Putty it is what it is. Like i said, at the end of the day my opinion and your doesnt matter to 98% of the people on this board. My point to you like i said is let it go. The thread had died off and you are still posting anti religious videos. You can discuss what you want on Nike Talk, but its the manner in which it is delivered. I would have no issue having a civilized religious talk with anyone including you. But you didnt keep it civil you were trying to get LULZ and props like I said. Me personally I am not crying fowl from your opinion, but you have no respect for people's views or beliefs. If you did you wouldnt be posting ridiculous videos, and pictures.
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cap29
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just let him have the thread.
sillyputty
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just let him have the thread.
Chill on the reverse psychology.
Its funny how you are able to yet again speak without backing up anything you're saying... Religious people love saying things that have no objective basis...but hey, thats what "faith" is right? I could just as easily say your faith-based stance is out of a need for you to explain away the fact your daddy wasnt there growing up or how your mom beat you for making waffles wrong or something stupid.
You came in here defending one religion OUT OF MANY...and i'm asking that if you're a christian why can't you be a hindu and yet you can't answer that.
Nor can you reasonably defend your faith without exposing the massive holes in your logic.
If you want to defend an indefensible position, GO AHEAD. I'll wait.
But don't expect me not to call people out on clear lapses in logic or rationale.
AGAIN WITH THE WATERWORKS...
Again you are talking out of your behind with NO OBJECTIVE BASIS for establishing anything that you're saying.
A majority of the stuff on here does not apply to me either.
Again do you think I care about WOMEN, POLITICS, GUNS, DRESSING UP, BUSINESS VENTURES, RASTACLAT BRACELETS, ANDROID DEVICES, PICTURES OF BREASTS, OUR FAVORITE BEERS, OR IF WE PEE IN THE SHOWER...
Nothing applies to everyone.
Stop speaking as if you represent everyone.
Let it go? Then why do you keep posting ABOUT ME POSTING? Are you a fan of mine?
You're not even talking about Christianity or islam or whatever religion you follow. You're not contributing to the thread...AT ALL...if anything I should report you for trolling. You're not being useful in ANY WAY to the thread.
And on top of that I don't HAVE to respect your beliefs. I CAN AND WILL HOWEVER, PROTECT YOUR RIGHT TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE.
You're just upset that you don't agree with me...in which case you need to man up and go handle that elsewhere.
I'm not here trying to change opinions and I dont care if you disagree with me. But don't defend something like the bible or whatever and act like i'm out of line for pointing out fallacies or other false proclamations.
The thread hasn't died off. People were posting up until late last afternoon. You just dont want to see this thread...i don't care if it hurts you. Go start another thread on another topic...i'm not doing ANYTHING to you.
I'm not TRYING to get "lulz"...i'm simply posting my opinion.
YOU HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO BE OFFENDED OR NOT.
YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO NOT BE OFFENDED.
You can't defend free speech by putting limits on what upsets you.
What makes something ridiculous? That its something you disagree with or its something that doesn't make sense?
I called your argument saying my contribution to this thread was ridiculous because it didn't make sense. There are TONS of different topics on NT General.
Your stance on my posts being ridiculous however is a bad argument because you just dont like the content. If I called your favorite movie ridiculous would you get upset?
And yes, you ARE crying fowl.
More of this "i'm religious so i'm special and free from criticism" victimization syndrome. This false persecution.
Would you have a problem if you agreed with what was being said?
james earl zones
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just let him have the thread.
The devil made him do it
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A lot of athiest argumentative points seem to be how ridiculous religion appears to them. Their arguments probably would be more recognizable, if their standpoint wasn't solely opinions. Real talk, we all haave been hurt by religions. Some people just seem to want to take this intellectual bravado approach like "You're not getting this one over on me" which seems to be some type of device used to overcompensate for past transgressions with religion. It is understandable and commendable once people acknowledgeable thisa and people can honestly debate from a true standpoint, and not these tough guy I'm smarter than this "God guy" strawmans.
Originally Posted by sillyputty
just let him have the thread.He needs this WAY more than we do. Who knows what he has going in his life where he needs somebody or something to blame and can't do it so this is the next viable option.
