Religious PSA... Vol. For religious types, spititual people, and non-believers alike

[bottom74bottom]

REAL TALK..

now listen...

"BELIEVE" is the most powerful word known to man. It's our strongest weapon and biggest weakness as human beings. It unifies us as much as it divides us. Some people BELIEVE the answer to this division is converting all people to one faith. That will NEVER happen. Why? Because people BELIEVE in things that are bigger than life itself. People live fr their BELIEFS, and die to propagate them. But BELIEVING in something does not make it right just as not BELIEVING in something doesn't make it wrong.

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You can BELIEVE a lie just the same as you can not BELIEVE (doubt) the truth.

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Furthermore, you will never, EVER know which of those pairs of shoes defines YOU in this lifetime. Just walk.. Don't worry about whether it's Nikes or Jays.. If there is a God as we have him defined, I BELIEVE he'd rather see you walking in faith than fighting over it, regardless of which faith you choose or whether you're walking to Mecca or the Kingdom Hall down the block. We're all equally ignorant at this point. The most enlightened of us don't pretend to know more than the next man, woman,  or pope. whether you kneel and pray, fold your hands, or audit.. we're all trying to find the same answer to life..

Whichever way your pendulum swings, always remember that everyone on this planet has a system of BELIEFS about their origin and their purpose on this planet. Whether or not you agree with them does not undermine their NEED to have a firm structure of BELIEF. We all have one. For some it's religion. For others its capitalism, or despotism, or some form of organized government. For others it's a lack or organization that they BELIEVE in.  For some, it's Satanism. For others it's one of the thousands of flavors of "Higher Power-ism". Some people BELIEVE that there's nothing out there to BELIEVE in, and that in and of itself is a BELIEF system

Do YOU. But do YOU with respect to others..That's all I had to say.. that's all I ever really have to say.. I hope ya'll feel me..

 

[ph3n0m3n0n]

sounds like a John Mayer song I've heard. I think it's called belief. had a lot less words though.

 

[cz7]

I think belief is just the thing science, reason, and logic are trying to get rid of. So one day we can say we KNOW how the world came about, how life began, what happens after we die, etc.  I can't claim to know all these things now, but I also don't claim to believe some supernatural force is the reason either because that simply....doesn't make a bit of sense.

 

[torgriffith]

Well put. People need knowledge more so than a belief system imo.
that way we won't spend half a lifetime arguing over who believes in what, rather we can get to what we all are suppose to be doing. Kingdom Building. People are so mislead into believing whatever powers may be, that they seek to work towards building temples for entities they do not completely understand because they only believe rather than know.

 

[bottom74bottom]

Originally Posted by Cz7

I think belief is just the thing science, reason, and logic are trying to get rid of. So one day we can say we KNOW how the world came about, how life began, what happens after we die, etc.  I can't claim to know all these things now, but I also don't claim to believe some supernatural force is the reason either because that simply....doesn't make a bit of sense.

A science book is as nonsensical to some as a religious book is to others. You only BELIEVE what's in the books. It's all BELIEF. There's not ONE scientist today that can say the laws of physics are irrefutable. Science is a religion..

Well put. People need knowledge more so than a belief system imo.
that way we won't spend half a lifetime arguing over who believes in what, rather we can get to what we all are suppose to be doing. Kingdom Building. People are so mislead into believing whatever powers may be, that they seek to work towards building temples for entities they do not completely understand because they only believe rather than know.
Look over your head... I'm up there. You're almost there, but you're missed your exit. Just take the next one and double back..

You have to remove the we, and replace it with I. There is no universal plan for Man that Man is aware of. All we can do is speculate. Now because I believe in a higher power, I believe that power not only knows but is the plan. But NONE of us can speak for certain on what ALL of us need to be doing. Just because you are convinced of your purpose and place in life does not mean you should convinvce others of theirs, contrary to what EVERY. religious book says. People can only define themselves. You can't change people. If you could, someone would have figured out how by now and there would only be one faith - right or wrong.  But you can't, and so you shouldn't try IMO.

