- Sep 30, 2008
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BETTER THAN YOUR FAVORITE MC.
Why do some dudes have problems dethroning legends?
- Thread in 'Music' Thread starter Started by thebachellor,
- Start date
BETTER THAN YOUR FAVORITE MC.
- Aug 8, 2006
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Not better than S. Carter.
- Oct 9, 2007
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I completely co-sign The Bachellor. Its like their top 5 already has 4 occupied spots
- Sep 30, 2008
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Originally Posted by sStutter
Not better than S. Carter.
Jay and Nas are my two favorite MCs. Their respective careers have far surpassed BIG's in certain categories, off the strength of their longevityalone.
But as far as the total package, strength and ease of delivery combined with supreme lyricism, voice, mass appeal, unique delivery, daring flows and andseveral other talent based factors...they can't touch BIG.
15 years later...and where is Nas or Jay's "One More Chance"? Their "BIG Poppa"? Their story telling track as accessible and popularas "Warning"? On what track have they totally switched up their flow and style and experimented as much with vocalization and unique delivery as BIGdid on "What's Beef" and succeeded at the same level? His R&B and Reggae collabos...all classic. Have you heard Jay's attempt at a reggaerecord
AND THIS IS ALL IN THE SPACE OF 3 YEARS!!! 11 YEARS LATER AND DUDES CAN'T CATCH UP OR INNOVATE AT THE LEVEL BIGGIE WAS...MY DUDEWAS LITTERALLY SPEEDING UP THE EVOLUTION OF HIP-HOP MUSIC WITH ALMOST EVERY VERSE. HE RAISED THE BAR OF EXCELLENCE FOR THE ARTFORM AND HIS PEERS HAD NO CHOICEBUT TO FOLLOW SUIT. DID JAY AND NAS INFLUENCE BIG'S MUSICAL STYLE OR VICE VERSA?
Come on now...
And if I think BIG is the GOAT its because I don't know Hip-Hop or feel sorry for him?.....F_ outta here.
- Jun 1, 2008
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Jay Z fans have this resentment for BIG I neva understood . . . Its basically the +### the OP is talkin about except its a bunch of blabbin idiots usingBIG's untimely death against him as if he commited suicide or something . . . THOSE are the muh ****as hip hop as a whole can do without . . .
- Oct 15, 2007
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I agree with the bachellor...but somebody explain to me what it means to be the BEST rapper or GOAT. If different people like different aspects of the rapgame, how can their ever be a clear cut number 1?
If somebody based their #1 on having the best flow, Wayne (or Andre 3000) would be their goat, if a dude was basing it on punchlines lloyd banks would be theirgoat, if a dude was basing it super stupid #@#@, their goat would be Soulja Boy.
As far as influence goes, nobody will ever impact rap the way pac did, he was like the rap Martin Luther King Jr. There will never be another one. He may nothave had the witty punchlines but dude spit everything raw and from the heart. That's why I put dude as my goat because I feed off that passion he put inhis lyrics. If somebody didn't agree, it would be argued to the death but I would definitely understand.
If somebody based their #1 on having the best flow, Wayne (or Andre 3000) would be their goat, if a dude was basing it on punchlines lloyd banks would be theirgoat, if a dude was basing it super stupid #@#@, their goat would be Soulja Boy.
As far as influence goes, nobody will ever impact rap the way pac did, he was like the rap Martin Luther King Jr. There will never be another one. He may nothave had the witty punchlines but dude spit everything raw and from the heart. That's why I put dude as my goat because I feed off that passion he put inhis lyrics. If somebody didn't agree, it would be argued to the death but I would definitely understand.
