THREAD CLOSED

[HNL HI]

 

[Johnny_Cakes]

When Damon Bruce asked Jack about the offense's inconsistency this year:
“Well that’s your interpretation. I understand that can be out there to be thought of that way. I think the reality of statistical evidence would be otherwise.”

...............................................

 

[ThePeoplesChamp_]

What has Bruce Irvin done since joining the Raiders?

 

[HNL HI]

When Damon Bruce asked Jack about the offense's inconsistency this year:
“Well that’s your interpretation. I understand that can be out there to be thought of that way. I think the reality of statistical evidence would be otherwise.”

...............................................

dude been giving reporters the run around since he been here, was hilarious to hear how tight he got when the questions got too hard to side step.

 

[HNL HI]

Johnny_Cakes can you post this article?

https://theathletic.com/160346/2017...rs-scapegoat-list-leading-off-with-the-owner/

 

[Johnny_Cakes]

Johnny_Cakes can you post this article?

https://theathletic.com/160346/2017...rs-scapegoat-list-leading-off-with-the-owner/

Kawakami: My first-ever Raiders Scapegoat List, leading off with the owner

By Tim Kawakami Nov 20, 2017
To Al Davis' great and everlasting credit, there really was no reason to do an item like this for the Raiders while he ran the franchise — and in the few years after his passing.

Why? Because we didn't need to pick out and list Raiders scapegoats in the Al Davis era. Every decision was made by him, every scheme and play call was run through him and everything about this team was defined by him. The Raiders won three Super Bowls that way, then that run stopped, and it was always all focused on and directed by one man.

Al loved his players, he viewed his coaches with a mixture of fondness (for the really good ones), skepticism (for all of them) and contempt (for the ones who failed him), and that kind of all-consuming vision really didn't set up for individual blame.

It was all Al, and even when he picked out a figure or two to assign blame, it was half-hearted, because Al didn't lie to himself — he knew all successes and all failures stemmed from his office.

His presence superseded all petty deflections. There aren't many people in the entirety of sports who were ever as big as he was.

Then, after his death in 2011, Al's shadow fell over the entire franchise, which mourned him deeply and simultaneously passed control over to his son Mark, who had to deal with the loss of his father and the complications that had been left by his father's final years.

That wasn't a time for scapegoating, it was just Davis and Reggie McKenzie deconstructing and then reconstructing an entire football operation, to put it in Davis' famous words to me back then.

But enough time has passed, the roster has been built up, several coaching staffs have been switched in and out, and the Raiders, now at 4-6 after the roasting by the Patriots on Sunday in Mexico City, have moved into a place where some varying levels of blame and celebration can be assigned, the way I've done it for years with my 49ers Scapegoat Lists.

Important point: Up until my last 49ers Updated Scapegoat List, I'd done those lists strictly from the viewpoint of the Yorks' assignment of blame; then the last one I did it generally, from all viewpoints. This Raiders Scapegoat List will also take the general view.

It's not specifically a list of people Davis can or does blame, not just itemizing the scapegoats currently being lined up by Raiders fans, and not only me listing individual faults by individual people. It's a combination of those things, and reflects the recent history of this team and where the indictments and repudiations should, are, and will be directed.

By the way, I'm not suggesting that the Raiders are wholly out of the playoff race right now. They aren't. Look at the mediocrity throughout the AFC. It looks like 9-7 could theoretically win the AFC West, and to do that the Raiders would obviously need a big rally (5-1 finish), but that's not impossible.

It's just not probable. And if the Raiders manage it, they don't seem like a team that could do much in the playoffs. Which is not how this season was supposed to turn out, in any possible imagining. And the point of this list is to try to figure out why this is true and who should get blamed for it.

The First Raiders Scapegoat List, November 2017
1. Mark Davis. This is not about blaming the owner for everything. Even though everything always flows from the top — you are who you're owned by — Davis specifically stays out of most or all football decisions, so whatever your gripes are about that third-down call or cornerback rotation, it's not on Davis.

