The Green Movement Has Horrible Marketing vol. Bad News For Humanity

[hovkid]

Do you know that you need to drive a prius or hybrid car for 12 years in order to make the extra money you pay to buy it worth it in terms of savings on gas?

12 years?  Which one of you is driving the same car for 12 years?

Please.  This green crap is so stupid already. 

 

[hovkid]

Originally Posted by DwyaneWadeOG

HOVKid how do you not have a recycling bin? Maybe its cause im from I'm from seattle but everyone around here has one. Recycling is not even "green crap" its now common sense.

When I moved into my house last year there wasn't one there.  I'm certainly not calling to get one and I'm certainly not dividing up my garbage each night.  I have a job and don't have time to go green.


  

 

[jpioneer]

Originally Posted by 10 Piece Nuggets

*sees a wall of text*


*leaves topic*

 

[j burner]

lmao...you still believe global warming exists? Even after the numerous, VERY recent scandals and out right lies that have been exposed via the "climategate" e-mail hackings? The fact that many scientists actually agree that the earth is COOLING, not warming. Global warming and the green movement exist only to make $$$ for the people who invested in the technology.

 

[duba169]

so let me get this straight. people like burner and hovkid, you actually believe that the human race has no prolonged negative effect on the environment? throw buzz word like global warming out of the picture and just answer me that question.

 

[txcaddyking]

Originally Posted by HOVKid

Originally Posted by DwyaneWadeOG

HOVKid how do you not have a recycling bin? Maybe its cause im from I'm from seattle but everyone around here has one. Recycling is not even "green crap" its now common sense.

When I moved into my house last year there wasn't one there.  I'm certainly not calling to get one and I'm certainly not dividing up my garbage each night.  I have a job and don't have time to go green.

I don't have time to "go green", but I have time to post nonsense on NT.  It doesn't take much time.  You put the bin out when you put the trash out.

I love the argument about not buying a Prius because it takes X amount of years to pay for the savings in gas.  Why do people buy luxury cars or even midsize cars if you don't have a large family?  Why do I see people drive SUVs if there is only one person in the car?  If everyone cared about the gas mileage vs sticker price, everyone would drive used CRXs.
  

 

[hovkid]

Originally Posted by DubA169

so let me get this straight. people like burner and hovkid, you actually believe that the human race has no prolonged negative effect on the environment? throw buzz word like global warming out of the picture and just answer me that question.

Of course it does but what do you want me to do?  Stand naked in a 1'x1' box and not eat or wash myself or go out of that box?  It's life.  We use the things around us to live.  

  

 

[dublbagn]

I think someone jacked Hovkids SN......this does not sound like the level minded person I have seen in the past.....

But let me toss in my 2 cents. I think were green goes wrong is trying to change the fundamentals of what people want and thats why it will fail. Why cant you make an electric car that looks good??? Who says I have to look like a D bag driving a prius if I want a great hybrid car? Make electric cars look like nice cars!!!! Use the electric motor as an option for standard models...and make the technology affordable for home use...I said it in another thread, 15 years to get my money back to convert to solar, thats not a smart investment for anyone...

Make the technology affordable, which is the direction its headed
Make "green things" not look like crap......

do both of these and I am all in....toss in an affordable garbage system that can split my recyclables, trash and compost materials and I would buy one of those too....

 

[eaalto]

Originally Posted by selrahc123

Originally Posted by eaalto

The most important part in your post is the cost of going green. The government, in part, helped aid in this by adding tax rebates to the purchase of hybrid cars, but what place does the government have in rewarding us for certain behaviors? It is not the government's role to try to persuade us into certain actions by throwing money at us.

