The Official NBA Season Thread: NBA Cup Night

[osh kosh bosh]

Nasty work

No Luka?

 

[finessence]

“More of a threat from 3”

Stockton was one the best shooters of the 90s. He just wasn’t a volume shooter

Stockton had 7 seasons where he shot .400+ from 3… what are we doing here ?

 

[nick.]

Interesting stat

we need to at least try a Brunson-Donte-Bridges-OG-Randle lineup

 

[SORIANOTRON]

“More of a threat from 3”

Stockton had 7 seasons where he shot .400+ from 3… what are we doing here ?

thats pretty cool.

Nash is 42% for his CAREER.

yes Nash would close games assisting and SCORING, nash would also attack mimatches.

Stock would never.

 

[finessence]

One day you'll learn you can impact basketball games in ways that aren't quantified by points per game.

This is exactly why we say he ISN’T better than Kidd who literally had the same type of impact.

As and individual scorer/singular offensive threat, Nash wasn’t that guy. I’m talking solely as an INDIVIDUAL.

You’re talking about TEAM offense. I’m talking individually.

 

[ill steelo]

Interesting stat

They were able to put out some of the most well-balanced lineups of all time.

3 point shooting and defense at every single position.

Team looked like a monster on paper this time last year and they went out & played exactly like that.

 

[finessence]

thats pretty cool.

Nash is 42% for his CAREER.

yes Nash would close games assisting and SCORING, nash would also attack mimatches.

Stock would never.

Would never? He did SEVERAL times. He was the 2nd option for Utah.

Nash 42% vs Stockton 38%… that’s close to equal. Not “more reliable”

Folks really comparing Steve Nash to Steph and Magic

 

[osh kosh bosh]

This is exactly why we say he ISN’T better than Kidd who literally had the same type of impact.

As and individual scorer/singular offensive threat, Nash wasn’t that guy. I’m talking solely as an INDIVIDUAL.

He literally didn't have the exact same type of impact. His teams had consistently terrible offense.

You’re talking about TEAM offense. I’m talking individually.

This isn't tennis. The point is for the TEAM to score. Nash generated more.points for his TEAM vis scoring and playmaking.

If your a great offensive force your TEAM should score more efficiently.

 

[SORIANOTRON]

Would never? He did SEVERAL times. He was the 2nd option for Utah.

Nash 42% vs Stockton 38%… that’s close to equal. Not “more reliable”

Folks really comparing Steve Nash to Steph and Magic

Have a nice day brother, I'm relieving myself from this covo.

You will see what you want to see, but I'm not the only one disagreeing with you here.

Nash and Stock are both amazing, HOF PG's.

 

[JD617]

Stockton had 7 seasons where he shot .400+ from 3… what are we doing here ?

Nash had 14. He was arguably the best shooter ever before Steph came along.

 

[finessence]

Nash had 14. He was arguably the best shooter ever before Steph came along.

The title of greatest shooter went to Larry Bird, Ray Allen or Reggie Miller prior to Steph. Nice try though. Ray Allen was always considered the greatest shooter around that time. Him and Reggie. We revising history now

Again, dude wasn’t some stand alone offense juggernaut, he needed others around him.

Damn near everyone else that has been mentioned was a #1 option or was an aggressive scorer

 

[clyde the glide]

I didn't say Kidd and GP were average, I think they are good, but Nash is a game breaker. When Kidd was the primary offensive engine he basically never had a truly elite offense. most of the time they were below league average, often well below. Usually in the 20s.

This is over multiple franchises, multiple sets of teammates,
I think it's fair to say that despite Kidd's passing, his limitations as a shooter and scorer made so you probably weren't generating elite offense.

GP was better, drove more elite offenses. But again the scale of impact is just wildly different. GP had top 5 offenses, Nash had top 5 all time league history offenses.










We are talking about the greats off all time. Literally who cares about whatever they did as ring chasing old players.

I care about at their best who was better. Not who managed to hang on. And grab a ring at the end.

Also how far they led them in the playoffs is a much smaller sample and far more contextual, Kidd and GP plays in weak conferences at the time.

The fact that Kidd was able to get to the finals in some of the weakest eastern conferences in history means very little to me. And the west was weaker in GPd era.

Defense matters, but PG defense matters but so much. It's just fundamentally an offensive position.






Yah it's a PG tho, it's just not that hard to hide a PG.

Suns were league average defense despite playing Amar'e at Center. I just don't think there's much evidence that Nash was such a huge liability.

Lol im talking about who the better pgs were since that list ranking them was posted. You are trying to make it about who led the "statistically greatest offense" ever according to some pointless stat you found. That is the only argument you have and are leaning on but i can respect it. Canadia basketball has come along way since Nash was leading it, you should be proud/biased

 

[addict4sneakers]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Lol im talking about who the better pgs were since that list ranking them was posted. You are trying to make it about who led the "statistically greatest offense" ever according to some pointless stat you found. That is the only argument you have and are leaning on but i can respect it. Canadia basketball has come along way since Nash was leading it, you should be proud/biased

Which teams scored more is a pointless stat when discussing who is a better PG?

