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[tay1]

Took Miles forever to have a issue that didn't have a reference to Peter in some way. His existence is nothing without Peter being established. I'd rather they make Peter black before I see Miles on the screen at this point.

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

**** it give Miles the Peter stories and have him wife MJ. Problem solved

 

[jays25]

Falcon appeared in Captain America. War Machine in Iron Man. Maybe Miles will appear in Spider-Man. Could even have him be Peter's classmate.

 

[ilike turtles]

I don't even know what you guys are talking about in this thread anymore

 

[tdogg2k]

I don't even know what you guys are talking about in this thread anymore

Same... i see all the quotes and keep scrolling





Childish gambino for miles

 

[Master Zik]

Nah b. You laugh at him but thats what causes him to snap.

Spoiler: This is the face of the dude that mumbles under his breath everytime you make fun of him...until its all over

View media item 1700956

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

besides, whats that on his face?

 

It would be a crazy Peter Parker take

Again, I at no point said that Miles had no value as a character.

I didn't either though.

How are you confusing seeing value in a character for a movie with has no value as a character?

You literally just ended up saying what I said initially and now your going to something else. We broke it down and all that and now you're talking about something else I didn't say and something I definitely didn't say you said.

It's going to be a fresh start regardless whether its Peter or Miles

Not for Peter. This is about to be the 3rd time we see dude in HS.

so there's again no inherent need for Miles to be used over Peter.

This difference of opinion has nothing to do with Miles instead of Peter being inherent.

The gist has been, Peter has had his tries lets give Miles a go.

FTR, if there were more in continuity former Spider ppl around with a good deal of stories I'd probably prefer them to Peter in the movies right now too.

As characters, both are capable of bringing similar and different elements to the MCU, and of course the success of either will be based on the writing. Were Sony still making Spider-Man films instead of Marvel, the situation would most certainly be different. However, Marvel also has better writers than Sony overall when it comes to these superheroes. I expect the next Spider-Man movie to be of a higher quality, because Marvel's films as a whole have been of a higher quality. It'll naturally be boosted even further by the name of Marvel, but that's inevitable and would effect a Miles Morales or Ben Reily movie as well.

I didn't say it wouldn't though. Of course teaming up with Marvel would benefit Spidey whoever is under the mask. I think you're ignoring how I'm connecting that fact with the past incarnations of Peter.

Again this would be a completely different convo if SONY wasn't teaming up with Marvel. If they weren't they probably might've considered Miles that much more.

Comic sales are direct proof of how many fans a comic has, which once again play to film sales which when we're talking about what characters should be introduced or used over another is fairly important.

This is a baseless unsupported statement.

How do they play to film sales? You keep saying it but you're not explaining how. Just saying it does.

How can you prove this in any concrete way? Just say you want to connect comic sales with box office sales cuz it helps your argument cuz it has nothing to do with reality.

If comic sales had anything to do with comic book movies then why was Blade a success? Why was Ant-Man a success? Why was Guardians of the Galaxy a success?

You can not prove this or explain this based off a nonsensical comic sales stance. Especially when we're talking about Spider-Man. Spider-Man is the brand, not Peter Parker. So talking about ASM sales verses other Spider-titles is irrelevant as it pertains to movie box office.

Until you can provide some evidence that comic sales has anything to do with a movie's box office directly that's more than a superficial level I'm going to completely ignore this argument since it's not true in any sense that has to do with Miles vs. Peter.

Superior Spider-Man was also heavily loved by fans and critics alike, so you can't just say it did great numbers because it's Spider-Man

I didn't say that.

I brought up SSM to show it wasn't Peter but Doc Ock and it sold just as well as when Peter was the protagonist in ASM. Same for Clone Saga Ben Reilly. Saying fans liked the story or loved the character isn't a reply, just another fact not related to what I'm talking about.

That was a larger argument about why ASM continues to sell. There are just certain comics that will sell well regardless.

when there are actual reasons given as to why people loved Ock as Spider-Man. In the same way, a lot of people liked Ben Reily. A lot of people hated Jean Paul Valley replacing Bruce Wayne, but loved Knightfall as a story arc and therefore the sales remained steady. On the flip side, Falcon took over as Captain America and sales dropped. It's not just one reason or the other, there are many.

This is nonsense talk that has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

ASM sells, it'll always sell in the top 25, top 10 when a good creative is on the title, regardless of who is under Spider-Man's mask.

Bringing up Captain America is extremely irrelevant. That book isn't a top seller. You seemed to miss my argument about Batman, Justice League, Amazing Spider-Man and Uncanny X-Men. I sure as hell didn't bring up Captain America ASM went through the Clone Saga and Byrne's crap and still sold well. Uncanny X-Men has went through all sorts of crap and sold well. Same for Batman and JL. That's not the case with a guy like Cap or IM. Give them a **** story and sales will drop much more than they would on the aforementioned.

