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Rapper's Delight.
1IIunn1nat1.
1IIunn1nat1.
So At What Point On The Timeline Did Hip-Hop/Rap Culture Become "Pop."
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by DCAllAfrican,
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Run DMC was the first successful group that crossed over to the mainstream. They started the ball rolling, thing is they were actually good. Vanilla Ice & Hammer (whack as $%#%) were the two individuals that forged horrible rap being accepted as "pop". I personally blame this period in Hip-Hop for the downward spiral. Puff made it a mission to destroy the art form and pimp it out as much as possible. Others have followed in his steps. There are plenty of good artist still out there, they just don't have mass appeal.
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Fixed:
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As background, it was always cool to be like "Us", so that element was always there in terms of pop culture. I saw some responses and I'll answer DC's question as I saw it (after his edit I suppose). This is my opinion. As the state of "hip hop" now, the seed was planted when The Fresh Prince of Bel Air started gaining popularity. At the time, it was a real head scratcher to have a rapper acting, and playing a lead role at that on primetime TV (this is not to be confused with movies such as Krush Groove and Beat Streat, which were cult classics within hip hop cultre and still weren't considered mainstream as of yet) with that vehicle coming into homes on a weekly basis, it opened the door for mainstream America to feel comfortable with rappers being entertainers and someone you would want in your home. (In context at the time, yes Will was rapping and some looked at him as soft, but he served as a bridge from the rap world to the mainstream. Early Fresh Prince tho, before the TV show
). Think about it, throughout the course of the show, he introduced Heavy D, BBD, and other hip hop artists to mainstream making them familiar with the hip hop culture. Of course NBC saw the ratings for this and saw the appeal people had for the show with a hip hop feel to it = $$$. Within the same timeline, you had artists like MC Hammer who was the first hip hop artist to have a major endorsement deal (Pepsi), which ironically, rappers saw him as a sellout for doing it at the time. It flew under the radar during the early 90's because rap was still spilt in terms of those who remained true to the culture (ATCQ, De La Soul etc.) versus those who were making records in addition to pushing product (MC Hammer, Will Smith etc.) If you paid attention to it, you saw it grow slowly (does anyone remember how Sprite used to market their soda?). With this, sneakers organically became part of the fabric. Starting with Run DMC (Adidas) to Will wearing Jordans during the show inadvertently help market that brand as well (every one in a while, a newbie will point out shoes he had on during the run). Still it slowly bubbled. During the early to mid 90's it was cool, or even the "golden era" of marketing of the hip hop lifestyle. I think things started to turn around 1997 or so. For me, that's when I felt things were getting different. It progressed from there as rappers got more acting roles (LL, DMX, Ja Rule, Method Man and Redman...the list goes on). Not hating on those who gained acting careers, but that's the beginning of how hip hop has become mainstream in my eyes. What bugs me out still is, how many of y'all thought Common Sense would be an actor when you heard him battling Ice Cube and the West Side Connection?
. I know I left out some, but this is already a wall of text, I'm at work and I hope y'all got the gist of what I was trying to say.
Remy LeBeau
formerly carbon16
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This is realOriginally Posted by seasoned vet
....to add:
...you wanna know how to get that 'real' back? simple. support it. ive seen chicks go out and BUY a cd for ONE song, and bootleg an album they LOVE. makes no business sense at all.
...ive seen females complain about misogynistic and raunchy lyrics in HH, yet are too lazy to seek out the HH that they DO like. with dead serious answers like "no one has time to look for that"
...ive seen males complain about HH not being relevant to them in their 30's with all of the bragging and whatnot, yet when they're introduced to HH that speaks to the current issues of their age they call it corny.
|A-Man|
formerly atgd7154xbbxmz
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I would say the 90s. Once rap music specifically was shown to generate millions of sales by the consumer it became popular and I'm talking about the success of Wu-Tang, Biggie, Pac, NWA, etc. After that in the 2000s labels just started gearing the music to a specific catchy sound to make the most money out of it.
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went extremely mainstream in late 90s early 00s.
just look at the charts, thats all you need for proof. before the late 90s barely any hip hop songs were in the top 100.
major radio stations would not play most rap. nowadays they play just as much as 'hip hop' radio stations.
you can't say it went pop in the 80s. becoming aware and becoming pop are two different things. there was a clear line between what was pop and what was hip hop. now the bridges have merged.
just look at the charts, thats all you need for proof. before the late 90s barely any hip hop songs were in the top 100.
major radio stations would not play most rap. nowadays they play just as much as 'hip hop' radio stations.
you can't say it went pop in the 80s. becoming aware and becoming pop are two different things. there was a clear line between what was pop and what was hip hop. now the bridges have merged.
rex ryan
Banned
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Originally Posted by carbon16
This is realOriginally Posted by seasoned vet
....to add:
...you wanna know how to get that 'real' back? simple. support it. ive seen chicks go out and BUY a cd for ONE song, and bootleg an album they LOVE. makes no business sense at all.
