Why don't more pull hitters bunt against the shift?

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by Durden7

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by Durden7

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Bunting implies you don't believe in your ability

Incredibly ignorant.

Holy cow.

You really are a baseball moron, huh?

I have said this many times if bunting only make sense if you don't believe you are capable of scoring. The numbers don't lie, none of your baseball poetry about the value taking one for the team and the complexities of the emerald chess board.

I don't want my best hitter bunting EVER. You pay Adam Dunn, Justin Morneu, or Mark Texeria for a reason.

You pay your hitters to help your team produce runs and win. If bunting helps your team achieve those goals then damnit, you have them bunt.

Youre one of those "baseball stat" guys. Ugh.... sickening.

You really are a moron about baseball though.

You know nothing about me, so please spare me the arrogance.

If you tell Adam Dunn to bunt, somebody who has very little to no experience with bunting, it's not guaranteed to get past the pitchers, they could pop itup or bunt it to the wrong side, or a slow plodding guy like Dunn and a lot of power hitters won't beat out the throw. So you are risking and out to gain asingle. Because it is a risk, it is not guaranteed.

I would rather let Dunn hit, I am risking getting out but my a maximum yield is greater he could hit a double or a homer, why remove that part of his game whenI don't have too.

If you are a power hitter I see no situation in which I will allow you to bunt you can employ your "sickening"(how absurd

) small ball tactics and I will simply score more runs than you will.

Manufacturing runs is important if your team is not good enough to hit, good teams have no need to be bunting.

 

[kiddin like jason]

If you tell Adam Dunn to bunt, somebody who has very little to no experience with bunting, it's not guaranteed to get past the pitchers, they could pop it up or bunt it to the wrong side, or a slow plodding guy like Dunn and a lot of power hitters won't beat out the throw. So you are risking and out to gain a single. Because it is a risk, it is not guaranteed.
I did not suggest sending someone up there who does not work on it to try and get a bunt single.

Manufacturing runs is important if your team is not good enough to hit, good teams have no need to be bunting.

You're a fine source of comedy sometimes.

 

[mez 0ne]

Exactly, if the guy is a poor bunter (which is sad) nobody would ask him to bunt in the first place.

Manufacturing runs is important if your team is not good enough to hit, good teams have no need to be bunting.


That's the most ridiculous statement yet.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by Kiddin Like Jason

If you tell Adam Dunn to bunt, somebody who has very little to no experience with bunting, it's not guaranteed to get past the pitchers, they could pop it up or bunt it to the wrong side, or a slow plodding guy like Dunn and a lot of power hitters won't beat out the throw. So you are risking and out to gain a single. Because it is a risk, it is not guaranteed.

I did not suggest sending someone up there who does not work on it to try and get a bunt single.

Manufacturing runs is important if your team is not good enough to hit, good teams have no need to be bunting.

You're a fine source of comedy sometimes.


I don't see whats funny about logic, trading outs for bases does not make sense.

Out>>Base.

Unless you literally believe that your hitters are guaranteed outs, and that the other team will not score why do you trade that out for a base?

No matter which way you slice it, it does not make sense.


Stuff like that only starts to matter in the playoffs when the quality of pitching goes up and small sample size lends it's self to randomness.

 

[mez 0ne]

9th inning man on 1st and 2nd no outs, down by 1 run vs a top closer (both guys reached on broken bat bloops)....you don't bunt them over?

In regards to the shift, I remember when a team played an exaggerated shift on delgado, and he bunted to the 3rd base side and crawled to first base easily.

2nd time up the defense played him straight up because of it, and he pulled a pitch to the right side for a double.

How is bunting in that situation a BAD thing?

 

[kiddin like jason]

No matter which way you slice it, it does not make sense.
Why do teams still do it?

 

[ooiron manoo]

Manufacturing runs is important if your team is not good enough to hit, good teams have no need to be bunting.

These guys disagree....

Small ball

. Bunting, hustling, moving the runners over, aggressivebaserunning....

PS- Didn't have the heart to post Scioscia in his Angel gear

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by Kiddin Like Jason

No matter which way you slice it, it does not make sense.

Why do teams still do it?
and teams still think Mark Prior's mechanics are perfect, baseball is a funny sport full of "common knowledge".

In the words of pitching coach Tom House, there is no such thing as common knowledge, only information that has been repeated enough times that people nolonger question it. At one point the world was flat but now...

Originally Posted by Mez 0ne

9th inning man on 1st and 2nd no outs, down by 1 run vs a top closer (both guys reached on broken bat bloops)....you don't bunt them over?

In regards to the shift, I remember when a team played an exaggerated shift on delgado, and he bunted to the 3rd base side and crawled to first base easily.

2nd time up the defense played him straight up because of it, and he pulled a pitch to the right side for a double.

How is bunting in that situation a BAD thing?

Again as the manager I believe my team is not capable of scoring, and only 1 run will win the game, and my pitcher will shut down the other team,then it makes more sense.

I saw cito gaston make Marco Scutaro bunt like in the 4th inning up 4 runs, that I don't believe in.

 

[carolinatarheels4040]

A lot of the stuff Osh Kosh is saying here are basic MoneyBall principles and make perfect sense. You can manufacture runs without giving up outs if yourplayers have the right skill set.

 

[kiddin like jason]

And what have Moneyball principles and the A's ever really accomplished?

 

[in yo nostril]

because if they had enough skill to bunt they would probably have enough skill to hit a ground ball through that huge gap on the other side of the infield

 

[scuse7]

I don't think its about thinking your hitters can't hit, it might just be a good idea...

 

[dlo13]

This thread is awesome.

 

[CP1708]

Kiddin Like Jason wrote:

---

And what have Moneyball principles and the A's ever really accomplished?


I've been askin this for years now..........still waitin on the answer.



I agree with the bunt angle. I can see MAYBE why you wouldn't do it if you were the 5 hitter and there was already an out or something and the bottom halfof your lineup sucked. I could see why that guy wouldn't want to bunt.

But if you're in the 3 spot, leading off, or just one out, and you can get on easily with a simple roller past the pitcher, you gotta do that.

However,

There are consequences. See Carlos Zambrano bunting for a basehit in front of Soriano, and pulling a hammy.

 

[dublbagn]

bunting is a lost art these days.....and it takes finesse to bunt, most of these guys just clobber the ball....

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by Kiddin Like Jason

And what have Moneyball principles and the A's ever really accomplished?

cheap owners and an tiny payroll have more to do with that then anything.
The Boston Red Sox hired Bill James(the original stat guy) and Theo Epstein a stat guy and suddenly they start winning championships.

Stuff like bunting makes more sense in the playoffs when the quality of pitching goes up and closer are more involved in every game, and the small sample sizelends it's self to randomness and luck.

 

[651akathepaul]

Originally Posted by SHUGES

Bunting is a lost art KLJ.

Let's be real, how many guys per team are able to lay down a good bunt?

QFT.

 

[itsaNYthing]

Who did they put that shift on for?

 

[CP1708]

2 separate times in today's game, the Cubs bunted a runner over and scored on base hits both times.

No bunt = no run scored on either hit chief.