You should know historically, Cap, Thor, IM, Guardians of the Galaxy, even Avengers etc. never really consistently sold huge #s. So heroes being replaced and sales rising or dropping have more to do with the story and whether the dedicated fans are willing to roll with it.

I don't even have an issue with Miles ever appearing in Marvel (Nor do I think does anyone else) I just don't see why he'd be appearing before Peter Parker.

I just don't see any reason why he can't appear before him. Especially in the context and under the circumstances of Peter Parker in film for the past decade +.

Took Miles forever to have a issue that didn't have a reference to Peter in some way. His existence is nothing without Peter being established. I'd rather they make Peter black before I see Miles on the screen at this point.

That's because of the continuity Miles was created in. That could easily and simply be changed. That's more of a comic thing than anything. Peter died. The whole world found out. It had a huge impact on stories going forward.

That's just the way Bendis chose to write it and when Miles book starts for ANAD Marvel, Miles and Peter will still have a close relationship.

It aint hard to do a Spider-Man 2099 approach to it where Miguel as Spidey has nothing to do with Peter at all.

 

[jays25]

Nah b. You laugh at him but thats what causes him to snap.

Spoiler: This is the face of the dude that mumbles under his breath everytime you make fun of him...until its all over

View media item 1700956

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

besides, whats that on his face?

 

It would be a crazy Peter Parker take

Again, I at no point said that Miles had no value as a character.

I didn't either though.

How are you confusing seeing value in a character for a movie with has no value as a character?

You literally just ended up saying what I said initially and now your going to something else. We broke it down and all that and now you're talking about something else I didn't say and something I definitely didn't say you said.

It's going to be a fresh start regardless whether its Peter or Miles

Not for Peter. This is about to be the 3rd time we see dude in HS.

so there's again no inherent need for Miles to be used over Peter.

As characters, both are capable of bringing similar and different elements to the MCU, and of course the success of either will be based on the writing. Were Sony still making Spider-Man films instead of Marvel, the situation would most certainly be different. However, Marvel also has better writers than Sony overall when it comes to these superheroes. I expect the next Spider-Man movie to be of a higher quality, because Marvel's films as a whole have been of a higher quality. It'll naturally be boosted even further by the name of Marvel, but that's inevitable and would effect a Miles Morales or Ben Reily movie as well.

I didn't say it wouldn't though. Of course teaming up with Marvel would benefit Spidey whoever is under the mask. I think you're ignoring how I'm connecting that fact with the past incarnations of Peter.

Again this would be a completely different convo if SONY wasn't teaming up with Marvel. If they weren't they probably might've considered Miles that much more.

Comic sales are direct proof of how many fans a comic has, which once again play to film sales which when we're talking about what characters should be introduced or used over another is fairly important.

This is a baseless unsupported statement.

How can you prove this in any concrete way? Just say you want to connect comic sales with box office sales cuz it helps your argument cuz it has nothing to do with reality.

If comic sales had anything to do with comic book movies then why was Blade a success? Why was Ant-Man a success? Why was Guardians of the Galaxy a success?

You can not prove this or explain this based off a nonsensical comic sales stance. Especially when we're talking about Spider-Man. Spider-Man is the brand, not Peter Parker. So talking about ASM sales verses other Spider-titles is irrelevant as it pertains to movie box office.

Until you can provide some evidence that comic sales has anything to do with a movie's box office that's more than a superficial level I'm going to completely ignore this argument since it's not true in any sense that has to do with Miles vs. Peter.

Superior Spider-Man was also heavily loved by fans and critics alike, so you can't just say it did great numbers because it's Spider-Man

I didn't say that.

I brought up SSM to show it wasn't Peter but Doc Ock and it sold just as well as when Peter was the protagonist.

That was a larger argument about why ASM continues to sell.

when there are actual reasons given as to why people loved Ock as Spider-Man. In the same way, a lot of people liked Ben Reily. A lot of people hated Jean Paul Valley replacing Bruce Wayne, but loved Knightfall as a story arc and therefore the sales remained steady. On the flip side, Falcon took over as Captain America and sales dropped. It's not just one reason or the other, there are many.

This is nonsense talk that has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

ASM sells, it'll always sell in the top 25, top 10 when a good creative is on the title, regardless of who is under Spider-Man's mask.

Bringing up Captain America is extremely irrelevant. That book isn't a top seller. You seemed to miss my argument about Batman, Justice League, Amazing Spider-Man and Uncanny X-Men. I sure as hell didn't bring up Captain America ASM went through the Clone Saga and Byrne's crap and still sold well. Uncanny X-Men has went through all sorts of crap and sold well. Same for Batman and JL. That's not the case with a guy like Cap or IM. Give them a **** story and sales will dropp much more than they would on the aforementioned.

You should know historically, Cap, Thor, IM, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc. never really consistently sold huge #s. So heroes being replaced and sales rising or dropping have more to do with the story and whether the dedicated fans are willing to roll with it.