Chill on the reverse psychology.
Its funny how you are able to yet again speak without backing up anything you're saying... Religious people love saying things that have no objective basis...but hey, thats what "faith" is right? I could just as easily say your faith-based stance is out of a need for you to explain away the fact your daddy wasnt there growing up or how your mom beat you for making waffles wrong or something stupid.
You came in here defending one religion OUT OF MANY...and i'm asking that if you're a christian why can't you be a hindu and yet you can't answer that.
Nor can you reasonably defend your faith without exposing the massive holes in your logic.
If you want to defend an indefensible position, GO AHEAD. I'll wait.
But don't expect me not to call people out on clear lapses in logic or rationale.
AGAIN WITH THE WATERWORKS...
Again you are talking out of your behind with NO OBJECTIVE BASIS for establishing anything that you're saying.
A majority of the stuff on here does not apply to me either.
Again do you think I care about WOMEN, POLITICS, GUNS, DRESSING UP, BUSINESS VENTURES, RASTACLAT BRACELETS, ANDROID DEVICES, PICTURES OF BREASTS, OUR FAVORITE BEERS, OR IF WE PEE IN THE SHOWER...
Nothing applies to everyone.
Stop speaking as if you represent everyone.
Let it go? Then why do you keep posting ABOUT ME POSTING? Are you a fan of mine?
You're not even talking about Christianity or islam or whatever religion you follow. You're not contributing to the thread...AT ALL...if anything I should report you for trolling. You're not being useful in ANY WAY to the thread.
And on top of that I don't HAVE to respect your beliefs. I CAN AND WILL HOWEVER, PROTECT YOUR RIGHT TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE.
You're just upset that you don't agree with me...in which case you need to man up and go handle that elsewhere.
I'm not here trying to change opinions and I dont care if you disagree with me. But don't defend something like the bible or whatever and act like i'm out of line for pointing out fallacies or other false proclamations.
The thread hasn't died off. People were posting up until late last afternoon. You just dont want to see this thread...i don't care if it hurts you. Go start another thread on another topic...i'm not doing ANYTHING to you.
I'm not TRYING to get "lulz"...i'm simply posting my opinion.
YOU HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO BE OFFENDED OR NOT.
YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO NOT BE OFFENDED.
You can't defend free speech by putting limits on what upsets you.
What makes something ridiculous? That its something you disagree with or its something that doesn't make sense?
I called your argument saying my contribution to this thread was ridiculous because it didn't make sense. There are TONS of different topics on NT General.
Your stance on my posts being ridiculous however is a bad argument because you just dont like the content. If I called your favorite movie ridiculous would you get upset?
And yes, you ARE crying fowl.
More of this "i'm religious so i'm special and free from criticism" victimization syndrome. This false persecution.
Would you have a problem if you agreed with what was being said?
Yes after reading all the jibberish you just wrote, I am going to agree with Cap on this. You need to win this way more then I do or anyone else does. So its good. You continue what you believe and I will do the same. But hiding behind a computer knocking people's religion isnt a good look.
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This.
I agree with most of the opinions that athiests have, but I know some people(theist and atheist) aren't seriously trying to have a discourse if every sentence is ended with a
Can't you guys be civil and actually reach a conclusion instead of Meth having to come into these debates and lock it time and time again.
james earl zones
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Honestly if both sides didn't turn this into a debate there wouldn't be an issue. Both sides become aggressive for no reason. These threads could easily be discussions that both sides benefit from. I'm an atheist but I'd rather learn from a theist than argue with them.
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dp
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A question to believers, why do you believe in that particular faith and what makes you believe that it is the ultimate truth? Are you more spiritual as in believing in the philosophies of the religion, or you believe it is the literal truth in an orthodox sense of belief thorough and through as the truth to live life?
sillyputty
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jhobson5 wrote:
sillyputty wrote:
Cap29 wrote:
just let him have the thread.He needs this WAY more than we do. Who knows what he has going in his life where he needs somebody or something to blame and can't do it so this is the next viable option.
Chill on the reverse psychology.