He has hired Jack Del Rio and McKenzie to handle that stuff and has mainly avoided interfering in those decisions (for good or bad), possibly excluding the push to lure Marshawn Lynch out of retirement.

And you don't dismiss owners, as an owner I know recently pointed out.

Here's what is on Davis: After all he and McKenzie did to build this roster and football operation back to a competitive level, after that 12-4 run to end that unbelievable, unstable 13-season spell of missing the playoffs, the last thing the Raiders needed was a massive destabilization heading into this season.

Yet that's what happened when Davis announced the deal to move the team to Las Vegas in 2019, which is now slated to be 2020 — and all the side effects and lingering question marks that this produced.

I don't fault Davis for having to find a new stadium deal, somewhere, anywhere. I don't much fault him for walking away from the Oakland politicians and bureaucrats (though I have long argued that somebody with more money and connections could've figured out a way to do this in Oakland — I know a few very rich people who would've loved to have been given a chance).

And it's not like he's hoarding money. The Raiders currently have the highest-paid offense in football and also have to set aside bundles of cash for Khalil Mack's pending mega-extension. This isn't about being cheap; it's about messing up the timeline.

It feels like Davis partially sacrificed the good spirit and positive momentum of this team — things that had been so desperately rare since the departure of Jon Gruden in January 2002 — at an especially pivotal point in what had been this franchise's ascendancy.

Tangible evidence: Giving up Sunday's home game against New England and moving it to Mexico City as part of the NFL's “International Series” was something no strong and stable team would have ever done. Ever. But Davis had to agree to it, presumably, to get all those “yes” votes for the Las Vegas move.

And Del Rio, who is logically unhappy about all this, suggested a few weeks ago that the Raiders probably will do this several more times in the coming years. It's what weak teams do. It's not what a team with vision — hey, we're going to be good in 2017, let's not give up one of our biggest home games — would've ever contemplated.

Yet it happened. I'm not saying the Raiders would've won this game had it been Oakland, but you and I and Mark Davis know that the Raiders would've had a lot better shot at it there. And you know Al would've never let this happen, especially when his team was theoretically all lined up for a deep playoff run.

You pile up everything you can to help your team. Giving away a home game is the opposite.

Less tangibly, the Raiders went into 2017 rightfully feeling like everything was set up for a long run as a Super Bowl contender under Davis. But these things are never guaranteed. Nothing quite clicked right from the start.

Much of this can be assigned to McKenzie's personnel decisions (no linebackers? What happened in the last few drafts?) and Del Rio's management (dumping Bill Musgrave for Todd Downing?) and other factors.

But Davis is the man writing the checks and he decided that Del Rio was his guy after firing Dennis Allen in the middle of the 2014 season, and Davis was right about that, but then Davis also was the guy who gave Del Rio an extension before this season … and now that might have made Del Rio untouchable for a year or two.

And that might not be the best thing in the world for this franchise.

Teams like the 49ers and Giants have the money to swap out regimes here and there; but until Davis gets that Vegas money flowing into the Raiders' accounts, he almost certainly doesn't have the cash flow to eat the rest of Del Rio's deal and then go out and hire an expensive new staff.

So the Raiders now exist in limbo. Not good enough to challenge New England or the rest of the NFL power brokers. Not horrible enough to justify a massive rebuild. Not rich enough to change things up dramatically with the coaching staff.

Davis has his coach, and it's Del Rio. He has his GM, and it's McKenzie. He doesn't have the will or money to go chase a brand-name coach or GM … because then he'd have to fire everybody, pay them off, and pay the new guys, and what if the best new guys don't want to come here with all the Vegas uncertainty, anyway?

Davis has paid the money to get to this point, and paid Derek Carr, paid the offensive line, paid Del Rio with the extension. He had reason to expect more; he did not get it in 2017, though.

That's not all the owner's fault, but he's the one who bet big on McKenzie, Del Rio and everybody else, he's the one who shoved this team to the Las Vegas deal while the team still had years to play in Oakland, and he's the one who is at the top of this list.

Davis cares deeply about the results on the field. I can tell you that. He was the guy pushing Allen out and he was thrilled about the rise to 12-4 last season. And he is always very displeased when the team doesn't meet those standards.

