Official NBA Off-Season Thread. New 2012-2013 Thread Has Been Made. Please Post In There

[essential1]

You could argue JJ as top 3 SG... You can argue Brook being no.5 center

 

[MajinZuub]

Manu is better than Joe Johnson.

 

[Bert.]

screw Dwight Howard, Nets have a really nice team IMO

Deron
Johnson
Wallace
Humphries
Lopez

Brooks
Green
possibly Kidd

i fail to see a problem. from 70 losses to this, meh. they are better than the Knicks

 

[diew its james]

JJ is either 4 or 5th best sg in the league at the moment

 

[hankmoody]

Some reading on the trade:

http://nba-point-forward....son-dwight-howard-trade/
http://www.cbssports.com/...-nets-new-big-3-stack-up

Hollinger has tweeted that his take will be up soon. TIA...

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

We're talking about the same Kobe that flat out quit on a team in Game 7 of a playoff series, right?

Did Kobe ever say "Yeah I quit in game 7"?

I completely forgot Dirk said that. Son is a joke.

Originally Posted by tyisny

Billy King is an $#!

He traded a #6 pick mid season for F'n Gerald Wallace, Turns around and gives him 10 mil a year, & has traded for Joe Johnson........... SABOTAGE

Sabotage from within

That Dwight Opt-in and 40 mil to Wallace will be the most perplexing NBA moves of the year for me. Can't see anything topping those dumb decisions.

Also I don't want to hear anybody calling that a BK Big 

 

[buc em]

So a 35 year old coming off a season in which he averaged 12 points a game and a guy who hasn't played a full season his whole career and is coming off a season in which he played 9 games are better than Joe Johnson...making him the 5th best SG in the league. Ok. You proved me wrong.

 

[N41D]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

We're talking about the same Kobe that flat out quit on a team in Game 7 of a playoff series, right?

Did Kobe ever say "Yeah I quit in game 7"?

Did he need to? Everybody saw it. 

 

[Bert.]

Originally Posted by Buc Em

So a 35 year old coming off a season in which he averaged 12 points a game and a guy who hasn't played a full season his whole career and is coming off a season in which he played 9 games are better than Joe Johnson...making him the 5th best SG in the league. Ok. You proved me wrong.

Manu is no longer a great SG, sorry to bust anyones bubble.

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

We're talking about the same Kobe that flat out quit on a team in Game 7 of a playoff series, right?

Did Kobe ever say "Yeah I quit in game 7"?

Did he need to? Everybody saw it. 

There's a huge difference in saying you quit and appearing too. It matters and it really does separate what kind of players we're talking about.

I don't even know how you can be off looking for a comparison when Dirk opened his mouth and said something like that in the middle of the season.

 

[patentboy23]

Originally Posted by HankMoody

Originally Posted by MMG

Originally Posted by Buc Em

Damn when did I miss Joe Johnson and Gerald Wallace turn into bums? Joe Johnson is the third best SG in the league and has been an All Star for like 5-6 straight years, Wallace is an awesome 4th/5th option that will play his #%+ off, Deron Williams is a top 3 point guard in the league, Lopez is a top 5 center and Humphries is one of the best rebounders in the league. @%$% a contract, the Nets just got really good regardless of if they get Dwight. The Heat can't add a damn thing besides minimum salary guys for as long as they keep their big three together and the Knicks are in the same boat with Melo and Amare's awful contract. The hate is strong.

I don't know about all these individual rankings but I like what I see with Deron running the show. This team can score with the best of 'em. Defense is the obvious question mark. Rebounding should be ok, maybe above average. I think this could be a 50 win team. The Hawks, a team another user compared talent-wise to the potential 12-13 Nets, went 53-29 in 09-10. And I think this team is better than the Hawks because of D-Will. If the Nets keep DWill, Humphries and possible add another piece with the MLE, I think that's a reasonable goal. I like Deron Williams as much as any PG not named Chris Paul and this will be his most talented team. 

That's pretty spot on.  The Nets become pretty deep if they land Deron and have Kidd backing him up. Joe J is def. a top 5 SG although he doesn't dominate like most #1 options. He needs to play with a game changer and ball dominant player like Deron; I could see Joe playing better as a #2 option with another elite scorer.   Props to the Hawk's GM, Ferry? 

