VEGAN/VEGETARIAN NTers WHAT DO YOU EAT?

I love when people start out with this:
Being a Vegetarian isnt healthy....
and then, when pressed, they reveal that the source of that ironclad belief is something like this:

Well, a nurse once told me that meat has some nutritions or something that cant be found anywhere else. #kanyeshrug
Welp, that's airtight reasoning. 
86c25fd6d4a5bb03f492626a6ce86156aca0b3d.gif
  A little independent thought is a wonderful thing.


As far as the topic post is concerned, like many other health/lifestyle choices it really comes down to self-control.  Do you have the desire to make your OWN conscious choices about what you put into your body or would you prefer to have those choices dictated by circumstance/convenience?  If you want to be able to just grab lunch from whatever's available in the airport, off the highway, or down the block then you'll struggle.  If you're willing to be dedicated and put in the time to really plan your diet and learn to prepare healthy meals and source the best possible produce then your commitment will pay great dividends. 

A lot of people will watch P90X or what have you, stay within their comfort level, eat what they feel like eating, and their gains will be minimal at best.  You can implement a training regimen poorly just as you can implement a diet poorly and still claim to be on it.  So, don't look at your aunt's friend's cousin's former college roommate who's sickly because she only ate hummus and use that as your reference point.  That's like basing your concept of a healthy athletic diet on the contents of Derrick Coleman's refrigerator.

I primarily committed to veganism for ethical reasons, but I'm also serious about my health and my training.  You'll find a ton of resources out there, but you do have to filter it by audience.  Much of what's out there is produced by veg*ans who aren't terribly concerned with the efficiency of their diets, so they'll recommend foods that taste good - the daiya cheese substitute that actually melts, the Sticky Fingers vegan cookie dough, and so on.  I will say this:  although poorly planned vegan diets can be deleterious, like any poorly planned diet, just by staying within the parameters of a vegan diet you're already reducing your risk of heart disease, stroke, and cancer.  In that sense, it's easier to be healthy without knowing anything about nutrition if only because you're eliminating many of the worst dietary excesses common to our culture.  Of course, you're better off doing it right.

To that end: you have to take the Morningstar / Gardein products for what they are: processed convenience foods.  They can be helpful for people beginning a transition since they're similar to the foods most of us grew up with.  They're quick and easy to prepare.  They also show well if you're the sort who, for training purposes, has become obsessed with specs.  The Gardein "chick'n" nuggets, for example, offer a ton of clean protein without the cholesterol.  (They're still high in sodium, though.)  If that's your thing, you're better off there than you would be eating turkey and cheese - let alone standard convenience food.

If you really want to do it right, from what I've found, you'll want to seriously consider a raw food vegan diet.  You can certainly add lean muscle while on that type of diet.  In fact, I'd challenge anyone who says you can't add muscle or perform at your peak while vegan to give it a try.  Someone's already posted some links to vegan bodybuilding examples and I can tell you from personal experience that it's highly conducive to building lean mass and maintaining very low body fat. 

Carl Lewis adhered to a strict vegan diet while recording the greatest athletic achievements of his legendary career.  That, in and of itself, is a pretty powerful example.  I'd also point to ultramarathon runner Scott Jurek, who was recently featured in the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/sports/13runner.html?pagewanted=all) since the man routinely runs over 100 miles in a single day.  His caloric needs FAR exceed that of the average athlete.  He chooses a vegan diet primarily for performance reasons. 

It's a great diet for overall health and sports performance.  If you just want to add bulk for your ego, you can certainly achieve that - but, be honest, what's more important?  Most of us, if pressed, would rather feel good than look good.  We'd rather live longer, healthier lives than guzzle horrible hormone cocktails to artificially boost show muscles that offer no performance benefit in actual sports and/or ride some ridiculous diet roller-coaster (bulk/cut) that's really little more than a "masculine" euphemism for binge/purge.  You can achieve your short term fitness goals while on a vegan diet - but the greatest edge it offers you personally (to say nothing of the ethical and environmental advantages) is with respect to your long-term health. 

You just have to make sure you plan correctly and don't shoot yourself in the foot by accruing a B12 deficiency or what have you over an extended period of time. 

