The "American Dream"...

[superantigen]

What is it to you, and do you believe everyone has a chance at it? Essentially, is it real or is it fiction/mere myth/a lie?

I was thinking about some [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]stuff[/color], like (for example) how the concept that is "survival of the fittest" plays out in the context of contemporary society, earlier tonight and it just got me thinking.

Your thoughts?


[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]...[/color]

 

[myjaysgetrocked]

Do I believe that everyone has a chance? Yes...... But do I think that everyone has a fair chance? No

 

[kicktionair]

I think the more dirt you do the more you make........

like if you can do it legit, your half way there...

 

[bahunt8]

Originally Posted by MyJaysGetRocked

Do I believe that everyone has a chance? Yes...... But do I think that everyone has a fair chance? No

Exactly
Everyone has an oppertunity but no one starts at the same point

 

[mytmouse76]

no i don't think everyone has a chance...

in order for me to be on top i have to beat someone else out...

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I don't believe everyone has a chance. I never thought that. But it depends on what that "chance" is.

There has to be people that fail.
There has to be people that succeed.

Everyone can't do either/or.

Everything is essentially based on a combination of luck, connections, work ethic. Any combination of the 3. Some people just have no shot of making it, even though others have made it in similar situations.

The American Dream to me is to make a lot of money doing something you love and being able to have enough $ to buy anything you want (for the most part).

 

[mangudai954]

What is it to you


Nicki Minaj in the passenger seats of my 750i as I pull up to my 2 million dollar home on star island only to depart on my yacht to go eat at shooters.

and do you believe everyone has a chance at it?

Do I believe that everyone has a chance? Yes...... But do I think that everyone has a fair chance? No

 

[fromthatown]

I think it's real man. For me, I think the harder part of the American Dream equation is the family part. Isn't that part of the dream too? I think it's much harder to chase paper, and trying to keep time balanced with all the people you care about, but it has to be done. I think there is a piece for everybody to eat. You work, you save, you invest, and you try to network more to invest. It's an endless cycle. One thing is for sure that brings it back to family for me, is that money and stability can be destroyed in the quest of the American Dream, if you don't take care of those around you. I mean that by emotionally as well as financially. You take care of those around you, and your base or support will carry you. I just think there are cycles for people to be rich, you just don't want to miss that train when it comes by.

 

[frische produkte]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

I don't believe everyone has a chance. I never thought that. But it depends on what that "chance" is.

There has to be people that fail.
There has to be people that succeed.

Everyone can't do either/or.

Everything is essentially based on a combination of luck, connections, work ethic. Any combination of the 3. Some people just have no shot of making it, even though others have made it in similar situations.

The American Dream to me is to make a lot of money doing something you love and being able to have enough $ to buy anything you want (for the most part).

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]Excellent answer.[/color]

 

[superantigen]

Originally Posted by MyJaysGetRocked

Do I believe that everyone has a chance? Yes...... But do I think that everyone has a fair chance? No

Personally, I find this to be very contradictory...

I mean think about it, if you don't have a "fair", leveled, equal-playing-field chance, do you really have a chance?

Would said chance even be worth the exploitation if you knew that your opportunities had already been capped?


...

 

[higherground]

What is up with you American's and this supposed dream? I thought that was a fantasy created in the 1950's.

the movie "Revolutionary Road" puts it in prespective.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I mean even on a SMALLER scale take a classroom for instance.

If EVERYONE in a class got an A for the semester, after a while, the higher ups will be wondering what this teacher is doing wrong that is "allowing" everyone to succeed with flying colors.

Nobody even EXPECTS everyone to succeed, let alone succeed with high proficiency.

 

[mangudai954]

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by MyJaysGetRocked

Do I believe that everyone has a chance? Yes...... But do I think that everyone has a fair chance? No

Personally, I find this to be very contradictory...

I mean think about it, if you don't have a "fair", leveled, equal-playing-field chance, do you really have a chance?

Would said chance even be worth the exploitation if you knew that your opportunities had already been capped?


...

Sure you do, its just going to be harder for you to get there as oppose to someone else who is better situated(connections, $$ etc).

 

[gtek]

There is no such thing......
"America" is too far in and the for "most" people
the standards have been set.
But then again it all depends on your definition of being successful within America.

George Carlin put it best...
"you have to be asleep to believe it"

http://www.youtube.com/v/acLW1vFO-2Q&fs=1&source=uds&autoplay=0http://www.youtube.com/v/acLW1vFO-2Q&fs=1&source=uds&autoplay=0

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

I mean even on a SMALLER scale take a classroom for instance.

If EVERYONE in a class got an A for the semester, after a while, the higher ups will be wondering what this teacher is doing wrong that is "allowing" everyone to succeed with flying colors.

Nobody even EXPECTS everyone to succeed, let alone succeed with high proficiency.

