Preaching: Stephen A. Smith & Skip Bayless Talk About Racial And Ethnic Sensitivity

[sreggie101]

Originally Posted by MonStar1

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by MonStar1

I don't care what anybody says that headline was done on purpose.  Headline writers uses puns.  

Who disagreed? Did anyone think it was accidental?

Alot of people have played the "maybe he didn't know" or "its a common phrase" card.

And from what I heard Stephen A say it sounds like was backing the writer.  Which is ridiculous
  


i thought thats what i was getting from smith too. he said a lot of real talk in that speech, and frankly i get annoyed when some in the black community call racism when it truly isn't there. stuff like that def causes more harm then good, because when situations arise that are truly a result of racial bigotry, non-victims, tend to shrug it off on some "oh they're playing that card again". also he made a valid point in stating that other communities are now more outspoken with issues they feel may be offensive, as a direct result of how historically outspoken the black community has been.

with that said, im not sure i followed him specifically with the lin/espn issue. first off, it wasn't a mistake, there was too much coincidence with the use of chnk when referring to lin. so im not sure what he was getting at...did he believe that they shouldn't be reprimanded? it showed a lack of professionalism and outright respect of those who would be offended by that. so it stands to reason that careers can be lost because of it. someone break it down for me.


@silly, i get your free speech point, but i think the issue is not so much the person's viewpoint, but how that would reflect on the organization that employs said person. if its on his own time, the dude could be down with the KKK for all espn cares, but during work hours, espn wants people to represent their brand, and as it seems, they don't want to appear racist in any way to any of its viewers.

 

[doublejs07]

WOW....a lot of things were WELL said by SAS.

My only issue is that I 100% believe that the person (or people) responsible for the headline at ESPN knew EXACTLY what they were doing. Yes, I do believe in 2nd chances if you do have some sort of ignorance towards a certain demographic. That 2nd chance should be given if the person is willing to admit their ignorance and WANT to understand why the words they used were offensive.

The best part of SAS's rant was when he talked about people not wanting to achieve all they can because of the built in excuse of "racism." I think that rings true for a lot of people out there.

Thanks for posting that DC.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I don't see how any person with a brain can't understand that the ESPN Headlines were done on purpose. I don't think SAS was implying it was accidental, I think that he was saying that dude shouldn't have gotten in that much trouble. He called it a mistake, it didn't call it an accident. Big difference.

Again @ Truth, I don't think ANYONE thought it was an accident. Saying a person was punished too harshly is not implying it is an accident.

 

[k00laid]

first take is the best thing on espn

 

[patrick bateman]

Originally Posted by RavageBX

I agree with a lot of what he had to say but at the same time he's got to acknowledge and understand that black hypersensitivity is not a cause but an effect. Our collective hypersensitivity to racial issues is not the cause of other peoples subsequent pseudo-hypersensitivity. Years of misunderstanding due to racial tensions across all racial booundaries, sparked by our countries ugly history caused that. Black oppression in this country forced us to use our skin color as a sword and a shield. Other people have seen the utility of that and copied it. It's almost become a diversionary tactic which fosters more misunderstanding. When people discuss what bothers them, instead of addressing it other people come out and say "well this bothers me." Never any true dialogue to break down and get to the root of perceived insensitivity. It happens all the time on NT. Hell it happens everywhere. People are more comfortable parrying racial insensitivity with their own racial proclivities, then actually breaking it down and gaining greater understanding.

PREACH COT DAMMIT!!! 

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Originally Posted by Young Handsome

That is why I love ESPN First Take. They are not afraid to discuss sensitive issues.

Stephen A. Smith is that dude.

Stephen A dropped that knowledge. What he said needed to be said. Him and Skip is great television.

 

[hankmoody]

Originally Posted by hugebird

I agree with what Stephen A. said, but I think that it's not appropos in this case.

I'm still trying to figure out what this had to do with Jeremy Lin and even sports in general. I hate First Take and think both Skip and Screamin' encompass much of what is wrong with sports journalism today, but this was a good segment, albeit one that had zero connection to anything concerning Jeremy Lin.

 

[monstar1]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

I don't see how any person with a brain can't understand that the ESPN Headlines were done on purpose. I don't think SAS was implying it was accidental, I think that he was saying that dude shouldn't have gotten in that much trouble. He called it a mistake, it didn't call it an accident. Big difference.

