**THEEE Official Washington ******** Offseason Thread** Throwbacks unveiled pg. 21...DreC. approves

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

My guess the DC is gonna go:

1. Torian
2. Hightower
3. Helu
4. Royster (PS)
5. Williams (cut)
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Shanny has Keiland working at fullback this year. Hopefully the RB situatuin looks like this:

Torain
Helu
Hightower

With Young and Williams as the FB's. Mike Sellars needs to be cut.

  
 
Here's a really good read from a poster on ExtremeSkins regarding the job Bruce and Shanny have done so far...
I feel like we are so hard on this regime. Its their second year.

The first year there was no salary cap and practically no free agency as a result. In year one, they established who was boss. Shanny is. Period. Doesn't matter if your the richest defensive playeri n NFL history or you are a living legend traded for high picks to a division rival. You WILL conform to this system or you WILL NOT play for this team. Period. We saw him literally discover Anthony Armstrong, Brandon Banks, Ryan Torrain and Kory Lichtensteiger. How many of us if we are truly honest were thinking "Trent Williams, please draft Trent Williams!" Oh and shhhhhhh, Perry Riley is going to be our starting inside linebacker this year and he's like 24 years old. Gone Smoot, hello Philip Buchanon. You don't think that was smart? Really? Where the hell is Smoot right now? Laron Landry is now a true beast, just with the change in the system. And let's not forget, other than him and Orakpo, nobody else on the roster in the year there was no free agency were fits for the new system. So our defense looked like crap. Shame on anyone for being surprised. Oh, we split with Dallas and Philly last year by the way. Did I mention that in the uncapped year, they restructured, released and otherwise straightened out there cap situation in such a way that in this one year we went from being pressed firmly against the cap for a decade while paying multiple millions of dollars in guaranteed money to players that aren't even on the team anymoreall the way to being one of the teams with the BEST cap situations in the league. We may not want to stand up and cheer a bunch of accountants in suits, but what they did in year one of the regime was absolutely brilliant. Which leads to. . .

This year! This year they had a multiple month long lock-out. We got rid of Clinton Portis. You thinking that was a bad idea? That guy was done here. Done. Notice who else is gone? Rabach, Rogers, Phil Daniels, Mike Williams, Dockery, Andre Carter, Holliday. We were old and tired. Period. How bout now? We turned like 4 draft picks into 12 and took strong character guys at positions of need. Helu was a great get. Torraine is legit albeit injury prone. But that's ok we have Hightower. Royster and Keiland Williams all fighting it out. Anyone pining for Cartwright, Betts, and Portis? Our OLDEST running back is 25 years old. Helu is lighting fast. Hightower is a player. . . did I mention he's 25? All of a sudden though, mike Shannahan doesn't know running backs? Oh, that's right. The O-line still sucks right? How quickly we have forgotten. Stephon Heyer on one side, Levi Jones on the other. That wasn't 12 years ago. That was 2 years ago. I'll take 20-something Will Montgomery who was grown right here on our team to Rabach 7 days a week. Big Mike Williams v. Chester? Your kidding right? Chester would have been our best o-lineman last year due to Trent being a rookie. He's 27 years old!! Athletic, Strong and a football player! Kory Lichtensteiger. Yea I get it, the name isn't synanamous with anthony munez but you know who it also isn't? Dockery or Randy Thomas. He's young, strong, quick and athletic. Heyer/Jones v. Trent and Brown? Not even close!! See a pattern here? This O-line is different that the one he inherited. But what are the differences? They are faster, stronger, and younger. You can't even debate that.

They just are.

Have you just assumed that Leonard Hankerson will be Devin Thomas? Or maybe he is a Marko Mitchell? Not quite. He's 6 1'. He ran a 4.4 forty at the combine. He beat Michael Irvin's recieving TD record at the U. He also broke Andre Johnson's receiving totals record. He caught passes for more than 50 yards in 12 out of 13 games in 2009. Take a look: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOBsU...layer_embedded]http://www.youtube.com/wa...v=dOBsU...layer_embedded[/url]

