R.I.P Trayvon

[hand2handking]

lol at stalking, initiating, confronting and killing a black youth in self defense....it's not fair to describe GZ's actions like that and not describe scott's actions the same way.

i wouldnt say GZ was stalking...he was suspicious of TM, so he was keeping an eye on him.

you are a good example of how media can portray someone as being good or bad.

Let me use the same strategic use of words you provided for these 2 separate but similar cases....but ill be more honest.

Scott woke up 3 in the morning because he saw 3 kids around a car, so i guess he stalked, initiated, confronted, and killed a white youth in self defense. lol u and ur words homeboy.

the article i read didnt say he woke up at 3am and went outside to see what was going on. either way, an attempted carjacking is likely to make some noise or attract some attention so i dont find it implausible.  and no, the circumstances are still not the same because in this case the night watchman would have had to already be outside and see them acting suspicious around a car vs. just walking with a hoody on.

 

[dayman]

i never said the actual incident during that night were facts. I said the video provided facts about TM's and GZ's background that many people probably would not have known about. So again, stop twisting my words around to make me look like a fool. ok? cool thanks.

When i stated that TM attacked first, I am basing it on the witnesses and the evidence that were provided in the trial. Anything else you want to say and try to make me look like a fool?

There was only 1 witness who knows who initiated a physical altercation and that is the man who's freedom was on the line.  There is no reason anyone should make a statement like this one:

sure GZ may have instigated it, but TM initiated the attack and continued with the beating.

It's completely speculation with NO shred of proof.

I'm not twisting your words around but I'd argue that plenty of HS junior/senior age kids get into alcohol/some form of drugs in 2012.  Not just black but white/hispanic/asian etc.  Your boy in the video inferring that he was going home to make lean holds no weight because 1) its spectulation and 2) it doesn't have any admissibility in court nor should it in the matter of public opinion.

I had been drunk and "was into MMA activities" when I was 17 too... Guess I wasn't a "saint" either.

you're right that it's all speculation and there's not many solid evidence for either sides. My speculation is what I got from the trial and so did the jury.

Like I said man....that video was simply to disprove the idea that TM was saint, which was being portrayed by the media. Not only did TM do drugs, but he was also involved in possible robberies and vandalism with multiple suspensions from school. He damn sure wasn't a good boy. I started smoking and drinking when I was in 8th grade and im korean btw. Was I a good boy? Nope, but I still didn't get into trouble. My friends at that time did physically harm and rob kids, but i didnt. Still, I dont consider myself as good kid back then.

Okay so if you were in Trayvons shoes and you were killed due to be (I don't think anyone disputes this) being profiled and the chain of events thereafter led to your death, you'd think its fair (remember, you're dead viewing this in hindsight) that people are digging into your history of smoking and drinking and looking at your friends who robbed people is fair to you? You'd think that it applies to WHY you are dead?

honest answer? i dont see what's wrong with the media digging into my history to find out what type of person i was. But it has been 10 years since my days as a kid who thought he was the shhh, so my history wouldnt really relate to my present personality. I'm a change man. I dont start beef with anyone and I dont like fighting, unless i absolutely have to.

If I was 15 or 16 and I resulted in the same fate as TM with the background of smoking, drinking, having delinquent friends, etc. then yes, it should be used to find out what type of person i was.

But the reason why TM was dead was not because he drinks and smokes. He got shot because he kept beating GZ, even though GZ was yelling for help.

 

[dayman]

lol at stalking, initiating, confronting and killing a black youth in self defense....it's not fair to describe GZ's actions like that and not describe scott's actions the same way.

i wouldnt say GZ was stalking...he was suspicious of TM, so he was keeping an eye on him.

you are a good example of how media can portray someone as being good or bad.

Let me use the same strategic use of words you provided for these 2 separate but similar cases....but ill be more honest.

Scott woke up 3 in the morning because he saw 3 kids around a car, so i guess he stalked, initiated, confronted, and killed a white youth in self defense. lol u and ur words homeboy.

the article i read didnt say he woke up at 3am and went outside to see what was going on. either way, an attempted carjacking is likely to make some noise or attract some attention so i dont find it implausible.  and no, the circumstances are still not the same because in this case the night watchman would have had to already be outside and see them acting suspicious around a car vs. just walking with a hoody on.

lol, ok well the article read said he woke up 3 am. Anyways, im not gonna argue with u for these 2 cases. It's very similar and in fact, I think GZ was more justified to use his gun.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

The establishment has been doing this for years.

Something horrible happens to Black people, somehow spin it to where its our fault.

Has the Trayvon is a gay basher been brought up yet? I only come in to comment when I see something ridiculous on the homepage.

 

[hand2handking]

lol, ok well the article read said he woke up 3 am. Anyways, im not gonna argue with u for these 2 cases. It's very similar and in fact, I think GZ was more justified to use his gun.

