***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[RustyShackleford]

Mick Mulvaney should really set this ***** off by calling a press conference and being like "Told you so"

Just escalated this whole situation past peak, and right to infinite buffoonery. I'm ready.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Get over it.

 

[Belgium]

It appears the floodgates are opening

 

[Sharpshoeter13]

Some people really get their news from these people

and some of those people defend Trump til their heads explode like he cares about them

 

[RustyShackleford]

Oh, they snitchin snitchin now.

They probably playing this at Coal Gang HQ right now...

 

[Belgium]

WaPo obtained Taylor's full opening statement:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/cont...-taylor/6b3a6edf-f976-4081-ba7f-bce45468a3ff/

PDF link:
https://games-cdn.washingtonpost.co...note/75965f57-6561-42f8-af40-a9e984a85660.pdf

I would highly recommend reading it all the way through.
Statement confirms that all relevant agencies unanimously agreed at the time that there shouldn't be a hold on the military funds. At one point during the hold, the DoD was asked to come up with an analysis of the effectiveness of the military aid and promptly returned with an affirmitive determination within one day.
Secretaries of State and Defense, CIA director Haspel and NSA Bolton sought a joint meeting with Trump to convince him to lift the hold but scheduling difficulties complicated the effort.
The hold remained until September, after the WH had been informed of the whistleblower complaint.


Statement also confirms the testimony of Fiona Hill, Trump's former Russia adviser. These crooks found a way to make Bolton look like the good guy.

According to the statement, Zelensky's top national security advisers expressed concern to Taylor that Zelensky did not want to be used as a pawn in Trump's re-election campaign.
He was fired by Zelensky at the end of September.


State Dept Counsl Brechbuhl told Taylor that "[Trump] doesn't want to provide any assistance at all."
There is virtually unanimous bipartisan support for aid to Ukraine to deter Russian aggression. WaPo reported yesterday that Putin and Orban helped sour Trump's view on Ukraine and that WH officials were struggling to push back against their respective influence.
The securitiy assistance had also been congressionally approved, thus mandating Trump to provide it.
Taylor prepared to resign after his conversation with Brechbuhl.

Fiona Hill's replacement, Mr. Morrison, can also corroborate Taylor's testimony about the quid pro quo.

It was the call with Mr. Morrison that prompted Bill Tayor to establish a written record in his texts to Sondland.

On September 2, Taylor briefed Zelensky's head of national security on the conversation with Sondland about the military aid. As mentioned earlier, Danyliuk was fired by Zelensky later in September.
Danyliuk initially sought a meeting with Morrison because no US officials could give him a straight answer on why there was a hold on the security aid. According to the statement, Ukrainians learned of the hold on August 29 via a Politico article.

"The official foreign policy of the United States was undercut by the irregular efforts led by Mr. Giuliani."
According to Mr. Morrison, Trump told Sondland that he was not asking for a "quid pro quo" but then proceeded to explicitly insist a quid pro quo, just without using those specific words.
"President Trump did insist that President Zelensky go to a microphone and say he is opening investigations of Biden and 2016 election interference."
Mr. Morrison then told John Bolton and National Security Council lawyers about the phonecall between Trump and Sondland.

Sondland: 'President Trump is a businessman. When a businessman is about to sign a check to someone who owes him something, the businessman asks that person to pay up before signing the check.
Taylor learned that the hold on the aid was lifted on September 11. Note that this was after the WH had learned of the whistleblower complaint.

Sondland and Volker reportedly claimed in their sworn testimony that they were unaware that the "investigations" and/or "Burisma" had to do with Biden. They supposedly only learned later on.
It is pretty obvious to anyone with a brain that they were blatantly lying in that case but that seems even more obvious now after the conversations described by Taylor and Mr. Morrison.

 

[IATT]

 

[elpablo21]

Anonymous and their book can kick rocks

 

[harlemtothebronx]

WaPo obtained Taylor's full opening statement:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/cont...-taylor/6b3a6edf-f976-4081-ba7f-bce45468a3ff/

PDF link:
https://games-cdn.washingtonpost.co...note/75965f57-6561-42f8-af40-a9e984a85660.pdf

I would highly recommend reading it all the way through.
Statement confirms that all relevant agencies unanimously agreed at the time that there shouldn't be a hold on the military funds. At one point during the hold, the DoD was asked to come up with an analysis of the effectiveness of the military aid and promptly returned with an affirmitive determination within one day.
Secretaries of State and Defense, CIA director Haspel and NSA Bolton sought a joint meeting with Trump to convince him to lift the hold but scheduling difficulties complicated the effort.
The hold remained until September, after the WH had been informed of the whistleblower complaint.


Statement also confirms the testimony of Fiona Hill, Trump's former Russia adviser. These crooks found a way to make Bolton look like the good guy.