He also contributed to the instability, wasn't willing to cut a lesser deal to stay in Oakland, allowed Jerry Jones to dictate much of the terms in Las Vegas (which I understand — it got the Raiders the deal) and set up this course, which is well down the path of screwing up the Raiders' best shot at a Super Bowl in 15 years.

You run the team, you have these responsibilities, and this isn't a clean-up from 2011 anymore and these decisions have all been approved by Davis. There is no way around that.

2. Offensive coordinator Todd Downing. This is almost certainly where the post-2017 firing line starts.

Todd Downing's promotion to offensive coordinator hasn't come close to working out so far. (Isaiah J. Downing/USA TODAY Sports)
It's pretty simple: Del Rio had Bill Musgrave as his OC the last two seasons, but moved him out to give Downing greater responsibility (in his debut as a coordinator), largely because of Downing's close relationship with Carr. Musgrave went to Denver and just today was named OC after the firing of Mike McCoy.

And the Raiders result: They have sputtered offensively all season under Downing, despite all that high-priced talent, and Carr in particular looks out of sync and just a little confused.

Musgrave wasn't a fan-favorite and there were some mystifying things about his play calls, too. But the Raiders offense almost always looked and felt dangerous when Musgrave was the OC — they seemed to have defenses backpedaling and perpetually worried, especially in the fourth quarter. And that just hasn't been the case with Downing calling the shots in 2017.

The stats: They're currently the 21st-ranked offense, averaging 326.5 yards per game, just one spot ahead of the 49ers (325.9) — and you think Kyle Shanahan wouldn't have killed to have Carr, Amari Cooper, Lynch, Michael Crabtree and that offensive line for the first half of this season?

Last year, under Musgrave, the Raiders had the sixth-ranked offense, averaging 373.3 yards per.

This year, the Raiders are averaging 236.8 passing yards and 89.7 rushing; last year it was 253.2 passing, 120.1 rushing.

This year, the Raiders are tied for 20th in points per game with Green Bay at 20.4; last year, they were seventh in scoring, at 26 points per.

Carr's QB rating last year: 96.7.

Carr's QB rating this year: 88.2. (While his completion percentage is almost exactly the same as last year, Carr's yards per attempt and TD percentage is down and his interception rate is way up.)

This isn't just about stats. It's about the overall sense of organization and direction. Are the Raiders maximizing their best offensive players? Are they manipulating and fooling defenses? Does Downing set something up in the first quarter and then attack the exposed area in the fourth?

I don't see any of that. It's there in the stats, too — illustrative of an overall offensive downturn precisely when the Raiders thought this thing was ready to take off, and the main difference between this and last year is the coordinator.

Unless there is some magic Raiders offensive explosion due to hit starting Sunday, I'll be shocked if Downing is the Raiders' OC in 2018.

3. Coach Jack Del Rio. He's not a scheme guy. He's not an offensive-minded guy. He's a “message coach,” and I don't say this to belittle or diminish him.

Jack Del Rio's contract probably will keep him from getting fired, but he should be under heavy scrutiny. (Tom Szczerbowski/Getty Images)
Messages are vitally important in the NFL, and to NFL locker rooms, and Del Rio's message and charisma definitely lifted this team up from the moment he arrived in 2015. It was necessary. He was the best the Raiders could've done back then and the 12-4 season was the reward for it.

I'm also not so sure that Davis and McKenzie could do better if they fired Del Rio. There will be superior candidates for coaching jobs in the 2018 hiring cycle, but it's a question of how appealing the Raiders would be if Davis is offering below-market-rate salaries and if McKenzie is still in place. Or if it'd take the firing of McKenzie, then Davis would have to pay out even more, and that seems incredibly unlikely.

Del Rio isn't going to get fired. But …

This is not the first time Del Rio's message buoyed a locker room then things sort of petered out when he couldn't get his coordinators right and the talent leveled off a little. (Check his Jacksonville run: 12-4 his third season, 11-5 his fifth season, but a stall from Year 6 to getting fired in Year 9 with zero trips to the AFC Championship Game and no division titles.)