Its funny how you are able to yet again speak without backing up anything you're saying... Religious people love saying things that have no objective basis...but hey, thats what "faith" is right? I could just as easily say your faith-based stance is out of a need for you to explain away the fact your daddy wasnt there growing up or how your mom beat you for making waffles wrong or something stupid.
You came in here defending one religion OUT OF MANY...and i'm asking that if you're a christian why can't you be a hindu and yet you can't answer that.
Nor can you reasonably defend your faith without exposing the massive holes in your logic.
If you want to defend an indefensible position, GO AHEAD. I'll wait.
But don't expect me not to call people out on clear lapses in logic or rationale.
AGAIN WITH THE WATERWORKS...
@ 98% ...did you take a poll or are you just making stuff up again?
Again you are talking out of your behind with NO OBJECTIVE BASIS for establishing anything that you're saying.
A majority of the stuff on here does not apply to me either.
Again do you think I care about WOMEN, POLITICS, GUNS, DRESSING UP, BUSINESS VENTURES, RASTACLAT BRACELETS, ANDROID DEVICES, PICTURES OF BREASTS, OUR FAVORITE BEERS, OR IF WE PEE IN THE SHOWER...
Nothing applies to everyone.
Stop speaking as if you represent everyone.
Let it go? Then why do you keep posting ABOUT ME POSTING? Are you a fan of mine?
You're not even talking about Christianity or islam or whatever religion you follow. You're not contributing to the thread...AT ALL...if anything I should report you for trolling. You're not being useful in ANY WAY to the thread.
And on top of that I don't HAVE to respect your beliefs. I CAN AND WILL HOWEVER, PROTECT YOUR RIGHT TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE.
You're just upset that you don't agree with me...in which case you need to man up and go handle that elsewhere.
I'm not here trying to change opinions and I dont care if you disagree with me. But don't defend something like the bible or whatever and act like i'm out of line for pointing out fallacies or other false proclamations.
The thread hasn't died off. People were posting up until late last afternoon. You just dont want to see this thread...i don't care if it hurts you. Go start another thread on another topic...i'm not doing ANYTHING to you.
I'm not TRYING to get "lulz"...i'm simply posting my opinion.
YOU HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO BE OFFENDED OR NOT.
YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO NOT BE OFFENDED.
You can't defend free speech by putting limits on what upsets you.
What makes something ridiculous? That its something you disagree with or its something that doesn't make sense?
I called your argument saying my contribution to this thread was ridiculous because it didn't make sense. There are TONS of different topics on NT General.
Your stance on my posts being ridiculous however is a bad argument because you just dont like the content. If I called your favorite movie ridiculous would you get upset?
And yes, you ARE crying fowl.
More of this "i'm religious so i'm special and free from criticism" victimization syndrome. This false persecution.
Would you have a problem if you agreed with what was being said?
Yes after reading all the jibberish you just wrote, I am going to agree with Cap on this. You need to win this way more then I do or anyone else does. So its good. You continue what you believe and I will do the same. But hiding behind a computer knocking people's religion isnt a good look.
Its gibberish, but you read it. Keep the insults to yourself.
I don't care about "winning"as there isn't anything to win here.
I just don't understand why you get off on basically WHINING without actually contributing to the discussion.
Again. BOO. HOO.
You're upset because you don't like the topic. We're talking about religion. If we were talking about basketball, i'm sure some Hawks fans would get upset when Heat fans start talking and vice versa. To one group the hawks are everything and to another group the heat are everything and to yet ANOTHER group basketball doesn't even matter so don't start getting upset because you met someone who doesn't really care how much you like your religion. Thats what happens when people don't get exposed to other opinions. They're shocked that people could even have such a stance. Get over it.
You're free to believe what you want. That was never in question.
However you are getting mad at the discussion itself, not at a particular stance.
So YOU in fact are far more useless in the context of anything being discussed than you say others are.
You can reconcile your bias elsewhere. I'd like to get back on topic, and thats addressing christianity.
If you're upset about WHATS being said, then ultimately thats something you have to deal with...but getting upset that such a discussion is even taking place? Well you just have to grow up. I can't and won't change my tone or how I address you or other views, but I can't take you seriously for getting upset with religious discussions on a "sneakerboard" because you don't like the topic in and of itself.
