So How Tough is Law School Really?

[kickhead23]

Will be attending law school in the fall. University of Miami School of Law c/o 2015

I'd be willing to answer any questions anyone may have about the app process and LSAT through PM. And I'll try and remember to come back and drop some knowledge after I get a taste.

 

[atlsfinest]

Originally Posted by JewSeeJay

There are already too many lawyers. Less u get into a prestigious school w/ extremely high grades i wouldnt eem consider it

Didnt goto law school tho so whatta i kno

this x 1000. I know too many unemployed lawyers. When I was still in undergrad, I knew a good amount of law school kids (went to UGA which is a top 40 law school) and all of heard about was how none of them had jobs lined up. My brother is an attorney and he even steered me away from it. Unless you go to a top 20 school, finish in the top 10%-20%, or straight have connections, law school is a huge gamble.

 

[calculator1200]

Current law school student here in my 2nd year.

My advice: Don't do it. Like people have mentioned above, the job market sucks. The tuition is ridiculous and if you don't have scholarships, you're looking at 150k+ of debt. People are effing weird in law school, girls are ugly as hell, and you're gonna be balls deep in your books every night. There's no guarantee of a job unless you're top 10% of your class and you constantly have to deal with shady people.

Before I went, my closest friends who went to law school told me not to go for the reasons I mentioned above. Naturally, I wasn't gonna listen because I wanted to find out for myself. I realize you probably won't listen to some random dude on a sneaker board. But for what it's worth, I wish I listened and focused my energy on something else.

 

[atlsfinest]

Originally Posted by calculator1200

Current law school student here in my 2nd year.

My advice: Don't do it. Like people have mentioned above, the job market sucks. The tuition is ridiculous and if you don't have scholarships, you're looking at 150k+ of debt. People are effing weird in law school, girls are ugly as hell, and you're gonna be balls deep in your books every night. There's no guarantee of a job unless you're top 10% of your class and you constantly have to deal with shady people.

Before I went, my closest friends who went to law school told me not to go for the reasons I mentioned above. Naturally, I wasn't gonna listen because I wanted to find out for myself. I realize you probably won't listen to some random dude on a sneaker board. But for what it's worth, I wish I listened and focused my energy on something else.

one of my closest friends graduated last May and he told me that if someone would pay for his loans, he'd walk away from the profession completely (he had a scholly and still has 75k in debt). I read alot of law school blogs and message boards and the things I read about were scary. Even if you get a biglaw job, you're probably only gonna be there long enough to pay off your loans before they push you out or you burn out (i.e 80 hr weeks and you're pretty much always on call). The risk is too high and the reward is too low IMO.

 

[toy collector123]

Originally Posted by HankMoody

Read 1L by Scott Turow. Obviously dated but it's still a great book about his first year at Harvard Law. Synopsis: Hell.

Reading this book now.
I was deciding on Lawschool... but after realizing there are absolutely NO JOBS post graduation, and after speaking with others at big law, you will not get a job making over 50k.

The big L firms go to Harvard, Yale, and Standford, to take the top 10 students. 

Unless you're established with a guarantee job after graduation, dont do it. Don't want to take my word on it... here are a few good reading links

http://lawschoolscam.blogspot.com/

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/

http://abovethelaw.com/

http://shillingmesoftly.blogspot.com/

http://rosecoloredglassesjd.blogspot.com/

http://subprimejd.blogspot.com/

Here's the basic run down of the lawschool scam. To admit 25 persons, the school makes about 1 million off those 25 alone. This can be your Harvards to your Case Law (std. not withstanding on whether or not you have any deviation in the amount of tuition being paid, mostly via student loans).

Now, take that number and multiply by 10, that's 10 million dollars from an entering class alone (costs are already factored into the amount thats being paid to the professors, staff and a lean administration). Now please do tell me why law school costs continue to rise? There's nothing going on teaching you about how to carry yourself as a lawyer. No required court visits, nothing. The market is too saturated + a lot of countries practice common law, which means cheaper services for corporations, and a lot of outsourcing. 

 

[dman14]

unless you have a true passion for law dont do it.  or if you have a lot of money and willing to try it out.  not worth it unless you go to a top tier school.

 

[dwyanewadeog]

Originally Posted by Toy Collector123

Originally Posted by HankMoody

Read 1L by Scott Turow. Obviously dated but it's still a great book about his first year at Harvard Law. Synopsis: Hell.

Reading this book now.
I was deciding on Lawschool... but after realizing there are absolutely NO JOBS post graduation, and after speaking with others at big law, you will not get a job making over 50k.

The big L firms go to Harvard, Yale, and Standford, to take the top 10 students. 

I will agree with you about law school generally being a horrible idea but what you're saying above is just not true. Maybe you were exaggerating about big law firms only taking 10 students from each of the top 3?

 

[toy collector123]

Originally Posted by DwyaneWadeOG

Originally Posted by Toy Collector123

Originally Posted by HankMoody

Read 1L by Scott Turow. Obviously dated but it's still a great book about his first year at Harvard Law. Synopsis: Hell.