When the technology is as cheap and available as the alternative, I think we will see change. I remember trying to rationalize my purchase of a Prius for the longest time. Everywhere I read said that you would be better off buying a Corolla, because of the lower initial cost, and that it would take at least 5 years to realize the difference in fuel savings to rationalize the higher purchase price of the Prius. I guarantee that if the Prius had the same price as non-hybrid alternatives, the sales of those cars would skyrocket. Now, the only way to realize the value of a fuel efficient car is to drive it. We have put 50,000 miles on our Prius in 2 years. At a very conservative estimate of 45 MPG lifetime, and a similar estimate of 28 MPG on the Corolla, I've realized a fuel savings of nearly $2,000. That number increases as the price of fuel goes up. I was hesitant to get the Prius, but I don't regret the decision in hindsight. It is a bore to drive, but it is very efficient, which I can appreciate.

If I drive every where at 65 MPH and coast to red lights, and accelerate slowly, I can easily squeeze mid 50s MPG, but it drives me crazy sometimes.

Oh my... you must be Brian from Family Guy lol

Haha, when I first got it I used to joke about the South Park episode, but I really just look at it as a car.  My wife wanted it more than I did, and she drives it most of the time because her commute is literally 20x longer than mine is.  I promise I'm not smug about it, it's a pretty lame car and I'm not afraid to admit it.

 

[jdb1523]

I read the article but am posting for later. I did my Masters dissertation on green marketing and consumer demand so I've got some knowledge in the area.

 

[stuntman mike]

Originally Posted by HOVKid

Originally Posted by DubA169

so let me get this straight. people like burner and hovkid, you actually believe that the human race has no prolonged negative effect on the environment? throw buzz word like global warming out of the picture and just answer me that question.

Of course it does but what do you want me to do?  Stand naked in a 1'x1' box and not eat or wash myself or go out of that box?  It's life.  We use the things around us to live.  

wow. just horrible. 
and not everyone that drives a prius does so for economical reasons. 

 

[eaalto]

Originally Posted by HOVKid

Do you know that you need to drive a prius or hybrid car for 12 years in order to make the extra money you pay to buy it worth it in terms of savings on gas?

12 years?  Which one of you is driving the same car for 12 years?

Please.  This green crap is so stupid already. 

The more you drive it, the faster you realize the lifetime savings.  I'm averaging 25,000 miles a year on mine.  Of course it doesn't make sense if you drive less than 10,000 miles a year, but if you do a lot of driving, then it makes perfect sense.  But in the end, I didn't get it because I care about the environment.  I don't recycle because I don't have a viable recycling option.  It's not that I can't take the time to do it, but like you, I don't see the point.
Redemption Values were created as fees as an incentive for people to recycle.  The only way I can see people taking recycling more seriously is if they seriously increase the fee they charge on beverage containers.  If you paid a dollar, rather than 5 cents, for every can of soda or beer that you drank, do you think you would be more inclined to save it and get your dollar back?

 

[soltheman]

Some of the things posted in this thread make me remember why I want to move away from the USA.

far, far away.

 

[10 piece nuggets]

Originally Posted by eaalto

Originally Posted by HOVKid

Do you know that you need to drive a prius or hybrid car for 12 years in order to make the extra money you pay to buy it worth it in terms of savings on gas?

12 years?  Which one of you is driving the same car for 12 years?

Please.  This green crap is so stupid already. 

The more you drive it, the faster you realize the lifetime savings.  I'm averaging 25,000 miles a year on mine.  Of course it doesn't make sense if you drive less than 10,000 miles a year, but if you do a lot of driving, then it makes perfect sense.  But in the end, I didn't get it because I care about the environment.  I don't recycle because I don't have a viable recycling option.  It's not that I can't take the time to do it, but like you, I don't see the point.
Redemption Values were created as fees as an incentive for people to recycle.  The only way I can see people taking recycling more seriously is if they seriously increase the fee they charge on beverage containers.  If you paid a dollar, rather than 5 cents, for every can of soda or beer that you drank, do you think you would be more inclined to save it and get your dollar back?

But it isnt a $1 back, so the what if's here are exactly that, what if.


