Saw SHUTTER ISLAND tonight- vol. yes, it's better than The Departed **Spoilers within**

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

we live in a world where once you're dubbed crazy, no amount of effort on your part to show otherwise, will clear your name. In facts, your efforts to prove otherwise will used to validate just how crazy you are"..
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He WAS crazy, the doctor was trying to prove that just because someone is deemed "crazy" in society, that doesnt mean they could be rehabilitated. He was rehabilitated but chose to make them believe he was still "crazy".


Also, that quote--"to live as a monster, or to die as a good man"...there's more to it...just think a lil harder...
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Yes, instead of living with the fact that his wife killed his 3 children and he inturn killed his wife, he rather let them perform the labatomy and forget everything .
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^^ superantigen... valid points my man!

although I do not agree (I think the woman in the cave was a hallucination) I think that the conversation they had was placed their to validate Leo's hallucination on his subconscious.

It's like I learn in grad school (psychology) ... the common flaw with the psychological field is that during assessment and diagnosis, according to the dsm 4, once you are labelled an "ic" you will always be an "ic". (example - if you see a psychiatrist and his final assessment is that you are an alcohol-IC you will always and forever will be an alcoholic, for even when symptom free, you will technically be a recovering alcoholic for a relapse may happen at any given moment)
 
Originally Posted by sn00pee

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

we live in a world where once you're dubbed crazy, no amount of effort on your part to show otherwise, will clear your name. In facts, your efforts to prove otherwise will used to validate just how crazy you are"..
...

 
Click to expand...
He WAS crazy, the doctor was trying to prove that just because someone is deemed "crazy" in society, that doesnt mean they could be rehabilitated. He was rehabilitated but chose to make them believe he was still "crazy".
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Fam, I have the movie right in front of me, evidenced by those screen shots...I'm very well aware of what the dr. said...which is what I typed up there.

He was rehabilitated--according to whose definition of rehabilitation, though...
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he was insane, if you watch the movie again from the beginning you know hes insane he starts getting headaches cause he is not taking his medicine, Ben Kingslys role plays good guy opposed to the warden who wants to give diCaprio a lobotomy, Kingsley is trying to prove that he can cure patients with care and time. some examples or giveaways that he is in fact insane.

1. in the beginning he asks the guard why everyone is on there toes that is because they are afraid of DiCaprio with his role being intelligent and highly dangerous which is stated in the end on his documents

2. when they are asked to remove there guns Scorcese specifically captures "Chuck" not being able to take off his holster and gun because he is not a real Marshall he is just a Doctor.

3. The crazy lady in the beginning that tells DiCaprio to "shush" somehow knows about the experiment that Kingsley's character is trying to do to prove his theory. But she is so crazy that she just thinks its a fun innocent game.

4. When DiCaprio is interviewing the staff they talk about Dr. Sheehan who was "Rachels" (the supposed lady that escaped) primary Doctor who is also "Chuck" Scorcese then cuts to "Chuck" as soon as the nurse talks about Dr. Sheehan

5. Also in the middle of the film DiCaprio looks around and notices the guards are just standing around because Rachel doesn't exist, they are just looking like they are searching for him.

the list goes on just watch the movie again and you will see all the clues. and for those who think that the lady in the cave was real...all you need to know is that all his dreams were related to fire( Dreams not Flashbacks the flashbacks were real) and in the cave there is a fire keep that in mind.
 
Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by sn00pee

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

we live in a world where once you're dubbed crazy, no amount of effort on your part to show otherwise, will clear your name. In facts, your efforts to prove otherwise will used to validate just how crazy you are"..
...

 
Click to expand...
He WAS crazy, the doctor was trying to prove that just because someone is deemed "crazy" in society, that doesnt mean they could be rehabilitated. He was rehabilitated but chose to make them believe he was still "crazy".
Click to expand...

Fam, I have the movie right in front of me, evidenced by those screen shots...I'm very well aware of what the dr. said...which is what I typed up there.

He was rehabilitated--according to whose definition of rehabilitation, though...
wink.gif



...
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whose definitiion? that doesnt matter. The matter-of-fact is that he came to realize who he was and what he had done. So at the end he wasnt crazy anymore but he decided to go along and act like he still was.
 
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Dr- [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]"Once you're declared insane, anything you do is [deemed] part of that insanity. Reasonable protests or denial...valid fears...paranoia..."[/color]

Teddy- "Survival instincts...defense mechanisms..."

Dr- "You're smarter than you look Marshal, probably not a good thing..."


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...
 
Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by xblker47

How did he know about the ice pick though? The character that told him about it wasnt real though??
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Exactly...which is one of the many reasons, elucidated at the end of the movie, that leads me to believe that Teddy was actually NOT crazy.

Info of the glass pick was only revealed to him by that female Dr. in the cave. But if she was a figment of his psychosis, which is what Kingsley character states, implying thus that everything she told him was imaginary, how does anyone explain the very end of the movie when the orderly is seen bringing the glass pick, wrapped in linen, when Teddy's fate is finally determined.

Furthermore, recall that after this very scene, comes the last scene in the movie-- a shot of the Lighthouse. Think about this...the final two scenes in the movie show a very real glass pick, used for the "experiments" suggested by the imaginary doctor, immediately followed by a shot of the Light house, the place where these experiments occur.

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]Look at the time associated with each frame...[/color]

Shot of the glass pick...

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followed by Teddy being led to his fate...

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followed by a shot of the Light house...

2j1muee.jpg


Connect the dots y'all...
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...