Reading this book now.
I was deciding on Lawschool... but after realizing there are absolutely NO JOBS post graduation, and after speaking with others at big law, you will not get a job making over 50k.

The big L firms go to Harvard, Yale, and Standford, to take the top 10 students. 

I will agree with you about law school generally being a horrible idea but what you're saying above is just not true. Maybe you were exaggerating about big law firms only taking 10 students from each of the top 3?

Don't believe. Go to all Big Firm websites and look for opportunities for new graduates. Don't worry, I'll wait.

 

[jazz145]

Originally Posted by TheTrillipino

Originally Posted by jazz145

I have heard mixed reviews about the difficulty of law school. I know higher end schools are tougher but I was curious to see what people think about the average law school
Anyone currently in law school or know anyone that is in one, please share your opinion.

What specific type of law are you planning to study, though?

 But, as every other poster said, it takes a lot of dedication and effort to do good in law school.  Thinking about getting into law school after I get my Master of Accountancy.

I am planning on attending law school to become a transactional lawyer. Family law looks appealing as well considering the divorce rate

I graduated with a Bachelor's in Health Science Administration. I did a few internships and it's not what I want to do for the rest of my life.
A part of the reason why picked my major is because I thought I would get a job quickly but now I feel like I should do something that actually interests me.
As a undergrad I wouldn't spend too much time studying but that was because I felt it was easy to get by.
I can see myself studying for 4 to 5 hours a day but more than that might be a problem

 

[Johnny_Cakes]

Yeah, the statistics look pretty grim for law graduates. I'm interested in education law, but it's something that's going to have to be down the road for me.

 

[Zephyr1983]

yo, I am finishing my 1L at a T20 school, 
Ill answer questions if you want, but this is my quick advice

Ask yourself this question:

Do you want to practice law?

If you want to practice some kind of law, than law school is not nearly as bad as some make it seem.

There will be tons of reading, and a lot of time studying, but it is interesting material, and its not supposed to be just fun. This is the first step of your new career.

Treat it like a JOB




The main reason people burn out or complain about the job market is because they didnt really want to be lawyers, they wanted to be RICH

If you want to be a lawyer, than I can almost guarantee you will find an interesting job, even from a T50 or T100 school. It just might not be an associate position in an elite NYC firm

 

[atlsfinest]

Originally Posted by DwyaneWadeOG

Originally Posted by Toy Collector123

Originally Posted by HankMoody

Read 1L by Scott Turow. Obviously dated but it's still a great book about his first year at Harvard Law. Synopsis: Hell.

Reading this book now.
I was deciding on Lawschool... but after realizing there are absolutely NO JOBS post graduation, and after speaking with others at big law, you will not get a job making over 50k.

The big L firms go to Harvard, Yale, and Standford, to take the top 10 students. 

I will agree with you about law school generally being a horrible idea but what you're saying above is just not true. Maybe you were exaggerating about big law firms only taking 10 students from each of the top 3?

top firms only taking a total of 30 students is a exaggeration but the market is tough. The only way to be safe is to go to a t-14 school and be above median.

 

[doublejs07]

Job market is tough, and there's a good chance that you won't be making a six-figure salary. My roomate when I was in NY went to Brooklyn Law. That *%%$ was a GRIND. Dude was in the books non-stop. No half-assing...it's a full-on commitment.

 

[mez 0ne]

Don't let anything "scare" you, if you're willing to put the work and sacrifice in you can be successful. No reason to have fear.

 

[mr kuter]

Originally Posted by JayHood23

How hard are Realtor classes? No thread jack

 

[kickhead23]

Also in response to all of this over-saturation talk, this may be true but the admissions are declining steadily. Test takers/admissions have dropped 25% in the past YEAR. This may seem like a bad sign to most but for me that means less competition in my graduating class.

 

[credo]

Originally Posted by paliplaya2010

my sister goes to smu. she literally studies all day. she wakes up early and studies and after class she studies. shes lost like 20 pounds this year from the stress. in undergrad she was a genius. i law school shes average. shes jjust really wants to do it.

Sounds like getting a EE degree.  I lost about 25 pounds not because of stress (After two years in Iraq the stress from school is a cake walk) but because I would be so busy I would forget to eat.  Sometimes for a day or two.

 

[dwyanewadeog]

Originally Posted by Toy Collector123

Originally Posted by DwyaneWadeOG

Originally Posted by Toy Collector123

Reading this book now.
I was deciding on Lawschool... but after realizing there are absolutely NO JOBS post graduation, and after speaking with others at big law, you will not get a job making over 50k.

The big L firms go to Harvard, Yale, and Standford, to take the top 10 students. 

I will agree with you about law school generally being a horrible idea but what you're saying above is just not true. Maybe you were exaggerating about big law firms only taking 10 students from each of the top 3?

Don't believe. Go to all Big Firm websites and look for opportunities for new graduates. Don't worry, I'll wait.

Big Law opportunities for graduates generally come through the law schools OCI (on campus interview) process. It is more efficient to look at admissions statistics that are reported by the schools then to look at individual firm websites.
Taking Michigan (a top 10 school) as an example there were 379 students who graduated in 2011. 169 went into private practice and 82 of those 169 went to firms that have over 500 attorneys (big law).