I don't even have an issue with Miles ever appearing in Marvel (Nor do I think does anyone else) I just don't see why he'd be appearing before Peter Parker.

I just don't see any reason why he can't appear before him. Especially in the context and under the circumstances of Peter Parker in film for the past decade +

You literally said in your last post and I quote "Just because you don't see the value in a character". So where am I confused?

It's a fresh start because its an entirely different version of the character. Sure it'll hit some of the same notes, such as the high school angle you pointed out, but that doesn't change the fact it's going to be something different. Spider-Man and Amazing Spider-Man were different, and both started off with Pete in high school.

Ant Man and Guardians of the Galaxy were both a success for a variety of reasons, one of the main ones being that Marvel had built up the credibility through numerous other films featuring their most popular characters to make it so that people would be willing to go see those films no matter what. They were then also just well written films, so people kept going to see them afterwards. Unlike say the Hulk. You seem to be confused. I'm not saying that comics sales directly indicate how many people will go see a movie, or how well the film will do. I'm again saying that the sales of a comic are a good representation of how many fans a character has. Fans that will then be willing to go see the character on the big screen. If there are 10,000 people that read Spider-Man comics, there's a good chance that those people are going to go see his film and in turn take some of their friends to see the film. That's honestly just common sense.

You said that ASM sells because of the fact its ASM, implying that it will always sell well regardless of who Spider-Man is. I'm saying that that's not true. Had people not liked Doc Ock sales would have tanked. Will it always sell issues in general? Yeah, even the worst comics always sell some issues. Similar to the sales of a movie, there are numerous factors that play into the sales of a comic. And comic sales have absolutely dropped before due to a change in the main character of said comic. I simply used Captain America as one example of that. Spider-Man having more fans overall doesn't make him immune to his sales dropping. And no, ASM will not always sell in the Top 10 or 25 because there have been numerous times when it hasn't, when it's had the exact same creative team. That to me comes off as baseless and just a random assumption being made due to Spider-Man being as popular as he is. Sales can drop because of a change in character, sales can drop because of a change in writer, sales can drop because of the quality of the writing, etc.

Now, does this mean that a Miles Morales film would tank? Or even do worse than a Peter Parker film would? Not at all, and i'm in general not saying that Marvel couldn't do a Miles Morales film. Simply that there is good reason to believe that a Peter Parker film will do well, which in turn doesn't give them any reason to use Miles.

And I in turn see 0 reason why Miles should appear before Peter. This argument about Miles appearing has popped up time and again, with some people citing it as a mistake on Marvel's part not to use him and all these negative things, and I haven't ever seen a solid reason as to why Miles should be used as Spider-Man. And again, I have no problem with him appearing at some point. He certainly has a solid fanbase. In terms of the past Spider-Man films, I just honestly don't see how they matter in regards to this whatsoever, or as to why Miles should be used instead of Peter. To me that just seems to provide more reasoning to use Peter, as similar to Batman in his upcoming film with Superman, a writer can count on fans to already be aware of the character and aptly adjust his writing with that knowledge.

 

[Master Zik]

You literally said in your last post and I quote "Just because you don't see the value in a character". So where am I confused?

All I did was copy and paste what I originally said to you

Seeing value in a character isn't the same thing as what you said "seeing value as a character"

Furthermore, I'm talking about seeing the value in a character for film. You just said you don't see it or to be accurate you don't see enough value. That's basically what I originally said that you denied.

So what are you confused about here? Is what you said "Don't see enough value in him to think...." really that different than what I originally said? or is the word "enough" some key thing I'm missing?

It's a fresh start because its an entirely different version of the character.

What version of Peter Parker is this?

Is he not a socially awkward boy genius that has a Uncle Ben that dies, lives with his Aunt May, and gains spider powers from a spider bite?

Clue me in if you know more than the rest of us.

Sure it'll hit some of the same notes, such as the high school angle you pointed out, but that doesn't change the fact it's going to be something different. Spider-Man and Amazing Spider-Man were different, and both started off with Pete in high school.

If this is your idea of fresh then you can't deny in comparison Miles origin would be fresher.

What you just described sounds like rehashes of SM1 and ASM as far as Peter's origins go.

Ant Man and Guardians of the Galaxy were both a success for a variety of reasons, one of the main ones being that Marvel had built up the credibility through numerous other films featuring their most popular characters to make it so that people would be willing to go see those films no matter what. They were then also just well written films, so people kept going to see them afterwards. Unlike say the Hulk. You seem to be confused. I'm not saying that comics sales directly indicate how many people will go see a movie, or how well the film will do. I'm again saying that the sales of a comic are a good representation of how many fans a character has. Fans that will then be willing to go see the character on the big screen. If there are 10,000 people that read Spider-Man comics, there's a good chance that those people are going to go see his film and in turn take some of their friends to see the film. That's honestly just common sense.