 

[hand2handking]

lol at stalking, initiating, confronting and killing a black youth in self defense....it's not fair to describe GZ's actions like that and not describe scott's actions the same way.

i wouldnt say GZ was stalking...he was suspicious of TM, so he was keeping an eye on him.

you are a good example of how media can portray someone as being good or bad.

Let me use the same strategic use of words you provided for these 2 separate but similar cases....but ill be more honest.

Scott woke up 3 in the morning because he saw 3 kids around a car, so i guess he stalked, initiated, confronted, and killed a white youth in self defense. lol u and ur words homeboy.

so he couldnt properly do that from the safety of his vehicle?

and u brought up 3am, but how is that even relatable to 7pm?  At 3am, i would think a reasonable person would have every right to wonder what three teenagers are doing on the street.

 

[gllahone84]

now you're being unfair. You have to pick one of the choices. You cant just change the scenario i provided lol

Look at the choices given. You leave me no choice...but in comparison with the TM case this is where you've completely lost me.

Zimmerman and Trayvon were in a one on one confrontation, and there are other factors that you have not put into perspective such as the perusal of TM by Zimmerman, and also the fact that the story given by Zimmerman is not consistent. Did Zimmerman notice Trayvon breaking into houses, or was he just suspected of criminal activity? 

Keep that in mind, because it seems as if the black guy who shot witnessed an actual car break in by 3 guys, and as a result tried to prevent any more from occurring by calling the police. He didn't necessarily take matters into his own hands until being charged, and with two guys waiting in the wing to possibly attack as well...come on, I see why he may have felt threatened.

Now, did you bring up this case of self defense because the guy who happened to shoot was black, and the victim was white? 

Because you're scenarios fit well into that narrative, but it does not add anything for contemplation in regards to the Zimmerman case. 

First off, a 3 on 1 confrontation? Now you're being unfair by even trying to contrast this situation with Trayvon's.

 

[dayman]

lol at stalking, initiating, confronting and killing a black youth in self defense....it's not fair to describe GZ's actions like that and not describe scott's actions the same way.

i wouldnt say GZ was stalking...he was suspicious of TM, so he was keeping an eye on him.

you are a good example of how media can portray someone as being good or bad.

Let me use the same strategic use of words you provided for these 2 separate but similar cases....but ill be more honest.

Scott woke up 3 in the morning because he saw 3 kids around a car, so i guess he stalked, initiated, confronted, and killed a white youth in self defense. lol u and ur words homeboy.

so he couldnt properly do that from the safety of his vehicle?

and u brought up 3am, but how is that even relatable to 7pm?  At 3am, i would think a reasonable person would have every right to wonder what three teenagers are doing on the street.

he couldnt do it from the safety of his vehicle. He didnt want to lose him.

it's similar that they are both self defense cases. Both confronted possible suspects (yes the white car jacker is still considered a suspect) and the suspects initiated the physical altercation (the white kid was about to initiate the attack). Both guys pulled out their guns and shot the suspects due to self defense.

Yes the time is different and the approach is slightly different, but the actual incident of both cases are similar. Anything else buddy?

 

[dayman]

now you're being unfair. You have to pick one of the choices. You cant just change the scenario i provided lol

Look at the choices given. You leave me no choice...but in comparison with the TM case this is where you've completely lost me.

Zimmerman and Trayvon were in a one on one confrontation, and there are other factors that you have not put into perspective such as the perusal of TM by Zimmerman, and also the fact that the story given by Zimmerman is not consistent. Did Zimmerman notice Trayvon breaking into houses, or was he just suspected of criminal activity? 

Keep that in mind, because it seems as if the black guy who shot witnessed an actual car break in by 3 guys, and as a result tried to prevent any more from occurring by calling the police. He didn't necessarily take matters into his own hands until being charged, and with two guys waiting in the wing to possibly attack as well...come on, I see why he may have felt threatened.

Now, did you bring up this case of self defense because the guy who happened to shoot was black, and the victim was white? 

Because you're scenarios fit well into that narrative, but it does not add anything for contemplation in regards to the Zimmerman case. 

First off, a 3 on 1 confrontation? Now you're being unfair by even trying to contrast this situation with Trayvon's.

why are u bringing up the TM case? we were talking about the blk guy shooting the white kid scenario. If the blk guy was your dad, what would you have him do?

Simple as that...if you are not satisfied with the choices that i provided, then make your own. But it has to be your dad in that blk guy's situation, as in he is about to be charged by the white kid. 

 

[gllahone84]

why are u bringing up the TM case? we were talking about the blk guy shooting the white kid scenario. If the blk guy was your dad, what would you have him do?

Simple as that...if you are not satisfied with the choices that i provided, then make your own. But it has to be your dad in that blk guy's situation, as in he is about to be charged by the white kid. 