Again, no one told you to come here, and no one is keeping you here.
Contribute to the discussion and offer your opinion about the topic, but don't think you can get off by just trivializing the entirety of the discussion.
I agree. Completely.
Which is why i'm done with people complaining about stuff without actually contributing like JHobson5.
It does none of us good if people like that are going to get upset that a discussion is happening without actually contributing to that same discussion.
sillyputty
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JHobson5,�
Since you want to say secular/non-christians offend you too much then tell me how this feels:
Or how this feels:
The Wyndgate Country Club in Rochester Hills, MI, cancels Center for Inquiry–Michigan event with biologist Richard Dawkins because of his atheist philosophy.
Prejudice against atheists manifested itself again when The Wyndgate Country Club in Rochester Hills, Michigan (outside of Detroit), cancelled an event with scientist and author Richard Dawkins after learning of Dawkins’s views on religion. The event had been arranged by theCenter for Inquiry–Michigan�(CFI), an advocacy group for secularism and science, and the�Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science.
The Wyndgate terminated the agreement after the owner saw an October 5th interview with Dawkins on�The O’Reilly Factor�in which Dawkins discussed his new book,�The Magic of Reality: How We Know What’s Really True.
In a phone call to CFI–Michigan Assistant Director Jennifer Beahan, The Wyndgate’s representative explained that the owner did not wish to associate with individuals such as Dawkins, or his philosophies.
Although privately owned, The Wyndgate facilities are open to the public for special events and occasions. According to Title II of the Federal Civil Rights Law of 1964, “open to the public
Since you want to say secular/non-christians offend you too much then tell me how this feels:
Or how this feels:
The Wyndgate Country Club in Rochester Hills, MI, cancels Center for Inquiry–Michigan event with biologist Richard Dawkins because of his atheist philosophy.
Prejudice against atheists manifested itself again when The Wyndgate Country Club in Rochester Hills, Michigan (outside of Detroit), cancelled an event with scientist and author Richard Dawkins after learning of Dawkins’s views on religion. The event had been arranged by theCenter for Inquiry–Michigan�(CFI), an advocacy group for secularism and science, and the�Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science.
In a phone call to CFI–Michigan Assistant Director Jennifer Beahan, The Wyndgate’s representative explained that the owner did not wish to associate with individuals such as Dawkins, or his philosophies.
Although privately owned, The Wyndgate facilities are open to the public for special events and occasions. According to Title II of the Federal Civil Rights Law of 1964, “open to the public
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Again with the "arrogant atheist" accusations. Most atheists will tell you that they don't 100% know that God(s) doesn't exist.Originally Posted by iYen
This.
I agree with most of the opinions that athiests have, but I know some people(theist and atheist) aren't seriously trying to have a discourse if every sentence is ended with a
Can't you guys be civil and actually reach a conclusion instead of Meth having to come into these debates and lock it time and time again.
How can you not laugh at people who don't understand evolution and science in general, and then use science as evidence of God's existence?
How can you not laugh at people who pretend to be offended by cartoons and pictures with text so that they don't have to defend their position?
How can you not laugh when their arguments are FULL OF LOGICAL FALLACIES?
How can you not laugh at the disgusting HYPOCRISY of these believers?
Their arguments for the existence of their God(s) are ridiculous and fallacious. We laugh at Bill O'reilly for asking how did the Moon get here and saying that is direct evidence that the Judeo-Christian God exists. Why can we not laugh at such ridiculous arguments made by NTers? Do NTers have some kind of protected status?
Just because we don't think that God(s) exist, that doesn't necessarily mean that we know how the universe got here. We would go to the scientific experts on that. But noooo, if we should science as a base for our knowledge, we are labeled that fake intellectuals.
What's wrong with a debate? Are we merely supposed to state our positions and leave it at that? We can't discuss or address the other side's position? Atheists should learn from theists that hitting your wife is okay when she's out of line or that killing homosexuals is A-OK?
We're trying to move away from religion, not closer to it.