None of this is proof that comic sales have anything to do with a movie's box office.

You said that ASM sells because of the fact its ASM, implying that it will always sell well regardless of who Spider-Man is.

So far that's exactly how it's been.

I'm saying that that's not true.

Do you have evidence proving this?

Cuz sales were high as hell during the Clone Saga and with Byrne's attempt at a reboot. Those were two mostly hated or at least disliked runs of Spidey. A lot of ppl don't like McFarlane's stuff, that sold some of the highest.

Had people not liked Doc Ock sales would have tanked.

This is something you literally can not prove. It's literally if this, if that talk.

Not to mention there was a whole lot of controversy and ppl not liking SSM. So much so death threats were sent to Dan Slott for what he did in ASM 700.

Looking @ ASM's sales history I'd say you're wrong.

Will it always sell issues in general? Yeah, even the worst comics always sell some issues.

Why are you contradicting yourself?

You just said if ppl had not liked the switch to Doc Ock sales would have tanked. Now you're saying in general it will always sell. Make up your mind.

Similar to the sales of a movie, there are numerous factors that play into the sales of a comic. And comic sales have absolutely dropped before due to a change in the main character of said comic.

I'm only talking about Amazing Spider-Man since you chose to say that Miles comic has always been outsold by that. It shows you've been completely ignoring the significance of ASM.

I'm not talking about all comics. I'm not talking about other heroes being replaced and sales dropping. The only other comics I mentioned were the ones that I know continually sell well historically but **** it lets ignore I even brought those up.

This if fans didn't like it sales would drop response doesn't mean anything. Has nothing to do with the facts as we know them. Just hypotheticals that don't have anything to do with what I'm saying about ASM.

I simply used Captain America as one example of that.

Captain America is a terrible example with what I'm talking about with ASM. Terrible. That title doesn't sell well historically. Not even recently. Even before the change to Falcon.

Spider-Man having more fans overall doesn't make him immune to his sales dropping.

I think you're completely missing what I'm saying now and trying to switch this to a topic of do Spider-Man sales drop or not

Not falling for it guy.

And no, ASM will not always sell in the Top 10 or 25 because there have been numerous times when it hasn't, when it's had the exact same creative team.

When was this?

That to me comes off as baseless and just a random assumption being made due to Spider-Man being as popular as he is. Sales can drop because of a change in character, sales can drop because of a change in writer, sales can drop because of the quality of the writing, etc.

Yeah you're definitely trying to switch the topic now

I'll just go back to saying show me how comic sales has anything to do with a movie's box office cuz as far as facts go the exact opposite is true.

And I in turn see 0 reason why Miles should appear before Peter.

That's fine. I didn't really ask.

You said it like that meant something. Some ppl see things differently than you.

This argument about Miles appearing has popped up time and again, with some people citing it as a mistake on Marvel's part not to use him and all these negative things, and I haven't ever seen a solid reason as to why Miles should be used as Spider-Man.

Nobody can make you see solid reasons if you don't want to see them man.

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

Bruh these walls of text :x lol

 

[silverbackhoney]

Bruh these walls of text

lol

I aint eeem read them anymore

 

[tdogg2k]

Bruh these walls of text :x lol

and I use to think your and Jay's arguments on Naruto were lenghty.. that was nothing compared to these.

 

[Master Zik]

Word just don't read them.

Bruh these walls of text :x lol

and I use to think your and Jay's arguments on Naruto were lenghty.. that was nothing compared to these.

Naruto post time-skip sucks. What is there to argue about past that?

One Piece >>>>

 

[tay1]

Surprised there isn't more chatter about Doctor Strange

 

[jays25]

tdogg2k Word, those Naruto arguments dragged on But i'm used to both, because i'm on comic and anime forums as well as this one.

You literally said in your last post and I quote "Just because you don't see the value in a character". So where am I confused?

All I did was copy and paste what I originally said to you

Seeing value in a character isn't the same thing as what you said "seeing value as a character"

Furthermore, I'm talking about seeing the value in a character for film. You just said you don't see it or to be accurate you don't see enough value. That's basically what I originally said that you denied.

So what are you confused about here? Is what you said "Don't see enough value in him to think...." really that different than what I originally said? or is the word "enough" some key thing I'm missing?

It's a fresh start because its an entirely different version of the character.

What version of Peter Parker is this?

Is he not a socially awkward boy genius that has a Uncle Ben that dies, lives with his Aunt May, and gains spider powers from a spider bite?

Clue me in if you know more than the rest of us.

Sure it'll hit some of the same notes, such as the high school angle you pointed out, but that doesn't change the fact it's going to be something different. Spider-Man and Amazing Spider-Man were different, and both started off with Pete in high school.

If this is your idea of fresh then you can't deny in comparison Miles origin would be fresher.

What you just described sounds like rehashes of SM1 and ASM as far as Peter's origins go.