...ive seen females complain about misogynistic and raunchy lyrics in HH, yet are too lazy to seek out the HH that they DO like. with dead serious answers like "no one has time to look for that"
...ive seen males complain about HH not being relevant to them in their 30's with all of the bragging and whatnot, yet when they're introduced to HH that speaks to the current issues of their age they call it corny.
...yet we have dudes on here that scoff at the idea of supporting the music they love with money.
...litterally had some genius on here try and justify his bootlegging over buying with the excuse of "after i bootlegged it, i told as many people i know about how good it was". as if an artist and his family can survive off promotion alone after STEALING their work.
...then have the nerve to wonder what happened and how to fix it.
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Honestly, I don't even understand what rap music is anymore. When Run DMC - Raising Hell came out we used to sit on the schoolbus in like 6th grade listening to it. I've lived through Wu-Tang, Kool G Rap, Mobb Deep, DMX, Tupac, Biggie, Jay-Z, 2 Live Crew, NWA, Dr. Dre, EMINEM, Snnop, Ice T, Ice Cube. Everything.
What the hell is a Wiz Kalifa and I seen some MTV awards show or something when that dude Drake was up for Rapper of the year. That dude is an R&B guy, no?
There is no such thing as new rap music. If there is, I certainly haven't heard it. Jay-Z is pretty much the only rapper I still hear new things from.
What the hell is a Wiz Kalifa and I seen some MTV awards show or something when that dude Drake was up for Rapper of the year. That dude is an R&B guy, no?
There is no such thing as new rap music. If there is, I certainly haven't heard it. Jay-Z is pretty much the only rapper I still hear new things from.
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Sell out?
EDM is "pop" right now, they are just riding the wave in order to profit from it. "Pop" evolves, just look at the Billboard 100 from the past 30 years (you can look further back, but 30 years will suffice).
Our culture has been getting exploited for years, dating back to the 40's 50's and 60's. Our culture, style, and hipness is of envy. But no one wants the problems black people have to deal with. Even our skin color, the shape of our women, the fullness of our lips, our cheek bones, are all of envy of other races.
$%$!! with this nonsense, I don't care what race/ethnicity you are, can't stand ethnocentric people. Their logic is so flawed.
Your culture is getting exploited? What way? Please elaborate.
Mass media will exploit ANY culture if dollar signs are at the other end of the equation. It isn't exclusive to "black culture".
Don't mean to side rail this thread though. To answer DC's question, it happened in the mid-90's, that is when hip hop/rap culture began to transcend social lines and it became somewhat acceptable despite it's stigma's
|A-Man|
formerly atgd7154xbbxmz
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As for R&B falling off
I don't know what happened. Some ppl may say it's out there if you look but I've looked and all that lesser known new R&B doesn't sound good to me.
I'm just happy the likes of Maxwell and Raphael Saadiq are still alive. I've just about given up on good R&B coming back to the forefront. I've switched gears to folk, alternative rock, and ppl like John Mayer.
I'm just happy the likes of Maxwell and Raphael Saadiq are still alive. I've just about given up on good R&B coming back to the forefront. I've switched gears to folk, alternative rock, and ppl like John Mayer.
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^^classic example.
....the question is where are you looking HOVKid?
....and i use the term 'looking' loosely. you may not be actively 'looking', but there are a few places you come by new HH by accident, id like to know where?
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Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ
As for R&B falling offI don't know what happened. Some ppl may say it's out there if you look but I've looked and all that lesser known new R&B doesn't sound good to me.
I'm just happy the likes of Maxwell and Raphael Saadiq are still alive. I've just about given up on good R&B coming back to the forefront. I've switched gears to folk, alternative rock, and ppl like John Mayer.
....have you heard of Jesse Boykins III? how about Algebra? Yazarah?
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For realOriginally Posted by seasoned vet
^^classic example.
....the question is where are you looking HOVKid?
....and i use the term 'looking' loosely. you may not be actively 'looking', but there are a few places you come by new HH by accident, id like to know where?
of a # of large corporations controlling a lot of the media, and certain artists themselves putting out low quality here today/gone tomorrow music.
