Official DragonBall Z Thread. R.I.P Akira Toriyama. You will be missed

danikerhino said:
Definitely fan-service. I'm cool with the old characters, but they should be no where near the levels of Goku and Vegeta. At least let them train with Whis or Beerus for while. The ***** Krillin keeping up with Goku is ****ing insulting to my brain, even base Goku should be multitudes higher than him.
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might be my own head canon but I took that episode with krillin as not him keeping up with goku but just them showing that despite being weaker than goku and everyone else, he brought something other than strength to the tournament of power. They went out of their a few times in that episode to point out how weak krillin was lol he was trembling before and after the kamehameha exchange.

Excluding the latest movie, I don’t personally have much issue with the folks that scale relative goku and vegeta. We already know that writing isn’t the best but Android 17 being as strong as he is probably the most head scratching one. He was atleast as strong as golden freiza in the tournament of power just by being a park ranger and goku hasn’t met him up until that point lol but I do like 17s character a lot so it almost makes up for it
 
frenchbreadbuilds said:
might be my own head canon but I took that episode with krillin as not him keeping up with goku but just them showing that despite being weaker than goku and everyone else, he brought something other than strength to the tournament of power. They went out of their a few times in that episode to point out how weak krillin was lol he was trembling before and after the kamehameha exchange.

Excluding the latest movie, I don’t personally have much issue with the folks that scale relative goku and vegeta. We already know that writing isn’t the best but Android 17 being as strong as he is probably the most head scratching one. He was atleast as strong as golden freiza in the tournament of power just by being a park ranger and goku hasn’t met him up until that point lol but I do like 17s character a lot so it almost makes up for it
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Based on where DBZ left off, Killin should be a termite compared Goku with no chance to measure up to him in any way especially with SSB included. But I just turned off my brain and started watching the Tournament Arc for the entertainment value.
 
danikerhino said:
Based on where DBZ left off, Killin should be a termite compared Goku with no chance to measure up to him in any way especially with SSB included. But I just turned off my brain and started watching the Tournament Arc for the entertainment value.
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He still is a termite to goku. Goku choosing not to vaporize him doesn’t mean krillin is measuring up, just means goku was holding back which is something he does all the time. I understand the criticism though. As someone who looks wayyyy to deeply into dragon ball super I think that’s the match up people are making way more out of it than what it actually happened.
 
Most of those fights weren’t serious except for maybe the Android 17 and Frieza.

Even then…we know Goku was the strongest. Followed by Vegeta.

There’s nothing wrong with the Z fighters making appearances. It’s actually odd they don’t. Piccolo, Gohan, Goten and Trunks can improve. Krillin is still a smart dude and can be a companion.
 
spiderjericho said:
Most of those fights weren’t serious except for maybe the Android 17 and Frieza.

Even then…we know Goku was the strongest. Followed by Vegeta.

There’s nothing wrong with the Z fighters making appearances. It’s actually odd they don’t. Piccolo, Gohan, Goten and Trunks can improve. Krillin is still a smart dude and can be a companion.
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I don't have a problem with them making appearances. I just don't get how they've gain this much power when they were essentially useless from the Android Saga on up. I guess the big problem is how this battles are depicted since they all look similar no matter how powerful a character is, the only thing that changes is the color of the blasts.
 
Most of those dudes are life-long martial artists. Kicks and punches are kicks and punches. It’s really techniques and power that are the factors now.

It’s really the depiction that only Vegeta or Goku are serious about martial arts or improving that is the issue. Flies in the face of the past.
 
spiderjericho said:
Most of those dudes are life-long martial artists. Kicks and punches are kicks and punches. It’s really techniques and power that are the factors now.

It’s really the depiction that only Vegeta or Goku are serious about martial arts or improving that is the issue. Flies in the face of the past.
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It’s kinda why I like 17 so much. I think his power up is kinda out of left field but dude is a powerhouse in universe 6 and he knows it. He’s got a family just like everyone else but it didn’t let that make him weaker.

And outside of 17, frieza, gohan, and possibly gotenks if they every really flush him out more, everyone else is kinda naturally capped due to limitations already set fourth by the story. Piccolo and majin buu are the latest to sorta break that via training/wish
 
floodarea said:
super is ***

don’t try to rationalize anything you see in there with headcanons bc i promise i toei wasn’t trying to imply what you were thinking :lol:
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At this point, I'm just going to throw any power level reasoning out of the window and just enjoy the light show. The new characters are solid and the power depiction of Jiren is on point, him, Kale, and Hit actually feel next level while SSB is indistinguishable from SS in most fights.
 
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Just finished the "Tournament of Power" arc. That **** was amazing.
clapping-clapping-hands.gif
 
Goku/Gohan would’ve been lit.

But I’m sure there’s a “reason” those two were there at the end.

Also smh…why no one run and get 17 for Super Hero?
 
floodarea said:
that goku/frieza team-up still so trash to me

should’ve been goku/vegeta or even goku/gohan
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I really didn't understand what they were doing there.

I was like they really gonna have Frieza face turn? DBZ did this with damn near every antagonist turned ally but killed or skipped certain ppl (Raditz, Nappa, Frieza, Cell). So Super was weird having Frieza go down this path even for a little bit. The relationship after was still weird. They either should've kept him dead or power him up for later instead of Goku not even thinking of him as a real threat.
 