The defense is young and aggressive and most importantly -system appropriate. I will bet Barry Cofield becomes a fan favorite. He's 27, is completely blue collar, and brings his lunch pail. He's a player and will be great addition to Bryant at nose. (Who by the way himself played pretty damn well at the end of last season). Bowens? Jury's out I suppose but Dallas would have started him this year without a doubt. He's also 27. Undoubtedly you would have felt better if we took Cullen Jenkins right? I get it. But isn't it just a name? It would have cost us more, he's 30, and he can't get through a season without major injury problems. Bowens? Young. Healthy. Have you completely dismissed the possibility that we have Cullen Jenkins at 27 years old in Bowens? If so, can I ask you why? Because we traded for Mcnabb? Because outside of that I can't understand what you could possibly think they have done wrong yet. Otherwise, you are blaming Spurrier? Zorn? Gibbs 2.0? Schottenheimer? Vinny? Is that fair to Bruce and Shanny? I think not.

I mentioned this already but Perry Riley is a starter now. Him turning into a starter is a big deal guys. It means we didn't whiff. Ok, he hasn't yet started but they think he should. Do you not notice how we aren't signing an inside linebacker right now? Have you concluded its because Perry Riley CAN'T be a stud? He ran a 4.68 40 as a MIDDLE LINEBACKER. He is a beautiful form tackler who is rarely ever out of position. He was an absolute Stud in the SEC amazzing 97 solo tackles in his senior year. He is highly intelligent with fantastic physical abilities. He can be a real stud. Shanny and Haslette obviously think so.

Josh Wilson, younger, faster ball hawk who played in an all world defense that happens to be the same system we use now. Compared to Carlos Rogers who is still diluted by being a ******* throughout the 2000's. I liked Rogers' game, but we just got younger and I don't think we dropped off a bit in talent. We also got a bit more attitude with this youth and Wilson will catch the damn ball.

I wondered the other day weather the media drueling over the eagles signing Namdi would have gotten as much play if we signed Atogwe the same day as opposed to March. Seriously, would Atogwe not have been the NEXT ballhawker free agent under Namdi? I mean Joseph in Cincinatti got some serious play in the media. Think if we locked Atogwe down the day after Namdi went to the eagles, the story wouldn't have looked a lot more like "NFC east loaded in the secondary"? But because we got him in March we act like we didn't get him! That is a MAJOR signing guys. It is our SPLASH. Otogwe IS our splash. We just did it months ago. He's a beast. If you fear I am overstating it, remember he was the Rams MVP in 2008 and they franchised him in 2009. Do you know alot of franchise tags on crappy players? He was the rams best player. He's only 30. He replaces the hodgepodge of Reed Doughty, Kareeme Moore and whoever else they can find to play FS since Sean died. He's the first legitimate FS we have had since Sean's death.
We have bookend pash rushers now! Kerrigan might be the next Clay Mathews. Maybe he won't be. But the ASSUMPTION that he won't be is disturbing and reaks of something sad on this board. Is our collective spirit broken guys? Because it looks like it is. Otherwise, I can't explain the bashing of these moves or of this regime in general.


I couldn't leave without mentioning Beck and Grossman. How bad are they? Rex is as good as he was last year at least right? He's smarter and more savvy then he was when he took the Bears to a super bowl right? (You didn't forget that Rex captained a team to the Superbowl did you?) Before you start blasting me about "so did Dilfer" and "he was just a manager" - ok. But he is a "manager" who managed a team to the Superbowl right? Ok, so he isn't a bad high school player like I keep seeing in here. He is a professional. He is a good character guy who can probably teach this whole offense to anybody at this point. He obviously knew it better than Mcnabb last year and the result was he gave us a better chance to win then Mcnabb did despite the disparity in talent. Worst case scenario, Rex will be a mediocre Qb on a vastly improved and improving young team who might be picking a franchise QB next year. Take a look - if that happens, we actually WILL be what we have ACTED like for the past decade - namely - a team that is a player or two from a deep playoff run. For competing in the post-season for real! . . THAT'S THE WORST CASE. I know I will get drilled, but the BEST case is that Mike Shannahan has a real QB in Beck. One who is smart, dying for his chance, young enough to capitalize on it, but old enough to realize its his last chance. He will give everything he has for us this year. I am sure of that. He wasn't a total bum in college guys. He was the second best QB in that draft. He got into some bad situations with the Dolphins and Ravens but this is it for him and he knows it. We talk about his weak arm because some twitter posts say he threw poorly in his third training camp practice as the starter in his life! He threw a legendary 70 yard pass at BYU. He broke Steve Young's passing records. He is a good character guy. Smart, quick, a gym rat with good decision making and anticipation. Other than the fact that Miami fell apart before he got his chance, and Baltimore was solidified with Flacco, why the hell does everyone hate this kid? Shanny thinks something of him and quite frankly, at the QB position, like the RB position, he just hasn't made enough mistakes in his career for me to ASSUME he doesn't know that John Beck is utterly incompetent. No. I ain't buying that. The kid can play. Will he? I hope so. I think so. But no, I don't know so.

