I see it with Ingram. Wasn't high on him at first, but there is a tone of potential with him. Really smart player on offense. Sneaky good passer too. He has some of the worst tats I've seen in a minute though . Needs a new tat man ASAP once he gets that bag.
Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler! Print and Go Back ESPN.com: NBA [Print without images] Friday, December 18, 2015 Updated: January 11, 1:13 PM ET Ben Simmons, Brandon Ingram lead Big Board 4.0; Ellenson keeps rising By Chad Ford ESPN Insider Ben Simmons has NBA scouts giddy, and Brandon Ingram and Dragan Bender have shown All-Star potential. Some teams include Henry Ellenson in that group as well. 2016 NBA draft Get ready for Ben Simmons, Skal Labissiere and the 2016 draft with analysis from Chad Ford and other ESPN experts. Mock Draft 2.0 | Big Board 3.0 Top 10 Cs | Top 10 PFs Top 10 SFs | Top 10 SGs Top 10 PGs | Top 100 rankings But after those four NBA draft prospects, scouts see an inconsistent freshman class. In projecting the draft, this provides opportunities to upperclassmen to crash the lottery, and several juniors and seniors have risen dramatically since our last update. This is a more detailed look at the top 30 players in our Top 100. It tracks player movement and stock fluctuation, and gives you the latest intel from NBA scouts. So here it is: Big Board 4.0. 1. Ben Simmons Previous rank: No. 1 LSU Freshman Forward Simmons continues to wow scouts. You just don't find 6-foot-10, 240-pound, athletic players with his feel for the game. He has also started to get more aggressive offensively, which has reassured some scouts who were worried he has been a little too unselfish. Simmons currently leads all freshmen in the country in PPG and RPG and ranks second in APG. But it's not just the freshman class he's dominating. He currently leads all college players in PER and ranks third in the country in RPG. His jumper? Well, he's still not showing much there, but he has been so effective at getting to the basket, he really hasn't needed it. Watch: Ben Simmons highlights Video 2. Brandon Ingram Previous rank: No. 2 Duke Freshman Forward Since Ingram bounced back from a slow start and exploded for 24 points against Indiana, he has been one of the two or three best players in the country. In that nine-game stretch, Ingram has averaged 20.6 PPG, 8 RPG, 2.1 BPG and 1.9 SPG and shot a red-hot 47 percent from 3-point country. While he clearly needs to add strength, scouts have been impressed with his toughness. Simmons is the clear No. 1 right now, but I've had a handful of NBA execs suggest to me that he isn't the only top-shelf prize of this draft. "In a normal draft year, Ingram would be a terrific No. 1 pick," one NBA GM said. "If we win the lottery, I think we'd take Simmons. But we'd seriously consider Ingram. He could be a monster on both ends of the floor in time." Watch: Brandon Ingram highlights Video 3. Dragan Bender Previous rank: No. 3 Croatia Age: 18 Forward/center After averaging just 3.6 PPG in 11 MPG for Maccabi Tel Aviv in his first nine games, Bender has seen his role expand in the Israeli league lately. In his subsequent three games he spiked to 13.7 PPG and shot 7-for-13 from beyond the arc. For the season Bender is shooting nearly 52 percent from 3, an important number for scouts who came into the season wondering how he'd fare on the perimeter. His poor rebounding numbers, however, remain a cause for concern. He still hasn't seen major action in the Euroleague yet, but his increased opportunity with Maccabi is a welcome sight among scouts. 4. Henry Ellenson Previous rank: No. 6 Marquette Freshman Forward/center Last month I wrote that Ellenson was a hot month away from surpassing Jaylen Brown and Skal Labissiere on our board. I wouldn't say he lit it up over the past month, but his more-than-solid play as a freshman -- combined with major struggles by Brown and Labissiere -- has pushed him past both. His shaky 3-point shooting (just 26 percent from deep) is a source of concern, but he's stroking the ball from everywhere else on the floor. "Every time I see him I can't help but see some Kevin Love there," one NBA GM said. "He's probably a better shooter at this stage and I think he's a more willing passer." With teams emphasizing bigs who can stretch the floor and still protect the rim, he should be very popular on draft night. Watch: Henry Ellenson highlights Video 5. Kris Dunn Previous rank: No. 9 Providence Junior Guard Dunn has been one of the three or four best players in the country. His speed with the ball, creative ball handling, passing skills and willingness to rebound are all major pluses. And after a slow start shooting from deep, Dunn is 11-for-17 from 3 in his past four games. His age (he turns 22 in March) and questions about his long-term shooting promise (his 65 percent free throw shooting is telling) give scouts pause. But with the possible exception of Buddy Hield, there hasn't been a more dynamic guard in the country this season. 