Again @ Truth, I don't think ANYONE thought it was an accident. Saying a person was punished too harshly is not implying it is an accident.

ok i agree.  But knowing Stephen A. and how he "tells it like it is" you don't think its weird he never said the writer was in the wrong?  Stephen A. acts like he gets paid by the word and he will get all riled up when he calls people out.  Where was that fire at for the writer?  He didn't have it because thats his writer fraternity which is BS!  He's basically sounds like Joe Pa. 

I just rubs me the wrong way how he threw out that misdirection speech and ya'll are like

 but he never addressed the writer really. 

thats not asinine asiten asieleven but asiTWELVE!

 

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by MonStar1

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

I don't see how any person with a brain can't understand that the ESPN Headlines were done on purpose. I don't think SAS was implying it was accidental, I think that he was saying that dude shouldn't have gotten in that much trouble. He called it a mistake, it didn't call it an accident. Big difference.

Again @ Truth, I don't think ANYONE thought it was an accident. Saying a person was punished too harshly is not implying it is an accident.

ok i agree.  But knowing Stephen A. and how he "tells it like it is" you don't think its weird he never said the writer was in the wrong?  Stephen A. acts like he gets paid by the word and he will get all riled up when he calls people out.  Where was that fire at for the writer?  He didn't have it because thats his writer fraternity which is BS!  He's basically sounds like Joe Pa. 

I just rubs me the wrong way how he threw out that misdirection speech and ya'll are like

 but he never addressed the writer really. 

thats not asinine asiten asieleven but asiTWELVE!

 

Him saying, "They made a mistake" is saying that they were wrong. What more needs to be said man. 

 

[antidope]

HankMoody wrote:

---

hugebird wrote:

---

I agree with what Stephen A. said, but I think that it's not appropos in this case.



I'm still trying to figure out what this had to do with Jeremy Lin and even sports in general. I hate First Take and think both Skip and Screamin' encompass much of what is wrong with sports journalism today, but this was a good segment, albeit one that had zero connection to anything concerning Jeremy Lin.
This is one thing that irks me. ESPN in particular has become more about flair and entertainment as opposed to sports journalism. This used to be the one show where it didn't happen and now all of a sudden its rife with it. Nonstop gimmicks like the "Championship belt", NFL power ranking segment that must involve props, and to some extent the way the debates play out. I'm all for showing emotion when you debate cause a lot of times its warranted but they sometimes take it too far. I still get a lot out of it though. Its all a result of the mass amount of people that started watching it though. ESPN knows it and they know how to feed the beasts. I can tolerate it at the level where its at right now, but if it continues to get worse then I'm just going to move on to reading articles only.

 

[hankmoody]

Hasn't Skip Bayless always been on the show? That in itself will always make the show a complete joke. This segment was refreshing.

 

[dmbrhs]

Originally Posted by hugebird

I agree with what Stephen A. said, but I think that it's not appropos in this case. The headline writer knew exactly what they were doing with that headline, and if they didn't then they are too incompetent to have that job, because who knows what else they don't know. The dude had to go.

As a writer myself, I'm going to defend the writer to a certain degree. The phrase used in the headline is NOT uncommon (and doesn't apply just to sports). As someone who has also written many headlines, there are certain go-to phrases you use, and sometimes you do it without hesitation. I guarantee this guy has used the phrase a thousand times in his life. So now that it's posted next to an Asian athlete, it's a problem? And if something looks "off," that's what an editor is for, to take a second look and make sure everything looks right. ESPN used this one guy as a scapegoat, which isn't fair. There are multiple people who see that headline before it gets published.

As for the ethnic slur itself, it doesn't really even exist in the modern lexicon. Everything nowadays is misconstrued as racism, and too big a deal is made about non-issues. There used to be a time when a slip-up like this meant an apology and you moved on. Now it leads to groups demanding people get fired and national discussions about race. Everyone is too damn sensitive these days.

I'm not saying the guy should have gotten off easy, I'm just saying an apology from ESPN and maybe take the guy off headline duty for awhile, is all that's needed.