 

[jerome in the house]

Too many religious threads on NT this morning.

 

[bottom74bottom]

Originally Posted by Jerome in the House

Too many religious threads on NT this morning.

Make a booty thread then.. no one's begging for your participation here..

 

[mo matik]

The problem is that everyone seems to act as if they know everything about every belief system.

This lack of education leads to generalizations and simplifications, as well as an opening to misinformation.

 

[cz7]

Originally Posted by BOTTOM74BOTTOM

Originally Posted by Cz7

I think belief is just the thing science, reason, and logic are trying to get rid of. So one day we can say we KNOW how the world came about, how life began, what happens after we die, etc.  I can't claim to know all these things now, but I also don't claim to believe some supernatural force is the reason either because that simply....doesn't make a bit of sense.

A science book is as nonsensical to some as a religious book is to others. You only BELIEVE what's in the books. It's all BELIEF. There's not ONE scientist today that can say the laws of physics are irrefutable. Science is a religion..

So what you are saying is we can't really KNOW anything?

 

[bottom74bottom]

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

The problem is that everyone seems to act as if they know everything about every belief system.

This lack of education leads to generalizations and simplifications, as well as an opening to misinformation.

...when most people don't know POOP about what is is they themselves claim to be.. that's why I don't claim a religion. I just possess ideas and hypotheses which can always be tested and re-evaluated. There's no need to have a concrete indoctrinated faith. Ask yourself, would you rather go to "hell" (or its equivalent) for trying to figure out this world and what you're supposed to be doing in it.. or would you rather go to "hell" for being too lazy to go to "hell" for not trying?? There's only a slim chance any of us will escape the "pits of hell". All outr books tell us we're imperfect and we !#$! up all the time. So if I'm probably unworthy of "heaven". well before  go, I'd rather piece the world together for myself -- which is a lot of work, but it's better than sitting on my +%* for 70 years and waiting to find out if some guy who wrote a book 1000 years ago was right. What if he isn't?  So many people follow another person to church.. follow others' ideas..etc.. and its only because these ideas are valid. Are they accurate? Who the !#$! knows?! But they're validated in time and popularity. I don't wanna explain to God on judgement day that "I didn't know any better because somebody told me Peter nem said this.. and John nem said that.. but in actuality Peter and John said such and such but it was tampered with by X and Y". I think God would stoneface me for wasting MY life time following some one else's life's work and send me to hell just for being too lazy to apply the intelligence he gave me..

 

[torgriffith]

Originally Posted by BOTTOM74BOTTOM

Originally Posted by Cz7

I think belief is just the thing science, reason, and logic are trying to get rid of. So one day we can say we KNOW how the world came about, how life began, what happens after we die, etc.  I can't claim to know all these things now, but I also don't claim to believe some supernatural force is the reason either because that simply....doesn't make a bit of sense.

A science book is as nonsensical to some as a religious book is to others. You only BELIEVE what's in the books. It's all BELIEF. There's not ONE scientist today that can say the laws of physics are irrefutable. Science is a religion..

Well put. People need knowledge more so than a belief system imo.
that way we won't spend half a lifetime arguing over who believes in what, rather we can get to what we all are suppose to be doing. Kingdom Building. People are so mislead into believing whatever powers may be, that they seek to work towards building temples for entities they do not completely understand because they only believe rather than know.

Look over your head... I'm up there. You're almost there, but you're missed your exit. Just take the next one and double back..

You have to remove the we, and replace it with I. There is no universal plan for Man that Man is aware of. All we can do is speculate. Now because I believe in a higher power, I believe that power not only knows but is the plan. But NONE of us can speak for certain on what ALL of us need to be doing. Just because you are convinced of your purpose and place in life does not mean you should convinvce others of theirs, contrary to what EVERY. religious book says. People can only define themselves. You can't change people. If you could, someone would have figured out how by now and there would only be one faith - right or wrong.  But you can't, and so you shouldn't try IMO.


word.