Okay lol my bad.

 

[finessence]

Lol im talking about who the better pgs were since that list ranking them was posted. You are trying to make it about who led the "statistically greatest offense" ever according to some pointless stat you found. That is the only argument you have and are leaning on but i can respect it. Canadia basketball has come along way since Nash was leading it, you should be proud/biased

A proficient offense is all that matters to him. Meanwhile, GP and Kidd are both top 5 in steals and both top 11 in assists.

Meanwhile, Nash is top 5 in assists and bottom 250 in steals

Gary and Kidd also scored more points… but they somehow don’t belong in the same breath as Nash

I kind of want to say Chauncey Billups is better just to make them mad.

But his MVPs hold wayyyyyy more weight than those guys with the championships and stats to go with it.

The MVPs and an efficient offense is all that matters though

 

[finessence]

Which teams scored more is a pointless stat when discussing who is a better PG?

Okay lol my bad.

… yet you totally overlook the defensive aspect. What’s the point of scoring if you can’t stop anyone. Steve Nash couldn’t stop anyone.

GP and Kidd were 2-way players.

Again, Nash may have scored or assisted on 30+ points, but he gave up 25+ points on the defensive end

Kidd and GP both individually lead their teams to a finals appearance.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Few NT arguments addressed here.

 

[JD617]

The title of greatest shooter went to Larry Bird, Ray Allen or Reggie Miller prior to Steph. Nice try though. Ray Allen was always considered the greatest shooter around that time. Him and Reggie. We revising history now

Not revising anything. Ray and Reggie had arguments too because they had more volume but Nash shot a higher percentage and shot fewer off the catch.

Again, dude wasn’t some stand alone offense juggernaut, he needed others around him.

You're right, I'm sure this was just a wild coincidence.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

re: Nash / Kidd / GP

If I'm putting a team together, I would rather have Kidd/GP. I would prefer my lead guard to be able to hold his own nuts on the defensive side of the ball. But I can completely understand why in the modern game someone WOULD select Nash over either of them.

I just look at what both Kidd and GP did for their squads, elevating them to finals appearances. Sure they didn't win it all but look who they went up against. Ultimate winners. Ultimate leaders. Big strong point guards.

Mark Price is in my Rush Mount Rushmore of PGs (personal favorites), so of course I got love for Nash since he is from Pure Shooting / Distributing archetype.

So EYE wouldn't trip at any order of the 3. They all have distinct strengths and weaknesses.

 

[elpablo21]

Imagine Nash's impact in today's game. He would be insane.

In those era conversations, he's always one of those guys I wish could've played in today's era.

His volume probably goes up in today's game and we would have been lucky to never hear how many points he scored per game again

 

[clyde the glide]

 

[finessence]

His volume probably goes up in today's game and we would have been lucky to never hear how many points he scored per game again

He had the volume somewhat back then and was still passive

He never had the ability to be a #1 option offensively

Dirk, Amare, Kobe. He’s absolutely nothing without those guys. Again, he rode the bench his first 4 seasons.

Nash couldn’t do anything without guys like Amare, Kobe or Dirk

He was incapable

 

[MVP]

re: Nash / Kidd / GP

If I'm putting a team together, I would rather have Kidd/GP. I would prefer my lead guard to be able to hold his own nuts on the defensive side of the ball. But I can completely understand why in the modern game someone WOULD select Nash over either of them.

I just look at what both Kidd and GP did for their squads, elevating them to finals appearances. Sure they didn't win it all but look who they went up against. Ultimate winners. Ultimate leaders. Big strong point guards.

Mark Price is in my Rush Mount Rushmore of PGs (personal favorites), so of course I got love for Nash since he is from Pure Shooting / Distributing archetype.

So EYE wouldn't trip at any order of the 3. They all have distinct strengths and weaknesses.

Nash is great if you love the fancy stats and regular season success, but back then and even now that's **** usually doesn't translate for when it counts most. We see every year these greatest most efficient offenses off all time getting to the playoffs and they struggle and aren't nearly able to translate that success.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Dirk, Amare, Kobe. He’s absolutely nothing without those guys. Again, he rode the bench his first 4 seasons.

Nash couldn’t do anything without guys like Amare, Kobe or Dirk

He was incapable

He's nothing without Dirk?
- He leaves Dirk and is the PG of the greatest offense of all time ever.

He's nothing without Amare?
- Amare gets microfracture, Suns don't skip a beat, best offense in basketball, another top 5 GOAT offense season


Nash was the system, he was the primary playmaker, and the #1 option.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

The fundamental problem for the Nash deniers;
It's all just a massive coincidence that all these insane offenses, that were so much better than the league average.

With multiple rosters, multiple coaches, over a 10 year span.


all just happen to have Nash as the PG.

it's all just a big coincidence.