I personally think the whole hybrid cars thing isnt as great as people think. Just based on the fact it takes a few years to get back the amound you paid for the hybrid vehicle with gas savings, the extra mileage cars do get is appreciated. I hate having to gas up after every long trip or few days. Wish NY had more full service stations.

 

[eaalto]

Originally Posted by 10 Piece Nuggets

Originally Posted by eaalto

Originally Posted by HOVKid

Do you know that you need to drive a prius or hybrid car for 12 years in order to make the extra money you pay to buy it worth it in terms of savings on gas?

12 years?  Which one of you is driving the same car for 12 years?

Please.  This green crap is so stupid already. 

The more you drive it, the faster you realize the lifetime savings.  I'm averaging 25,000 miles a year on mine.  Of course it doesn't make sense if you drive less than 10,000 miles a year, but if you do a lot of driving, then it makes perfect sense.  But in the end, I didn't get it because I care about the environment.  I don't recycle because I don't have a viable recycling option.  It's not that I can't take the time to do it, but like you, I don't see the point.
Redemption Values were created as fees as an incentive for people to recycle.  The only way I can see people taking recycling more seriously is if they seriously increase the fee they charge on beverage containers.  If you paid a dollar, rather than 5 cents, for every can of soda or beer that you drank, do you think you would be more inclined to save it and get your dollar back?

But it isnt a $1 back, so the what if's here are exactly that, what if.


I personally think the whole hybrid cars thing isnt as great as people think. Just based on the fact it takes a few years to get back the amound you paid for the hybrid vehicle with gas savings, the extra mileage cars do get is appreciated. I hate having to gas up after every long trip or few days. Wish NY had more full service stations.

I was choosing between a Corolla Type S and the Prius.  I'm not sure how much I could have talked down the Corolla, but the sticker was 23.6 on the Prius and I got it for 22.5.
Assuming the price difference is $5k, I'm only about 2-3 years away from realizing the gas savings vs. initial price difference.  But that's not why I bought the car.  My wife wanted it.  Her exact reason: "it was trendy."  

If you get really technical, people start whining about the nickel mining for the batteries, and the terrible carbon footprint and blah blah blah.  

 

[brettthejett]

I really wish I had time to take into consideration every response in these first two pages, but I don't.

I'm finishing Construction Engineering in college which will give me the skills to be a general contractor. As a general contractor it is my responsibility to find a set of specialty skills that I can adapt as my 'craft' if you will. Anyone can project manage etc, but in order to be successful I must specialize in something.

I don't hug tress, drive an electric car, sort my garbage or even really care about the environment.
However, as a soon to be organizer of major construction sites I feel that my personal concerns become irrelevant. The impact a construction site has compared to myself is insurmountable. Construction waste, resources consumed, and the environmental responsibility of that structure is a major impact in our world. One I am able to control; to an extent.

Ive taken this barrel of thoughts and said.. why not SPECIALIZE in environmentally concerned builds? I've already been studying the LEED program, and plan to become accredited this summer. My career goals go much higher than junior estimator or project coordinator. I won't stop working until I own a fully operated construction company focused 100% on LEEDs certified housing and multiparty residential structures.

So, your article applies directly to my target market. The point is environmentally concerned construction IS A niche market, and will not be a standard way of practice until someone steps up to the plate. Supposedly, that will be me. Once I have everything organized I simply need to find the social tipping point at which LEED certified construction is THEE STANDARD.

The current standards applied in construction design and practice today are not high enough for sustainable living and fossil fuels WILL be too scarce in our life time to heat our home. People need to somehow accept the requirements of living and buck up. The standards I see fit need to be the standards practiced by everyone.

We can get into the marketing flaws, unrealistic living situations and general lifestyle change that people fear, but the main concern is the 20%-25% price increase per square foot that people are unwilling to pay.


--Will post more later

 

[friendliest ghost]

 

[ac4three]

Originally Posted by HOVKid

Take that crap out of here tree hugger.