6. Jaylen Brown Previous rank: No. 5 Cal Freshman Forward After a so-so start Brown has played better lately, averaging 15.6 PPG and 8 RPG, but he's ranked this high primarily because of his elite athleticism and strength for a player his size. His lack of a consistent 3-point shot (26 percent from deep) and incessant turnovers (averaging four TOs a game over his past six games) are worrisome. To stay this high on the board, he needs to play under more control and hit his 3s. 7. Jakob Poeltl Previous rank: No. 7 Utah Sophomore Center Poeltl continues to look like the only pure center in the lottery. He has nine double-doubles this season and dominates in the paint, where he takes a whopping 85 percent of his shots and converts at a terrific 70 percent rate. He's not particularly sexy as a prospect -- scouts continue to see some Omer Asik in him -- but in this draft, that's what you may have to settle for outside the top five. 8. Jamal Murray Previous rank: No. 8 Kentucky Freshman Guard Where would Kentucky be without Murray right now? While the rest of its elite recruiting class has struggled, Murray has been the Wildcats' go-to scorer. Murray's ability to create his own shot, his deep range and his terrific feel all make him a great prospect. However, scouts are beginning to wonder about his ability to play the point in the NBA. When Tyler Ulis is out and Murray is running the offense, he doesn't look as comfortable as some hoped. That could give teams pause before taking him in the top 10. At 6-foot-5, he has great size if he's a point guard. But if he's a 2-guard in the NBA, he's average in size and that could be an issue without elite athleticism. Watch: Jamal Murray highlights Video 9. Furkan Korkmaz Previous rank: No. 10 Turkey Age: 18 Forward Korkmaz has moved into the starting lineup for Efes the past four games and is finally seeing a larger role for the team. In his last game in the Top 16, he scored seven points in 16 minutes. He's shooting 41 percent from 3 this season, and that's where the primary interest comes among scouts. Talented 2-guards are hard to come by right now, especially those with the size and shooting ability of Korkmaz. Korkmaz may not be a star yet, but the role he plays on a Euroleague team is impressive for his age. 10. Skal Labissiere Previous rank: No. 4 Kentucky Freshman Center/forward It has been another horrific month for the big man who was originally ranked No. 2 here. He has totally lost confidence in his game and rarely has an impact at either end. In Kentucky's last game against Alabama, he played just four minutes and collected zero points and three fouls. Labissiere's slide from the No. 2 spot isn't unprecedented. We had Andre Drummond ranked No. 2 in the 2011-12 preseason, right behind Anthony Davis. His lethargic play at UConn caused him to slide all the way to No. 9 on draft night. However, four years later, he's a dominant NBA center. That's why scouts preach patience. I spoke with NBA scouts and execs from over half the league about Labissiere. Some teams have him as high as No. 6 or No. 7 on their boards, while the others have him lower. All of them are hoping he returns to Kentucky for another year to work on his strength and toughness. But if he does declare? His perimeter skills -- which teams really haven't seen at Kentucky -- and his upside will be the lures. 11. Wade Baldwin IV Previous rank: No. 18 Vanderbilt Sophomore Guard Teams are looking for top point guard prospects, and most teams now have Baldwin second at the position. The analytics crowd loves him, he has terrific size and strength for his position, and he can really shoot the basketball. But his turnovers can be a problem and his team is really struggling right now after being projected by many to be a potential Final Four team. That never looks good when you are a point guard. 