If we go by your logic when it comes to living in a society then what's the point of having a high standard of living?� If some people fail and some succeed in a society then it'd be fine if say, 1% of the popualtion accumulated 99% of the wealth. What was wrong with the feudal age then? Some failed, some succeeded. Some use a sword. Some use their brain. Some use both.

I'm not saying that the logic you expressed is wrong in every case. In a $#+* load of cases it is correct. However, in this case this type of  logic doesn't hold true.

There is no such thing......
"America" is too far in and the for "most" people
the standards have been set.
But then again it all depends on your definition of being successful within America.

George Carlin put it best...
"you have to be asleep to believe it"

Can't even express how G.O.A.T. Carlin was.

 

[superantigen]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

I mean even on a SMALLER scale take a classroom for instance.

If EVERYONE in a class got an A for the semester, after a while, the higher ups will be wondering what this teacher is doing wrong that is "allowing" everyone to succeed with flying colors.

Nobody even EXPECTS everyone to succeed, let alone succeed with high proficiency.

Very interesting point.

Don't you find this sad though--the notion that "nobody even expects everyone to succeed, let alone with high proficiency"; the idea that in order for someone to gain success... another must first fail; furthermore, if the situation is such that everyone succeeds, then it implies that the "system" of accreditation is, at the very least, flawed, and at the very most, broken.

Is this even normal? I hardly think or believe so.

...

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I guess it is normal to have success stories and failures. I mean you HAVE to have one exist for the other to exist. Right? There is no success witout failures and vice versa.

But yea, any system in which everyone succeeds is usually looked at as being broken.

 

[gtek]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

I guess it is normal to have success stories and failures. I mean you HAVE to have one exist for the other to exist. Right? There is no success witout failures and vice versa.

But yea, any system in which everyone succeeds is usually looked at as being broken.

No.
A Society/community must hold a foundation of unity
or no substantial strives can be made.
In today's society it may seem that with success someone elses failure is inevitable
but its only because the system that runs off of selfishness is truly
"broken".
Hence American and how the wealthy of today live off the back of the poor.

 

[th0mas cr0wn]

Originally Posted by GTEK



George Carlin put it best...
"you have to be asleep to believe it"

http://www.youtube.com/v/acLW1vFO-2Q&fs=1&source=uds&autoplay=0http://www.youtube.com/v/acLW1vFO-2Q&fs=1&source=uds&autoplay=0http://www.youtube.com/v/acLW1vFO-2Q&fs=1&source=uds&autoplay=0http://www.youtube.com/v/acLW1vFO-2Q&fs=1&source=uds&autoplay=0 http://www.youtube.com/v/acLW1vFO-2Q&fs=1&source=uds&autoplay=0http://www.youtube.com/v/acLW1vFO-2Q&fs=1&source=uds&autoplay=0

Nice

 

[agentarenas]

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

I mean even on a SMALLER scale take a classroom for instance.

If EVERYONE in a class got an A for the semester, after a while, the higher ups will be wondering what this teacher is doing wrong that is "allowing" everyone to succeed with flying colors.

Nobody even EXPECTS everyone to succeed, let alone succeed with high proficiency.

Very interesting point.

Don't you find this sad though--the notion that "nobody even expects everyone to succeed, let alone with high proficiency"; the idea that in order for someone to gain success... another must first fail; furthermore, if the situation is such that everyone succeeds, then it implies that the "system" of accreditation is, at the very least, flawed, and at the very most, broken.

Is this even normal? I hardly think or believe so.

...

If everyone succeeds, "success" wouldn't exist. People who are "successful" are seen as the minority, the extremely rich, the extremely smart, etc. Thats how most people see it. If everyone was a millionaire, they'd feel bad compared to "Successful" billionaires. Theres a term for it... I think its called relative deprivation? The system isn't at fault... We're at fault. I feel like (myself included) we all reach for the wrong things. Or at least for the wrong reasons. My definition of success shouldn't be your definition of success. To me success is a concept that is specific to each person. If we all had our own definitions of success, free from the material desires that we're fed since were young, I think it would work out better for everyone. That obviously wont happen though

I guess success is relative though. Put someone who makes 150k a year in a rural area where everyone makes a third of that, and he'll feel great. Put him in Miami and he'll feel like hes barely getting by.

 

[kix4kix]

My definition of the American dream is a house, and a family, and a steady job. I think that dream is a nightmare.

As far as survival of the fittest, I think Libertarians get the gist of it. sure they are all @+%+#%@#, but in the end, we care about ourselves. Everyone is not equal in actuality, but that is the way it has always been.

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

I guess it is normal to have success stories and failures. I mean you HAVE to have one exist for the other to exist. Right? There is no success witout failures and vice versa.

But yea, any system in which everyone succeeds is usually looked at as being broken.

Not really. Someone's success can benefit an ungodly number of people. Not all "successes" by an individual bring financial benefits to multitudes of people but there are enough examples out there.