At some point, I do believe talented teams rely on their top guy to figure out a way to beat other good teams — the way the Patriots obviously do with Bill Belichick and Seattle has done with Pete Carroll and the Saints with Sean Payton. Or the Raiders way back with Gruden.

This is not happening with Del Rio's staff and I don't see it happening into the future.

The comparison between Del Rio and Mark Jackson's Warriors tenure is often made, and I don't dispute the gist of it: Big personalities bounding into lost situations with confidence and empowering their best players to do big things.

But also: Perhaps hitting a wall, and doing some ill-advised and desperate things, when the competition reached the highest strategic levels.

Del Rio should be held responsible for this year's big dip. He should be scrutinized for switching from Musgrave to Downing, for the continued inability to put his defensive players in the right spot, and for the general lack of focus in some of their biggest games this season.

Still: The Jackson firing worked ONLY because the Warriors hired Steve Kerr. They were good with Jackson, they became great with Kerr.

The Raiders were good with Del Rio last season, and we shall see how this season turns out. They're certainly not terrible.

So who's the Steve Kerr for them in 2018? I don't see how that's happening, so Del Rio almost certainly will be coaching this team in 2018, and he'll be moving to the very top of this list unless things turn around relatively swiftly.

4. Defensive coordinator Ken Norton Jr. I've mainly passed on roasting Norton because defense is Del Rio's area and anything the Raiders do on that side of the ball is assuredly approved by Del Rio. And before this season Del Rio added John Pagano as assistant head coach/defense, which diluted Norton's responsibility even further.

Ken Norton Jr. may mostly operate under Jack Del Rio's direction, but the Raiders need more from their defensive coordinator. (Rob Foldy/Getty Images)
But the Raiders' defensive performance deserves plenty of blame and I guess if we're saying that Del Rio needs good coordinators then we can say that Norton has come up short, and the Raiders defense has come up short, his entire Raiders entire tenure.

How can two old linebackers — Del Rio and Norton — fail to come up with a single standout young linebacker in three seasons of coaching this group? Why does this defense get manipulated and then dominated by every smart offense it goes up against?

How can a defense go 10 straight games to start the season without an interception? Ought to be impossible — and had never happened before in NFL history, until the Raiders did it this season.

I thought it was telling that Carroll kept losing defensive coordinators to head-coaching jobs with Norton on staff, and Carroll never promoted Norton to DC. It took a move to the Raiders to get Norton the promotion, and we're seeing why Carroll always went with other guys.

Del Rio has remained loyal to Norton through some bad, bad defensive years. But I think the time has come for a change there, too.

5. General manager Reggie McKenzie. He gets credit for building up this roster after inheriting the worst combination of low talent + dead money in NFL history. He gets credit for 12-4 last year. He gets credit for calming everything down about this franchise, and that was not easy, and then he had to deal with all the Vegas stuff.

So, McKenzie will not and should not have his job on the line for what's happening now. McKenzie will not and should not have everything he did the last six years thrown away because it all didn't work out in 2017, and this is why he is so low on this list.

However, McKenzie hasn't been perfect, and it just so happens that his largest imperfections have come back to haunt this franchise specifically right now.

McKenzie drafted cornerbacks in the first round in 2013 (D.J. Hayden) and 2017 (Gareon Conley), and neither is helping the team right now — Hayden was a bust and is now playing for Detroit and Conley finally went to season-ending IR last week after playing just two games.

McKenzie for some reason has mainly avoided adding linebackers to a defense that has had a hole there for years.

McKenzie keeps drafting defensive linemen and that hasn't done much help lately, either.

To put it in perspective, McKenzie and Del Rio have a shared-power role, since Del Rio wasn't McKenzie's first pick as a coach (that was Dennis Allen) or his second pick (that was probably Tony Sparano after Allen was fired), and Davis went out and hired Del Rio on his own.

And remember, all these things are in sharp focus now because McKenzie's moves rebuilt the talent base, because he drafted Khalil Mack, Carr, Gabe Jackson and Amari Cooper, and signed Kelechi Osemele, Rodney Hudson, Donald Penn and Jared Cook and put the Raiders into position to presume another step forward.