The book I like to recommend most to my athletically inclined friends is Thrive: The Vegan NutritionGuide to Optimal Performance in Sports and Life by Brendan Brazier, a champion Ironman triathelete.  It includes nutrition information, pre- and post-workout fuel, and a detailed meal plan complete with tons of recipes and plenty of variety designed specifically for athletes.  It's a raw food vegan diet, free of processed foods.  If you're not much of a cook, and goodness knows I never was, a raw food diet is actually great because it's not that complicated.  You're not baking, you're not handling raw meat, trimming fat, or removing bones.  The food keeps really well, you can prepare it in advance and live your life. 

If you're not a serious athlete or if you like to entertain or cook for others, there are some good recipes in Ani's Raw Food Essentials as well.  I picked up a copy at a book store on a whim and it contains recipes from a wide variety of cuisines.  Not into soy milk?  All the better. 

Make your own healthier milk substitute by combining a 1/2 cup of almonds, cashews, or pecans with 1/2 cup of pitted dates, a little sea salt to flavor, and 5 cups of water.  Blend until smooth.  To make it even healthier, throw in 3 tablespoons of spirulina powder or wheat grass powder.  No preservatives, no hormones, no hexane-processed soy. 

Do the research, take a couple of months and give it a real, concerted effort. 

Not everyone has the self-discipline to see it through, but everyone I know who's stayed with it has experienced considerable benefits and has no interest in regressing to an omnivorous diet. 


It doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing but, like training, it is what you make of it.  If the only exercise you do in a week is taking the stairs instead of the elevator, you're still better off than you would've been otherwise.  If you only go vegan for one day a week, that's still much better than going to Arby's that day.  If you want to maximize it, you have to be every bit as faithful and dedicated as you would be to a training regimen.  When you cheat, you're cheating yourself - but, unlike an exercise program - be advised that your choices also carry global ramifications as well when you factor in where the food you eat actually comes from and how it's produced.

as of now all the food i eat at home is free range cage free raw organic etc. where applicable.
"Free range" and "cage free" mean practically nothing.  It's a nice racket: get well-meaning people to pay a premium to assuage their consciences / stroke their egos in exchange for, well, the price of a sticker.  The only thing "free range" means is that you have "access to the outdoors."  You could still spend your entire brief life indoors as long as there's a door somewhere through which, in theory, at some point in time you could've used to access an outdoor area of unspecified size.  In practice, "free range" means absolutely nothing.  "Cage free" may mean what it says - but that doesn't prevent thousands of chickens from being packed tightly together in disease ridden conditions, smeared in their own feces.  A corpse by any other name...

Bonus tip:  even non-GMO or GMO-free labels are questionable, since - and this is a heck of a loophole - they only consider the FIRST generation to be genetically modified.  Every subsequent generation, if conventionally produced, would thus qualify as non-GMO.


If anyone wants to chat about this stuff in greater detail you can drop me a PM.  It takes me all of 10 minutes to post something like this, but a 1 page article can be daunting as an unabridged dictionary for the reading-averse, so I don't see the point in pushing it any further as is.  There are already a ton of good posts on the board about this issue.  The Food Inc. thread from last year and NT Vegetarians I Have Some Questions stand out in my mind.  We had one a few weeks back as well that I recall went pretty well - I saw no need to chime in there as we're fortunate that a number of our fellow members seem quite knowledgeable when it comes to sports nutrition and veg*an diets.
 
^
laugh.gif

That's the best you've got? 

Thanks for helping me make my case.  If only the closet bigots in the race threads were as gloriously self-defeating I'd spend even less time posting here than I already do.
 
^
laugh.gif

That's the best you've got? 

Thanks for helping me make my case.  If only the closet bigots in the race threads were as gloriously self-defeating I'd spend even less time posting here than I already do.
 
Yo Meth, can't you eat like you said while still incorporating meat? Or does that cancel everything out?
 
Yo Meth, can't you eat like you said while still incorporating meat? Or does that cancel everything out?
 
Originally Posted by Method Man

That's the best you've got? 

Thanks for helping me make my case.  If only the closet bigots in the race threads were as gloriously self-defeating I'd spend even less time posting here than I already do.