12. Ivan Rabb Previous rank: No. 11 Cal Freshman Forward/center A year ago Rabb was ahead of Labissiere on most recruiting boards, only to see the Kentucky prospect pass him after a terrific spring. Now Rabb, who some believed lacked the physicality to be a one-and-done prospect, could end up ahead of Labissiere. Rabb has not only been a solid low-post threat (he shoots 80 percent at the rim) and rebounder for Cal, he also has shown the ability to step out and shoot. He's hitting 46 percent of his jumpers, about 20 percent higher than teammate Jaylen Brown. 13. Diamond Stone Previous rank: No. 21 Maryland Freshman Center Stone has found a real niche coming off the bench for Maryland and has quietly put up terrific numbers for the Terrapins, including a crazy 39-point performance against Penn State. He's not a particularly stunning athlete, but his ability to score in the paint makes him an intriguing prospect. Scouts are really starting to warm up to him. He could end up being the next center off the board after Poeltl. 14. Buddy Hield Previous rank: No. 29 Oklahoma Senior Guard It's tough to know where exactly to place Hield. He arguably has been the best player in college basketball, especially offensively, averaging 26.6 PPG and shooting 52 percent from 3-point range. Scouts complained for years about Hield's poor shot selection at Oklahoma, and he still takes lots of wild shots. The difference is that now they're going in. The 46 points he dropped on Kansas might be the best individual performance of the season. But there are concerns. His age, lack of size for his position and tendency to get careless with the ball all worry scouts. Everyone loves his heart, scoring ability and confidence, but how much of his success will really translate in the pros? Scouts are having huge debates about that right now. 15. Timothe Luwawu Previous rank: No. 15 France Age: 20 Guard/forward Luwawu continues to impress for Mega Vizura in the Adriatic League. In his last game against Zadar, he dropped 29 points, grabbed 9 rebounds and made 5 assists. His combination of athleticism and size is attractive. The Adriatic League isn't as difficult as the ACB or Euroleague, but his strong performance has been impressive for a player his age. 16. Caris LeVert Previous rank: No. 14 Michigan Senior Guard/forward LeVert had been terrific for Michigan before a lower left leg injury kept him out of the past two games. He has been shooting the ball with range, showing terrific court vision and versatility. And despite being a senior, he's only 21 years old. 17. Deyonta Davis Previous rank: N/A Michigan State Freshman Forward The early attention at Michigan State has rightfully been focused on Denzel Valentine, but a number of scouts have walked away from Spartans games saying Valentine isn't the best pro prospect on the team. There aren't a lot of elite shot-blockers in this draft and Davis has been a menace in the paint. Factor in his terrific athleticism and the ability to step out and hit from midrange (he's shooting 51 percent on his 2-point shots this season) and Davis has been quietly rising on draft boards all season. He needs to get stronger, but he has become a legitimate sleeper in the draft. 18. Demetrius Jackson Previous rank: No. 12 Notre Dame Junior Guard Jackson is having a very solid junior season for Notre Dame. His combination of strength, shooting ability and defensive toughness is coveted in the NBA. But it does seem as if his stock has cooled a bit in the past few weeks among scouts, despite a few strong performances against Pitt and Boston College. 19. Thomas Bryant Previous rank: No. 16 Indiana Freshman Center Bryant continues to do what he does: score around the basket at a high percentage and play hard. He's a bit slow-footed and neither an elite rebounder nor a shot-blocker. However, he does have a jump shot that could allow him to be an inside-outside threat in the pros. Like so many other players on this list, he's not ready. But teams love upside. 20. Jonathan Jeanne Previous rank: No. 17 France Age: 18 Center/forward Jeanne is a draft-and-stash pick as a huge, skilled forward who lacks the strength or game experience to make an impact right away. His future looks brighter if he stays in France a few more years and eats lots and lots of cheese. But if he were to declare for the draft, I'm told he'd likely go somewhere in the mid-first round. 21. Gary Payton II Previous rank: N/A Oregon State Senior Guard My man Kevin Pelton has been leading Payton's bandwagon since last year. This year, Payton is ranked in Pelton's top-five projected WARP. Finally, scouts are also starting to see the light. Payton's defensive abilities, much like his father's, are his calling card. But his passing has improved and his rebounding is elite for a guard. He's not a shooter, and he's already 23, but it's starting to look like he might be a first-rounder. 