 

[witnessmycalm21]

Originally Posted by Elpablo21

Damn he went in

He was speaking some truth

 

[spacerace]

Originally Posted by k00laid

first take is the best thing on espn

First Take, PTI, and the first and last 10 minutes of Sports Center are the only things worth watching on ESPN

 

[monstar1]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by MonStar1

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

I don't see how any person with a brain can't understand that the ESPN Headlines were done on purpose. I don't think SAS was implying it was accidental, I think that he was saying that dude shouldn't have gotten in that much trouble. He called it a mistake, it didn't call it an accident. Big difference.

Again @ Truth, I don't think ANYONE thought it was an accident. Saying a person was punished too harshly is not implying it is an accident.

ok i agree.  But knowing Stephen A. and how he "tells it like it is" you don't think its weird he never said the writer was in the wrong?  Stephen A. acts like he gets paid by the word and he will get all riled up when he calls people out.  Where was that fire at for the writer?  He didn't have it because thats his writer fraternity which is BS!  He's basically sounds like Joe Pa. 

I just rubs me the wrong way how he threw out that misdirection speech and ya'll are like

 but he never addressed the writer really. 

thats not asinine asiten asieleven but asiTWELVE!

 

Him saying, "They made a mistake" is saying that they were wrong. What more needs to be said man. 

Because he doesn't do that. Stephen A. doesn't say "they made a mistake" he says

"HOLD ON. Let me be quite clear when I say this...the writer and I'm not sure we can even call him that is clearly in the WRONG.  He's so far in the wrong he needs a GPS to get back in the right.  His lack of sensitivity and resposibility is down right despicable!  I'm nauseous from the sheer thought of it.  I can literally feel my turkey and swiss cheese on rye coming up.  No EXCUSE! No excuse..." *sits back in his chair and shakes head*

Be serious man.  He didn't address the writer at all and that was more of a crime than the actual writer's mistake.  He basically convinced sports fans and mainly black fans who support him the most that this "mistake" wasn't that serious.

 

[josednk1068]

Originally Posted by HankMoody

Originally Posted by hugebird

I agree with what Stephen A. said, but I think that it's not appropos in this case.

I'm still trying to figure out what this had to do with Jeremy Lin and even sports in general. I hate First Take and think both Skip and Screamin' encompass much of what is wrong with sports journalism today, but this was a good segment, albeit one that had zero connection to anything concerning Jeremy Lin.

Well lets see ... he is talking about racial insensitivity which ties in with the recent comments towards Lin in the media. I guess we weren't watching the same video, maybe you saw the one on Tebow vs. Quinn?

  

 

[marinadelrey]

more people need to get off wshh and watch this man

 

[hankmoody]

Originally Posted by Josednk1068

Originally Posted by HankMoody

Originally Posted by hugebird

I agree with what Stephen A. said, but I think that it's not appropos in this case.

I'm still trying to figure out what this had to do with Jeremy Lin and even sports in general. I hate First Take and think both Skip and Screamin' encompass much of what is wrong with sports journalism today, but this was a good segment, albeit one that had zero connection to anything concerning Jeremy Lin.

Well lets see ... he is talking about racial insensitivity which ties in with the recent comments towards Lin in the media. I guess we weren't watching the same video, maybe you saw the one on Tebow vs. Quinn?

  

For barely 1 out 12 minutes. Tell me what the black and Hispanic populations in 2035 (?) has to do with Jeremy Lin. A majority of the segment was not on topic at all. It was Screamin' A just pontificating on some of his perceived ills in the black community and Skip being extremely careful because he can't talk in code when the topic is race itself. 

 

[sreggie101]

Originally Posted by HankMoody

I agree with what Stephen A. said, but I think that it's not appropos in this case.

I'm still trying to figure out what this had to do with Jeremy Lin and even sports in general. I hate First Take and think both Skip and Screamin' encompass much of what is wrong with sports journalism today, but this was a good segment, albeit one that had zero connection to anything concerning Jeremy Lin.

i just rewatched the vid. what i got so far, with relation to jeremy lin, was that smith thinks that people need to be given a chance to apologize as a result of them truly not knowing, and that they shouldn't be MethodMan'd on their first offense. If they don't care after they understand why it was offensive, then, ok pull the trigger, but if not, give them a 2nd chance. skip backed him up saying that as a younger journalist he wasn't aware to certain things that were considered offensive to other communities that he has since learned about.