 

[bottom74bottom]

Originally Posted by Cz7

Originally Posted by BOTTOM74BOTTOM

Originally Posted by Cz7

I think belief is just the thing science, reason, and logic are trying to get rid of. So one day we can say we KNOW how the world came about, how life began, what happens after we die, etc.  I can't claim to know all these things now, but I also don't claim to believe some supernatural force is the reason either because that simply....doesn't make a bit of sense.

A science book is as nonsensical to some as a religious book is to others. You only BELIEVE what's in the books. It's all BELIEF. There's not ONE scientist today that can say the laws of physics are irrefutable. Science is a religion..

So what you are saying is we can't really KNOW anything?

If a prophet was born with all the answers to the future and he walked up to you naked and told you your future... would YOU believe it or take it as pure fact? What if that same person was a priest... or a rabbi.. or just a rapper from the G like me...? Perception makes fact..  the only absolute truth is above and beyond human perseption.

For lack of a better analogy (and I really, really, really didn't wanna use this)... think of the Matrix. If you're in and of the matrix (a bluepill), is it not a fact that your "real world" is exactly what you experience day in and day out? Why wouldn't it be? Seriously? And would you not have to be removed from that realm completely to even almost see it any other way?


They say Jesus spoke in riddles and parables. I get it.. I'm the same way. It's more accurate to be analogous. Similies and metaphors explain a lot more than specific statements.  It's like fractions... 2/3 is indefinitely more accurate than .6666666666666666666666666666666666666666667 because it's a SYMBOL of a quantity that can be applied universally whereas that decimal is just that -- exactly what it says it is. A fraction symbolizes a quantity instead of trying to define it. The matrix symbolizes a lot of the issues of perception and reality instead of trying to define them. If you can follow the analogies, you'll piece together a lot of your own world. By putting these things under the microscope and giving the audience the same omniscient POV of God, it satirizes everything. You can see the mechanisms of this movie so clearly. Just cross multiply... and solve for God's perspective over Earth.. 

 

[koudie from brooklyn]

Perception is Reality.. Great Thread OP

 

[bottom74bottom]

Originally Posted by Koudie From BroOklyn

Perception is Reality.. Great Thread OP

Thanks..

I always try to remember there's like 13 Inuit words for what I just call "snow"... which means my reality doesn't care enough to re-define all the intricacies of weather. It's not that important to me. I'm sure there's not a billion Chinese words for the various sub genres of hip-hop music, though. That's life. My anthro professor told me the Navajo language doesn't have a future tense (or something like that). So much of my reality is what I will be doing or what I want to be later on. Yeah, perception is definitely reality man.. people need to realize this and stop fighting over who's reality is more valid... cuz NO ONE knows which one is more accurate... we're all just living man..

 

[mr kuter]

There was a scene in The Book of Eli that reminds me of this. Denzel had a guy charging his battery, but was trying to get out of town. The guy was nervous, and wasn't supposed to allow Denzel to leave. Denzel tells the guy, "tell them I made you do it......say it..." The man then speaks the same words. If you speak it, you then begin to believe it type innuendo I felt like.

Second point of my same theme though, Do we really believe what we say?

For instance, I have a friend, a girl, that really likes this guy shes known for a long time. And in many ways has convinced herself that he does like her, just hasnt vocalized this.
So to what extent is this true? Shes created a false reality, but its her reality none the less. How do our "I"s, interact and mold with everyone else's own realities, or false realities?
Is her reality true or not??

Seems a main problem is that most of the world has been taught that our life is not our own. That we owe it to God, servants if you will, and yet we have free will. Despite him giving us this free will, he wants us to follow his instructions or directions. This leads to our thoughts of WE and community, the absurdly odd idea of one massive robot-esque society.

Really appreciate the topic, hopefully this thread won't die.

 

[warmachine]

Perception isn't reality. You're still wrong. I can believe I am the best Basketball player in the world. That doesn't make it anymore true. OP sounds like he suffers from psychosis.