22. Taurean Prince Previous rank: N/A Baylor Senior Forward By most accounts, Prince isn't having quite as strong a season as he did as a junior. However, that hasn't stopped scouts from continuing to like what he brings to the table. Athletic wings who can shoot and lock down players on the perimeter come at a premium. 23. Grayson Allen Previous rank: No. 22 Duke Sophomore Guard Allen continues to be a dominant scorer for Duke and a lights-out shooter from 3. He has had two bad games this season, and his last one against Utah came when he played with the flu. His lack of size seems to be the biggest issue holding him back. But if Buddy Hield can keep climbing, I'm not sure why Allen, who's the same size, can't do the same. 24. Zhou Qi Previous rank: No. 24 China Age: 19 Center Zhou is still having a terrific season in China, averaging 17.4 PPG, 9.8 RPG and 3.6 BPG while shooting 67 percent from the floor for Xinjiang. He's also shooting 6-for-10 from 3. Strength continues to be the major issue for him. 25. Denzel Valentine Previous rank: No. 23 Michigan State Senior Forward/guard Valentine has missed the past four games after suffering a minor knee injury against Northeastern. Before the injury he was widely considered a front-runner for player of the year honors and was moving up in the draft. He keeps his place here late in the first round until scouts can see how well he bounces back from the setback. 26. Tyler Dorsey Previous rank: N/A Oregon Freshman Guard Dorsey cracked our second Big Board after a strong performance for Greece at the under-19 championships. He fell out of Big Board 3.0, but is back after continuing to show so much promise at Oregon. Not only has he been shooting the ball well (49 percent from 3), but a number of scouts believe he has the ability to play point guard in the NBA someday. 27. Malik Newman Previous rank: No. 26 Mississippi State Freshman Guard Newman got off to a rocky start, but he has started hitting his shots from deep and has been much steadier. He still doesn't look much like a point guard, but as they are with so many other players on this list, scouts are calling for patience. 28. Cheick Diallo Previous rank: No. 13 Kansas Freshman Forward/center Diallo has been horrible for Kansas in the early going, and unlike with Labissiere, scouts can't point to a skill that would be unleashed in a different system. Diallo's strength has always been that he works hard and plays defense. But he is a below-average offensive player and that has really shown early for Kansas. Scouts are still very intrigued, but everyone I spoke with felt he needed at least one more full year of college ball. 29. Marquese Chriss Previous rank: N/A Washington Freshman Forward Chriss is a total upside play. There just aren't many 6-foot-9 players with his athleticism and skill. When he can stay out of foul trouble, and stay focused, there really isn't anything he can't do. He can shoot it, rebound and even handle the ball a little. But right now, he's wildly inconsistent. 30. Domantas Sabonis Previous rank: No. 27 Gonzaga Sophomore Forward Sabonis has been super productive for Gonzaga. But his lack of elite athleticism and shooting ability has hurt his stock. Still, he's such a great rebounder with such a high basketball IQ that he'll be tough to pass on in the late first round. Next five in Stephen Zimmerman, F/C, Fr., UNLV; Melo Trimble, PG, So., Maryland; Damian Jones, C, Jr., Vanderbilt; Carlton Bragg Jr., F, Fr., Kansas; Josh Hart, SG, Jr., Villanova
Murray surpasses Skal, I agree with this. I see how there is concern over Murray's PG skills and how he doesn't have elite athleticism for a SG but he's crafty as hell. Jordan Clarkson doesn't strike me as either a PG or SG and that's how I see Murray. I wouldn't worry about that at all on the next level I honestly would LOVE to see a highlight reel of ALL of the jump shots attempted by Simmons. I honestly haven't witnessed a SINGLE perimeter shot by him. I've watched quite a bit of LSU too. His FT stroke is just fine and he made a ton of them last game
Clarkson is a billion times more athletic and also no one even knows if Clarkson is a starting caliber player. CJ Collunm seems like a reasonable ceiling. It would be great if he could figure out how to play PG, but I don't see it and have never seen with him ever.