- May 14, 2005
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15 years later...and where is Nas or Jay's "One More Chance"? Their "BIG Poppa"? Their story telling track as accessible and popular as "Warning"? On what track have they totally switched up their flow and style and experimented as much with vocalization and unique delivery as BIG did on "What's Beef" and succeeded at the same level? His R&B and Reggae collabos...all classic. Have you heard Jay's attempt at a reggae recordProbably his worst song ever. Where is their double album that can sniff the brilliance of "Life After Death"?
that beng said (and Im not arguing BIG's greatness, cuz I feel he's the goat everytime I go thru his catolog), those songs mentioned areenhanced because of his death, you cant deny that. It makes you hear the music different almost, they turn into anthems on a different level due to thenostalgia you get hearing the songs, mixed with his legacy, etc. If Nas or Jay woulda been murdered before they were tuned out/pushed into the"pioneer" stage by fans/age, certian songs in thier catolog woulda been put on a pedestal 10x higher than they already are (If I Ruled The World,Cant Knock The Hustle, etc), which is what happened to Pac and Big's catolog...
- Apr 24, 2008
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Music is opinionated
/thread
/thread
- Aug 14, 2007
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Yeah a lot of people say some type of !!%! to fit-in.
Like when people say "2pac was going to change the world if he didn't die" that's one of those cliches that somebody started and a bunch ofclowns repeat it because they think it gives them credibility. The only reason that !!%! flies is because the majority of the people they say this stuff tobelong in the same category, so they think it makes them look knowledgeable about rap if they agree.
Honestly, the !!%! is sickening. This is the reason why Lil Wayne has sold so many cd's....because these most people can't build their own opinionabout music, they gotta go with what everybody else thinks is cool. It all starts with the radio, the mainstream !!%!.
Like when people say "2pac was going to change the world if he didn't die" that's one of those cliches that somebody started and a bunch ofclowns repeat it because they think it gives them credibility. The only reason that !!%! flies is because the majority of the people they say this stuff tobelong in the same category, so they think it makes them look knowledgeable about rap if they agree.
Honestly, the !!%! is sickening. This is the reason why Lil Wayne has sold so many cd's....because these most people can't build their own opinionabout music, they gotta go with what everybody else thinks is cool. It all starts with the radio, the mainstream !!%!.
- Sep 30, 2008
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that beng said (and Im not arguing BIG's greatness, cuz I feel he's the goat everytime I go thru his catolog), those songs mentioned are enhanced because of his death, you cant deny that. It makes you hear the music different almost, they turn into anthems on a different level due to the nostalgia you get hearing the songs, mixed with his legacy, etc. If Nas or Jay woulda been murdered before they were tuned out/pushed into the "pioneer" stage by fans/age, certian songs in thier catolog woulda been put on a pedestal 10x higher than they already are (If I Ruled The World, Cant Knock The Hustle, etc), which is what happened to Pac and Big's catolog...Originally Posted by EzFlash26
15 years later...and where is Nas or Jay's "One More Chance"? Their "BIG Poppa"? Their story telling track as accessible and popular as "Warning"? On what track have they totally switched up their flow and style and experimented as much with vocalization and unique delivery as BIG did on "What's Beef" and succeeded at the same level? His R&B and Reggae collabos...all classic. Have you heard Jay's attempt at a reggae recordProbably his worst song ever. Where is their double album that can sniff the brilliance of "Life After Death"?
True indeed.
A lot of the current sentimets attached to these songs is nostalgia and reflection of BIGs life and what could have been....but if you look back to the timethat these tracks were released, while the artisits were still alive....the buzz and love behind these tracks "BIG Poppa + One More Chance" wereunparalleled. Joints were in every club, on every radio station, comedians were doing skits about them, they were at the top of every video countdown, femalesloved them and dueds loved them equally cause they could get ({}) off them and enjoy the music at the same time.
These two songs off of his debut album can stand next to the soul tunes of Marvin, Teddy and Al Green. These are our versions ofour parents git. BIG got his LL on, without comprising his street persona or lyricsim. There really aren't any other Hip-Hop singles that can compare.Those two BIG songs were crossover, mega-hits, with supreme lyricism, that can appeal to anyone and will forever stand the test of time as examples of greatsmooth Hip-Hop.
Jay closest attempt was "Excuse me Miss" and Nas don't even got a track to compare.
- Jun 1, 2008
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Wait a minute you don't think Pac would've changed the world?? Lets be serious, he was one of the most influential PERSON (regardless of profession) ofthis past generation . . . He wasn't under Federal Investigation for no reason . . . His influence was crazy . . .