 

[pleasurephd]

Originally Posted by Cz7

I think belief is just the thing science, reason, and logic are trying to get rid of. So one day we can say we KNOW how the world came about, how life began, what happens after we die, etc.  I can't claim to know all these things now, but I also don't claim to believe some supernatural force is the reason either because that simply....doesn't make a bit of sense.

FALSE. I BELIEVE in quantum physics. But, is it a fact? No, its the best theory we can test as of right now.

 

[pleasurephd]

Originally Posted by WarMachine

Perception isn't reality. You're still wrong. I can believe I am the best Basketball player in the world. That doesn't make it anymore true. OP sounds like he suffers from psychosis.

This.

Just like the thing I posted in another thread. About the dude in my friends philosophy of religion class that said he didn't believe in dinosaurs cause its not in the bible, and when my friend asked what about all the fossils in the museums that they dig out of the ground? His reply was I've never seen them. LOL

 

[Master Zik]

I always like to say "I don't believe in believing" or I don't put much faith (if any) in the act of believing. I may use the word but there isn't much worth put behind it. My whole world won't come crashing down if something I happened to believe in is false, I'd simply be happy that I was fortunate enough to acquire new truths.

I put more value in thought, ideas, and attaining absolutes.

 

[mangudai954]

Originally Posted by Master Zik

I always like to say "I don't believe in believing" or I don't put much faith (if any) in the act of believing. I may use the word but there isn't much worth put behind it. My whole world won't come crashing down if something I happened to believe in is false, I'd simply be happy that I was fortunate enough to acquire new truths.

I put more value in thought, ideas, and attaining absolutes.

Exactly.

 

[mf doomer]

Perception is indeed reality, belief in individualized "truth" whatever it may be could be brought into ones reality if it's strong enough. To say perception isn't reality is ridiculous to the mere fact that the thought of life itself had to be based on some perception of creation.

 

[bottom74bottom]

Originally Posted by WarMachine

Perception isn't reality. You're still wrong. I can believe I am the best Basketball player in the world. That doesn't make it anymore true. OP sounds like he suffers from psychosis.

You're so normal.. I'm crazy because you don't agree with me. And what you believe is absolute. Got it. It's actually kinda cute, in a sad way.

 

[Deleted member 41114]

-

 

[Master Zik]

To the dude who said perception isn't reality and the guy that agreed with him you're just pitching a type of skepticism epistemological nihilism. Your argument starts and ends there. If you can't know reality through your own perception then you're basically saying we can't know anything. Aint nothing to argue with if you have that view.

 

[pleasurephd]

Originally Posted by tml09

Originally Posted by PleasurePhD

Originally Posted by WarMachine

Perception isn't reality. You're still wrong. I can believe I am the best Basketball player in the world. That doesn't make it anymore true. OP sounds like he suffers from psychosis.

This.

Just like the thing I posted in another thread. About the dude in my friends philosophy of religion class that said he didn't believe in dinosaurs cause its not in the bible, and when my friend asked what about all the fossils in the museums that they dig out of the ground? His reply was I've never seen them. LOL

YOUR perception is YOUR reality. MY perception is MY reality. If I believe I'm the best bb player in the world, then I am. When someone eventually hands me my #!% in a game of one on one, I'll change my perception and in turn my reality. Life is experience. You believe in X, something challenges that belief and refutes it, then you change your perception and this becomes the new reality. You realize: "I am not the basketball player I thought I was". There are some people who do not change their perceptions no matter what: religous people, political parties, and just plain old ignorant people fit under that umbrella.

Only to a certain extent. OP talking about absolutes, well if you never perceive something it doesn't mean its not there or true. That is an absolute. I am talking about knowing through experience and knowing through others experiences that you have not been there to witness. 

Same exact words came of out this white dudes mouth when I was arguing against him that racism still exists. You know what he said? "Well I have never seen it so therefore it doesn't exist anymore in my experiences." Perception is reality, but you must believe in things that you have not witnessed.

How many of you actually seen microtubules form in your cells or electrons orbiting protons and neutrons? NO ONE, so it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. In reality it does happen, but you have never witnessed it. YOUR perception and experience would mean that you don't believe in it and its not true.