An obvious example is the proliferation of the Windows operating system. Would there be a DELL, HP, GATEWAY, ACER, etc. if Gates/ Allen didn't succeed to the extent that they did?
William Gilbert discovered electricity and his success led to the success of people such as Thomas Edison and Nikola Tesla. In turn, their success led to the success of those who found corporations such as GE, Con Edison, etc. Warren Buffet's success led to the success of the early purchasers of his corp's shares. Steve Jobs success lead(s) to teh success of 3rd party Apple accessory manufacturers.


It's not always a zero sum game.

 

[gtek]

Originally Posted by AgentArenas

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

I mean even on a SMALLER scale take a classroom for instance.

If EVERYONE in a class got an A for the semester, after a while, thehigher ups will be wondering what this teacher is doing wrong that is"allowing" everyone to succeed with flying colors.

Nobody even EXPECTS everyone to succeed, let alone succeed with high proficiency.

Very interesting point.

Don'tyou find this sad though--the notion that "nobody even expects everyoneto succeed, let alone with high proficiency"; the idea that in orderfor someone to gain success... another must first fail; furthermore, ifthe situation is such that everyone succeeds, then it implies that the"system" of accreditation is, at the very least, flawed, and at thevery most, broken.

Is this even normal? I hardly think or believe so.

...

Ifeveryone succeeds, "success" wouldn't exist. People who are"successful" are seen as the minority, the extremely rich, theextremely smart, etc. Thats how most people see it. If everyone was amillionaire, they'd feel bad compared to "Successful" billionaires.Theres a term for it... I think its called relative deprivation? Thesystem isn't at fault... We're at fault. I feel like (myself included)we all reach for the wrong things. Or at least for the wrong reasons.My definition of success shouldn't be your definition of success. To mesuccess is a concept that is specific to each person. If we all had ourown definitions of success, free from the material desires that we'refed since were young, I think it would work out better for everyone.That obviously wont happen though

Iguess success is relative though. Put someone who makes 150k a year ina rural area where everyone makes a third of that, and he'll feelgreat. Put him in Miami and he'll feel like hes barely getting by.

As stated it all comes down to what your definition of "success" is.
and that links back to the world you were brought into and
what you were taught as a youth.
A place where everyone succeeds and are fully capable of pursuing
a righteous happiness in life has much possibility.
But until we get rid of this god-forsaken democracy
we're under today, none of that is foreseeable.

And over-throwing the struggle-hold placed upon today's society
is not foreseeable until we start educating
the youth, and ourselves on topics that
really matter, and how to achieve them in a unified matter.

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

I don't believe everyone has a chance. I never thought that.

 

[awwsome]

Originally Posted by GTEK

Originally Posted by AgentArenas

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

I mean even on a SMALLER scale take a classroom for instance.

If EVERYONE in a class got an A for the semester, after a while, thehigher ups will be wondering what this teacher is doing wrong that is"allowing" everyone to succeed with flying colors.

Nobody even EXPECTS everyone to succeed, let alone succeed with high proficiency.

Very interesting point.

Don'tyou find this sad though--the notion that "nobody even expects everyoneto succeed, let alone with high proficiency"; the idea that in orderfor someone to gain success... another must first fail; furthermore, ifthe situation is such that everyone succeeds, then it implies that the"system" of accreditation is, at the very least, flawed, and at thevery most, broken.

Is this even normal? I hardly think or believe so.

...

Ifeveryone succeeds, "success" wouldn't exist. People who are"successful" are seen as the minority, the extremely rich, theextremely smart, etc. Thats how most people see it. If everyone was amillionaire, they'd feel bad compared to "Successful" billionaires.Theres a term for it... I think its called relative deprivation? Thesystem isn't at fault... We're at fault. I feel like (myself included)we all reach for the wrong things. Or at least for the wrong reasons.My definition of success shouldn't be your definition of success. To mesuccess is a concept that is specific to each person. If we all had ourown definitions of success, free from the material desires that we'refed since were young, I think it would work out better for everyone.That obviously wont happen though

Iguess success is relative though. Put someone who makes 150k a year ina rural area where everyone makes a third of that, and he'll feelgreat. Put him in Miami and he'll feel like hes barely getting by.

As stated it all comes down to what your definition of "success" is.
and that links back to the world you were brought into and
what you were taught as a youth.
A place where everyone succeeds and are fully capable of pursuing
a righteous happiness in life has much possibility.
But until we get rid of this god-forsaken democracy
we're under today, none of that is foreseeable.

And over-throwing the struggle-hold placed upon today's society
is not foreseeable until we start educating
the youth, and ourselves on topics that
really matter, and how to achieve them in a unified matter.

Word.

But honestly, society has been ingrained with this false way of thinking for too long to change.
There will always be certain people who seek truth and see America for the circus act that it is, but that's where it stops.
Our school system is forever rigged, a kid can only learn what he needs to know through their own travels and it shouldn't have to be that way.