Is it lonely up on that pedestal Captain Planet?
I wasn't laughing about your post, I was laughing because we all knew it was coming.  Go smoke a blunt in relax before you get ulcers.
 
Originally Posted by Method Man

That's the best you've got? 

Thanks for helping me make my case.  If only the closet bigots in the race threads were as gloriously self-defeating I'd spend even less time posting here than I already do.

Is it lonely up on that pedestal Captain Planet?
I wasn't laughing about your post, I was laughing because we all knew it was coming.  Go smoke a blunt in relax before you get ulcers.
 
Is it lonely up on that pedestal Captain Planet?
I wasn't laughing about your post, I was laughing because we all knew it was coming.  Go smoke a blunt in relax before you get ulcers.
I don't need any narcotics to relax, thanks, and I'm doing quite well on the health front - so there's no need to concern yourself with my gastric system.

This wouldn't be the first time you tried to wedge in some sideways talk in a thread on veg*anism, but if you want to play it off otherwise that's cool.  I've no interest in antagonizing you, there are far better uses for your time and mine.  The insults aren't exactly decimating my self-esteem, so I'll live and let live on that one.

In the race threads I'm labeled a militant, in the environmental/animal rights threads I'm labeled a hippie.  It's whatever.  I'd rather care about something than nothing.  I don't put myself on a pedestal, I place my values on a pedestal and aspire to honor them through the way I live.  If people want to focus on the superficial and make assumptions that's on them.

Yo Meth, can't you eat like you said while still incorporating meat? Or does that cancel everything out?
I'm not going to sit here and tell you that it's impossible to be healthy if you include some meat in your diet.  The correlations that associate meats with an increased risk in mortality deal in aggregates and there are so many variables in our diets and our lifestyles that I can't honestly sit here and say that one serving of chicken per year will make you x tenths of a percent more likely to succumb to cancer.  I wouldn't want to.  It doesn't suit me or anyone to be deceptive or misleading, because the goal is for everyone to CHOOSE for themselves the lifestyle that's best suited the their goals and values.  I'd like to think that, all things being equal, people would prefer a diet that's less cruel and environmentally friendlier - and a vegan diet most assuredly qualifies in those respects. 

If you really dig into a lot of the literature, in books like the well-known "In Defense of Food" or even the recent "Eating Animals," the authors take on something of an apologist's bend toward "designer" meats: suggesting that those who wish to indulge their meat cravings may do so more sustainably and humanely if they purchase their meat only from ranchers who don't shoot up cows, pigs, chickens, etc. with antibiotics or growth hormones.  For some people, that's good enough - but 1) it'll be more expensive than a vegan diet  2) it really won't be healthier than a well planned vegan diet  3) it still entails a tremendous amount of needless cruelty.  For those who can't afford to purchase steak from a rancher whose boutique operation yields a few dozen heads of cattle per year, more than likely you are dealing with the growth hormones, antibiotics, genetic modification, and the types of conditions that have resulted in H1N1 (you can thank Smithfield's hog farms for that one), Avian Flu, Mad Cow disease, and, for aquaculture, sea lice infestations.  Then you get into the associated environmental issues like grazing on public land, groundwater contamination, wastewater (read: feces) lagoons, methane release, and on down the line. 

So, ultimately I think you have to ask yourself, "what good really comes of it?"  It is really worth all that just to continue ingesting your protein in a familiar form and from familiar sources? 

People who are really accustomed to the flavor and texture of beef, chicken, pork, and fish can all find very convincing substitutes that are, on the whole, healthier, more ethical, and more sustainably produced - so you really aren't giving up much if you're just willing to stretch your comfort zone a bit and explore the alternatives.  I think a raw vegan diet is healthier, but if you try the gardein brand chik'n tenders or "beef tips" I think you'll be pleasantly surprised - and, unlike meats, you'll never have to worry about biting into a bone fragment, a big hunk of fat, or gristle.  I've also been to a couple of very upscale raw vegan restaurants in various cities and the chefs there elevate it to an absolute art.  Unless you're an absolute glutton I can't see how you'd be left wanting.  Healthy cuisine in general whittles away certain ingredients and techniques, but the number of elements you cut out is really minuscule compared to the options that remain.  The average person just doesn't see it that way at first since the items left out of a healthy vegan diet have taken on a decidedly unhealthy centrality in the contemporary western diet.  It's really only a matter of re-acclimating yourself.  Once you open yourself up to all of the options you're NOT exploring, you'll realize that the meat-centric diet is far more restrictive than a good vegan diet - and I'm not just talking about its effects on your arteries. 