Either do you.

We are looking at a patient who has been battling systemic organizational cancer for over a decade. Now its up and walking around gingerly. Its skin color and hair is returning from the harsh treatment. Strength is returning. We are eating again. No, we shouldn't be discharged home yet. There's still some treatment left. But if I am a family member (or in this case a fan) I am definately feeling better about the prognosis and that is something we should all be excited about.

Cliffs:
Maybe we won't suck.
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Not looking good for Brandon Banks

about 1:30 in....

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I want to believe most of that qoute, flightman, at the sametime ES has/is notorious for putting a positive slant on things that were obviously crap in the past.
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...as for BB, damn shame if he's going around acting like he's a superstar but DAMNED if they release him for he can turn around, go to a divison rival and give us hell down the road
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but coach shanahan would do it since it's his way or the highway :/
 
I don't like the Hightower move just because I was really looking forward to what Helu could do. I had a feeling that he could be a great back in Shanny's system. Maybe he'll still get his shot, who knows.
I'm really hoping for Andrew Luck though 
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From everything that I've been reading, Jarvis Jenkins has been DESTROYING everyone out there....
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To all you Skins fans out there grab the Express today and turn to page 11 when you get a chance. 

I'm really hoping for Andrew Luck though
I sure hope not, if anybody deserves Luck it's us.
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Yea I wanna see Helu get a shot too. I got a feeling he can be a big playmaker. If he performs well in the preseason he should get his shot.



I am excited to see what atogwe brings to the table. Anything is better than Reed tho.
 
I know dude who stabbed Banks. Banks popped off, jumped my mans, then got his lil !*% poked up.

Banks was at times electric last year but he's easily replaceable.
 
This "no fans came to watch them practice" thing is no surprise.

There is nothing to be excited about this year for us.  No big FA signing like usual.  No high expectations, like us loyal fans have every year.  We all know John Beck is not the answer.  Our WR core is old and little.  Our running back had one good year...will prob struggle this year...sophomore slump more tape on him to watch.  Athough i have faith in mike shanahan's scheme and i think Torrain will be fine.  Over 1k yrds.  I really like Tim Hightower and think he will help us out.

Not to mention our Defense was in the bottom 5 in almost all important categories last year....so add that with our offensive problems....and our impossible division....im saying 5 wins all year.
 
Folks over in the DMV Section don't seem to know what the hell they want...one hand they want to kinda rebuild but want us to pick up bums hoping they are the difference in doing something this season. Season is a lost cause barring a miracle. (ie, Beck actually being good.) Just want to see the young guys perform and the defense start to gel for this season. *Shrug*

PS : Beck changed his number to #12. Kelly to #14 and Shayne Graham has #5. I don't expect Graham to beat out Gano though.
 
I'm 100% fine w. the rebuilding effort that's going on....this was an OLD team for the past couple of seasons and didn't get the results that Snyder & Co. hoped. This is the first time that I can remember that there is an actual youth movement on the roster. This is a GOOD thing! Let the young guys develop and take their lumps this season. Use teams like the 2009 Bucs as a blueprint as far as how to build the roster while trending upwards. 7 wins is overly optimistic....4-5 wins is most likely going to be the reality. The latter will get us in a great spot to land Luck/Barkley/Jones. Get your franchise QB in 2012 and keep adding pieces. One day it will all pay off.
 
For me its just has a different feel than the last few years. Like it or not we are rebuilding. We are trying to get younger that's a good sign.



Hopefully some of these players workout.



My thing is we went 6-10 last year and I can name atleast 3 games that we should have won. Things go right we 9-7 Mcnabb played horrible last season. Yea the line was bad. But at times his feet was set missing open WRs throwing at their feet and #%%!.