  Trading away weak @!* Marvin for Devin Harris 

  Hawks finally have a solid PG and get rid of Joe's overpaid @!* contract 

  I hope the Eastern Conference becomes deeper 

.  Never on the West's level though 

 

[scientific method]

James Harden is better than Joe Johnson. And if he leaves OKC next offseason for a max deal to be the alpha dog on a team, could be destined for the same career arch.

 

[metrokid26]

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

We're talking about the same Kobe that flat out quit on a team in Game 7 of a playoff series, right?

Which one was that?

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by Zyzz

Originally Posted by Buc Em

So a 35 year old coming off a season in which he averaged 12 points a game and a guy who hasn't played a full season his whole career and is coming off a season in which he played 9 games are better than Joe Johnson...making him the 5th best SG in the league. Ok. You proved me wrong.

Manu is no longer a great SG, sorry to bust anyones bubble.

LOL. No offense, but you know nothing about basketball if you believe this. Easily better and more effective than the likes of Joe Johnson. Gotta love the profound basketball analysis. 12 POINTS PER GAME??? GARBAGE!!! 

 

[Bert.]

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by Zyzz

Originally Posted by Buc Em

So a 35 year old coming off a season in which he averaged 12 points a game and a guy who hasn't played a full season his whole career and is coming off a season in which he played 9 games are better than Joe Johnson...making him the 5th best SG in the league. Ok. You proved me wrong.

Manu is no longer a great SG, sorry to bust anyones bubble.

LOL. No offense, but you know nothing about basketball if you believe this. Easily better and more effective than the likes of Joe Johnson. Gotta love the profound basketball analysis. 12 POINTS PER GAME??? GARBAGE!!! 

hes good but not as great as some of you are making him out to be. sorry brah,

5 years ago, sure.

 

[bhzmafia14]

Sooooooooooooo, what happens to Dallas and all of their cap space? 

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

So the guy who says "I lost the drive to compete because I didn't take enough time to party it up" is just as competitive as anyone in the league. Anyone else would have got murdered by ESPN but for some reason the media let's this guy and Big Ben slide. I can't quote it on my phone but just look it up. I'm done talking about Dirk.

I think guys like Humphries, Marshon, and Gerald Green are heavily underrated. I really don't think Marshon is gonna get his chance to shine with that lineup but that doesn't take away from his talent.

 

[pmatic]

Hollinger on the Hawks:

Soaring stock in Atlanta

We knew when the Atlanta Hawks hired Danny Ferry as their general manager that it would mark a wholesale change in the way this franchise did business, but nobody expected the change to be this drastic, this fast.

With two landmark moves in a period of hours today that wiped nearly $90 million off the payroll, the Hawks went from a franchise that considered losing in the second round of the playoffs to be the pinnacle of human achievement to being one that could matter -- I mean really, truly matter -- for the first time since Dominique Wilkins was making nightly highlight films.

For those who just crawled out from under a rock, the Hawks first sent Joe Johnson to New Jersey for the expiring contracts of Jordan Farmar, Johan Petro, Jordan Williams Anthony Morrow and DeShawn Stevenson (who will have a non-guaranteed multi-year deal, per sign-and-trade rule requirements, but is effectively an expiring contract). The Hawks then traded Marvin Williams to Utah for the expiring contract of Devin Harris. Farmar will be bought out for $1.5 million, Harris may be re-routed someplace else, and Petro will be given Pape Sy's former jersey just to see if anyone can tell the difference.

That's the summary, but let's zoom out to the big picture. I'm not sure anybody has put together all the dots on this, but consider the following:

• Josh Smith is from Atlanta.

• Dwight Howard is from Atlanta.

• Dwight Howard and Josh Smith played together in high school and remain friends; in fact Howard was the best man in Smith's wedding.

• Chris Paul is not from Atlanta, but is from North Carolina and wanted to play in Atlanta coming out of college.

• Chris Paul, Dwight Howard and Josh Smith all will be free agents this summer.

• Dwight Howard's main target in 2013 free agency, Brooklyn, just used up all it potential cap space in Monday's trade with Atlanta.