...idk in this day and age, its a hard argument to sell as a journalist. i still believe it was intentional, that word wasn't used to refer to any other star player whose team lost. its too obvious that it wasn't a mistake.

 

[theone2401]

Originally Posted by HankMoody

Originally Posted by Josednk1068

Originally Posted by HankMoody




I'm still trying to figure out what this had to do with Jeremy Lin and even sports in general. I hate First Take and think both Skip and Screamin' encompass much of what is wrong with sports journalism today, but this was a good segment, albeit one that had zero connection to anything concerning Jeremy Lin.

Well lets see ... he is talking about racial insensitivity which ties in with the recent comments towards Lin in the media. I guess we weren't watching the same video, maybe you saw the one on Tebow vs. Quinn?

  

For barely 1 out 12 minutes. Tell me what the black and Hispanic populations in 2035 (?) has to do with Jeremy Lin. A majority of the segment was not on topic at all. It was Screamin' A just pontificating on some of his perceived ills in the black community and Skip being extremely careful because he can't talk in code when the topic is race itself. 

He brought that up to warn the black community that they should be careful about racial hypersensitivity because it may backfire on them in the future when there is a new majority. That segment was not about Jeremy Lin at all. Lin's situation was just an example of a racial hypersensitivity that Stephen A. Smith expanded on. How was he off topic?

 

[hankmoody]

Alright, I re-watched a bit and do see that some parts of the segment were connected to Jeremy Lin's trials and tribulations. My bad. My mind seemed to focus more on the discussion of Screamin' A's take on unrelated issues.

 

[dathbgboy]

Originally Posted by sreggie101

Originally Posted by HankMoody

Originally Posted by hugebird

I agree with what Stephen A. said, but I think that it's not appropos in this case.

I'm still trying to figure out what this had to do with Jeremy Lin and even sports in general. I hate First Take and think both Skip and Screamin' encompass much of what is wrong with sports journalism today, but this was a good segment, albeit one that had zero connection to anything concerning Jeremy Lin.

i just rewatched the vid. what i got so far, with relation to jeremy lin, was that smith thinks that people need to be given a chance to apologize as a result of them truly not knowing, and that they shouldn't be MethodMan'd on their first offense. If they don't care after they understand why it was offensive, then, ok pull the trigger, but if not, give them a 2nd chance. skip backed him up saying that as a younger journalist he wasn't aware to certain things that were considered offensive to other communities that he has since learned about.


...idk in this day and age, its a hard argument to sell as a journalist. i still believe it was intentional, that word wasn't used to refer to any other star player whose team lost. its too obvious that it wasn't a mistake.

I think behind the whole dialogue, this was the main point of the topic. 

 

[-Red-]

I don't agree with basically anything that Steven A stated.  He said a lot without really saying much in my opinion.  He keeps saying we're missing the bigger issue, when it's clear that he's missing the bigger issue.  The fact that racism (especially open racism) has declined in this country betrays the fact that, in many ways, things are worse for the Black masses than they were in the 1960s.  These things include: lower high school graduation rates, higher unemployment rates, astronomical incarceration rates, increasing rates of poverty as well as deep poverty, an increase in the concentration of poverty in certain communities, the crumbling of Black social institutions, etc.  Many Black folks feel no more "apart" of mainstream American society than they did 50 years ago... because they aren't more apart of mainstream American society.

These changes are byproducts of race, class, and larger structural shifts in public and economic policy.  Steven A fails to grasp this.  He, like most people in this country, still view the state of the Black community largely through a dichotomous and woefully inadequate "racism" versus "personal responsibility" framework.  It's clear that Steven A finds racism alone to be an inadequate explanation for the current conditions of the Black community.  AND IT IS.  He also finds the "personal responsibility" mantra even more inadequate, if not reprehensible.  AND IT IS (both).  A more nuanced analysis and understanding of these dynamics is necessary.  He doesn't have that yet.  Neither do most Black folks.  They know that they continue to be severely marginalized but they don't have a full understanding of how so "racism" becomes the sole explanation.

Skip has no grasp of these things either.  You can tell he doesn't have an explanation for any of this.  He acknowledges racism but no doubt also finds it inadequate to alone explain the current circumstances in the Black community.  He doesn't want to blame Black folks, and he probably really fights against doing so... but often does, likely in private privately.  This is a position that I would guess that most white folks find themselves in.  Once again, like Steven A and so many others, he doesn't have a framework that can think outside of racism versus "personal responsibility."