As far as BIG death maybe playing a role in "Big Popa" or "One More Chance" being more heralded, remember those were both top 3 singles onthe Billboard charts ("Warning" was the B-Side to "Big Poppa" so it also is credited as a top 5 hit), Nas has never had a top 10 single(solo atleast) and Jay didn't have his first till his 3 or 4th album . . .
It doesn't matter how you judge hip hop, if your a Billboard chart watcher, BIG and Pac's influence is there ("Keep Ya Head Up" made it to#12, "Dear Mama" #
I mean weather it was street $##% or deep $##% they made amazing records that were respected by hip hop heads, and the Billboardcharts . . . Its usually one or the other (also look at the amount of BIG singles from LAD that charted EXTREMELY well under the circumstance, had he beenaround to promote it, it would've sold JUST as much if not more . . . so when ninjas talk about his death boosting him, I know they aren't chartwatchers, imagine a video for "Going Back To Cali" or "Notorious Thugs", the R Kelly record etc. All of those did well on the charts justoff of their radio buzz) . . .
As far as BIG death maybe playing a role in "Big Popa" or "One More Chance" being more heralded, remember those were both top 3 singles onthe Billboard charts ("Warning" was the B-Side to "Big Poppa" so it also is credited as a top 5 hit), Nas has never had a top 10 single(solo atleast) and Jay didn't have his first till his 3 or 4th album . . .
It doesn't matter how you judge hip hop, if your a Billboard chart watcher, BIG and Pac's influence is there ("Keep Ya Head Up" made it to#12, "Dear Mama" #
- Jan 17, 2007
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- 1,763
...The way Salt "shoops", and how to sell records like Snoop.
Oops.
Young rap fans are idiots that over estimate their knowledge and the value of their opinions.
- May 14, 2005
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True indeed.
A lot of the current sentimets attached to these songs is nostalgia and reflection of BIGs life and what could have been....but if you look back to the time that these tracks were released, while the artisits were still alive....the buzz and love behind these tracks "BIG Poppa + One More Chance" were unparalleled. Joints were in every club, on every radio station, comedians were doing skits about them, they were at the top of every video countdown, females loved them and dueds loved them equally cause they could get ({}) off them and enjoy the music at the same time.
These two songs off of his debut album can stand next to the soul tunes of Marvin, Teddy and Al Green. These are our versions of our parents git. BIG got his LL on, without comprising his street persona or lyricsim. There really aren't any other Hip-Hop singles that can compare. Those two BIG songs were crossover, mega-hits, with supreme lyricism, that can appeal to anyone and will forever stand the test of time as examples of great smooth Hip-Hop.
Jay closest attempt was "Excuse me Miss" and Nas don't even got a track to compare.
yea hol up, Im not sayin Big Poppa/One More Chance/Warning/Hyptonize wasnt the biggest records when they dropped and obviously going down as classic as timepassed whether he was alive or not (thought I had that in there), the biggest records out at that time. I was saying that the way we view & hear thosesongs were affected and elevated by his death. They went from being great records to celebrated, and Im not sayin thats wrong, cuz thats how it should be imo,and its ignorant-minded in our culture have to wait for a N' to die before we feel comfortable to really give them the recognition/love they deserve....butthats just the reality of %%%!.
And yea doe, about the "BIG not having to compromise" and etc, I mean, that was his lane from the jump tho, that was a huge part of what made himwhat he is. But just like the 98% of rappers havent captured that feel in those records on the level BIG did, BIG never had a Street Dreams Remix, If I RuledThe World, Gave You Power, Heaven, Black Girl Lost, etc (I could go thru Common's catolog and few others and find songs BIG wouldnt be able to capture).Everyday Struggle & Your Nobody is the closest joint prolly.
Like Em said, there really isnt no goat, there is too many categories and aspects to compare. BIG was perfect at making the music in the laneshe played, but he wasnt perfect.
As far as BIG death maybe playing a role in "Big Popa" or "One More Chance" being more heralded, remember those were both top 3 singles on the Billboard charts ("Warning" was the B-Side to "Big Poppa" so it also is credited as a top 5 hit), Nas has never had a top 10 single (solo atleast) and Jay didn't have his first till his 3 or 4th album . . .
