Will science eventually replace religion?

[futuremd]

Sorry but gmo food ,Monsanto food is not good you gotta be an idiot or a completely dense to not see its harsh effects on people .The food industry has grown out of control and its harming people more than it is helping.

Monsanto is a conglomerate with many branches and many impacts. 

I dare you to show me what Monsanto produces at your local grocer. Point it out to me.

Are they screwing small farmers? Yes.

Are they shady businessmen? Yep. 

Do they ruin the taste of tomatoes? Sure:

But food production is a necessity...especially on our scale.

Do we need foods that resist diseases that would kill entire crops? Yes.

Do we need foods that resist efforts to transport them? Yes.

Do we need foods with higher yields so we can feed more? Yes.

So with every benefit of GMO there is a potentially unforeseen flaw.

Do you think they're TRYING to kill people off? 

I don't understand these nebulous comments that aren't directed at WHAT we're talking about here. 

There isn't anything wrong with being an educated consumer or knowing where your food comes from, but we're not going to get anywhere in this debate if we don't have a more tempered conversation about the benefits and negatives surrounding GMOs. 

Personally, I try to stay up on how my food is produced and where it comes from...but I can't fault that family of 4 for buying a pack of huge strawberries or the large bag of potatoes. 

People have to eat out here. 

 

[relli45]

Hopefully, you are not trolling or restating what's on conspiracy videos. Your argument is that science is open to change and that some scientists have ulterior motives with their research and that these facts should discredit science.

Science is continual process of analyzing and systematically trying to understand the world around us with a valid means of experimentation and proofs. Religion on the other hand is an end all tale that contains all truths needed to be known. Science does not equate religion. There are some similarity between the two in that both try to explain the cause and workings of the universe. But the biggest difference is that religion expresses this with sets of beliefs (opinions) rather than facts (can be logically verified through experience and observation). Another key difference is that religion purports a purpose or meaning for the universe. This is really a flawed conception considering you are essentially anthropomorphising the universe to fit humanity into, which you can see is just another example of belief/faith.

Although morality is important for a functioning society, it doesn't necessarily play an important role in science because science is concerned with facts rather than feelings and opinions of people. Science is continually growing body of facts that are tested time after time and until a contradiction arises that body of knowledge remains constant. Considering this, you can see that the morality of scientists have no bearing on science.

So, it is sillier to believe in a being that can't be acknowledged by sensory input rather than follow a man that is full of flaws and with ulterior motives but presents facts.

Facts?  Because they say they're facts?  What you have yet to realize is that these people are salesman trying to get you to buy theory's for creditability.  Some do it for profit, some do it for fame, some do it to prove that they didn't waste there time in school all those years, and some do it for all of the above.  

What facts have they come up with that help us.  They treat cancer by killing everything in your body and hopefully your body will outlast the cancer.  But what else.  Evolution?  So if that's real why are humans the only beings to evolve?  Why are there still monkeys?  Why didn't reptiles evolve?  They've stayed the same since the time of the dinosaurs.

The thread was probably made because of the latest discussions of religion being the cause of the demise of the world.  So people choose to believe in science instead as there religion.  If you look at it people believe in scientific theory over all else.  What would you call science to a person that believes in scientific articles over all else.  To me science is like one of those bogus hedge funds.  Everybody believes until it's time to cash in on the results, and then the truth is revealed that it was just letters and numbers on paper.

They're facts because someone told you they are you haven't seen or felt the evidence for yourself, but people still eat it up. That's the same way science nuts look at religion, right? 

So, silly is believing in theory(a guess) and facts that you haven't seen or felt for yourself.  If you think science isn't the biggest business out you need to check the government grants given world wide.  They'll say anything to keep that gravy train rolling. 

And, no those weren't conspiracy theory's from some whacked out website or youtube you where just to busy reading up on the Iphone to notice it in the news.  That's what science has become.

 

[memo]

hairline theory will replace religion and science

that's NT favorite thing to talk about already

 

[futuremd]

Hopefully, you are not trolling or restating what's on conspiracy videos. Your argument is that science is open to change and that some scientists have ulterior motives with their research and that these facts should discredit science.

Science is continual process of analyzing and systematically trying to understand the world around us with a valid means of experimentation and proofs. Religion on the other hand is an end all tale that contains all truths needed to be known. Science does not equate religion. There are some similarity between the two in that both try to explain the cause and workings of the universe. But the biggest difference is that religion expresses this with sets of beliefs (opinions) rather than facts (can be logically verified through experience and observation). Another key difference is that religion purports a purpose or meaning for the universe. This is really a flawed conception considering you are essentially anthropomorphising the universe to fit humanity into, which you can see is just another example of belief/faith.