Ant Man and Guardians of the Galaxy were both a success for a variety of reasons, one of the main ones being that Marvel had built up the credibility through numerous other films featuring their most popular characters to make it so that people would be willing to go see those films no matter what. They were then also just well written films, so people kept going to see them afterwards. Unlike say the Hulk. You seem to be confused. I'm not saying that comics sales directly indicate how many people will go see a movie, or how well the film will do. I'm again saying that the sales of a comic are a good representation of how many fans a character has. Fans that will then be willing to go see the character on the big screen. If there are 10,000 people that read Spider-Man comics, there's a good chance that those people are going to go see his film and in turn take some of their friends to see the film. That's honestly just common sense.

None of this is proof that comic sales have anything to do with a movie's box office.

You said that ASM sells because of the fact its ASM, implying that it will always sell well regardless of who Spider-Man is.

So far that'se exactly how it's been.

I'm saying that that's not true.

Do you have evidence proving this?

Cuz sales were high as hell during the Clone Saga and with Byrne's attempt at a reboot. Those were two mostly hated or at least disliked runs of Spidey. A lot of ppl don't like McFarlane's stuff, that sold some of the highest.

Had people not liked Doc Ock sales would have tanked.

This is something you literally can not prove. It's literally if this, if that talk.

Not to mention there was a whole lot of controversy and ppl not liking SSM. So much so death threats were sent to Dan Slott for what he did in ASM 700.

Looking @ ASM's sales history I'd say you're wrong.

Will it always sell issues in general? Yeah, even the worst comics always sell some issues.

Why are you contradicting yourself?

You just said if ppl had not liked the switch to Doc Ock sales would have tanked. Now you're saying in general it will always sell. Make up your mind.

Similar to the sales of a movie, there are numerous factors that play into the sales of a comic. And comic sales have absolutely dropped before due to a change in the main character of said comic.

I'm only talking about Amazing Spider-Man since you chose to say that Miles comic has always been outsold by that. It shows you've been completely ignoring the significance of ASM.

I'm not talking about all comics. I'm not talking about other heroes being replaced and sales dropping. The only other comics I mentioned were the ones that I know continually sell historically.

I simply used Captain America as one example of that.

Captain America is a terrible example with what I'm talking about with ASM. Terrible. That title doesn't sell well historically. Not even recently. Before the change to Falcon.

Spider-Man having more fans overall doesn't make him immune to his sales dropping.

I think you're completely missing what I'm saying now and trying to switch this to a topic of do Spider-Man sales drop or not

Not falling for it guy.

And no, ASM will not always sell in the Top 10 or 25 because there have been numerous times when it hasn't, when it's had the exact same creative team.

When was this?

That to me comes off as baseless and just a random assumption being made due to Spider-Man being as popular as he is. Sales can drop because of a change in character, sales can drop because of a change in writer, sales can drop because of the quality of the writing, etc.

Yeah you're definitely trying to switch the topic now

I'll just go back to saying show me how comic sales has anything to do with a movie's box office cuz as far as facts go the exact opposite is true.

And I in turn see 0 reason why Miles should appear before Peter.

That's fine. I didn't really ask.

You said it like that meant something. Some ppl see things differently than you.

This argument about Miles appearing has popped up time and again, with some people citing it as a mistake on Marvel's part not to use him and all these negative things, and I haven't ever seen a solid reason as to why Miles should be used as Spider-Man.

Nobody can make you see solid reasons if you don't want to see them man.

No I see now. My mistake.

No that's the basic characteristics for Peter Parker after all. I'm just saying it'll still be a "fresh" take in the same way that ASM was one after SM, because you can expect that the writer isn't going to keep things exactly the same. Miles entire origin hinges on Peter Parker, so they'd have to make quite a few changes to make it really fresh in the way you're speaking of, him being used before Peter, which could very well just lead to it hitting the same chords that Peter's origin did.

Again, common sense should tell you that the fans of a comic book character are going to see the comic book character on film.

Based on what?

Sales were high compared to what though? Because it all depends on what you're using to classify something as having high sales. The sales of Miles Morales comic is generally high, but there are comics that sell more than it, and it in turn has dropped by thousands before, as has pretty much any comic ever.

The first issue of Superior Spider-Man sold 118,000 + copies. The second then sold 112,000 +, the third 101,000 +, the fourth 95,000 +, the fifth 94,000 +, etc. Just looking at January 2012, ASM sold 57,000 +. Then you have January 2015, ASM sold 110,000 +. Looking at the sales history, i'd say its all across the board, with sales rising and falling based on what's happening in the comic at the time. So again, what do you classify as selling well? Because while a lot of people did indeed hate Ock, a lot of people also liked him, as evidenced by the sales not being the worst in the comics history.

I'm not contradicting myself at all. You're taking "in general" and assuming it means the same as selling "well". As I asked previously, what are you counting as selling well? Because i'm saying that if Ock had been universally hated we would've seen a large drop in terms of sales, like from 110,000 to 50,000. That wasn't the case.