He has made mistakes, too, as all GMs do, and if you're assigning blame for the 4-6 spin-out, this is where McKenzie belongs on that list. Not at the top, but not at the bottom, either.

6. Derek Carr. He has the second-highest average salary in the NFL and he currently has the 18th-best passer rating among qualifying quarterbacks and is 22nd in yards per attempt.

Derek Carr has not played like the MVP candidate he was in 2016. (Buda Mendes/Getty Images)
That is not a good combination.

Also, he's still only 26, and his career is still on track to make him one of the greatest QBs in Raiders history.

Which means: Until and unless they can put together a championship-level defense, the Raiders will rise and fall with Carr — last year they rose and then broke apart when he broke his leg, and this year they're mostly falling.

What can they do about it? They're pot-committed to Carr into the Las Vegas future, and they should be. He's the face of the franchise, their leader, and their hope for Super Bowl trips. But he also needs more help than he has received this season, particularly from the coaching staff. If the Raiders get Carr a great OC and Carr still can't do it, then that's all the Raiders can do.

If there's one large inherent responsibility for this era of the Raiders, it's this: They've got Carr and Mack in their primes, and it's up to everybody around them to make sure they maximize these years to the fullest extent.

The Raiders are already in the process of blowing one of those prime years.

7. Left tackle Donald Penn. He did the calculations — at his age (34), at this point in the Raiders' development (coming off of 12-4, dreaming of a Super Bowl run), and at his less-than-market-rate salary at such a key position, Penn might never have had another chance at additional guaranteed money.

Donald Penn earned himself some more guaranteed dollars with his holdout, but was it worth it? (Tom Szczerbowski/Getty Images)
It's a brutal game. Left tackles are valuable for as long as they can reliably protect the QB, but once it starts slipping, it can go fast. And Penn was right there on the cusp, so he held out of training camp, and eventually got a contract adjustment that bumped his guarantees up next season.

The result? Penn, either because he's a year older or mainly due to his missed practice time, hasn't quite been as reliable this season, and that seems to have sent a ripple through the Raiders' entire offensive line.

Does Carr look as comfortable in the pocket as he did last year? No, he does not. This is not just Penn's fault, but you can look at his holdout as one key piece to some of this unraveling.

And now Penn doesn't seem as valuable as he did a few months ago. But that's why this was smart of Penn. In the NFL, you have to try to get as much as you can when you can. It's just that this time Penn's holdout might've had a few more effects than either side expected.

8. Amari Cooper. Here's a killer stat:

Last year, Cooper was targeted 132 times and had 83 receptions — a 62.9 percent rate.

Amari Cooper is catching less than half the passes that comes his way. (Tom Szczerbowski/Getty Images)
This year, Cooper has been targeted 84 times and has only 41 receptions — a dismal 48.8 percent rate. That means more than half the time the Raiders have thrown a pass to him, they've gained nothing for it and lost a down.

Just as a comparison, teammate Michael Crabtree was at 61.3 percent last season and is at 63.6 percent this season.

Pittsburgh's Antonio Brown had a 68.8 percent catch-per-target rate last year and is at 61.4 percent this season. Seattle's Doug Baldwin was at 75.2 percent last year and this year is at 68.3 percent.

A 48.8 percent catch-rate is pretty bad for any starting receiver. For Cooper, a Pro Bowler last year and somebody who presumably was ready to take a step into dominance this season … it's horrendous, and a measure of something gone terribly, terribly wrong for him.

 

[bathing chuck]

Downing and JACK ME OFF are next. Irvin is unhappy he can go too. Dude's been trash in the Raider uniform. Bring in a new staff to let these guys flourish..

 

[raider5]

Heard Papa on 957 talk about the Pats game earlier. Said coaches knew going no huddle would work against the Raiders because it's so obvious they're not properly coached that they knew the defense wouldn't be able to adjust and get a play in on time.