According to the statement, Zelensky's top national security advisers expressed concern to Taylor that Zelensky did not want to be used as a pawn in Trump's re-election campaign.
He was fired by Zelensky at the end of September.


State Dept Counsl Brechbuhl told Taylor that "[Trump] doesn't want to provide any assistance at all."
There is virtually unanimous bipartisan support for aid to Ukraine to deter Russian aggression. WaPo reported yesterday that Putin and Orban helped sour Trump's view on Ukraine and that WH officials were struggling to push back against their respective influence.
The securitiy assistance had also been congressionally approved, thus mandating Trump to provide it.
Taylor prepared to resign after his conversation with Brechbuhl.

Fiona Hill's replacement, Mr. Morrison, can also corroborate Taylor's testimony about the quid pro quo.

It was the call with Mr. Morrison that prompted Bill Tayor to establish a written record in his texts to Sondland.

On September 2, Taylor briefed Zelensky's head of national security on the conversation with Sondland about the military aid. As mentioned earlier, Danyliuk was fired by Zelensky later in September.
Danyliuk initially sought a meeting with Morrison because no US officials could give him a straight answer on why there was a hold on the security aid. According to the statement, Ukrainians learned of the hold on August 29 via a Politico article.

"The official foreign policy of the United States was undercut by the irregular efforts led by Mr. Giuliani."
According to Mr. Morrison, Trump told Sondland that he was not asking for a "quid pro quo" but then proceeded to explicitly insist a quid pro quo, just without using those specific words.
"President Trump did insist that President Zelensky go to a microphone and say he is opening investigations of Biden and 2016 election interference."
Mr. Morrison then told John Bolton and National Security Council lawyers about the phonecall between Trump and Sondland.

Not completely sure of your background, but you ever consider getting into journalism?

 

[Belgium]

Not completely sure of your background, but you ever consider getting into journalism?

Not at all actually.

 

[Belgium]

Anonymous and their book can kick rocks

That anonymous person is a clown of the highest degree. If I recall correctly, the op-ed said that he/she actively subverted the president's directives. Either you follow the orders, provided they're not illegal, or you file some kind of complaint, contact Congress, and/or resign.
Officials aren't supposed to just disregard and sabotage orders from superiors.

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

 

[aepps20]

Libs focused on da technical term lynching instead of the means of da term. Our PRESIDENT ELECT is being treated very unfairly by Libs, Soy Bois, Broke Bois and Remainers.

 

[ajiiiplatinum]

I dont know why I always get baited by the same Bernie haters in here.
Their anti Bernie buffonery though is just so outlandish.


-We live in a two party system so like it or not everyone if they want to win has to run in one of the two parties
- Once you run with a party you dont owe them your soul. They are providing you a platform and adding you to a ticket. You do not have to agree with everything the party wants. Have any of you ever been on a campaign or worked for an elected official? A democrat congressman in Arkansas does not have to vote the same way as a democrat congressman in our People's Republic of California.
-With that said Bernie can vote however he wants. That is why people like him. He votes for what he thinks is right not what DC democrats say.
-Howard Dean? That dude is an establishment Dem. The establishment does not want to change. They want to keep power and not rustle any feathers. I would be pissed too if the super delegates had already committed to Hillary even before votes were cast. I understand the rules allow it but given the popularity of Sanders you would think they would have waited to see how the delegates were voting. Anyway, I would take anything Dean or debbie wasserman shultz say with a grain of salt. They too should ride into the sunset.
-Regardless of party, race, religion or ethnicity it is evident that people are tired of do nothing Democrats and Republicans. Republicans given their lack of education are fine burning the place down but Democrats have hope for change...but it needs to be clearly defined and radical (by centrist dems standards). I am not saying I personally feel that way but am merely trying to explain why there is so much hate for the Clintons and even some for the Bush dynasty in both parties.
-Dont believe me though...believe the young democrats who are in the party and having to fight it to create change and reforms. The party would rather have 30 year term members who are out of touch but vote party line than 20 year olds who ask questions and offer new and bold policies.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Yes as always, you, other Bernie supporters, and Bernie, are the real victims here.

 

[-Red-]

Nah, he was a sore loser. He was a good actor in campaigning for Clinton, but famb stayed in the race way longer than he had a chance. Downplayed how bad he got his *** handed to him by Hillary in delegates. Was delusional about his chances for a comeback. Even Obama had to tell him c'mon, when they met. Hell he suggested super delegates should steal the win for him.

And he said **** like Southern States that Clinton won should have less say in the process. Which was a huge racial dog whistle.

Then in the months following the election he threw the Dems and Clinton under the bus with hot takes about the Dems not connecting with the white working class and saying all Trump voters are not racist.

I mean he did the right thing in the end, but he kinda acted like a sucka too.

Yes, he stayed in the race even when he didn't have a chance to win. But as I've stated in here before, I disagree that that means he was wrong to have done so, particularly since his campaign was an unprecedented opportunity to spread a message that hadn't been articulated by a major presidential candidate in decades.