I don't know what's going to happen but I'm not gonna kill it before the first preseason game.
 
Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Get your franchise QB in 2012 and keep adding pieces. One day it will all pay off.
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That's pretty much the 49ers mentality right now.  Some how some way I just hope we get Andrew Luck, that would be such an ideal fit.  Switching gears though back to the article in the Express I'm really surprised to see the lack of fan support this year.  I was talking to my boy who is a long time Skins fans that got rid of his season tickets 2 years ago because he didn't want to support Synder anymore.  I was just chopping it up to him about the low fan turnout at Skins camp and he's all for it as well.  Like I said earlier, when I went to Fed Ex last week to see the Manchester and Barcelona game I couldn't believe that they took 10,000 seats out of Fed Ex., granted they were all noose-bleed seats but the stadium just looked different and strange with that gap in the upper bowl.  All these years all the media and Skins organization have told us about this long season-ticket wait list and now it appears that list is completely gone with fans not wanting to purchase tickets.
  
 
Originally Posted by Deuce King

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Get your franchise QB in 2012 and keep adding pieces. One day it will all pay off.
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That's pretty much the 49ers mentality right now.  Some how some way I just hope we get Andrew Luck, that would be such an ideal fit.  Switching gears though back to the article in the Express I'm really surprised to see the lack of fan support this year.  I was talking to my boy who is a long time Skins fans that got rid of his season tickets 2 years ago because he didn't want to support Synder anymore.  I was just chopping it up to him about the low fan turnout at Skins camp and he's all for it as well.  Like I said earlier, when I went to Fed Ex last week to see the Manchester and Barcelona game I couldn't believe that they took 10,000 seats out of Fed Ex., granted they were all noose-bleed seats but the stadium just looked different and strange with that gap in the upper bowl.  All these years all the media and Skins organization have told us about this long season-ticket wait list and now it appears that list is completely gone with fans not wanting to purchase tickets.
  
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Every year when training camp starts, it's a damn circus.  There is ALWAYS some huge FA signing and thus it begins...the usual cycle of playoff-talk, only to be let down by the reality of how poorly constructed the actual team is.  This is the first year in a long time I can remember that the Skins aren't the offseason "champs."  This is a good thing.  For as poorly as Shanahan has handled guys like McNabb/Haynesworth, I can't say I'm too disappointed in how they accumulated draft picks (not trading away) and had some quality low-key FA signings.  Those FA signings, aren't the big-splash like we've seen in years past, but rather guys who can be solid contributors and not create any unnecessary drama because of a bloated contract or something else. 

I'm totally fine w. this team winning around 4-5 games.  That's what I honestly think is the ceiling for the 2011-12 Skins team.  Anything more than that would be a bonus.  All I want is more youth on the roster and depth.  That seems to be the direction the team is headed in.  It's been long overdue, but the previous method of trying to BUY championships just wasn't working.  This is the way to build a team.  There are going to be PLENTY of bumps in the road, but as long as this team plays hard and shows somewhat of a pulse, I think most Skins fans would be fine with whatever the record. 

The sparse crowds are a sign of a couple of things IMO.  1)  Folks are tired of Snyder and how he has come close to ruining a once proud franchise.  2)  No big FA acquisitions or players brought in via trade.  Like the Junkies said today, if the team went out and signed Nnamdi, Ochocinco, or traded for Palmer...the crowds would be there.  I have to agree.  No one is going to sit out in 95+ degree heat to watch Anthony Armstrong drop balls or John Beck throw ducks.  It's not happening. 

The only thing that Snyder and Co. can do to get folks back out in Ashburn is to put a winning product on the field.  Like I said, it will come in due time.  I think most Skins fans can agree that they do like the direction of the team.  Yea, they're at the bottom and the only way to go is up....but it's a different vibe/feeling because of how the team is starting to be constructed. 

2012 is gonna be huge.  I think we're gonna roll w. Beck/Grossman for this year and end up w. a top-10 pick.  That pick (I'd almost guarantee) will be spent on a QB.  Luck, Barkley, Jones, etc....whoever Shanahan feels will be the franchise QB for the next decade WILL be selected next year barring a miracle season from Beck (which I think none of us believe is happening
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  He ain't Kurt Warner). 