I wasn't using clarkson as a comp nor a ceiling just an example of a guy who can play either guard position. Whatever clarkson ceiling is, he definitely has a place in the league for years to come Cj is a good comparison and he definitely has a place in the league as well. Athleticism is more similar to murrays Point being in this draft Murray is a nice pick for me even top 10
Speaking now of Kentucky guards, the jig is up on Briscoe a little. When he can't overpower younger kids and have the ball in his hands, there isn't much else there. Can't' shoot a lick. I actually am high on Ulis as a pro...obviously he has severe limitations defensively but that kid from day 1 can come in and run a second unit to me. Bunch of small guys have had success recently and think he can follow in their footsteps.
I never cared for him. I don't wish bad on people, but Briscoe and Blakeney stinking it up is funny to me
Yea Briscoe is terrible in the role Cal has him in. Guess you gotta see him in a lone role at pg, bc right now he looks like a Harrison twin.
Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler! ESPN's All-Time #NBArank is underway, with the top 10 point guards leading off. Our NBA Insiders weigh in on the rankings and how different they might look when Stephen Curry and Russell Westbrook play a few more seasons. 1. Which top-10 point guard is ranked too low? J.A. Adande, ESPN.com: Isiah Thomas. Even though he was considered an early version of a scoring point guard, he led the league in total assists twice. And he also could claim playoff series victories against Larry Bird, Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson (although Magic missed most of the 1989 Finals with a hamstring injury). Amin Elhassan, ESPN Insider: Jason Kidd. While he didn't shoot as well as Steve Nash, Chris Paul or Curry, Kidd excelled at almost every other facet of the game, and in his twilight he became a much improved shooter. One of the greatest rebounding guards of all time, an elite defender and an underrated back-to-the-basket player. Editor's Picks Pelton: One trade the Thunder need to make The Thunder need a shooting guard, Kevin Pelton writes, and the Grizzlies could help once they admit they're not contenders this season. Pelton: Did Cavs win the Love-Wiggins trade? Would Andrew Wiggins have been a better fit next to LeBron James than Kevin Love? Kevin Pelton judges whether the Cavs are better off after one of the most fascinating trades in NBA history. Tom Haberstroh, ESPN Insider: Nash. The guy they call "Two-Time" for earning a pair of MVP trophies is a couple of slots higher on my list. He was basically a career member of the 50/40/90 club (with field goal, 3-point and free throw percentages of .490/.428/.904) and was the league's assist leader for five seasons. He revolutionized the sport with unthinkable efficiency and playmaking. Bradford Doolittle, ESPN Insider: Bob Cousy has got to be top five. He set the template for how we've thought of point guards for 60 years, led the league in assists for eight straight years and helped six Celtics teams to championships. And he did it with panache. Kevin Pelton, ESPN Insider: Kidd has a strong combination of peak value and incredible longevity. He's second all time in both assists and steals, as well as one of the greatest rebounding point guards ever. He shouldn't have to sneak into the top 10. 2. Which top-10 point guard is ranked too high? Adande: Curry. This might simply be a matter of time, because he hasn't been around long enough to rack up the accomplishments of the rest of the guys in the top five -- guys who either held the all-time assists record or won multiple championships. Check back later (and see below). Elhassan: Curry. It pains me to say it, as he's one of my favorite players to watch and he's having an all-time great season, but he just doesn't have the longevity to compete with several of the names ahead of him at this time. Honorable mention: Bob Cousy, whose talents wouldn't time-travel well. Haberstroh: Frazier. Keenest eye for fashion? No one is, was or will be better than Clyde. But I'd slot Bob Cousy ahead of Frazier, who was never top three in the MVP vote and had half as many All-Star appearances as the Celtic. There is no outrage here on my part, but if I had to choose one switch, that's my pick. Doolittle: There's no way to answer this without nitpicking the feats of a bona fide Hall of Famer, but Isiah Thomas is overrated here. Great player who won a couple of titles. But though Thomas was the headliner, the Pistons took off when he became more a member of an ensemble that won with balance and defense. Pelton: Even if we give him full credit for winning another MVP this season, Curry still belongs toward the bottom of the list. He has only been an All-Star twice! Kidd was an All-NBA first team pick five times. He needs to add more to his résumé -- which I fully expect he will. Will Curry be one of the top