What non-J's has Tinker Designed

The sole purpose of some of you is to deliberately come on this board and "verbally attack" our company, products, and people WITHOUT giving a second thought about doing the research necessary for making a logical, substantial statement


What research is needed to be done to be able to compare a shoe retroed today to that of the same shoe that was retroed a few years ago? The differences areglaring. You aren't justifying anything, you are making excuses. Has the grip over the factories been lost THAT much over the past four years? If your"job" is to inform the public, in all sincerity, you make Nike come across as a company in total disarray. A company that has no say in how it'sproducts hit the shelves. Your "you have a choice what you buy" ideology is terrible. In fact, I am guessing Nike doesn't hold that mantra, youdo. The fact that we have a choice what we buy doesn't warrant the sharp declines in quality whilst raising the prices. I'm sorry. You aren'thelping ease the minds of anyone here, you are actually somewhat infuriating them. Also, "research the other end of the spectrum" is ludicrous. Fromyour stance it seems that Nike doesn't carry any blame for why their retros are terrible quality. You act as when Nike places an order it's a crapshootand that gets passed on down to us.

Keep in mind that we do have to alter our production practices at times to be "environmentally sound" and to use "earth friendly" chemicals/materials; and to also do away with chemicals/materials that we have used in the past that we have found to harm the environment.

I'm sorry but this makes little to no sense at all. You've had to alter which materials you can use on retros but not on new shoes? Due toenvironmental concerns you are only able to produce shoes using nice leather on new shoes? There is a huge difference and you are passing the buck by sayingthis stuff is out of Nike's control.
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We don't like to "alienate" anyone. That's not why we're in business. But keep in mind because we are a $15 billion dollar company,operate on six continents, and employ more then 30,000 people globally it's quite a task to get everyone "on the same page".

We do understand that we have to "stay true" to our mission statement and Maxims; especially Maxim# 5: THE CONSUMER DECIDES. But you should alsorealize that paying attention to every little detail is a very painstaking task, and almost impossible in some cases. "Retros" are sometimesreplications of products and not exact "duplications" of them.

Our mission statement is not to make "fads" or to get the "fickle hype dollars of kids". For those of you that don't know, ourmission statement is: TO BRING INSPIRATION AND INNOVATION TO EVERY ATHLETE* IN THE WORLD. That's what got us to this point as well.That's what puts us in front of our competitors. In relation to this original post, that's what makes people like Tinker Hatfield so special tothis company.

lobotomybeats, please go back and reread ALL the comments/posts. If it still doesn't make any sense to you, then Ican't help you anymore then I already have.
 
I agree with a lot of the things being said here from both sides. Look, the bottom line for Nike is profit/margins. Nike is a business. They are trying toreach 20 billion a year or whatever it may be. As loyalists with emotional connections to these products, we want the focus to be on design and quality, whenin fact, it is on MONEY. The fact is, the leather used to produce shoes on 1992 is more expensive now (along with the labor) to produce. So Nike has to decidewhether to sell the product at a higher pricepoint and maintain the quality, or cut a few corners and release it at around the same pice. They are certainlynot going to take the loss on the reduced margin, so the product is taking the hit. A majority of consumers (read:billions of dollars) don't have an eyefor telling a quality leather from a cheaper leather when it's sitting there in brand new condition on the store shelf. Only AFTER a few wears will thedifference become apparent, and at that point Nike has already made the sale. Mission accomplished. They know that people will continue to buy the product justbased on the visual emotional stimulation/nostalgic feeling it evokes. Much of the bravado and daring attitude we experienced in the 80's-90's is nowgone. Times have changed. Yes it is unfortunate. There ARE a lot of people at Nike (Especially the designers) who, like us, WANT that BACK. They WANT betterquality products etc. But they are not the ones making the call in most cases, so the money-making corporate monster is essentially winning the battle. AsMen-of-Oregon said, it is now up to us to decide whether to buy or not. And I have to say, the "take-it-or-leave-it" approach is NOT a good idea.Because eventually, a hungry NEW company that IS interested in design and quality will come along with 100% consumer focus, and that will be the fall of Rome.Nike did it to Adidas in the 80's and the same thing could happen to them if they maintain this approach. Just my 2.
 