Although morality is important for a functioning society, it doesn't necessarily play an important role in science because science is concerned with facts rather than feelings and opinions of people. Science is continually growing body of facts that are tested time after time and until a contradiction arises that body of knowledge remains constant. Considering this, you can see that the morality of scientists have no bearing on science.

So, it is sillier to believe in a being that can't be acknowledged by sensory input rather than follow a man that is full of flaws and with ulterior motives but presents facts.

Facts?  Because they say they're facts?  What you have yet to realize is that these people are salesman trying to get you to buy theory's for creditability.  Some do it for profit, some do it for fame, some do it to prove that they didn't waste there time in school all those years, and some do it for all of the above.  

What facts have they come up with that help us.  They treat cancer by killing everything in your body and hopefully your body will outlast the cancer.  But what else.  Evolution?  So if that's real why are humans the only beings to evolve?  Why are there still monkeys?  Why didn't reptiles evolve?  They've stayed the same since the time of the dinosaurs.

The thread was probably made because of the latest discussions of religion being the cause of the demise of the world.  So people choose to believe in science instead as there religion.  If you look at it people believe in scientific theory over all else.  What would you call science to a person that believes in scientific articles over all else.  To me science is like one of those bogus hedge funds.  Everybody believes until it's time to cash in on the results, and then the truth is revealed that it was just letters and numbers on paper.

They're facts because someone told you they are you haven't seen or felt the evidence for yourself, but people still eat it up. That's the same way science nuts look at religion, right? 

So, silly is believing in theory(a guess) and facts that you haven't seen or felt for yourself.  If you think science isn't the biggest business out you need to check the government grants given world wide.  They'll say anything to keep that gravy train rolling. 

And, no those weren't conspiracy theory's from some whacked out website or youtube you where just to busy reading up on the Iphone to notice it in the news.  That's what science has become.

Dammit man. 

 

[lobotomybeats]

Science replaced religion for me long ago, long before I actually understood that science was what had replaced religion.

 

[heshua]

the majority of this page is PuttyMD. It's amazing how you have time to type out these long rebuttals/answers/comments. I hope you put this much effort into your schooling so you actually become an MD. More power to you fam.

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

What facts have they come up with that help us.  They treat cancer by killing everything in your body and hopefully your body will outlast the cancer.  But what else.  Evolution?  So if that's real why are humans the only beings to evolve?  Why are there still monkeys?  Why didn't reptiles evolve?  They've stayed the same since the time of the dinosaurs.

wow, this is terribly ignorant.

 

[futuremd]

RELLI45:

This woman asked the SAME thing you did and here is a good response to that matter.

 

[wr]

wow, this is terribly ignorant.

Have you ever had someone close to you go through chemo?

srs question

 

[kiendienn]

when i was told people of different faith would go to hell. when i learned that after killing someone, i could confess my sin, and would be allowed into heaven.

as if i would want to spend eternity in a realm of "forgiven" murderers, rapists, and elitist bigots.

show me the path to hell, where all of the unloved, non-believers, and homosexuals are "condemned". where all are accepted.


if the world was like hell where all would be accepted, it would be a much better place.


science taught me to accept failure, but to never give up on my pursuit of curiosity. to not turn away anomalies and variables outside of accepted norms, but to embrace them as a gateway to further not only my knowledge but also my colleagues.

religion establishes norms and standards that its followers must abide by. it forces ridicule and sin on factors that can't be controlled (homosexuality). it forces close-minded thinking, stereotypes, and an archaic mentality. this is not the life i would want for anyone.

i appreciate religion for its philosophies, history, and literature, but I don't feel like it should be such a vital tool in dictating one's life. if we take a more active stance in volunteering, helping the community, and expanding our knowledge, these proactive roles will help our society a lot more than worshipping deities.

 

[futuremd]

wow, this is terribly ignorant.

Have you ever had someone close to you go through chemo?

srs question

Does it matter?

Chemo has saved and prolonged more lives than people would died without it.

Medicine isn't out to **** people over. I wish you all would grow up when you say crap like this.

Do you think oncologists enjoy seeing people go through this? Its real out here.

They're trying to make it possible for you to go to thanksgiving doing the BEST they can, and all you all can say is how "evil" science is.

Well damn if it bothers you so much go get a PhD in cancer biology and design some drugs OR go join a monastery and start praying for your cancer to subside.

Curing and addressing ailments is NOT easy. It never will be. But damn, society is TRYING. You don't get to just write off the progress of humanity because despite their intentions it doesn't go perfectly according to plan. 

 

[relli45]

FutureMD I don't even know where to start with you.

Have you ever met someone that makes things unessarly difficult?  That's you and science. 

I say you because well for starters the format that you put my first post in when you quoted it.  Why? For what?  Don't answer that.