This thread is about the TM case right? So I'm tying both together, and why even mention this case? Is it to divert attention from what is already being discussed.

I answered your question for the record. I would have shot more than likely if I was in his shoes. But that does nothing to change my opinion about the TM case which this thread is centered around. 

 

[dayman]

why are u bringing up the TM case? we were talking about the blk guy shooting the white kid scenario. If the blk guy was your dad, what would you have him do?

Simple as that...if you are not satisfied with the choices that i provided, then make your own. But it has to be your dad in that blk guy's situation, as in he is about to be charged by the white kid. 

This thread is about the TM case right? So I'm tying both together, and why even mention this case? Is it to divert attention from what is already being discussed.

I answered your question for the record. I would have shot more than likely if I was in his shoes. But that does nothing to change my opinion about the TM case which this thread is centered around. 

right. but our conversation was about the blk guys case because u 'smh' when i commented on the blk guy's case.

Go back one page if u dont remember what happened lol

 

[hand2handking]

he couldnt do it from the safety of his vehicle. He didnt want to lose him.

it's similar that they are both self defense cases. Both confronted possible suspects (yes the white car jacker is still considered a suspect) and the suspects initiated the physical altercation (the white kid was about to initiate the attack). Both guys pulled out their guns and shot the suspects due to self defense.

Yes the time is different and the approach is slightly different, but the actual incident of both cases are similar. Anything else buddy?

this is speculation to grant GZ any grounds to self defense.  The cause for suspicion is different.  The fact that there are witnesses is different.   The only similarity is a parallel between the races of the neighborhood watch and the teenagers.  Trying to draw any deeper correlations than that is simply a blatant attempt to race bait, no different than bringing up "Chicago" as a defense.

 

[dayman]

he couldnt do it from the safety of his vehicle. He didnt want to lose him.

it's similar that they are both self defense cases. Both confronted possible suspects (yes the white car jacker is still considered a suspect) and the suspects initiated the physical altercation (the white kid was about to initiate the attack). Both guys pulled out their guns and shot the suspects due to self defense.

Yes the time is different and the approach is slightly different, but the actual incident of both cases are similar. Anything else buddy?

this is speculation to grant GZ any grounds to self defense.  The cause for suspicion is different.  The fact that there are witnesses is different.   The only similarity is a parallel between the races of the neighborhood watch and the teenagers.  Trying to draw any deeper correlations than that is simply a blatant attempt to race bait, no different than bringing up "Chicago" as a defense.

both of these are categorized as self defense cases. You're the one going deeper into each cases trying to pin point every difference.

I think GZ was more justified to use his gun than the blk guy.

 

[gllahone84]

right. but our conversation was about the blk guys case because u 'smh' when i commented on the blk guy's case.

Go back one page if u dont remember what happened lol

I already answered that...but I asked why did you bring that case in here? 

 

[hand2handking]

both of these are categorized as self defense cases. You're the one going deeper into each cases trying to pin point every difference.

I think GZ was more justified to use his gun than the blk guy.

yes you are trying to generalize both of these situations when they are clearly different.  GZ's case should not be a self defense case at all, that is what im trying to say.  Just because it was classified by people who had an interest in seeing it as self defense doesnt mean it was.

 

[dayman]

right. but our conversation was about the blk guys case because u 'smh' when i commented on the blk guy's case.

Go back one page if u dont remember what happened lol

I already answered that...but I asked why did you bring that case in here? 

did i? did i really?

 

[dayman]

both of these are categorized as self defense cases. You're the one going deeper into each cases trying to pin point every difference.

I think GZ was more justified to use his gun than the blk guy.

yes you are trying to generalize both of these situations when they are clearly different.  GZ's case should not be a self defense case at all, that is what im trying to say.  Just because it was classified by people who had an interest in seeing it as self defense doesnt mean it was.

how the hell is it not a self defense case? u really rustled me by saying that. GZ's life was on the line and u expect him to just die there on the floor????? or become a vegetable???? c'mon man...use your common sense. If someone is banging my head against the concrete, im gonna shoot the attacker. i dont give a eff. It's either my life or his and i value mine way more.

 

[hand2handking]

how the hell is it not a self defense case? u really rustled me by saying that. GZ's life was on the line and u expect him to just die there on the floor????? or become a vegetable???? c'mon man...use your common sense. If someone is banging my head against the concrete, im gonna shoot the attacker. i dont give a eff. It's either my life or his and i value mine way more.

come on man, you mean to tell me a 17 year old kid is going to kill or paralyze a man in the middle of his neighborhood and just smooth walk home after that? that makes sense to you?

