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Rick Perry: Middle Income Americans Don't Pay Enough Income Taxes
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by finnns2003,
- Start date
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Yet the highest tax bracket is being taxed at an all time low
foxdawg2000
Supporter
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I'd like to hear a NT economic expert's opinion on tax code.. From my understanding it's quite simple for the wealthy to use loopholes to avert even their supposed tax grouping... From a historical standpoint trickle down economics have been a complete failure IMO.. Interested in the other side of the argument if someone may...
Tax planning and strategy is not simple, in the least. It takes time and proper structuring because it's very simple to F up. The extremely wealthy have Family Partnerships and Corporations set up to funnel business/charities through and take advantage of whatever tax benefit they can.
Individuals run into difficulties because of a variety reasons including the fact without a mortgage most of us cannot itemize deductions. If you can't itemize deductions, there's a whole lot you're not going to be able to realize in order to lower your effective rate.
Taking what Finns posted at face value based solely on the thread title, F you Perry. Tell me, what IS the middle class? Define it for me. Get your grubby hand out of my pocket.
Federal standards for the longest time have basically defined $250k as rich, so I can only imagine what the middle class amount is. $125k?? Let me tell you something, yes it's a good amount of money, but both amounts are hardly rich in high taxed/living states (NY, MA, CA - right off the bat). Before my wife started her own business, combined we were around $120-130k. We sure didn't feel/act/live rich...and to boot, we paid plenty of taxes.
Pisses me off.
Individuals run into difficulties because of a variety reasons including the fact without a mortgage most of us cannot itemize deductions. If you can't itemize deductions, there's a whole lot you're not going to be able to realize in order to lower your effective rate.
Taking what Finns posted at face value based solely on the thread title, F you Perry. Tell me, what IS the middle class? Define it for me. Get your grubby hand out of my pocket.
Federal standards for the longest time have basically defined $250k as rich, so I can only imagine what the middle class amount is. $125k?? Let me tell you something, yes it's a good amount of money, but both amounts are hardly rich in high taxed/living states (NY, MA, CA - right off the bat). Before my wife started her own business, combined we were around $120-130k. We sure didn't feel/act/live rich...and to boot, we paid plenty of taxes.
Pisses me off.
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Perry is a more cunning and angrier version of Bush... We are all doomed!!!
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These politicians don't give one damn about real people. I mean they could always lead by example and start paying more taxes. Just a though eh.
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uh oh
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And stupid middle class Americans will vote for him anyway.
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theres too much talking and not enough revolting...im getting impatient
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Originally Posted by AJIIIpLATINum
QFT
This is by far the part that pisses me off more than anything. People label themselves republicans then blindly follow republican politicians, regardless if they are hurting themselves or not.
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Interesting, did Obama raise taxes for the rich?
Also, what is your solution to that loophole, that is the rich donating to charities? I don't think you should take that away completely, because then most/if not all charities would struggle heavily.
Honestly haven't looked into what Obama has or hasn't done in terms of taxes because nothing has crossed my desk that would impact myself or clients. Dodd-Frank, for example, would have the a huge impact if it included taxing "carry".
Carry, for those of you who don't know, is a re-allocation of income to another's capital base. For example, in funds set up as limited partnerships you have two types of Partners (yes, there can be different varieties of this, but for simplicity sake), General and Limited. LPs are those who join the fund and the GP essentially runs it. Part of the GPs compensation is tied to performance. When performance is earned, it's taken from the LPs capital account and transferred to the GPs. The fund's equity stays the same as it nets to zero.
Dodd-Frank wanted to tax that 20% carry at ordinary rates. Currently it is treated beneficially under the tax code. Oddly enough, Venture Cap funds got exempted in some of the other sections of Dodd-Frank, which I'm sure was the results of their lobbying efforts.
I have absolutely no problem with those who have money being inclined to give it away and reap a benefit versus hoarding it. I give away stuff I don't need and I used to claim it when I was itemizing deductions. But now we moved and we no longer, so when I give stuff away I just drop it off without a receipt. It's not like they're getting dollar-for-dollar deductions, and I'm almost positive it's capped to some degree.
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RON PAUL NEEDS TO TAKE EM DOWN [][]
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Fixed.
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Thats what amazes me. Republicans and their doppelganger "Tea Party" brethren have to be commended in a way. It amazes me how they can get poor "ideological" (for lack of a better term) people on board and have them vote against their own interestsOriginally Posted by DrTobaggan
Originally Posted by AJIIIpLATINum
QFT
This is by far the part that pisses me off more than anything. People label themselves republicans then blindly follow republican politicians, regardless if they are hurting themselves or not.
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Yup. America isn't gonna bet on Bush 2.0 next year.