• Atlanta now has only two players under contract for next season, center Al Horford and first-round pick John Jenkins, and will have well north of $40 milion in cap room.

• Atlanta could rather easily trade Horford, an All-Star center with a below-market contract, to create more room if needed.

Yes, this is the real endgame for Atlanta: Not just Howard, but Howard and CP3. The Hawks are now in position to do it, and can get to that point in several different ways.

It's just an idea right now, but it's an unbelievable, transformative idea. Twenty-four hours ago everybody looked at this franchise and wondered if they could eke out another second-round playoff berth before Johnson's contract swallowed them whole. Now the questions are regarding whether Atlanta could get good wing players to pair up with their three stars.

I can't overstate how huge it would be for this franchise in particular, one that has foundered locally with poor attendance and embarrassing TV ratings, symbolized by the poor PA announcer begging somebody, anybody, to cheer during sparsely attended January weekday games ... or, for that matter, playoff games.

This would finally, after four decades of being an afterthought in this sports market -- four decades in which the Hawks have yet to make an Eastern Conference finals -- establish Atlanta as a place that mattered, a Hawks game as a worthwhile diversion, and perhaps, this franchise as something more than an occasional diversion from college football.

Unbelievably, they can now get there. The most obvious way is to wait until 2013. Atlanta can sign Paul and Howard to max contracts next summer, re-sign Smith for roughly the same money he makes now (which would trump any other offer he'd likely get since the Hawks can give him a five-year deal), and likely juuuuuust squeeze in under the current cap.

The Hawks can get there in other ways too, however. Consider the fact that if Orlando decides to deal Howard sooner rather than later, Atlanta's likely offer of Horford, Teague, Jenkins and/or draft picks is likely to be as good or better than anything anybody else offers. (This, obviously, is pending whether Houston is willing to truly throw in the kitchen sink on a Howard rental).

Such a move would give Atlanta zero contracts on their books besides Howard's heading into the 2013-14 offseason; again, they could sign Paul into their cap space, re-up Smith and be on their way. Alternatively, they could make a similar offer for Paul via trade, sign Howard in free agency, and be on their way.

The wild card in all this, obviously, is whether Atlanta is still on "The List" for either of these players, or for Smith for that matter, who had been angling for a trade. But Smith's gripe was never with his hometown, but rather with the fact that the Hawks never seemed committed to winning. It's a lot tougher to make that argument if they go out and get Howard and Paul.

Similarly, Atlanta becomes a lot more attractive for Howard if it seems ready to commit to building a long-term winner, and has a GM who can do something more than shoot money out a firehouse. And more attractive to CP3, obviously, if Howard and Smith are there too, and the team isn't owned by Donald Sterling.

It's a perfect storm, in other words, and one has to presume that Ferry didn't start down this road without at least a wink and a nod that this might be doable.

As for New Jersey, this is what happens when you're desperate. I've killed them for other reckless moves, but this one actually wasn't that terrible. They replaced one year of $14 million of flotsam with one year of a $20 million Joe Johnson, and then signed Joe Johnson to a three-year, $69 million deal on top of that. Not ideal, perhaps, but again they're desperate to have a compelling product for their relocation to Brooklyn. (And trust me as a Jersey boy, this is a relocation. People in New Jersey only vaguely know where Brooklyn is; forget about actually going there).

The Nets cover themselves with a go-to option in Johnson if Deron Williams leaves, give themselves a very good spot-up shooter and secondary scorer if Williams goes, and give themselves a great shot at being a top-four seed in the East. Brooklyn's starting lineup will be among the best in basketball, presuming it re-signs Kris Humphries and Brook Lopez, and a bench (speculatively) of Jason Kidd, Mirza Teletovic and MarShon Brooks will at least be respectable in the backcourt. A lack of frontcourt depth and porous defense will keep them from contending for anything important, but they'll be entertaining enough to put fannies in seats, and that was the idea.