You can use any comic you want lol it honestly doesn't matter because no matter the comic the sales are going to rise and fall. There has been a time where freaking Catwoman and Suicide Squad have outsold ASM. (November 2012)

All I said originally was that Peter's comic outsells Miles consistently, speaking to greater popularity of one character over the other. You then chose to say that that doesn't necessarily mean anything, as a comic like ASM will always sell well, regardless of who is in it. I'm then saying that that's not the case, as even with Peter it hasn't always sold well. If people don't like a storyline the sales will reflect it.

I was specifically speaking 2012, but i'm sure if I looked through comic sales for other years i'd find more.

Ditto.

 

[nomnom]

The Miles/Peter situation has been the most divisive topic every 20 pages hahaha

 

[silverbackhoney]

Dragon Ball Z is da gawd of animes dough

 

[jays25]

Dragon Ball Z is da gawd of animes dough

No love for Gundam?

 

[nomnom]

Yu yu hakusho

jk DBZ is still the best.

 

[Master Zik]

Miles entire origin hinges on Peter Parker, so they'd have to make quite a few changes to make it really fresh in the way you're speaking of, him being used before Peter,

I said this to someone else already but it can easily be rewritten in a way Parker has no bearing on his origin. Since for the most part the meat and potatoes of Miles origin has nothing to do with Peter Parker. He gets his powers while Peter is still alive. He was already getting use to them and using them. It's Pete's death that has him decide to pursue it but that can be changed to something else spurring him on like his criminal uncle or Venom hunting him down or some interaction with Bombshell.

which could very well just lead to it hitting the same chords that Peter's origin did.

There's no denying that when looking at the bare bones of it, both Peter and Miles are HSers that get super powers and become superheroes. So obviously those same chords would be hit. Trying to fight crime and finish homework while hiding it from your parents and the social drama of being a teenager.

But that's not a knock against Miles. If it is, it'd be a knock against every teenage superhero. That's just the way it is.

Again, common sense should tell you that the fans of a comic book character are going to see the comic book character on film.

You'd have to show these ppl are going there for Peter Parker specifically and not Spider-Man.

That's another point that kinda connects to my ASM argument. It's a Spider-Man movie. Spidey fans are coming out regardless.

Your argument can't be so simple to say that ASM sells 100k and Miles Spidey book sells 50k therefore A movie with Peter is guaranteed to have 50k more ticket sales C'mon now. That's flawed reasoning while ignoring so many other things.

Based on what?

Sales were high compared to what though? Because it all depends on what you're using to classify something as having high sales. The sales of Miles Morales comic is generally high, but there are comics that sell more than it, and it in turn has dropped by thousands before, as has pretty much any comic ever.

I'm not comparing ASM sales to anything. High sales as in consistently a top seller, among the best. If you want to put #s on it or go by ranking I don't think it'd matter.

Comic book sales dropping is nothing I ever argued against. A comic that sells the most would naturally drop in sales from issue #1 to #2.

I'm not interested in arguing if sales drop or not. Never was my argument.

The first issue of Superior Spider-Man sold 118,000 + copies. The second then sold 112,000 +, the third 101,000 +, the fourth 95,000 +, the fifth 94,000 +, etc. Just looking at January 2012, ASM sold 57,000 +. Then you have January 2015, ASM sold 110,000 +. Looking at the sales history, i'd say its all across the board, with sales rising and falling based on what's happening in the comic at the time. So again, what do you classify as selling well?

If you're gonna compare Superior you should do it anually to ASM either the volume after or before.

Because while a lot of people did indeed hate Ock, a lot of people also liked him, as evidenced by the sales not being the worst in the comics history.

To me that goes against your hypothetical argument.

You're the one that said if fans didn't like it, sales would tank. What do you classify as tanking? Not selling the same amount as it did that time last year? Less than 50k? 20k? 2k?

Fans definitely didn't like SSM. You can assume they stopped buying after #1 if you want. All that means is the story brought in more fans. That kinda just shows what I'm talking about who is under Spidey's mask in ASM if you want to talk about that book selling more than Miles book. Hypothetically speaking, if a volume ASM came out and it was revealed it was Miles under Spidey's mask it'd maintain ASM #s on average.

I'm not contradicting myself at all. You're taking "in general" and assuming it means the same as selling "well". As I asked previously, what are you counting as selling well? Because i'm saying that if Ock had been universally hated we would've seen a large drop in terms of sales, like from 110,000 to 50,000. That wasn't the case.

This is a hypothetical argument you can not prove.

What is universally hated? People seem to universally hate the Clone Saga. That sold like crazy. So either the term universally hated doesn't really mean anything and ASM will sell well

I mean sell well as in it will generally rank among the top on average and boost in sales depending on story. So if ASM's base is something like 80k, it'll stay around there and go up depending on the next event.