Also said Brady acknowledged the talent on the team but knew they are never in proper position (paraphrasing of course but you get the idea)

 

[raider5]

When Damon Bruce asked Jack about the offense's inconsistency this year:
“Well that’s your interpretation. I understand that can be out there to be thought of that way. I think the reality of statistical evidence would be otherwise.”

...............................................

This is when Jack knew he ****** up. Damon started talkin about how we're in the 20's of offensive ranking and scoring

Hella funny. Hella sad. Not sure how I feel about it tbh

 

[HNL HI]

thanks bro, lots of good gems in there

So the Raiders now exist in limbo. Not good enough to challenge New England or the rest of the NFL power brokers. Not horrible enough to justify a massive rebuild. Not rich enough to change things up dramatically with the coaching staff.

 

[ThePeoplesChamp_]

 

[albooboo]

I hope we lose the rest of our games. It makes it easier to get rid of Joke del Rio and the rest of his coaching staff.

 

[albooboo]

We should put a waive claim for Jalen Collins.

 

[Deleted member 185039]

Bruce Irvin been leaking all year lol

 

[ThePeoplesChamp_]

I hope we lose the rest of our games. It makes it easier to get rid of Joke del Rio and the rest of his coaching staff.

He’s not getting fired regardless. Mark can’t pay another coach and they are still have to pay for their move to Las Vegas. Raiders gonna be irrelevant in LV before they even build the stadium

 

[ThePeoplesChamp_]

Bruce Irvin been leaking all year lol

he’s also been leaking in coverage as well. Dude is buns

 

[raider5]

 

[raider5]

 

[northoaklandfc]

**** that BAN.

Ply your trade like the paid professional that you are.

 

[sickr8r]

Mack didn’t practice as well he n Irvin left same time from field.
A lot of former players speaking out on Del Rio now.
Stupid extension going to buy him another year.

 

[njavier03]

How can they ride with Ken when they were ***?

 

[northoaklandfc]

Disappointed Mack left too.

Grown adults aren't entitled to emotional space in the workplace over something as routine as changeover.

Especially not when you're under performing.

 

[raider5]

 

[Deleted member 185039]

Disappointed Mack left too.

Grown adults aren't entitled to emotional space in the workplace over something as routine as changeover.

Especially not when you're under performing.

How so? Perhaps there is more going on than we really know or understand between coaching and players and staff and they didn't like how things were handled this far in the season. I mean I wasn't surprised to hear news on the way home but you have to think if players are declining interviews and Bruce has been upset beyond the field and on Twitter there is obviously some dysfunction. Add social media in the mix and everyone has their thoughts on what's really happening.

Del Rio came off tight and very sure of himself the other day in the interview and i think people are just over the sugar coating and results of what's really happening as far as the Raiders are concerned.

Yes the players will have to pull themselves up and move on. It is a business. I just don't understand the choice to go away from the run and force the passing game. It just didn't make any sense to me.

 

[northoaklandfc]

How so? Perhaps there is more going on than we really know or understand between coaching and players and staff and they didn't like how things were handled this far in the season. I mean I wasn't surprised to hear news on the way home but you have to think if players are declining interviews and Bruce has been upset beyond the field and on Twitter there is obviously some dysfunction. Add social media in the mix and everyone has their thoughts on what's really happening.

Del Rio came off tight and very sure of himself the other day in the interview and i think people are just over the sugar coating and results of what's really happening as far as the Raiders are concerned.

KNJ was beloved by all and is being **** on as the scape goat, JDR is not accountable, those statements are both true.

That doesn't change the fact that there's a professional football game to be played in just over 72 hours.

Is the whole team just going to not practice? Maybe just the defense? On the most important day of the week?

If Mack left the facility too, that changes thing just a little bit only because he owns a different allotment of team equity.

The way I see it, Mack's reaction would mean 1) JDR has ****** this all up even worse than we thought, and scape goat is an understatement 2) Davis and/or McKenzie ****** up with any decision that involved moving on from KNJ but holding on to JDR.

This is an entirely new layer of dysfunction for this staff, and to me it's more embarrassing than getting face ****** by Brady in Mexico or getting washed on national television.