I'd rather a theist learn from an atheist, because theists really have no idea what atheism is. Atheists already know plenty enough about theists and their religions.
cap29
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Originally Posted by sillyputty
just let him have the thread.He needs this WAY more than we do. Who knows what he has going in his life where he needs somebody or something to blame and can't do it so this is the next viable option.
Chill on the reverse psychology.
Its funny how you are able to yet again speak without backing up anything you're saying... Religious people love saying things that have no objective basis...but hey, thats what "faith" is right? I could just as easily say your faith-based stance is out of a need for you to explain away the fact your daddy wasnt there growing up or how your mom beat you for making waffles wrong or something stupid.
You came in here defending one religion OUT OF MANY...and i'm asking that if you're a christian why can't you be a hindu and yet you can't answer that.
Nor can you reasonably defend your faith without exposing the massive holes in your logic.
If you want to defend an indefensible position, GO AHEAD. I'll wait.
But don't expect me not to call people out on clear lapses in logic or rationale.
Based off of this reply you are the reason people hate atheist as a whole. You are that stereotype. You don't deserve FOR ANYONE to explain themselves to you.
Oh and as a former child of severe abuse who used to be completely against religion because I couldn't understand why God would allow an innocent child to have to deal with what I had to deal with it was only when I looked to Christianity to help me with forgiveness and letting go of the anger and being able to love my enemies and myself that I can be where I am today. I'm in a pretty good %#%*%%+ place.
With that said I hope you choke on a biscuit and a priest is the ONE that saves your life by preforming the heimlich maneuver you scum.
You've been given the %#%*%%+ thread what more do you want?
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Originally Posted by Cap29
Based off of this reply you are the reason people hate atheist as a whole. You are that stereotype. You don't deserve FOR ANYONE to explain themselves to you.Originally Posted by sillyputty
Originally Posted by Cap29
just let him have the thread.He needs this WAY more than we do. Who knows what he has going in his life where he needs somebody or something to blame and can't do it so this is the next viable option.
Chill on the reverse psychology.
Its funny how you are able to yet again speak without backing up anything you're saying... Religious people love saying things that have no objective basis...but hey, thats what "faith" is right? I could just as easily say your faith-based stance is out of a need for you to explain away the fact your daddy wasnt there growing up or how your mom beat you for making waffles wrong or something stupid.
You came in here defending one religion OUT OF MANY...and i'm asking that if you're a christian why can't you be a hindu and yet you can't answer that.
Nor can you reasonably defend your faith without exposing the massive holes in your logic.
If you want to defend an indefensible position, GO AHEAD. I'll wait.
But don't expect me not to call people out on clear lapses in logic or rationale.
Oh and as a former child of severe abuse who used to be completely against religion because I couldn't understand why God would allow an innocent child to have to deal with what I had to deal with it was only when I looked to Christianity to help me with forgiveness and letting go of the anger and being able to love my enemies and myself that I can be where I am today. I'm in a pretty good %#%*%%+ place.
With that said I hope you choke on a biscuit and a priest is the ONE that saves your life by preforming the heimlich maneuver you scum.
You've been given the %#%*%%+ thread what more do you want?
So answer the question you had when you were a child.
Why would a supposedly all-good and loving God allow innocent children like yourself to be severely abused? I want an answer to this. I might not deserve one according to you, but you deserve an answer.
What's this about loving your enemy and hope sillyputty chokes on a %#*%%$% BISCUIT and then to be saved by a Priest using SCIENCE?
Can yall see the utterly disgusting hypocrisy? How can yall not laugh at this?
cap29
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hey apparently I'm a half Christian. I can get away with that.
sillyputty
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BINGOOriginally Posted by Cap29
Based off of this reply you are the reason people hate atheist as a whole. You are that stereotype. You don't deserve FOR ANYONE to explain themselves to you.Originally Posted by sillyputty
Originally Posted by Cap29
just let him have the thread.He needs this WAY more than we do. Who knows what he has going in his life where he needs somebody or something to blame and can't do it so this is the next viable option.
Chill on the reverse psychology.
Its funny how you are able to yet again speak without backing up anything you're saying... Religious people love saying things that have no objective basis...but hey, thats what "faith" is right? I could just as easily say your faith-based stance is out of a need for you to explain away the fact your daddy wasnt there growing up or how your mom beat you for making waffles wrong or something stupid.