A lot of people in here are happy that a Black man said what they have been feeling but don't feel they are able to say out loud.  Now a lot of you probably feel validated.  Don't.  Steven A thinks the "bigger issue" is that we as a society don't give people a "second chance" when they say something racist and that the Black community is "too sensitive" about racial issues.  No, those are exactly NOT the "bigger issues."  What I outlined in this thread are (many of) the real issues.

I do agree with Skip's point that if something is offensive to a group of people JUST DON'T SAY IT.  Period.  That is definitely the approach that we as human beings need to take.

 

[blackcease]

Originally Posted by RavageBX

I agree with a lot of what he had to say but at the same time he's got to acknowledge and understand that black hypersensitivity is not a cause but an effect. Our collective hypersensitivity to racial issues is not the cause of other peoples subsequent pseudo-hypersensitivity. Years of misunderstanding due to racial tensions across all racial booundaries, sparked by our countries ugly history caused that. Black oppression in this country forced us to use our skin color as a sword and a shield. Other people have seen the utility of that and copied it. It's almost become a diversionary tactic which fosters more misunderstanding. When people discuss what bothers them, instead of addressing it other people come out and say "well this bothers me." Never any true dialogue to break down and get to the root of perceived insensitivity. It happens all the time on NT. Hell it happens everywhere. People are more comfortable parrying racial insensitivity with their own racial proclivities, then actually breaking it down and gaining greater understanding.

^this

And yea I feel where Stephen A. was coming from but that was waaaaay off topic.  He really went left dragging the black community into this.  Reminds me of how somehow hip hop artists ended up being responsible for Don Imus being a racist

.  "##%%$ in the armor" was an attempt at sneaky racism, it was wrong, and if the guy wasn't smart enough to know that would offend people then he's not smart enough to have that position.

 

[hugebird]

Originally Posted by dmbrhs

Originally Posted by hugebird

I agree with what Stephen A. said, but I think that it's not appropos in this case. The headline writer knew exactly what they were doing with that headline, and if they didn't then they are too incompetent to have that job, because who knows what else they don't know. The dude had to go.

As a writer myself, I'm going to defend the writer to a certain degree. The phrase used in the headline is NOT uncommon (and doesn't apply just to sports). As someone who has also written many headlines, there are certain go-to phrases you use, and sometimes you do it without hesitation. I guarantee this guy has used the phrase a thousand times in his life. So now that it's posted next to an Asian athlete, it's a problem? And if something looks "off," that's what an editor is for, to take a second look and make sure everything looks right. ESPN used this one guy as a scapegoat, which isn't fair. There are multiple people who see that headline before it gets published.

As for the ethnic slur itself, it doesn't really even exist in the modern lexicon. Everything nowadays is misconstrued as racism, and too big a deal is made about non-issues. There used to be a time when a slip-up like this meant an apology and you moved on. Now it leads to groups demanding people get fired and national discussions about race. Everyone is too damn sensitive these days.

I'm not saying the guy should have gotten off easy, I'm just saying an apology from ESPN and maybe take the guy off headline duty for awhile, is all that's needed.

I don't know what world you live in where the slur doesn't exist in the lexicon, but this is the initial go-to slur that people use to insult Asians. In the weeks prior to the controversy, I heard it used on three separate occasions, once referring to Lin. Despite being in an area that is supposedly liberal and one of the most heterogeneous cities in the world, it's not uncommon to hear the word when people think they can get away with it.

I also think you're being slightly disingenuous when you say that you think it's a go-to phrase and it just HAPPENED to be on a headline next to an Asian on accident. There is literally no way that I can believe that this wasn't done intentionally, and in this society, if you are cognizant of this so-called "hypersensitivity", putting your employer and yourself in the line for such scrutiny is grounds for termination in my opinion.

Also, I don't know anything about you, but (forgive me if I'm wrong) you may be a white male, and as a member of the same group, I don't feel that I have the right to tell marginalized groups that they are being too sensitive or that something is "too big a deal" or a "non-issue", because no matter how much you think you can understand their plight intellectually, you can not, realistically.