We don't like to "alienate" anyone. That's not why we're in business. But keep in mind because we are a $15 billion dollar company, operate on six continents, and employ more then 30,000 people globally it's quite a task to get everyone "on the same page".
Yeah. Dude, keep telling yourself that. If this is the info Nike is giving you, keep sipping the Kool Aid man. So the only time people are"on the same page" is when releasing new shoes and the occasional retro? You don't really believe this do you? Who do you congratulate when thequality is great? Definitely not the people placing the orders or designing, the quality isn't up to them...it's up to the factories and industryregulations. right?
our mission statement is: TO BRING INSPIRATION AND INNOVATION TO EVERY ATHLETE* IN THE WORLD. That's what got us to this point as well. That's what puts us in front of our competitors
Maybe. But you tell me who would have been inspired if the original Military IVs came in the quality that the retros did. This isn't about adifference in colors, this is quality. This isn't "we couldn't get the exact colors and shape right". This is "we chose not to give youwhat you SHOULD expect"
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lobotomybeats, talk to me once you've visited a shoe factory, or studied productionmethods, standards, and practices. Maybe then you'll have a better understanding of how it goes instead of nitpicking certain models. And then maybe we candiscuss in detail the complex issues of industrial regulations and mandates in regards to global manufacturing and processes. Better yet, how about weset up a meeting with our Chairman of the Board Mr. Knight, current CEO Mark Parker, President Charlie Denson, and all theother Executives involved with manufacturing and global processes, research and design, and international practices. Then you can explain to them how easy itis to duplicate a retro EXACTLY how it was released originally 10, 15, 20 years ago. Then you can explain to them that the "crappy quality" isunacceptable in this industry. I'm sure if you can do it here on this message board you can do it in a meeting room filled with Executives, both local andglobal? I don't think you have enough information to enter into a forum like that. The experience would leave you wetting your pants after leaving themeeting because you would only embarass yourself with the lack of information or data.

If you're here to make a name for yourself at Nike's expense, I can't help you with that. If you'd like to try and learn/understand thecriteria involved then I can assist you with that.
 
speaking of.....

Originally Posted by MenofOregon

complex issues of industrial regulations and mandates in regards to global manufacturing and processes.
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China Passes a Sweeping Labor Law
"China's legislature passed a sweeping new labor law today that strengthensprotections for workers across its booming economy, rejecting pleas from foreign investors who argued that the measure would reduce China's appeal as alow-wage, business-friendly industrial base."

The article is from the middle of 2007 - but the changes went into effect on Jan 1 2008.

Give it a read if you want to understand the pressures that global producers face - as well as an insight into why retail prices will rise.
 
Thank you for the contribution mheftman. That kind of information helps the consumer and gives them a better understanding of the complexity.We need more contributions like this one that would only enhance the discussion, not hinder it. It would benefit us all.
 
Originally Posted by MenofOregon

lobotomybeats, talk to me once you've visited a shoe factory, or studied production methods, standards, and practices. Maybe then you'll have a better understanding of how it goes instead of nitpicking certain models. And then maybe we can discuss in detail the complex issues of industrial regulations and mandates in regards to global manufacturing and processes. Better yet, how about we set up a meeting with our Chairman of the Board Mr. Knight, current CEO Mark Parker, President Charlie Denson, and all the other Executives involved with manufacturing and global processes, research and design, and international practices. Then you can explain to them how easy it is to duplicate a retro EXACTLY how it was released originally 10, 15, 20 years ago. Then you can explain to them that the "crappy quality" is unacceptable in this industry. I'm sure if you can do it here on this message board you can do it in a meeting room filled with Executives, both local and global?

If you're here to make a name for yourself at Nike's expense, I can't help you with that. If you'd like to try and learn/understand the criteria involved then I can assist you with that.
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Haha Brilliant.
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I'm not nitpicking certain models. I used theMilitary IVs as an example. That's it. I'm not trying to make a name for myself, on a message board mind you, by stating what everyone else is alsothinking. I still don't see how the industry-wide regulations only degrade the qualities of the retros. Call me myopic.

And this meeting you speak of, what does that have to do with me expressing disgust with what you say are the standard practices? Am I claiming that I cantalk to "your" CEOs or whatever by saying that what you are claiming are the company's mantra is disheartening? Does making these names bold meananything more? But put me down for said meeting. I have it in me. I'll have my people talk to "your" people. Do you mind if I bring suchnotables, and equally boldened, as Master Illusionist Mr. David Copperfield, wonderful person and 7th Heaven Mom CatherineHicks, TV veteran and legend Abe Vigoda, brilliant physicist Stephen Hawking, chess legend BorisSpassky, and cartoon hero Bullwinkle the Moose?


You know, it'd be easier to believe you worked for Nike, or at least in any capacity to SPEAK FOR THEM, if you actually gave proper answers to questionsasked.
 
lobotomybeats wrote:
Originally Posted by MenofOregon

lobotomybeats, talk to me once you've visited a shoe factory, or studied production methods, standards, and practices. Maybe then you'll have a better understanding of how it goes instead of nitpicking certain models. And then maybe we can discuss in detail the complex issues of industrial regulations and mandates in regards to global manufacturing and processes. Better yet, how about we set up a meeting with our Chairman of the Board Mr. Knight, current CEO Mark Parker, President Charlie Denson, and all the other Executives involved with manufacturing and global processes, research and design, and international practices. Then you can explain to them how easy it is to duplicate a retro EXACTLY how it was released originally 10, 15, 20 years ago. Then you can explain to them that the "crappy quality" is unacceptable in this industry. I'm sure if you can do it here on this message board you can do it in a meeting room filled with Executives, both local and global?