You can use any comic you want lol it honestly doesn't matter because no matter the comic the sales are going to rise and fall.

Rising and falling between 15k and 30k is completely different

There have been times where freaking Catwoman and Suicide Squad have outsold ASM.

I'm sorry but issue #1s and a bunch of variant covers really shouldn't factor in to this discussion. Pretty dishonest if we're being serious.

ASM on issue #566 shouldn't be compared to SS#1 that has 8 variant covers or any other incentive.

All I said originally was that Peter's comic outsells Miles consistently, speaking to greater popularity of one character over the other. You then chose to say that that doesn't necessarily mean anything, as a comic like ASM will always sell well, regardless of who is in it. I'm then saying that that's not the case, as even with Peter it hasn't always sold well. If people don't like a storyline the sales will reflect it.

I know what I said. I'm standing by it.

ASM in general will always sell well. A good story (according to fans as a whole) only boosts sales. Only a truly terrible story (Peter Parker kills babies and becomes the Anti-christ) would tank sales. So with that in mind, it's no surprise that Ben Reilly in ASM still did similar huge #s as when Peter was Spidey. To go even further, SSM sold better than ASM if you compare it year by year. According to you, Doc Ock as Spidey is more popular than Peter as Spidey and Doc Ock in a SSM movie would lead to a bigger box office than previous Peter incarnations.

I'm sure if Miles would put in to ASM and Peter was given another adjective things would remain consistent for ASM.

 

[ssjjfar]

Almost 20 years later, I still use ssjjfar for everything.
DBZ 4 Life

 

[silverbackhoney]

Yeah, I don't think any animated anything will ever have such a huge impact on society like DBZ did. Every boy age 10-45 knows what a super saiyan is

 

[jays25]

Miles entire origin hinges on Peter Parker, so they'd have to make quite a few changes to make it really fresh in the way you're speaking of, him being used before Peter,

I said this to someone else already but it can easily be rewritten in a way Parker has no bearing on his origin. Since for the most part the meat and potatoes of Miles origin has nothing to do with Peter Parker. He gets his powers while Peter is still alive. He was already getting use to them and using them. It's Pete's death that has him decide to pursue it but that can be changed to something else spurring him on like his criminal uncle or Venom hunting him down or some interaction with Bombshell.

which could very well just lead to it hitting the same chords that Peter's origin did.

There's no denying that when looking at the bare bones of it, both Peter and Miles are HSers that get super powers and become superheroes. So obviously those same chords would be hit. Trying to fight crime and finish homework while hiding it from your parents and the social drama of being a teenager.

But that's not a knock against Miles. If it is, it'd be a knock against every teenage superhero. That's just the way it is.

Again, common sense should tell you that the fans of a comic book character are going to see the comic book character on film.

You'd have to show these ppl are going there for Peter Parker specifically and not Spider-Man.

That's another point that kinda connects to my ASM argument. It's a Spider-Man movie. Spidey fans are coming out regardless.

Your argument can't be so simple to say that ASM sells 100k and Miles Spidey book sells 50k therefore A movie with Peter is guaranteed to have 50k more ticket sales C'mon now. That's flawed reasoning while ignoring so many other things.

Based on what?

Sales were high compared to what though? Because it all depends on what you're using to classify something as having high sales. The sales of Miles Morales comic is generally high, but there are comics that sell more than it, and it in turn has dropped by thousands before, as has pretty much any comic ever.

I'm not comparing ASM sales to anything. High sales as in consistently a top seller, among the best. If you want to put #s on it or go by ranking I don't think it'd matter.

Comic book sales dropping is nothing I ever argued against. A comic that sells the most would naturally drop in sales from issue #1 to #2.

I'm not interested in arguing if sales drop or not. Never was my argument.

The first issue of Superior Spider-Man sold 118,000 + copies. The second then sold 112,000 +, the third 101,000 +, the fourth 95,000 +, the fifth 94,000 +, etc. Just looking at January 2012, ASM sold 57,000 +. Then you have January 2015, ASM sold 110,000 +. Looking at the sales history, i'd say its all across the board, with sales rising and falling based on what's happening in the comic at the time. So again, what do you classify as selling well?

If you're gonna compare Superior you should do it anually to ASM either the volume after or before.

Because while a lot of people did indeed hate Ock, a lot of people also liked him, as evidenced by the sales not being the worst in the comics history.

To me that goes against your hypothetical argument.

You're the one that said if fans didn't like it, sales would tank. What do you classify as tanking? Not selling the same amount as it did that time last year? Less than 50k? 20k? 2k?

Fans definitely didn't like SSM. You can assume they stopped buying after #1 if you want. All that means is the story brought in more fans. That kinda just shows what I'm talking about who is under Spidey's mask in ASM if you want to talk about that book selling more than Miles book. Hypothetically speaking, if a volume ASM came out and it was revealed it was Miles under Spidey's mask it'd maintain ASM #s on average.