Most of the folks afraid of the centrality of soy in veg*an diets (and if you pick up Thrive, for example, you won't find a single soy based recipe in the entire book and you don't have to eat the same dish twice in a month) primarily get their protein from just two or three different sources - and that's all they eat.  There's so much variety in a vegan diet.  You just have to be open-minded enough to explore it for yourself.
 
Is it lonely up on that pedestal Captain Planet?
I wasn't laughing about your post, I was laughing because we all knew it was coming.  Go smoke a blunt in relax before you get ulcers.
I don't need any narcotics to relax, thanks, and I'm doing quite well on the health front - so there's no need to concern yourself with my gastric system.

This wouldn't be the first time you tried to wedge in some sideways talk in a thread on veg*anism, but if you want to play it off otherwise that's cool.  I've no interest in antagonizing you, there are far better uses for your time and mine.  The insults aren't exactly decimating my self-esteem, so I'll live and let live on that one.

In the race threads I'm labeled a militant, in the environmental/animal rights threads I'm labeled a hippie.  It's whatever.  I'd rather care about something than nothing.  I don't put myself on a pedestal, I place my values on a pedestal and aspire to honor them through the way I live.  If people want to focus on the superficial and make assumptions that's on them.

Yo Meth, can't you eat like you said while still incorporating meat? Or does that cancel everything out?
I'm not going to sit here and tell you that it's impossible to be healthy if you include some meat in your diet.  The correlations that associate meats with an increased risk in mortality deal in aggregates and there are so many variables in our diets and our lifestyles that I can't honestly sit here and say that one serving of chicken per year will make you x tenths of a percent more likely to succumb to cancer.  I wouldn't want to.  It doesn't suit me or anyone to be deceptive or misleading, because the goal is for everyone to CHOOSE for themselves the lifestyle that's best suited the their goals and values.  I'd like to think that, all things being equal, people would prefer a diet that's less cruel and environmentally friendlier - and a vegan diet most assuredly qualifies in those respects. 

If you really dig into a lot of the literature, in books like the well-known "In Defense of Food" or even the recent "Eating Animals," the authors take on something of an apologist's bend toward "designer" meats: suggesting that those who wish to indulge their meat cravings may do so more sustainably and humanely if they purchase their meat only from ranchers who don't shoot up cows, pigs, chickens, etc. with antibiotics or growth hormones.  For some people, that's good enough - but 1) it'll be more expensive than a vegan diet  2) it really won't be healthier than a well planned vegan diet  3) it still entails a tremendous amount of needless cruelty.  For those who can't afford to purchase steak from a rancher whose boutique operation yields a few dozen heads of cattle per year, more than likely you are dealing with the growth hormones, antibiotics, genetic modification, and the types of conditions that have resulted in H1N1 (you can thank Smithfield's hog farms for that one), Avian Flu, Mad Cow disease, and, for aquaculture, sea lice infestations.  Then you get into the associated environmental issues like grazing on public land, groundwater contamination, wastewater (read: feces) lagoons, methane release, and on down the line. 

So, ultimately I think you have to ask yourself, "what good really comes of it?"  It is really worth all that just to continue ingesting your protein in a familiar form and from familiar sources? 