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Master Zik said:
I really didn't understand what they were doing there.

I was like they really gonna have Frieza face turn? DBZ did this with damn near every antagonist turned ally but killed or skipped certain ppl (Raditz, Nappa, Frieza, Cell). So Super was weird having Frieza go down this path even for a little bit. The relationship after was still weird. They either should be kept him dead or power him up for later instead of Goku not even thinking of him as a real threat.
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It would have been more on character for him to try play either 17 or Goku instead of his sacrifice, but still a solid fight as a whole.
 
Master Zik said:
I really didn't understand what they were doing there.

I was like they really gonna have Frieza face turn? DBZ did this with damn near every antagonist turned ally but killed or skipped certain ppl (Raditz, Nappa, Frieza, Cell). So Super was weird having Frieza go down this path even for a little bit. The relationship after was still weird. They either should be kept him dead or power him up for later instead of Goku not even thinking of him as a real threat.
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my point exactly

the way frieza was used in super as a whole never serviced the narrative or his character one time

just an easy way for fans to get excited and move merch so they brought him back

dude used to be seen as one of the best, most ruthless and evil antagonists in shonen

now he’s a joke character
 
Master Zik said:
I really didn't understand what they were doing there.

I was like they really gonna have Frieza face turn? DBZ did this with damn near every antagonist turned ally but killed or skipped certain ppl (Raditz, Nappa, Frieza, Cell). So Super was weird having Frieza go down this path even for a little bit. The relationship after was still weird. They either should've kept him dead or power him up for later instead of Goku not even thinking of him as a real threat.
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They did it to show that even Frieza understood that was the only way to beat jiren as it was only him and goku that were strong Enough to actually Physically ring out Jiren (17 was only able to provide ranged support). So jiren was so much of a threat it took two people that constantly try to kill each other to work together. I actually liked that they did this . Frieza is still a *** and they did just massively power him up so we’ll see how this goes.

B.
 
floodarea said:
that goku/frieza team-up still so trash to me

should’ve been goku/vegeta or even goku/gohan
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I really didn't understand what they were doing there.

I was like they really gonna have Frieza face turn? DBZ did this with damn near every antagonist turned ally but killed or skipped certain ppl (Raditz, Nappa, Frieza, Cell). So Super was weird having Frieza go down this path even for a little bit. The relationship after was still weird. They either should be kept him dead or power him up for later instead of Goku not even thinking of him as a real threat.
thepromisedland said:
They did it to show that even Frieza understood that was the only way to beat jiren as it was only him and goku that were strong Enough to actually Physically ring out Jiren (17 was only able to provide ranged support). So jiren was so much of a threat it took two people that constantly try to kill each other to work together. I actually liked that they did this . Frieza is still a *** and they did just massively power him up so we’ll see how this goes.

B.
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It'd be one thing if he fought with them but it was a straight up team up. I get the reasoning but the way Go my treats Frieza ever since then is like a little nuisance that'll easily be beat and any damage or death will be undone by dragonballs.

Just feels like they should've kept him dead or not bring him back after Resurrection F unless you were gonna use him for a big arc as the antagonist.

If not that they needed to go through a whole cycle of bringing back past villains like Cell and even kid Buu so the way Frieza is treated isn't so obvious.
 
Master Zik said:
I really didn't understand what they were doing there.

I was like they really gonna have Frieza face turn? DBZ did this with damn near every antagonist turned ally but killed or skipped certain ppl (Raditz, Nappa, Frieza, Cell). So Super was weird having Frieza go down this path even for a little bit. The relationship after was still weird. They either should be kept him dead or power him up for later instead of Goku not even thinking of him as a real threat.

It'd be one thing if he fought with them but it was a straight up team up. I get the reasoning but the way Go my treats Frieza ever since then is like a little nuisance that'll easily be beat and any damage or death will be undone by dragonballs.

Just feels like they should've kept him dead or not bring him back after Resurrection F unless you were gonna use him for a big arc as the antagonist.

If not that they needed to go through a whole cycle of bringing back past villains like Cell and even kid Buu so the way Frieza is treated isn't so obvious.
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Well They always had Frieza in check up until recently. Now he’s an actual threat to them which means he most likely will be a future antagonist. It just looks like he got little boyed because of how easy it was for goku/vegeta to be him but we gotta remember after them (at the point in time broly wasn’t known about) no one can beat him.
 
Am i the only one disappointed with the TOP arc? So many scenarios/fights and team ups that they didnt capitalised… it was goku and U7 really doing all the work.. HIT VS jiren shouldve been 2 episodes at least.
 
Yeah…..they could’ve drawn it out more. Rang even more juice since it was going to go on hiatus.

We act like there weren’t real consequences or stakes for U7 losing. Your universe gets erased.

It’s not like Frieza wasn’t a deustch up until that point. Betraying Frost. The Hakai thing. Fighting Goku.

Afterwards, we had the Broly movie. He clearly wanted Broly to exterminate the Goku/Vegeta. He killed Brody’s dad.

And now we have his latest incarnation.
 
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