If you're here to make a name for yourself at Nike's expense, I can't help you with that. If you'd like to try and learn/understand the criteria involved then I can assist you with that.
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Haha Brilliant.
eyes.gif
I'm not nitpicking certain models. I used the Military IVs as an example. That's it. I'm not trying to make a name for myself, on a message board mind you, by stating what everyone else is also thinking. I still don't see how the industry-wide regulations only degrade the qualities of the retros. Call me myopic.

And this meeting you speak of, what does that have to do with me expressing disgust with what you say are the standard practices? Am I claiming that I can talk to "your" CEOs or whatever by saying that what you are claiming are the company's mantra is disheartening? Does making these names bold mean anything more? But put me down for said meeting. I have it in me. I'll have my people talk to "your" people. Do you mind if I bring such notables, and equally boldened, as Master Illusionist Mr. David Copperfield, wonderful person and 7th Heaven Mom Catherine Hicks, TV veteran and legend Abe Vigoda, brilliant physicist Stephen Hawking, chess legend Boris Spassky, and cartoon hero Bullwinkle the Moose?


You know, it'd be easier to believe you worked for Nike, or at least in any capacity to SPEAK FOR THEM, if you actually gave proper answers to questions asked.

All this above basically means is, "You're right, I don't have the information available to confront these people about my gripes aboutwhy my retros aren't EXACTLY what I want them to be straight from the factory that made them over 10 years ago. Nor do I have the substantial data tobackup my claims that you guys at Nike can make the "quality" EXACTLY the same as the original if you guys try. So I'll just cover up myinability with some humor."....... Congratulations, you've managed to "bumble" my words and divert from the original message of that post.What it basically sounds like is that you have enough of the answers about global production methods and practices to confront all these businessmen in ameeting. If you're bold enough to come on this message board and state your claim then surely you can do the same in a more organized environment, like ameeting with tele-conferencing? Should be the same thing, correct?

I think it would be in your best interest to drop the gameplan all-in-all. This is getting you nowhere.

Unfortunately, not everything retroed in this world will be exactly the same as the original models, no matter how hard companies or factories try. Timeschange, and so do production practices and materials.
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i'm sorry, but this has gone way off topic. these posts are useless and a waste of bandwidth.

speaking of which, didn't tinker design the wade 2.0s? or at least contribute?
 
Tinker said he did not contribute to the design, but the other designers in the 'Kitchen' gave their input to the Converse designer.
 
All this above basically means is, "You're right, I don't have the information available to confront these people about my gripes about why my retros aren't EXACTLY what I want them to be straight from the factory that made them over 10 years ago. Nor do I have the substantial data to backup my claims that you guys at Nike can make the "quality" EXACTLY the same as the original if you guys try"....... Congratulations, you've managed to "bumble" my words and divert from the original message of that post.What it basically sounds like is that you have enough of the answers about global production methods and practices to confront all these businessmen in a meeting. If you're bold enough to come on this message board and state your claim then surely you can do the same in a more organized environment, like a meeting with tele-conferencing. Should be the same thing, correct?

Unfortunately, not everything retroed in this world will be exactly the same as the original models, no matter how hard companies or factories try. Times change, and so do production practices and materials.


"bold enough to come on this message board and state your claim"- haha. Ah, yes, one must be bold to make claims regarding retroquality on a board that boasts a thread containing 11 pages of "most embarrassing sexual encounters". So bold am I!

I'm not saying I have all the facts. Evidently that is "your[emoji]174[/emoji]"job. All I am saying, as have others, is that the qualityisn't there. That is all. Look at these facts. New shoes= nice quality. Retros= not nice quality. You are stating that regulations and the factories(
eyes.gif
) have kept Nike from producing nice shoes. How can that be if the same regulations apply to the introductions of new shoes? That isn't that hardof a question to answer. Nike sees the difference in retros and new shoes. I'm not saying Nike has to make the retros the exact quality of the originals. Idon't know that anyone expects that. I guess what I am claiming is that they at least attempt to make them a little more than a shell of their originalpredecessors.

I think it would be in your best interest to drop the gameplan all-in-all. This is getting you nowhere.

Once again, thanks for looking out for MY best interest *gush* I think it would be in your "best interest" to not come off quite so pompouswhen defending a company that everyone here admits to loving, myself included. Feel free to use all of your pronouns at your leisure, just try not to make thecompany you "have worked so hard for" seem so negligent and yourself seem so ridiculous.