You really can find good hip hop music by accident. One site I used to go to was netweeds.com. They would have a boatload of albums that you wouldn't have known
about unless you meticulously follow the artists, including plenty of release dates, all while having the usual popular artists. So while you may already know what Lil' Wayne,
Eminem, Jay-Z albums are coming out, they would also have artists like Random Axe, Slain, AP9, K-Rino and other more obscure/overlooked artists. Haven't gone to it in
awhile cause it seems like they haven't updated in a long time.
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Originally Posted by Peep Game
Originally Posted by seasoned vet
^^classic example.
....the question is where are you looking HOVKid?
....and i use the term 'looking' loosely. you may not be actively 'looking', but there are a few places you come by new HH by accident, id like to know where?
For realThat was such a blanket statement.
...and im not trying to pick on HOVKid at all. but i do hear that claim ALOT, so when i have the chance i like to ask the individual where it is that they are exposed to new HH.
|A-Man|
formerly atgd7154xbbxmz
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Heard of those two. I remember the JB3 thread in music, none of his music moved me much. I mess with Yahzarah. Dig a lot of her work with other justus league artists like Phonte but if I remember right she got like one really good album and the rest I've heard from her is on features.Originally Posted by seasoned vet
....have you heard of Jesse Boykins III? how about Algebra? Yazarah?Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ
As for R&B falling offI don't know what happened. Some ppl may say it's out there if you look but I've looked and all that lesser known new R&B doesn't sound good to me.
I'm just happy the likes of Maxwell and Raphael Saadiq are still alive. I've just about given up on good R&B coming back to the forefront. I've switched gears to folk, alternative rock, and ppl like John Mayer.
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i think there are errors of judgment on both sides here....Originally Posted by Peep Game
For realOriginally Posted by seasoned vet
^^classic example.
....the question is where are you looking HOVKid?
....and i use the term 'looking' loosely. you may not be actively 'looking', but there are a few places you come by new HH by accident, id like to know where?That was such a blanket statement. Now if he was talking about mainstream hip hop, I can say he's definitely right. But that's a combination of a fraction
of a # of large corporations controlling a lot of the media, and certain artists themselves putting out low quality here today/gone tomorrow music.
You really can find good hip hop music by accident. One site I used to go to was netweeds.com. They would have a boatload of albums that you wouldn't have known
about unless you meticulously follow the artists, including plenty of release dates, all while having the usual popular artists. So while you may already know what Lil' Wayne,
Eminem, Jay-Z albums are coming out, they would also have artists like Random Axe, Slain, AP9, K-Rino and other more obscure/overlooked artists. Haven't gone to it in
awhile cause it seems like they haven't updated in a long time.
hovkid has given up on the concept of 'new' hip hop, as have i. i still listen to most of the ppl i listened to when i was younger (just about everyone he mentioned), and there's a few newer cats that i listen to after being put on by some younger ppl.
it doesn't mean good music (or hip hop) isn't out there, it just means that we've been beaten senseless by so much perceived crap that we're just tired of looking for it. it's no longer fresh to us. it's no longer new and exciting. it's the same old crap that's been done for damn near 30 years.
back when we were younger and the music was fresher to us, the good stuff floated to whatever top there was back then. i remember checking 'the source' religiously from like 93-98. everything was fresh to me.
young kids growing up now...they're the same - everything that floats to the top is what they're checkin for (and it's fresh to them).
i read a quote somewhere recently...'every generation thinks they invented good music and sex'... we're no different than our parents. our kids are no different than us. we're just getting older.
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^^that age thing is such a lazy excuse. im beyond tired of hearing it.
...im 33 years old, yet i manage to avoid the 'so called crap', all while still being able to find something new and fresh in both HH and R&B. people with this midset have to be doing it WRONG.
...im 33 years old, yet i manage to avoid the 'so called crap', all while still being able to find something new and fresh in both HH and R&B. people with this midset have to be doing it WRONG.
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Elvis Presley
srs
srs
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"appealing to international sounds and interest"
dance music has pretty much hijacked mainstream hiphop music.
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thriller and mikey jackson
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whats da point of looking if it isn't better then da era that precedes it?Originally Posted by seasoned vet
^^classic example.
....the question is where are you looking HOVKid?
....and i use the term 'looking' loosely. you may not be actively 'looking', but there are a few places you come by new HH by accident, id like to know where?
show me a rapper now making better music then da 90's rap.