three point guards ever? Kyle Terada/USA TODAY Sports 3. Where will Stephen Curry be ranked at the end of his career? Adande: He could get to third. He already has won more championships than John Stockton. He won't match the assist numbers but will blow him away on 3-pointers. But the reverence I have for Magic Johnson -- and in turn the reverence he has for Oscar Robertson -- make it hard for me to picture anyone supplanting those two. They controlled entire games, where Curry takes over for scintillating stretches. Elhassan: If he continues with this elevated level of play for several more years, Curry should end up where he's ranked right now (4th). He probably won't reach Magic's track record of success, Robertson's dominance or Stockton's combination of excellence and longevity, but Curry's first in line for the rest. Haberstroh: Third. He's not even halfway through his career, so this admittedly feels premature. As crazy as it sounds, he could own a pair of titles and MVPs at age-28 and Robertson only owns one of each. Curry wields an all-time skill set that doesn't age (his handle and 3-point shooting), but a delayed entry to superstardom hurts his all-time stock. For now. Doolittle: We're a little ahead of ourselves with Curry. He's in only his seventh season! But I'll predict he ends up right where we have him, at No. 4. Maybe he gets past Stockton for No. 3, but that would mean he has remained elite for another eight or nine years. That could happen, but so could lots of other things. I mean, if we were doing these rankings 40 years ago, we would have put Nate Archibald in the top five. Pelton: Given what I just said, it's hard for Curry to move up the point guard rankings too much. He's likely to jump Stockton and battle Robertson for second on the list behind Magic. 4. Where will Russell Westbrook be ranked at the end of his career? Adande: Just outside the top 10. Westbrook could end up like Charles Barkley or Bo Jackson, with more indelible memories than lasting achievements -- one of those players whose actions you had to see more than whose numbers you need to look up. Rankings are typically based on statistics, and there's no statistical category for most athletic player at the position. Elhassan: I don't know if he cracks the top 10 unless he has an epiphany and becomes a much more cerebral player over the second half of his career. He's the most athletic player to ever play the position, and I definitely have him over Cousy. But I struggle to see him surpassing the likes of Gary Payton, Walt Frazier, Jason Kidd, et al. Haberstroh: Top 10. I'd love to put him higher, but his game is so dependent on ruthless athleticism that I can't see a dominant second half of his career, when his wheels start to go flat. He ranks first among point guards in points per 100 possessions through age 27, but he can't be this explosive forever. Right? RIGHT? Doolittle: He'll end up lower than we have him now. He's a freak of nature and all, but as soon as his athleticism declines, we're looking at years of high-volume, low-efficiency production. I just don't see him as having an extended peak. Pelton: Maybe eighth or ninth. I don't see Westbrook winning an MVP, and he'd probably need that or a title to jump guys such as Paul and Nash. I wouldn't be stunned if Westbrook ends up peaking early. 5. Which current NBA PGs will make the top 10 eventually? Not including Curry, Westbrook and Chris Paul. Adande: At some point we're going to have to account for Tony Parker and his four (at least) championships. In this Golden Era of Point Guards he's the only one of the current crop who has a Finals MVP, yet he's constantly left out of the discussion. Tim Duncan was the foundation of the Spurs, but they often were only as successful as Parker made them. Elhassan: John Wall? Damian Lillard? Kyrie Irving? Really, I don't think any current player not named Curry, Paul or Westbrook has a legitimate chance. Then again, three current top-10 players (Curry, Nash and Stockton) had slow starts to their respective careers and ended up among the game's greats. Haberstroh: For me, Irving has the best chance of cracking the top 10, but I still don't think it's likely. Irving's just 23 years old and on his way to becoming one of the best scoring point guards ever. That is, if he can stay healthy. That's a big if. Wall and Lillard enter their primes as some of the best point guards today, but I'd project them in a tier with Tim Hardaway and Kevin Johnson. Doolittle: None of them, with the most likely candidates being Irving (who already has injury problems piling up) and Wall. Part of the problem is that with the pick-and-roll taking over as the default NBA play, efficiency and productivity at the point guard position have become the norm. Pelton: Westbrook is the only one not currently in the top 10 I'd give a good chance of getting there. Irving is probably the next best candidate but that's a long ways off.