People who are really accustomed to the flavor and texture of beef, chicken, pork, and fish can all find very convincing substitutes that are, on the whole, healthier, more ethical, and more sustainably produced - so you really aren't giving up much if you're just willing to stretch your comfort zone a bit and explore the alternatives.  I think a raw vegan diet is healthier, but if you try the gardein brand chik'n tenders or "beef tips" I think you'll be pleasantly surprised - and, unlike meats, you'll never have to worry about biting into a bone fragment, a big hunk of fat, or gristle.  I've also been to a couple of very upscale raw vegan restaurants in various cities and the chefs there elevate it to an absolute art.  Unless you're an absolute glutton I can't see how you'd be left wanting.  Healthy cuisine in general whittles away certain ingredients and techniques, but the number of elements you cut out is really minuscule compared to the options that remain.  The average person just doesn't see it that way at first since the items left out of a healthy vegan diet have taken on a decidedly unhealthy centrality in the contemporary western diet.  It's really only a matter of re-acclimating yourself.  Once you open yourself up to all of the options you're NOT exploring, you'll realize that the meat-centric diet is far more restrictive than a good vegan diet - and I'm not just talking about its effects on your arteries. 

Most of the folks afraid of the centrality of soy in veg*an diets (and if you pick up Thrive, for example, you won't find a single soy based recipe in the entire book and you don't have to eat the same dish twice in a month) primarily get their protein from just two or three different sources - and that's all they eat.  There's so much variety in a vegan diet.  You just have to be open-minded enough to explore it for yourself.
 
Not to thread jack, but the vegans, peco/ecto/lacto tarians etc...(excluding Meth) Do you choose to not eat meat for yourself, or for the animals? I'm just curious about personal reasoning. It makes sense both ways just curious. 
 
Not to thread jack, but the vegans, peco/ecto/lacto tarians etc...(excluding Meth) Do you choose to not eat meat for yourself, or for the animals? I'm just curious about personal reasoning. It makes sense both ways just curious. 
 
I'm not a vegetarian but I eat at this place called cafe yumm that is pretty veggie.  They make these things called yumm bowls that are crack. The bowls come in layers,

Rice at the bottom,
kidney beans
yumm sauce (don't know how to describe, it's kinda like fry sauce i guess but healthy)
cheese
salsa
deluxe toppings (olives, cilantro, diced avacado, etc.)

They have recipes online to make perfect yumm bowls.  Try them, they are delicious. 
cafe-yumm-1.jpg
 
I'm not a vegetarian but I eat at this place called cafe yumm that is pretty veggie.  They make these things called yumm bowls that are crack. The bowls come in layers,

Rice at the bottom,
kidney beans
yumm sauce (don't know how to describe, it's kinda like fry sauce i guess but healthy)
cheese
salsa
deluxe toppings (olives, cilantro, diced avacado, etc.)

They have recipes online to make perfect yumm bowls.  Try them, they are delicious. 
cafe-yumm-1.jpg
 
Originally Posted by ToLiveandDieinNJ

Not to thread jack, but the vegans, peco/ecto/lacto tarians etc...(excluding Meth) Do you choose to not eat meat for yourself, or for the animals? I'm just curious about personal reasoning. It makes sense both ways just curious. 

For me it's a combination of: fear of where processed meat products are truly coming from and the conditions under which it's created, my love for all animals and my belief that they are all just as emotionally complex as humans, and the fact that if done properly the health benefits are spectacular.  I'm not a vegetarian Nazi though and alot of people are afraid that I'm going to judge them for eating meat and if I tell someone that I'm a vegetarian while they're scarfing down a cheeseburger they always kind of look at me as if they're waiting for me to flip and start something. It's a personal decision, and a big one at that and I don't judge anyone that doesn't choose it but if someone asks me for advice on how to do it I'm more than happy to.
 
Originally Posted by ToLiveandDieinNJ

Not to thread jack, but the vegans, peco/ecto/lacto tarians etc...(excluding Meth) Do you choose to not eat meat for yourself, or for the animals? I'm just curious about personal reasoning. It makes sense both ways just curious. 

For me it's a combination of: fear of where processed meat products are truly coming from and the conditions under which it's created, my love for all animals and my belief that they are all just as emotionally complex as humans, and the fact that if done properly the health benefits are spectacular.  I'm not a vegetarian Nazi though and alot of people are afraid that I'm going to judge them for eating meat and if I tell someone that I'm a vegetarian while they're scarfing down a cheeseburger they always kind of look at me as if they're waiting for me to flip and start something. It's a personal decision, and a big one at that and I don't judge anyone that doesn't choose it but if someone asks me for advice on how to do it I'm more than happy to.
 
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