I'm not contradicting myself at all. You're taking "in general" and assuming it means the same as selling "well". As I asked previously, what are you counting as selling well? Because i'm saying that if Ock had been universally hated we would've seen a large drop in terms of sales, like from 110,000 to 50,000. That wasn't the case.

This is a hypothetical argument you can not prove.

What is universally hated? People seem to universally hate the Clone Saga. That sold like crazy. So either the term universally hated doesn't really mean anything and ASM will sell well

I mean sell well as in it will generally rank among the top on average and boost in sales depending on story. So if ASM's base is something like 80k, it'll stay around there and go up depending on the next event.

You can use any comic you want lol it honestly doesn't matter because no matter the comic the sales are going to rise and fall.

Rising and falling between 15k and 30k is completely different

There have been times where freaking Catwoman and Suicide Squad have outsold ASM.

I'm sorry but issue #1s and a bunch of variant covers really shouldn't factor in to this discussion. Pretty dishonest if we're being serious.

ASM on issue #566 shouldn't be compared to SS#1 that has 8 variant covers or any other incentive.

All I said originally was that Peter's comic outsells Miles consistently, speaking to greater popularity of one character over the other. You then chose to say that that doesn't necessarily mean anything, as a comic like ASM will always sell well, regardless of who is in it. I'm then saying that that's not the case, as even with Peter it hasn't always sold well. If people don't like a storyline the sales will reflect it.

I know what I said. I'm standing by it.

ASM in general will always sell well. A good story (according to fans as a whole) only boosts sales. Only a truly terrible story (Peter Parker kills babies and becomes the Anti-christ) would tank sales. So with that in mind, it's no surprise that Ben Reilly in ASM still did similar huge #s as when Peter was Spidey. To go even further, SSM sold better than ASM if you compare it year by year. According to you, Doc Ock as Spidey is more popular than Peter as Spidey and Doc Ock in a SSM movie would lead to a bigger box office than previous Peter incarnations.

I'm sure if Miles would put in to ASM and Peter was given another adjective things would remain consistent for ASM.

This is true.

That's not my argument at all. My argument from the start had nothing to do with guaranteed sales one way or the other, and was simply stating that the sales of a comic book are a good indication of how many fans a character has, which could in turn indicate how films based around two different characters would do in general and in relation to each other. Now, as i've also pointed out, this isn't just the one indicator that matters. Just like the fact that ASM2 didn't do so hot isn't the only indicator of how a future Spider-Man film might do. There are many different factors, and I was saying that comic sales were one.

If ASM hits 20K it has absolutely tanked Though in general I consider tanking to be either a dramatic decrease based on what prior sales were or a steady decrease (by the thousands of course) over time. Go from 100,00K to 90K to 85, to 80, and lower and lower i'd say the book is slowly tanking, or fast depending on how large the jumps were between the issues. Even at those numbers, it could still be hitting the top 25 for a time, based on that year, but unless it evens out i'd call it a tank. Because unless comic sales are going down all across the board to indicate something effecting readers as a whole, the series isn't succeeding. It can be looked at in the biggest cases (Such as comparing the sales of Justice League to those of the Simpsons) in a case by case basis, but you can pretty easily determine if a series is tanking or not based on the numbers. Does that mean the book itself will go under? Maybe, maybe not. That'd depend on the higher ups at the company (And for the Simpsons they'd probably be thrilled either way because both are far more than double what they usually get.) For Spider-Man or Justice League it'd probably at least cause a change in the writer though.

SSM sold better than ASM in a particular year, but there's in turn been years that ASM has sold better than what SSM did. Sales of the Clone Saga dropped to the 30,000 range and afterwards, once Peter came back you had sales hitting the 80,000 range, consistently in both cases.

If Peter were still appearing in the comic as Spider-Lord or Man Spider and still functioned as the main character than sales probably would remain consistent. Replace Peter with Miles altogether though and it probably wouldn't.

Amazing Spider-Man is no different than any other comic and isn't consistently guaranteed anything. There are a lot of different factors that go into the sales, but changing the main character will have some kind of change on them. This might not be instant if its within a few weeks, but given time it'll show. Let Jim Gordon be Batman for long enough and you'll see a change in the sales.

 

[everysingletime]

I saw that there was 47 new replies for this thread..

I was a little let down lmao when I came in here.

Not exactly sure why DBZ is being mentioned but for anyone who are fans.

 

[tay1]

Never watched all of dbz. It's been something I've been meaning to do for the longest

 

[everysingletime]

It might be too late.

Lol. I loved DBZ back in the day.

The Cell Saga was one of my favorite arcs for DBZ. But when I try watching a fight from the Cell Saga these days, I just get bored. An episode can be literally 95 percent posturing/staring/talking and 5 percent fighting

Like naaa, I don't have that kind of attention span anymore

Akira's new stuff that's come out is still the same. Too much filler and not enough story/action to hold my attention still