Taxes are at the lowest point in over 50 years. People don't buy the theory that the wealthiest should not have to pay a cent. While the Middle Class should wait for it to trickle down to them, it hasn't worked and it never will.
foxdawg2000
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I can definitely agree with the majority of the sentiment directed in this thread and as i said before I'm no economic expert. I can be described as left of center based of my stance on social issues.. My beef is with individuals who harp on small gov't then turn around and support foreign wars and corporate welfare..While I don't agree with Ron Paul across the board he is the only true small gov't Repub out there.. the rest are full of caca... The majority of those republicans where i work (central Florida) are primarily repub based off of the idea of lesser taxes and RELIGION... If you're an older white evangelical you're chance of being repub increases 10 fold regardless of your income.. The tax thing is usually just another way to knock the "black guy in the white house who wants to redistribute the wealth" where in truth OBAMA has been more of a republican than a dem on tax issues since he's been in office.... My question to those Christians is how would Jesus redistribute money? Just a hypothetical and my point is what would be the christ-like course of action?
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From Texas: United States, please be stupid enough to vote for Rick Perry. We want to get rid of him ASAP.
From Teachers of Texas: He slashed our benefits and budgets to build prisons.
From Teachers of Texas: He slashed our benefits and budgets to build prisons.
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What is a loophole?
There are tax laws. Thousands of laws, codes and regulations. There are no loopholes. Every law is painstakingly researched and written and revised by your elected representatives. Nothing happens by 'accident' or 'mistake', it's all by design.
If you don't like the way a specific law works, you need to interact with your elected officials.
That being said, there are PLENTY of tax laws that were conceived and implemented only to benefit people with money.
I am personally frustrated with the Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act of 2007. (Haven't decided yet whether it benefits 'middle class' folks more, or if it's effects had more of an impact for the upper/wealthy class based on secondary impacts like improved financial situations for lending companies able to clear debt from their books. i don't think this program had ANY POSITIVE IMPACT AT ALL for lower income individuals.)
There are tax laws. Thousands of laws, codes and regulations. There are no loopholes. Every law is painstakingly researched and written and revised by your elected representatives. Nothing happens by 'accident' or 'mistake', it's all by design.
If you don't like the way a specific law works, you need to interact with your elected officials.
That being said, there are PLENTY of tax laws that were conceived and implemented only to benefit people with money.
I am personally frustrated with the Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act of 2007. (Haven't decided yet whether it benefits 'middle class' folks more, or if it's effects had more of an impact for the upper/wealthy class based on secondary impacts like improved financial situations for lending companies able to clear debt from their books. i don't think this program had ANY POSITIVE IMPACT AT ALL for lower income individuals.)
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Ron Paul > Rick Perry
kdawg
Staff member
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Yeah, because those elected representatives aren't influenced by lobbyists from big business at all...
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lol?
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I made a financial mistake before the +#%# hit the fan in 2007. I bought a 1 bedroom/1 bath condo, before I met my wife, that was near BART (a good thing). I got it via short sale in 2007 therefore felt I was getting a good deal. Interest rates back then were 6.5-7% (astronomical, right?
I'm now 10 days away from completing a short sale that will have almost taken a year. I had a buyer within 30 days of going to market, but the bank's insurerer (Radian) denied me...twice! My credit was too high. Circumstances like getting married, my wife getting laid off then starting her own business, and me changing jobs caused us to lose out on about $35k per year. We simply could not afford a 1 bdr/1 ba condo (740 sq ft - she worked from home) anymore when you tack on HOA and Propert Tax. Could we sell? No. Could we cover our costs via rent? No. Short sale was the only economical decision that made sense. I was over throwing good money after bad money. We've finally gotten investor approval (Citi) and you know what's funny? If they would have accepted the original deal, they would have closed $30k higher, instead they pussyfooted around and then the market kept going down. We had a cash buyer, too.
Fact of the matter is, we couldn't get a principal reduction so I wanted it off my books. I know the law and know I'm not going to be on the hook in CA and luckily debt forgivness treated as income federally has been suspended. I can attest to the fact that this has been a huge benefit. We've since moved into a place that fits our family and we can grow without fear of needing more space. Oh and it's $500 cheaper than my mortgage was + HOA + Proper Taxes. I don't have to worry about paying tax on $136.5k of income/debt forgiveness.
Let's not forget, our elected officials are all pretty much living well. Most of their upbringings scream family money, old money, etc. Pedigrees from very nice and well perceived schools, etc. Here's a perfrect example of the tax code being written with them (and others) in mind: Mortgage deduction, you get to take that on your primary residence. You also get to take about half on your secondary resident (i.e - vacation home, 2nd apt, whatever). Why? Because most of them have a spot in D.C. besides their own home district. Laws may be researched, but unintended consequences are hardly weighed nor is the impact a new law will have on previously existing laws.