My wife and I had these people over our house the other night for dinner and one of them finished a bottle of water and was like "where do you put your recyclables"?  I said in the freaking garbage and she gave us this look like "you don't recycle????' with so much disdain.  Recylce?  Give me a break.

Let me tell you something:  F your priuses, recyling, sustainable living, go green tree hugger bs and learn to live in a wonderful world called reality.

Sorry.  I am a well educated person but I cannot stand this green crap anymore.  It's so annoying already. 

Lisa: Does your plant have a recycling program?

Mr. Burns: Re-cy-cling? I'm afraid I'm not familiar with that term you adorable little ragamuffin.

Lisa: You've never heard of recycling? It means to reuse things to conserve our natural resources.

Mr.Burns: Oh, so mother nature needs a favor?! Well maybe she should havethought about that when she was besetting us with droughts, and floodsand poison monkeys. Nature started the fight for survival and now shewants to quit because she is losing? Well I say, Hard Cheese.

 

[cor23ey]

More people VALUE helping themselves > than they VALUE the "green movement" and helping the world

 

[hess side 978]

can't say I'm worried about the future for my unborn children. I don't see myself dying because of pollution, so it really doesn't matter to me.

 

[whywesteppin]

I see where Hovkid is coming from and I agree mostly. If we really want to save the environment, it's going to take system-wide changes, initiated by an entity like government or industry. It's great when individuals contribute, but trying to shame other people into doing it is not going to get us anywhere.
Many people who think they're so green and great are probably hypocrites (like they drive a Prius but then live 20 miles from where they work to save money. They'd live near their work if they truly cared) and are also probably trying to use being "green" so that they can claim some moral superiority (since they can't do so based on other reasons).

 

[duba169]

Originally Posted by HOVKid

Originally Posted by DubA169

so let me get this straight. people like burner and hovkid, you actually believe that the human race has no prolonged negative effect on the environment? throw buzz word like global warming out of the picture and just answer me that question.

Of course it does but what do you want me to do?  Stand naked in a 1'x1' box and not eat or wash myself or go out of that box?  It's life.  We use the things around us to live.  

  

I see... but you are using extremes. if things like recycling and other "green" elements were practical would you go out of your way to !%$! up the environment? or is the main thing that it's too hard or expensive to live a little more "green"?

I don't see how "it's life" means much , our species has been known to adapt. The "things around us" change over history. Then again i'm the type that thinks that the world is gonna end in a way that has nothing to do with what we do with the enviornment becauyse we won;t make it that long sooo

 

[duba169]

Originally Posted by whywesteppin

Many people who think they're so green and great are probably hypocrites (like they drive a Prius but then live 20 miles from where they work to save money. They'd live near their work if they truly cared) and are also probably trying to use being "green" so that they can claim some moral superiority (since they can't do so based on other reasons).

just because half of the people involved in the green movement are annoying, smug, self serving jerks, doesn't mean that their cause in itself is unjust or pointless.

 

[mosthated770]

Originally Posted by 10 Piece Nuggets

*sees a wall of text*


*leaves topic*

4 real..

why the cliff notes long as @+#* too though?

 

[whywesteppin]

Originally Posted by DubA169

Originally Posted by whywesteppin

Many people who think they're so green and great are probably hypocrites (like they drive a Prius but then live 20 miles from where they work to save money. They'd live near their work if they truly cared) and are also probably trying to use being "green" so that they can claim some moral superiority (since they can't do so based on other reasons).

just because half of the people involved in the green movement are annoying, smug, self serving jerks, doesn't mean that their cause in itself is unjust or pointless.

Yeah, I'm not saying I'm against taking care of the environment, being efficient, etc... But, since this thread is about bad marketing, I was just saying the smugness of many people who are "green" makes it harder for the rest of us to want to join in.
It's like the guy who prays in public so that everyone else thinks he's pious. "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. "