However, Utah baffles me. The Jazz just took on an extra year of Marvin Williams at $7.5 million, and I have no idea why. While Williams isn't a bad player, he's not worth this amount and he does little to solve Utah's twin needs of perimeter shooting and real backcourt players. While the Jazz have a ton of cap room in 2013-14, Williams eats into it, and that paper cap room is going to disappear in a hurry if Utah tries to retain any of its own free agents -- such as Al Jefferson, Paul Millsap or Mo Williams.

The fact they just handed Danny Ferry a free pass to potential world domination -- and, ironically, paved the path to their getting Paul with a trade of Williams, the man Atlanta took instead of him in the 2005 draft -- is another reason to question this deal; at the least they should be getting a first-round pick for their trouble.

 

[dmbrhs]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Did Kobe ever say "Yeah I quit in game 7"?

Did he need to? Everybody saw it. 

There's a huge difference in saying you quit and appearing too. It matters and it really does separate what kind of players we're talking about.

I don't even know how you can be off looking for a comparison when Dirk opened his mouth and said something like that in the middle of the season.

So now players have to declare they quit to make it official? You guys are too much.

 

[scientific method]

Marshon Brooks... I don't see it, east coast version of Roddy "Buckets" Beaubois

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by Zyzz

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by Zyzz

Manu is no longer a great SG, sorry to bust anyones bubble.

LOL. No offense, but you know nothing about basketball if you believe this. Easily better and more effective than the likes of Joe Johnson. Gotta love the profound basketball analysis. 12 POINTS PER GAME??? GARBAGE!!! 

hes good but not as great as some of you are making him out to be. sorry brah,

5 years ago, sure. 

I'm making him out to be the third best SG in the league. If you disagree, share the names. Joe Johnson literally does nothing on a basketball court better than Manu. And that includes scoring. Manu has taken 10 shots to get his 15 PPG career average whilst contributing in every area of the game, while Joe has taken 15 to get his 17 PPG and not much else. 

 

[trynafeelmink]

Originally Posted by HankMoody

Originally Posted by MMG

Originally Posted by Buc Em

Damn when did I miss Joe Johnson and Gerald Wallace turn into bums? Joe Johnson is the third best SG in the league and has been an All Star for like 5-6 straight years, Wallace is an awesome 4th/5th option that will play his #%+ off, Deron Williams is a top 3 point guard in the league, Lopez is a top 5 center and Humphries is one of the best rebounders in the league. @%$% a contract, the Nets just got really good regardless of if they get Dwight. The Heat can't add a damn thing besides minimum salary guys for as long as they keep their big three together and the Knicks are in the same boat with Melo and Amare's awful contract. The hate is strong.

I don't know about all these individual rankings but I like what I see with Deron running the show. This team can score with the best of 'em. Defense is the obvious question mark. Rebounding should be ok, maybe above average. I think this could be a 50 win team. The Hawks, a team another user compared talent-wise to the potential 12-13 Nets, went 53-29 in 09-10. And I think this team is better than the Hawks because of D-Will. If the Nets keep DWill, Humphries and possible add another piece with the MLE, I think that's a reasonable goal. I like Deron Williams as much as any PG not named Chris Paul and this will be his most talented team. 

Why would you spend all that money and time investing into a new franchise only to have it become the Hawks who havent surpassed the second round. The Heat. Knicks, Bulls, Pacers, & Celtics (If staying together) are all better if not side by side with this squad

 

[pmatic]

Ya'll can't even wait until team can officially sign players, much less the end of the summer to rank teams?

 

[coldcity]

Marc Stein: Just going online and on SportsCenter: Hawks have agreed in principle to deal Marvin Williams to Utah for Devin Harris to shed even more $ Twitter

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by dmbrhs

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

Did he need to? Everybody saw it. 

There's a huge difference in saying you quit and appearing too. It matters and it really does separate what kind of players we're talking about.

I don't even know how you can be off looking for a comparison when Dirk opened his mouth and said something like that in the middle of the season.

So now players have to declare they quit to make it official? You guys are too much.

Yes, basically.

You can say Bron "quit" last year in the finals or back against Detroit but it's a whole different scenario once he cosigns it. Doing that is pretty pathetic as far as a player that competes in the NBA. This aint on the level of all teams giving it their all ever game of the season. This is a dude saying he was not motivated enough to help his team be competitive.