Also, that quote--"to live as a monster, or to die as a good man"...there's more to it...just think a lil harder...
wink.gif


As far as I'm concerned, those in the audience who actually believed that Teddy was crazy, are in fact, the real crazy ones. Once again, evidence of this can be found in the dialogue between Teddy and the doctor lady in the cave. Remember what she said (paraphrasing)--"we live in a world where once you're dubbed crazy, no amount of effort on your part to show otherwise, will clear your name. In facts, your efforts to prove otherwise will used to validate just how crazy you are"...and guess what, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE AUDIENCE IS DOING TO TEDDY, simply because the antagonists of movie already declared him to be crazy...
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Absolutely, when he asked the Doc is it better "to live as a monster, or to die as a good man", I felt like he was asking the Doc that question.

To continue living as the "Doc" and this monster who conducts experiments on people or die a good man who fought to expose the conspiracy at Shutter Island.
 
Originally Posted by SuperAntigen





Dr- [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]"Once you're declared insane, anything you do is [deemed] part of that insanity. Reasonable protests or denial...valid fears...paranoia..."[/color]

Teddy- "Survival instincts...defense mechanisms..."

Dr- "You're smarter than you look Marshal, probably not a good thing..."


smile.gif



...
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again, you're not really proving anything.
and look at his flashbacks. of his wife. first they were in an apartment. she was bleeding from the waist. But supposedly she died from inhaling smoke? he never had an apartment. she didnt die from smoke. If you look at his flashbacks. they start to lead up to the last flashback. they start to add more and more.
the last flashback where he finds his kids dead, he's in a little cottage in the forest. so how is "andrew laeddis" his superintendent there?
 
I LOVED this movie

I think those who hate it are too stupid to understand therefore they hate it
 
i don't think sanity is as black and white as a lot of you are making it out to be

sanity is very subjective
 
Originally Posted by sn00pee

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen





Dr- [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]"Once you're declared insane, anything you do is [deemed] part of that insanity. Reasonable protests or denial...valid fears...paranoia..."[/color]

Teddy- "Survival instincts...defense mechanisms..."

Dr- "You're smarter than you look Marshal, probably not a good thing..."


smile.gif



...
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again, you're not really proving anything.
and look at his flashbacks. of his wife. first they were in an apartment. she was bleeding from the waist. But supposedly she died from inhaling smoke? he never had an apartment. she didnt die from smoke. If you look at his flashbacks. they start to lead up to the last flashback. they start to add more and more.
the last flashback where he finds his kids dead, he's in a little cottage in the forest. so how is "andrew laeddis" his superintendent there?
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exactly...SuperAntigen..I think you are looking way too into it man
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That flashback of the kids dying was what really happened...It was completely clear unlike his other flashbacks
 
Yea SuperAntigen is looking wayyyy wayyy wayy to far into it lol... he was definitely crazy... pretty obvious at the end of the movie if you ask me
 
maybe SuperAntigen is posting FROM shutterisland??? Think about it... Super Antigen = Pat Gensinuern psychotic patient #67?
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He was crazy for the simple fact that in the end, they tried to help him understand.
If they were doing experiments, what reason do they have not to just lobotimize him right from the start?
Or there and then when he got to the light house?
There is no benefit for the doctors or whoever were "doing" the experiments if they let him go by letting him think it was just in his head.

You have to remember, everything they did and acted in the island, Leo already told the doctors and they are just acting it out.
I also stated before that subconsciously, he knew what happening and the doctor in the cave signifies that.
She says they are all in on it and that he has no friends is clearly his mind telling him what is going on in real life but he just interprets is in a negative way.
 
I'm inclined to believe that he was, in fact, sane. How would he have known about the experiments? Why would they have a fence around a lifeless lighthouse? His flashbacks of his wife do, however, show her bleeding and dripping in water way before it's revealed that she had killed her kids in the river and shot her, or atleast before his flashback had begun. He was the perfect candidtate to be one of the "ghosts", not only was he military trained, but he also had two huge trama's in his life that could led a person to shutter island. the conversation he had with the dude in the jail cell that he supposedly beat up, he was talking about the experiments also. The mark of sanity is making rationale decisions, in even an seemingly unreasonable world. The old adage is "Just becasue your paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you", the fact that throughout the movie he had been acting very reasonable for the situation.
 
Just saw it today. I thought it was pretty good. It's interesting to think that he was sane, but too much points to him really being insane.
 
SuperAntigen -

Spoiler [+]
the reason they are bringing him the whites and metal thing is because they are gonna give him a lobotomy...the whole reason they are doing the role play is to prove to the warden and whoever else that they can save Teddy without the lobotomy. The lady in the cave is a hallucination because she is saying everything Teddy wants to hear.
 
Originally Posted by Crank Lucas

simple minded people should not see this movie, a female friend of mine just came out of it and said "the movie was good but the ending ruined it"

I said you dont know what your talking about and shut the phone on her
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lol its not that serious bro...
 
The only way this movie was better than The Departed was if you watched the Departed on mute and with the TV turned off.

Shutter Island is one of the worst movies I've seen in a long time.
 
Originally Posted by Vancity74

The only way this movie was better than The Departed was if you watched the Departed on mute and with the TV turned off.
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That made me laugh for some reason, the "mute and tv turned off" part.
 
Originally Posted by DubA169

the departed had no depth
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Exactly.

I thought shuttter island was brilliant. it was something outside of what Marty normally does.The acting was phenomonial, the story deep and complex. The ending was insane, all of the little things that went into the roleplay, the psychological aspects. Amazing
 
 
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