How bout you post this on reddit or twitter so you can see more replies.

HFSP

 

[mplsdunk]

It’s always the dudes short on crypto *****ing and whining about the ethics of it.

please enlighten me on how cash is peaceful, green and not used for crimes.

gold is even worse.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Privacy coins should be dude’s logic, even though I had a convo w the vp of growth at zcash about it and he brought up some really great points about protecting one’s identity and business which makes sense

 

[(*Fin)]

I’m sure it’s been posted but free courses at MIT if you need more convincing. Even watching these lectures and then seeing the growth from that time until now is amazing to me. **** really is gonna change the world.

*Forgot to add, not that it matters but that’s Gary Gensler, the chairman of the SEC teaching the course. Lol

 

[stuntman mike]

HFSP

this dude...

 

[mplsdunk]

I didn’t even catch that

btw... amp bois.

 

[jjs]

It’s hot in here

 

[stuntman mike]

ha! i bought most of my AMP around .05 so i’m still down on that but polygon is carrying my whole portfolio through this crabwalk. it’s all good and super interesting. my $40 doge is now $50 so basically imma get my crickets for free when i buy them tomorrow using flexa/SPEDN. gotta transfer it before i head to petco.

 

[mplsdunk]

I’m down on my amp too but I’m up on hope!

all my other coins are chillin though.