You came in here defending one religion OUT OF MANY...and i'm asking that if you're a christian why can't you be a hindu and yet you can't answer that.
Nor can you reasonably defend your faith without exposing the massive holes in your logic.
If you want to defend an indefensible position, GO AHEAD. I'll wait.
But don't expect me not to call people out on clear lapses in logic or rationale.
Oh and as a former child of severe abuse who used to be completely against religion because I couldn't understand why God would allow an innocent child to have to deal with what I had to deal with it was only when I looked to Christianity to help me with forgiveness and letting go of the anger and being able to love my enemies and myself that I can be where I am today. I'm in a pretty good %#%*%%+ place.
With that said I hope you choke on a biscuit and a priest is the ONE that saves your life by preforming the heimlich maneuver you scum.
You've been given the %#%*%%+ thread what more do you want?
I made that analogy up too.
I'm sorry you went through that but then you must know how it feels to have someone talk out of their behind and make stuff up.
So where do you get off telling me that "Who knows what he has going in his life where he needs somebody or something to blame and can't do it so this is the next viable option. "
You see what I'm saying here?
You started this. Not me. I wanted to talk about christianity. You wanted to talk about me and my motivations...of which YOU MADE UP FROM NO WHERE.
Now you know how it feels.
BTW, Christianity didn't make you let go of that anger. You're a good person who understands vengeance doesn't solve anything.
You dont need a religion to be moral and to feel compassion or empathy for others. Nor do you need it to let your enemies slide and to continue to live your life.
On top of that, wishing me harm, something I havent done to you, is EXACTLY why I'm against religion...because im some twisted way you justify unnecessary harm by rectifying it with some person who claims to talk to "gods"...Are you SERIOUS?
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Originally Posted by Cap29
hey apparently I'm a half Christian. I can get away with that.
Ain't no such things as half way crooks
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Originally Posted by Cap29
hey apparently I'm a half Christian. I can get away with that.
Uhh no.. You can't get away with that.
That's why we've called you out on your hypocrisy.
Calling you out on your hypocrisy =/= letting you get away with your hypocrisy. In fact, it's the exact opposite.
cap29
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Hey I'm already a bad/half Christian according to yall because I'm planning my debauchery full vacation. I acknowledge I'm a work in progress. Rogue as hell.
<--Christian
<--Christian
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Originally Posted by Cap29
Hey I'm already a bad/half Christian according to yall because I'm planning my debauchery full vacation. I acknowledge I'm a work in progress. Rogue as hell.
<--Christian
You're a bad Christian according to Christ.
Since you've made more plans to deliberately sin, you are not a work in progress. You are a work in regress.
sillyputty
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Whats so hard about admitting that you MAKE YOUR OWN RULES in absence of the religion you associate with.Originally Posted by Cap29
Hey I'm already a bad/half Christian according to yall because I'm planning my debauchery full vacation. I acknowledge I'm a work in progress. Rogue as hell.
<--Christian
If you were really a christian you wouldn't be having premartial sex for fear of being stoned...but thankfully society has moved on beyond that and we know how inhumane that is.
You're a religious hypocrite...in fact EVERY modern religious person in the US or a developed country is a hypocrite when it comes to religion.
You all CLEARLY do not follow the doctrines set forth in your "faith" and bend the rules to fit your own designations. On top of that, you claim to know what the omnipotent being you claim exists knows; somehow it "understands" your transgressions.
How do you know what that god is thinking outside of what you THINK your god is thinking? You're just making it up as you go along. And when called out on it, you cry foul and say people are attacking your religion or whatever nonsense you cling to.
In fact, I respect those who actually do what their holy books tell them to do...at least they're CONSISTENT. I don't have to worry that they will take things in their own liberal context and remain cultural christians or whatever for the sake of fitting in.
Every year religion persists it evolves due to secular pressure. Women and minorities would not have half the rights they have now if it were up to the original religious doctrine. Yet you all pick and choose the happy parts and overlook the controversial sad parts. It is all or nothing.