With respect to the Southern states comments, as far as I can tell, 9 of the first 16 primary states (excluding a few U.S. territories) are in the South. The South as a whole only has, at most, 16 states. So within the first third of primaries, the South had 56% representation when they only constitute, at most, one-third of the country. Within that context, these were Sanders's comments (maybe there were others, feel free to point them out if so):

"People say, 'Why does Iowa go first, why does New Hampshire go first?' but I think that having so many Southern states go first kind of distorts reality as well."

"Look, let me acknowledge what is absolutely true. Secretary Clinton cleaned our clock in the Deep South. No question about it. We got murdered there. That is the most conservative part of this great country. That’s the fact."

"She creamed us in Mississippi and Louisiana and South Carolina," he said, before adding that Democrats are "not going to win those states in the general election." (I can't find the full text of this quote, unfortunately)

I don't see anything wrong with the first two quotes. Those are facts that are sensible to highlight within the context of a political campaign in which they are relevant. And I agree that the entire primary process is problematic, which Bernie was pointing out (notice he said "as well" in that first quote). The third quote I take issue with because the insinuation is that the Democratic voters in those states don't really matter, and that's ********. I mean, Bernie won a bunch of red states in the primary but didn't belittle his own wins in those places just because he wouldn't have carried them in the general. And in those states that he handwaved, the majority of Democratic primary voters I would assume are black. So it's a problem on principle and there's another layer to it given the demographics at play. While I disagree that those comments amount to a racial dog whistle, I still find them problematic nonetheless for those reasons.

I agree with you completely about the insinuations that the super-delegates could steal the nomination for him. This was a rhetorical reversal of course in his campaign, which began with (justifiably) making the case that the use of unelected super-delegates is undemocratic. That reversal is unjustifiable, period.

So overall, I agree with you that Bernie "kinda acted like a sucka" in some ways back in 2016.

 

[ajiiiplatinum]

Yes as always, you, other Bernie supporters, and Bernie, are the real victims here.

I don't feel like a victim at all.
I just don't think your biased assessments are accurate.

 

[Belgium]

Bill Taylor also reportedly brought receipts in the form of contemporaneous notes.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I don't feel like a victim at all.
I just don't think your biased assessments are accurate.

How are my assessments biased?

 

[noskey]

How are my assessments biased?

You're a lib.

 

[Brownstone]

Bet money this gives Gabbard a boost in the polls.

people don’t like HRC. The only people defendingher actions are die hard supporters who think she lost because some Facebook ads.

Hillary Clinton's Favorable Rating Still Low

Hillary Clinton's image has not improved since hitting a personal low of 36% late last year. Clinton's favorable rating is 7 points lower than where it was on the eve of the 2016 election.

news.gallup.com

I personally feels she gets a bad rap and nowhere near as ****ty as she is portrayed.

but polls are polls, and trump currently has a higher favorable rating than HRC

I was thinking more longterm but you are absolutely right. One thing people unite on is vitriol for HC.

 

[RustyShackleford]

You're a lib.

This post is masterful because I knew this would be the joke coal Gang hits me with, but it is also could be the serious answer dude might give.

 

[ajiiiplatinum]

On a lighter note

Bernie is Back
I am glad he didn't let a couple of NIkeTalker comments get him down lol

Poll: Biden holds 2 point lead over Sanders nationally

Former Vice President Joe Biden holds a slim 2-point lead over his closest competitor in the Democratic primary field, according to a poll released Tuesday.An Emerson poll conducted Oct. 18–21…

thehill.com

Former Vice President Joe Biden holds a slim 2-point lead over his closest competitor in the Democratic primary field, according to a poll released Tuesday.
An Emerson poll conducted Oct. 18–21 found Biden in the lead with the support of 27 percent of Democratic primary voters, while Sen. Bernie Sanders followed closely at 25 percent.

Sen. Elizabeth Warren(D-Mass.), who previously led Sanders in the poll, slid 2 percentage points from the September poll and now sits in third place with 21 percent.

As with other recent polls, no other candidate besides the top three registered support in the double digits. South Bend, Ind., Mayor Pete Buttigieg came in fourth place in October's poll with the support of just 6 percent of Democratic primary voters.

Sanders is strongest among younger voters, with 45 percent of the 18–29 age group supporting him, by far the largest of any Democratic candidate. Warren placed second among this group with 17 percent.
Biden had a similar level of support, 44 percent, among voters age 50 and over.

 

[Belgium]

In the absence of Dwalk, I have prepared a defense for the Coal Gang to push back against lib conjecture.

As the evidence below establishes, the president told Sondland that he was not asking for a quid pro quo.
Again, when the president then explicitly insisted that Zelensky should publicly announce that he is opening an investigation of Biden and 2016 election interference, at no point did the president use the words 'I am asking for a quid pro quo.'
NO QUID PRO QUO