 

[fantastic4our]

neOutside of them both (kinda) being Neighborhood Watchmen, these two cases are VERY different. One victim was viewed committing a crime (with witnesses). The other was not. And still no eyewitness or physical evidence confirms the "fact" that TM struck first. So.....

 

[gllahone84]

did i? did i really?

Well my bad if you didn't...but when I quoted the post covering the case you came out like you had an issue with me smh...

 

[dayman]

how the hell is it not a self defense case? u really rustled me by saying that. GZ's life was on the line and u expect him to just die there on the floor????? or become a vegetable???? c'mon man...use your common sense. If someone is banging my head against the concrete, im gonna shoot the attacker. i dont give a eff. It's either my life or his and i value mine way more.

come on man, you mean to tell me a 17 year old kid is going to kill or paralyze a man in the middle of his neighborhood and just smooth walk home after that? that makes sense to you?

TM was a trained MMA fighter with a violent mindset when it comes to fighting. He said he wanted a rematch with a fighter because he did not bleed enough. Imagine that mindset along with the aggression he got from GZ. TM was ground and pounding GZ and banging his head against the concrete floor, while GZ was yelling for help. You can very EASILY kill someone by maliciously banging their head against the floor. Have you seen the cuts on the back of GZ's head?

i can provide tons of medical source and im currently in nursing school, so i know how the human body works. I can easily call my brother and friends who are doctors to support my statement, too. You wont get paralyzed by banging your head against the floor, but u can easily get hemorrhage and die. I banged my head once against a wall and I got mini seizure. I dont think you know how dangerous what TM was doing to GZ, so you're taking it so lightly.

 

[gllahone84]

TM was a trained MMA fighter with a violent mindset when it comes to fighting. He said he wanted a rematch with a fighter because he did not bleed enough. Imagine that mindset along with the aggression he got from GZ. TM was ground and pounding GZ and banging his head against the concrete floor, while GZ was yelling for help. You can very EASILY kill someone by maliciously banging their head against the floor. Have you seen the cuts on the back of GZ's head?

i can provide tons of medical source and im currently in nursing school, so i know how the human body works. I can easily call my brother and friends who are doctors to support my statement, too. You wont get paralyzed by banging your head against the floor, but u can easily get hemorrhage and die. I banged my head once against a wall and I got mini seizure. I dont think you know how dangerous what TM was doing to GZ, so you're taking it so lightly.

 

[dayman]

TM was a trained MMA fighter with a violent mindset when it comes to fighting. He said he wanted a rematch with a fighter because he did not bleed enough. Imagine that mindset along with the aggression he got from GZ. TM was ground and pounding GZ and banging his head against the concrete floor, while GZ was yelling for help. You can very EASILY kill someone by maliciously banging their head against the floor. Have you seen the cuts on the back of GZ's head?

i can provide tons of medical source and im currently in nursing school, so i know how the human body works. I can easily call my brother and friends who are doctors to support my statement, too. You wont get paralyzed by banging your head against the floor, but u can easily get hemorrhage and die. I banged my head once against a wall and I got mini seizure. I dont think you know how dangerous what TM was doing to GZ, so you're taking it so lightly.

i should have wrote 'trained in mma fighting'....my bad lol

 

[hand2handking]

TM was a trained MMA fighter with a violent mindset when it comes to fighting. He said he wanted a rematch with a fighter because he did not bleed enough. Imagine that mindset along with the aggression he got from GZ. TM was ground and pounding GZ and banging his head against the concrete floor, while GZ was yelling for help. You can very EASILY kill someone by maliciously banging their head against the floor. Have you seen the cuts on the back of GZ's head?

i can provide tons of medical source and im currently in nursing school, so i know how the human body works. I can easily call my brother and friends who are doctors to support my statement, too. You wont get paralyzed by banging your head against the floor, but u can easily get hemorrhage and die. I banged my head once against a wall and I got mini seizure. I dont think you know how dangerous what TM was doing to GZ, so you're taking it so lightly.

i seen the pcitures and i aint see all of that what u talking about.  none of that MMA stuff says he was going to kill GZ or maim him in any kind of way.  and if its as bad as all that, was GZ about to lose consciousness?  he was on the verge of blacking out?  did he coherently go for his gun or was it punch drunk reflex?  Why did GZ not deem it necessary to fight back at all, not throw not one punch or anything?  I dont think it was ever definitely proven who was screaming for help either.

 

[celticsfan9783]

Damn dudes in here really trying to throw dirt on Trayvon's name. You have to remember he was a 17 year old male. When we were that age many of us liked to get into scraps, be tough guys, we all assume the bad boy image at one point, most of us smoked a little herb, drank a little, played with knives, got caught stealing/cheating. Boys will be boys.

Not every teenager is a saint. It's not completely abnormal to do the things that Trayvon is accused of. People are reaching hard after the fact. You can predict behavior B off of behavior A. It's a lot more complex.