You're capable of thinking for yourself and its time you start acting like it.
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LOL @ the things he's admitted to believing in in this thread well after establishing that he believes every word int he Koran (I did a good job baiting him into that one)
-Beating women
-Slavery
-Murder of non-Muslims
What else can we get him to admit to?
I think both sides here are not arguing as logically when it comes to this debate on verses in the Qur'an.
First thing first, you do have to read those verse in the context of history. These verses were not used at all times as a carte blanche to kill infidels and non-believers. I also do agree with you in some cases.
Murder of non muslims - Looking at the history of when Prophet Mohammed founded Islam, it was used as a tool for political and economic reasons that formed an Arab identity. It basically served as the pillar of the rise of the Arab "nation".
Prophet Mohammed is seen as a philanthropist in the eyes of devout Muslims, but he was an army commander and a warrior who led the Arabs to triumph and conquest to build a powerful empire that succeeded to its prime centuries after his death. So yes, his hands are not clean of blood. He is no different than the greats like Napoleon and Genghis Khan.
So when you read these verses think of them in a context of conventional warfare.
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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Out of the the three monotheistic faiths, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, it is Islam that is the most progressive and advanced. [/font]
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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Slavery - Yes, Islam did not abolish it, but it was one of the first to see slavery as humans and provide "human rights" to slaves. But then again, look at the U.S. and how it was not abolished until 1808,right?[/font]
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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Veil - Different scholars disagree if it is mandatory. The verses are so vague that no one can say what it truly means. Some scholars argue that the verse demands to just cover your bosoms. The word "hijab" means to cover. There are no clear instructions to wear it around your face or even to wear one. It is Islamic scholars who instilled it. Let's also remember that wearing the veil did not became mainstream and widespread until about the late 1970s/early 1980s after the Iranian Khomeini revolution. Back in Kuwait, at 16 years old, my mom was the first to wear one in her class. It was more secular back then, and wearing the hijab was associated more with being religious. Now, it is more culture and identity as a Muslim woman. [/font]
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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Beating women - That's not true. No one knows what the word "idrib" means in that context. It has many meanings. It can even mean "to separate". Scholars interpret it to how they want to suit their intentions. [/font]
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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So, all in all, this is my take on it. Back when these religions were founded, why do some of you expect for them to be all fair with human rights?Of course they would be misogynistic and sexist. At those times, human rights were not even essential when it came to many spheres of society. Take these foundations of these religions for what they were meant to be used for at the time for the functions of those societies. In this day and age, we still struggle with human rights to be fair and just. Islam was certainly not, but given when it was founded, and given the context of itshistory, it was a bit more progressive than others at the time. [/font]
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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The issue I think you should debate is the fact people follow institutionalized religious laws instilled 1400 years ago. But, what some have done is changed the context a bit to fit modern times. [/font]
You're claiming "idrib" doesn't really have to mean hit "in that context"
and you're claiming that the Hijab isn't obligatory/is vague ?
Are you sure you understand what the VAST majority of Islam's premier scholars have ruled on these issues ? Are you aware of the strength of the evidences for the views ?
What legitimate scholars/evidences do you have for your claims ? By that I mean actual verses/authentic Hadith and rulings from respected scholars. Trying to portray things as just vague and reliant on the whims of whatever an individual scholar interprets as "for his own intentions" when in reality there are very strong evidences for the rulings is just plain dumb.
I can easily cite deviant sects...random youtube scholars.... articles written by non-scholars...or even a couple of scholars who reached different conclusions (very small %)... and claim so and so is "vague" while ignoring the mountain of evidence to the contrary.
lol @ anton claiming to have "baited me" into saying I believe every word of the Qur'an, (duh... it's a fundamental belief in Islam) as if this is something I'm supposed to be ashamed of or isn't a requirement of 1.3+ billion Muslims... anyone who claims to be Muslim but doesn't believe in every word of the Qur'an is surely a disbeliever.
How dumb is it to list things I "support" without any context/clarification... Look i can do the same
Oh you are a US citizen ? You support
- Murder
- Locking up people in cages for the rest of their lives
- Seizing property
This is how childish/stupid the tactics of the atheists are in making arguments