*As far as your 49ers...wow, I don't know what the $%!$ yall are doing out there
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  If there's a team that would tank to land the #1 and get Luck, it would be SF
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  Yall know Harbaugh would itch at the opportunity to coach him up again.  Off subject, what's Patrick Willis' contract looking like?  Do you fear losing him at some point?  This man is arguably the best defensive force in the NFL and you gotta think that if things don't change for the better there's a good chance he'll bolt....
 
For as poorly as Shanahan has handled guys like McNabb/Haynesworth, I can't say I'm too disappointed in how they accumulated draft picks (not trading away) and had some quality low-key FA signings
Personally, I think no FA really wanted to come to DC given the way McNabb and Haynesworth were treated by Shanahan last year (be it right or wrong).  I think the Skins had no choice but to go the draft pick route this year at least.  Meaning, if you were a free agent this year with the way Shanahan was so critical of McNabb and Haynesworth and seeing how neither of those guys are really known as character issues on and off the field you would have to second guess the way they were treated by the coach during the season.  It's like somebody signing up to work for a company that is known to have a bad boss running it or from the perception that is seen on the outside by new potential employees, why would you want to put yourself in that position.

 No one is going to sit out in 95+ degree heat to watch Anthony Armstrong drop balls or John Beck throw ducks.  It's not happening. 



That's an excellent point champ.  There are really no BIG names to draw the crowds out there to go and see.


Off subject, what's Patrick Willis' contract looking like?  Do you fear losing him at some point? 



I'm not sure what his contract is looking like, meaning how many years we still have him on contract but I'll look it up.  I'm not worried about losing him at all this season or next season unless we don't land a high draft pick in order to get Luck or Barkley.  However, for the long-run of the organization I can see the 49ers using him as bait to trade up to get that draft pick they want to get Luck or Barkley.  Although I would NEVER want to see Willis play elsewhere or go elsewhere I can see how the front office would want to do anything to get us in a better position to win more games in the future and turn this franchise back around and that starts with having a good QB. 

The only way I see Willis leaving or asking to leave is if we stink it up for the next 2 years, so meaning on year 3 he would probably want to leave, and I can't see that I would blame him.


Edit--DoubleJ's, Patrick Willis contract is 5 years for 50 million which was signed in 2010.  So after 3 years, which is the same timeframe that I guessed at earlier I'm sure both sides will review things that the 49ers have or haven't done at the point and go from there.


Umm...



In my statement I said "neither guys are REALLY known" meaning on a consistent basis or having more than just 1 occurence.  I'm not saying both those guys are angels, but if all you or the public got on Albert is a video clip of him kicking somebody on the ground it's going to have to be a little bit more than that champ for people to actually say Albert has character issues, prior to his stint with the Skins of course
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.  One mishap doesn't determine a person's career or character depending on the situation.
  
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Originally Posted by Deuce King

For as poorly as Shanahan has handled guys like McNabb/Haynesworth, I can't say I'm too disappointed in how they accumulated draft picks (not trading away) and had some quality low-key FA signings
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Personally, I think no FA really wanted to come to DC given the way McNabb and Haynesworth were treated by Shanahan last year (be it right or wrong).  I think the Skins had no choice but to go the draft pick route this year at least.  Meaning, if you were a free agent this year with the way Shanahan was so critical of McNabb and Haynesworth and seeing how neither of those guys are really known as character issues on and off the field you would have to second guess the way they were treated by the coach during the season.  It's like somebody signing up to work for a company that is known to have a bad boss running it or from the perception that is seen on the outside by new potential employees, why would you want to put yourself in that position.





You might be right on that...at least for this year.  In years past, folks would put money ahead of their own happiness.  This is why Washington would routinely land big-time FAs, only to have them sour on the organization in one way or another.

Dudes in the NFL (if they consider coming to DC) have to see that the entire culture of the organization has changed before they sign here.  If they see guys like Bowen and Cofield get good money, but also see that 1) they're happy 2) team is headed in the right direction, future FAs might not be so reluctant to sign a contract to play for the Skins. 

FWIW, Haynesworth had some major red-flags (off the field) before he came to DC...McNabb, not so much....
 
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