I still agree with you that the legal market is horrible. If you look at the employment stats of the past two classes of michigan grads you'll see that 288 and 212 students out of the total class went into private practice compared to this years 169.

Hope I didn't keep you waiting too long.

edit:

oh and the 25th/75th percentile of the salaries of those in private practice is $145,000 and $160,000.

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[realrubirosa]

I interned and still work at one of the biggest law firms in the world while finishing up my first year of part-time enrollment at a small, private law school.

Cliff's: Law school is competitive. Getting a job is competitive. Law practice is competitive.

You will be expected to read a lot--a lot more than nearly anybody in college is used to. I took a year off between college and law school and was doing a lot of leisure reading during my down time and I think that paid off tremendously. Today, the time I spent going to Starbucks and reading about sociology and psychology is now spent going through case books. The reading, like somebody mentioned earlier, is not bad if you're truly interested in law. It's all cases that help define the basic rules of law. However, many of those cases are very old and in 'legalese" so they're a nuisance to read. I wouldn't say your free time is entirely accounted for with studies, but most of it is. Most of my "relaxation" time consists of studying by the pool instead of a library or coffee shop.

Every law school is different, too. My girlfriend goes to a law school where the lectures are virtually useless and the students aren't as engaged, but they're closer and help each other study more... they also have a program where everybody below the curve at the end of the year is dropped from school so the camaraderie thins toward the end of the year. At my school, the lectures are really good and complement my understanding from the readings, but I don't have a single person I'd call a friend from there because it's much more competitive. Her school has a ton of quizzes, papers, etc., whereas mine has one exam (a final) that determines your entire grade for the course.

As for the job market, it's really what you make it. We all hear the horror stories of unemployed T10 grads, but there are also people from T100 schools who don't graduate top 10% who get six-figure jobs and make partner at huge firms (there are some of these types of people at the firm I work at). Even people who graduate from the very bottom schools don't have to expect to be struggling through life. I have a friend who graduated from a law school with a terrible reputation, but he has his own firm that has afforded him to his own boss and still make a very nice living. 
Every school is going to tell you that networking is invaluable. During orientation, they told us that 70% of the graduating class said they got their job after school from networking. While grades, prestige, and what you know helps, it does tend to boil down to who you know.

I'm open for answering questions in the thread or through DM if any of you have more things to ask, too.

 

[cjdynasty]

Its really tough. Harder than anything you will have done to date. The Bar is unreal. And like others have mentioned, at this moment in time, the post market is terrible for attorneys...... And I am a Lawyer

 

[Grine]

1st year is always the hardest - After that you'll be ok. It's a lot of reading (a lot) and studying.
Mother - Judge
Daughter's mother - 2nd year of law year
Cousin - 3rd year of law school
2 Cousins - Attorney

 

[dt43]

Originally Posted by DwyaneWadeOG

Originally Posted by Toy Collector123

Originally Posted by DwyaneWadeOG

I will agree with you about law school generally being a horrible idea but what you're saying above is just not true. Maybe you were exaggerating about big law firms only taking 10 students from each of the top 3?

Don't believe. Go to all Big Firm websites and look for opportunities for new graduates. Don't worry, I'll wait.

Big Law opportunities for graduates generally come through the law schools OCI (on campus interview) process. It is more efficient to look at admissions statistics that are reported by the schools then to look at individual firm websites.
Taking Michigan (a top 10 school) as an example there were 379 students who graduated in 2011. 169 went into private practice and 82 of those 169 went to firms that have over 500 attorneys (big law).

I still agree with you that the legal market is horrible. If you look at the employment stats of the past two classes of michigan grads you'll see that 288 and 212 students out of the total class went into private practice compared to this years 169.

Hope I didn't keep you waiting too long.

edit:

oh and the 25th/75th percentile of the salaries of those in private practice is $145,000 and $160,000.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler [+]

Spoiler

i hope you are aware that law school "employment" stats are a well-known scam, right? there was a piece about it in the NY Times. the majority of graduates end up with ~12 month temp jobs, but law schools will count all those temp jobs as being "employed" even though the students end up unemployed and looking for work 12 months later.

 

[frenchblue23]

Originally Posted by marmourjr

1st year is always the hardest - After that you'll be ok. It's a lot of reading (a lot) and studying.
Mother - Judge
Daughter's mother - 2nd year of law year
Cousin - 3rd year of law school
2 Cousins - Attorney

That is what they say.

 

[rashi]

Where the hell do ya'll live?


Everyone I know that graduated from Law School within the past 2 years got a job immediately and weren't in their Top 10% of their class. Granted, they aren't working for large firms. They are doing mostly Real Estate, personal injury, family law, and immigration. These three fields are high in demand, and the people I know are doing very well.

 

[dathbgboy]

I was all about law school and still want to go. Finances just aint in my corner right now. I can't afford to take an extra $80-100k in loans to be makin a max of $45k/yr before taxes if that. If you're not going to a top 15 school, it's a waste of your money. If you don't graduate in the top percentile of ur class, u wasted ur money. That's the gist i got from all the attorneys i deal with