It doesn't matter how you judge hip hop, if your a Billboard chart watcher, BIG and Pac's influence is there ("Keep Ya Head Up" made it to #12, "Dear Mama" #I mean weather it was street $##% or deep $##% they made amazing records that were respected by hip hop heads, and the Billboard charts . . . Its usually one or the other (also look at the amount of BIG singles from LAD that charted EXTREMELY well under the circumstance, had he been around to promote it, it would've sold JUST as much if not more . . . so when ninjas talk about his death boosting him, I know they aren't chart watchers, imagine a video for "Going Back To Cali" or "Notorious Thugs", the R Kelly record etc. All of those did well on the charts just off of their radio buzz) . . .
When it come to %%%! like what I was sayin to Haze, I could less give a %!%% about about a billboard chart, honest to g that didnt cross my mind until youbrung it up. Nay you know Im very familar with numbers. Thats the reason he's heraleded as bringing back the East moreso than Nas (and Wu), cuz he did iton the mainstream level, so thats a card you dont even have to play, we all know that. We was talkin bout how his music is percieved now in our community overtime.
RR Anthem was one of the lowest charting singles of X career, but thats by far his biggest song inside hiphop and arguablly the biggest song by a non-Detroitrapper in my city. N' charts wasnt/aint in the equation.
- Mar 29, 2008
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- Mar 29, 2008
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Just curious but how old is this guy TheBachellor?
- Sep 30, 2008
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I hear what you saying Flash and I do agree with those points.
Thats the flipside of the coin. Every artist takes their own personality and experiences and builds on it ... so no 2 artists are really going to produce thesame art. But Jay and Nas have tried to make songs for the chicks (moreso Jay) time and time again...but they can't come close Franky.
But as far as the criteria of what the majority of rap fans find entertaining and ill....I think BIG was at the top of most of those categories. Some _s arejust too polarizing to be labeled as the G.O.A.T.
A lot of hip-hop heads automatically shut out MCs like Nas and Com because of their socially conscious tip but even backpackers had mad love for BIG (morsewith RTD) because of the raw hip-hop in the music. He could do the Redman thing "The What", he could get on his Cool J "One More Chance"tip or he could go the ultra gangster lyrical route and do it all at a level that was years ahead of his time.
"I mean its hard being young from the slums eating five cent gums not knowing where your meal is coming from".....
To me lines like that....s_ that spoke to the hoods harsh realities, without preaching.... were just as effective at social commentary as anything that Nas orCommon could ever say.
Im a conscious dude myself....but when homie said "sterotypes of a black male misunderstood...and its still all good"...in the context of thatsong.....that was some of the most poignant s_ I have ever heard/felt to this day.
Thats the flipside of the coin. Every artist takes their own personality and experiences and builds on it ... so no 2 artists are really going to produce thesame art. But Jay and Nas have tried to make songs for the chicks (moreso Jay) time and time again...but they can't come close Franky.
But as far as the criteria of what the majority of rap fans find entertaining and ill....I think BIG was at the top of most of those categories. Some _s arejust too polarizing to be labeled as the G.O.A.T.
A lot of hip-hop heads automatically shut out MCs like Nas and Com because of their socially conscious tip but even backpackers had mad love for BIG (morsewith RTD) because of the raw hip-hop in the music. He could do the Redman thing "The What", he could get on his Cool J "One More Chance"tip or he could go the ultra gangster lyrical route and do it all at a level that was years ahead of his time.
"I mean its hard being young from the slums eating five cent gums not knowing where your meal is coming from".....
To me lines like that....s_ that spoke to the hoods harsh realities, without preaching.... were just as effective at social commentary as anything that Nas orCommon could ever say.
Im a conscious dude myself....but when homie said "sterotypes of a black male misunderstood...and its still all good"...in the context of thatsong.....that was some of the most poignant s_ I have ever heard/felt to this day.
- Apr 24, 2005
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Biggie is %@#@@!# wack, B.
He stole his whole style from Lil Cease and the Snakes, B.
Go get me a water B.
He stole his whole style from Lil Cease and the Snakes, B.
Go get me a water B.
- May 26, 2008
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