What it basically sounds like is that you have enough of the answers about global production methods and practices to confront all these businessmen in a meeting.

I don't think you have enough information to enter into a forum like that. The experience would leave you wetting your pants after leaving the meeting because you would only embarass yourself with the lack of information or data.


Yeah, if you have noticed, I haven't entered into a "forum like that." Oh and where have I stated that I have the answers about globalproductions? I haven't. speaking of "bumble"... You're assertions that I must be able to confront the CEO with hard facts because I amstating my displeasure here is hilarious. If I don't like the president's foreign policies should I be able to take that up with him? So "keepquiet if you can't hang with the guys that have been doing this all their lives?" You are amazing.

Once again, my problem isn't with the fact that the retros aren't identical to their predecessors...my problem is that their is a huge difference inquality between new shoes and retros.

But feel free to say you are answering questions by telling people that they aren't qualified to question you and "your[emoji]174[/emoji]" company.

KICKINHEADZ1, Your individual statements can only be taken seriously if it comes with substantial, PROVEN fact, results, or data. That's how you seriously debate issues. If you want to be heard, say things that have substance, not "cheap shots". THAT gets respect in life, and in this business.

There's no sense in having an open two-way discussion about those kinds of topics if the other party is not willing to discover and research the "other end of the spectrum"

HOVKid, can you tell me Gentry's exact job title and what his exact job duties are and what he does on a daily basis with Jordan Brand? If anyone can answer those questions correctly then yes, you have every right to be upset with him.

lobotomybeats, talk to me once you've visited a shoe factory, or studied production methods, standards, and practices. Maybe then you'll have a better understanding of how it goes instead of nitpicking certain models. And then maybe we can discuss in detail the complex issues of industrial regulations and mandates in regards to global manufacturing and processes.
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That comment wasn't addressed toKICKINHEADZ1, as you so"conveniently" altered it to look that way. That explains a lot already. That comment was addressed to you sir,lobotomybeats. Read itslowly and carefully, and then analyze it. Not everyone here has taken "cheap shots" like yourself, so it probably would be appreciated if youdidn't try to "round up the troops" into your army to make your case. Everyone has the ability to do so in an intelligent manner on theirown. I defended my stance and the company I work for with FACTS sir, not "cheap shots". If you have an issue with FACTS then you certainly have aproblem with life as a whole. I don't try to come off as pompous. My facts and information about the company may come across as "straight anddirect". That may bother some but the bottom line is ....it's cold, hard facts and nothing else. I merely correct a lot of misinformation, misnomers,and false impressions on this message board because it seems to be very one-sided at times. From what I read, there are a few here that appreciate insight fromthe "other side".

You've also done an excellent job with contradicting your stance by writing those additional comments/replies. That has led me to believe that thisdiscussion with you is a useless "merry-go-round". I apologize to Tinker and others on this board for taking away from the original topic.

For the record, nowhere have I stated that anyone should "take their business elsewhere". I don't think that anyone can find that portion inmy conversation ....??? I have stated clearly that you have a choice to either purchase that particular shoe, or not. There are many other Nikes to choose fromthat will suit your taste/liking or athletic activity. It would be much appreciated if people wouldn't twist other people's words around.
 
As a token of my apology to everyone for deviating from the original topic, I give you Tinker Hatfield's "formula" for shoe design. I asked himto personally "break it down" so that I may share it with the rest of you Tinker fans. Enjoy!


"Design, in general, is a process of solving problems and making good
decisions. Most people think its mostly about style and aesthetics but I
can assure you that its far more than that.

Before I start designing I create a long list of criteria. Criteria can
include performance needs, such as how much traction and stability the
shoe should have and how much weight needs to be removed. Criteria can
also include price, delivery dates and consumer profile. The list can
often be 2 or 3 pages long and it is actually like a treasure map. If
you look at it carefully enough it tells a story about how to design the
shoe.

As the design starts to materialize design decisions are usually
measured against the criteria list and hopefully it all starts to make
sense and look good. Other design input can come from outside
inspiration, other people and athletes or just plain old personal bias.

Understanding these issues and having the ability to blend it all
together in an artful and modern way is the secret to finishing off the
design."

Tinker
 
one of the best designers, wow, i never knew he did so many kicks. and he owns the patents..i wonder if he gets residual checks of all the older kicks he didthat are being retro'd. imagine if the shoe buisness was like the music industry. he gets some money for every airmax that is sold, even if it was a pennyfor each shoe. thats paper.
 
Tinker just told me that he is still working on many projects but to keep an eye out for the next Roger Federer campaign, including a cool "viral ad"that should help Roger become more known to the American youth audience.

I can't divulge anymore then this because he requested me not to. I'll leave it at that.
 
wow, Tinker working on tennis stuff again? was he a part of the Zoom Vapor series?
 
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