The Point Forward, Combo Guard and Basketballs other sub positions

[solarius49]

Ok so alot has been made of players who are combo guards, and it is often used in a negative context, but I have to disagree.  When I think of a combo guard, I think of a guy with the size and mindset to play the 2, but with good enough court vision and passing ability to play the one.  I dont think its a slight at all to guys like Westbrook, Wall ect to call them combo guards, and often the players with that label are exceptionally talented...thoughts?
The point forward is another subposition, guys like Hedo, Odom in his prime with Miami and the Clips, Lebron, even Magic could be considered one.  Another position where a guy has exceptional court vision and passing ability, and a good enough handle to bring the ball down the court and create defensive mismatches.  Any other guys you can think of? thoughts?

 

[dior paint]

There is nothing about John Wall that suggests combo guard.

 

[solarius49]

See once again, people taking it as a negative connotation, he has atleast the scoring ability of a starting shooting guard, in ADDITION to his exceptional pg abilities, giving him a good combination of both abilities

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by solarius49

See once again, people taking it as a negative connotation, he has atleast the scoring ability of a starting shooting guard, in ADDITION to his exceptional pg abilities, giving him a good combination of both abilities

You could say the same thing about Chris Paul.  Paul (if he wanted) could EASILY average over 22ppg.  Do you consider him a combo-guard?  No.  Wall is in no way, shape, or form a combo-guard.  He's a pass-first PG, and that's it. 

 

[MIKE LOWERY]

He's not a combo guard tho


Combo Guard got its name because of undersized 2's who lack pg skills. You can't change the meaning on the fly bro.

 

[solarius49]

Fair enough, i just dont get why combo guard is used as a bad thing?

 

[dior paint]

I didn't take it as a "negative connotation" at all.

The kid has been a point guard since AAU. He clearly looks to the distribute the basketball first.

Westbrook literally started playing the position when he got to the league.

This goes back to the thread I made last month...some dudes get the "combo guard" label placed on them due to their physical attributes.

How can he be a combo guard when he's never played the 2nd part of that "combo"?

 

[solarius49]

^^^I feel what you're saying, so a combo guard would be guys like Stuckey, Westbrook. How do you guys feel about point forwards? I remember watching Odoms short stint with Miami when he was VERY good, and he was the #1 option on that team, and his play as the point forward added such an interesting dynamic to that offense

 

[pmatic]

Can't forget about the all important "Stretch 4" position.

 

[frink85]

stretch 4? antoine walker, peja, etc...PFs who can shoot the 3?

 

[solarius49]

Originally Posted by PMatic

Can't forget about the all important "Stretch 4" position.

another increasingly important one
Andersen

Love

Nowitski

Aldridge (?)

Bargnani

Blatche (even though hes a ridiculous human being)

Odom (in his latter years)

 

[dior paint]

When I think of combo guards I think of guys that actually slide between the two positions - Stuckey, Billups (moreso his earlier days before he learned to run a team), AI, Reke (this guy actually doesn't have a position forreal), etc.

A legit point forward is rare sight these days. Turk + Odom only do it in spurts these days. Technically you can classify Lebron as one but he literally is capable of doing EVERYTHING.

I think Kyle Anderson is the next legit point forward we'll see in the NBA. Royce White also.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

The classic Point Forwards

 

[tsamshox]

aka Tyreke Evans aka Mr ambiguous

 

[dior paint]

I really wonder what Tyreke's career is going to amount to.

He's LITERALLY just a "basketball player".

He's not heady enough to run the point effectively on a consistent basis.

He can't shoot well enough to play the 2 full time.

Right now he's playing the 3 and obviously that can't be long term because he's only 6'5.

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

Lol Reke not having a position. Accurate

 

[lubu1]

Tracy MCgrady

 

[cafinest23]

Tweener Guard aka AI, Ben Gordon, Monta Ellis, Dajuan Wagner, Brandon Jennings (now, son doesn't look to set up his teammates for %#+)John Wall? Combo guard? Lol son can't shoot to save his life.

 

[chonky monk]

This is how I think people view these types of hybrid positions:

Combo Guard = 6'1-6'4 scorer with not enough passing skills/courtvision
Point Forward = 6-7-6-11 guy with legit handles and passing who can run the offense
Stretch 4 = 6-8 - 7-0 shooter who is usually soft inside.

By the looks of this, Combo guard and Stretch 4 seem to have negative connotations. But some of these new generation guys like Kevin Love, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook seem to really be breaking down these assumptions that have been made towards players like this.
Of Course theres always gunna be Rodney Stuckey, Randy Foye, Ryan Anderson, Andrea Bargnani type players who fit these roles due to their shortcomings in their skillset. But as we see more and more players come into the league with these crazy new and unique skillsets like Rondo and Anthony Davis I think peoples attitude towards 'Combo Guards', 'Stretch 4's' and 'Tweeners' will eventually change

 

[pmatic]

There's also the "Defensive stopper who can hit the spot up three" role popularized by Bruce Bowen, James Posey, Shane Battier, Thabo Sefolosha, Arron Afflalo, Deshawn Stevenson in recent years. 

 

[solarius49]

Originally Posted by PMatic

There's also the "Defensive stopper who can hit the spot up three" role popularized by Bruce Bowen, James Posey, Shane Battier, Thabo Sefolosha, Arron Afflalo, Deshawn Stevenson in recent years. 

good point and 9/10 this player is a shooting guard/small forward

 

[DCAllAfrican]

What do we call these hybrid 3/4's like Beasley, Thad Young, Josh Smith. All left handed at that.

Originally Posted by PMatic

There's also the "Defensive stopper who can hit the spot up three" role popularized by Bruce Bowen, James Posey, Shane Battier, Thabo Sefolosha, Arron Afflalo, Deshawn Stevenson in recent years. 

Yea those are funny. Ime Udoka, Pietrus, Anthony Parker also fall into that group.

 

[solarius49]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

What do we call these hybrid 3/4's like Beasley, Thad Young, Josh Smith. All left handed at that.

Well i dont think Beasley fits in with those other 2 guys.  Thad Young and Smith are sort of jack-of-all-trades types of players.  Beasely is interesting in that he is a 3/4 who is really a pure scorer, which is unusual at that position

 

[big j 33]

Originally Posted by PMatic

There's also the "Defensive stopper who can hit the spot up three" role popularized by Bruce Bowen, James Posey, Shane Battier, Thabo Sefolosha, Arron Afflalo, Deshawn Stevenson in recent years. 

I love/hate those guys.
I've always been a big fan of the point forward. I wish Gallinari got to play more of that for the Knicks, especially while they sucked and were losing games anyway.

 

[hankmoody]

http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Alagappan-Muthu-EOSMarch2012PPT.pdf

A worthy critique of this attempt: http://theclassical.org/articles/about-that-map-of-positions