You seem very intelligent.  You back your post up with a bunch of articles, but you don't seem like you have common sense tho.  How is pharmaceuticals not science?  How is a living corn crop not a host?  On that one alone you contradict your other post when you said, "do we need disease resist plants-yes".  How is the study of the earths environment not science?   From what I've heard either gonorrhea or syphilis is in you for life even after the antibiotics

To be honest I really don't like addressing you period.  Your one of those people that just can't compute laymans.  You need it to mean something more then what was said.  I hate dealing with people like that.  How could I be paranoid that crohns meds gave the homie two bad hips at the age of 30?  When they said that's whats the meds were going to do.  You show a elements chart that proves exactly what I said.  They tell you what the sun is by looking at it.  

I could go on about your post, but I got pot pie to eat.  I will give you this tho.  See how you reacted about science.  It seems to be to you what Christanity is to Christan's and what Islam is to Muslims.  How long will it be before people are killing because of there beliefs in science.  The differences is you believe in guesses.  Like I said before science hasn't giving us true evidence that has made a huge positive difference.  You came believe in the guessing game trial and error(in some cases means death), and I'll continue to believe in my imagany being.  But from someone standing in the middle we both look like nuts.  

 

[chuxndunx]

I think it will, but religion is an important part of humanity. I'm sure they'll come to a compromise.

 

[wr]

Does it matter?

Chemo has saved and prolonged more lives than people would died without it.

Medicine isn't out to **** people over. I wish you all would grow up when you say crap like this.

Do you think oncologists enjoy seeing people go through this? Its real out here.

They're trying to make it possible for you to go to thanksgiving doing the BEST they can, and all you all can say is how "evil" science is.

Well damn if it bothers you so much go get a PhD in cancer biology and design some drugs OR go join a monastery and start praying for your cancer to subside.

Curing and addressing ailments is NOT easy. It never will be. But damn, society is TRYING. You don't get to just write off the progress of humanity because despite their intentions it doesn't go perfectly according to plan. 

.

Hell yes it matters.

What's the point of living after chemo when your quality of life is drastically reduced?

It's a catch 22

I've had to watch people die after chemo.

Have you ever watched someone slowly deteriorate?

Especially someone close to you?

chemotherapy is just barbaric to me and the next decade of scientific cancer treatment will show?

You might as well let people die rather than charge them to give them death.

 

[futuremd]

Does it matter?

Chemo has saved and prolonged more lives than people would died without it.

Medicine isn't out to **** people over. I wish you all would grow up when you say crap like this.

Do you think oncologists enjoy seeing people go through this? Its real out here.

They're trying to make it possible for you to go to thanksgiving doing the BEST they can, and all you all can say is how "evil" science is.

Well damn if it bothers you so much go get a PhD in cancer biology and design some drugs OR go join a monastery and start praying for your cancer to subside.

Curing and addressing ailments is NOT easy. It never will be. But damn, society is TRYING. You don't get to just write off the progress of humanity because despite their intentions it doesn't go perfectly according to plan. 

.

Hell yes it matters.

What's the point of living after chemo when your quality of life is drastically reduced?

It's a catch 22

I've had to watch people die after chemo.

Have you ever watched someone slowly deteriorate?

Especially someone close to you?

chemotherapy is just barbaric to me and the next decade of scientific cancer treatment will show?

You might as well let people die rather than charge them to give them death.
 

Your entire argument is flawed based on the premise you assert that chemo never works.

Chemo works A LOT.

In fact, it works EVEN BETTER with some of the drugs we have now. 

Treating cancer is still kinda crude, but that doesn't mean that we should just give up.

If we listened to people like you, we would have just stopped right before doing surgery because "it hurts too much"

Humanity's progress needs moments like this to progress.

On top of that, you'd be foolish to think that we PURPOSELY want to kill people out here. Pain management is a big deal, but don't act like its any easier on the doctors themselves. 

 

[the natural mystic]

It's very scary how some of you guys really think science is a religion. That is pure ignorance. It is not a belief system, it is not a way of life, there is no faith. There is no good or evil and it doesn't tell you how you should live. It's not finite like religion. This is a very simple concept to grasp. Science is based on facts, exploration and infinite possibilities and the testing of those possibilities.

 

[Master Zik]

The sheer ignorance and arrogance to bolster it in the last 3 pages chill my brain.

Dudes in here need to educate themselves instead of making dumb statements and asking stupid questions. "Why do we still have monkeys if evolution is true?", now we got ppl not saying science is a religion because of the ppl that adhere and follow it but science is equal to religion now because it has done just as bad as those who believe in a religion, "why is there world hunger" ugh :x

 

[relli45]

Does it matter?

Chemo has saved and prolonged more lives than people would died without it.

Medicine isn't out to **** people over. I wish you all would grow up when you say crap like this.

Do you think oncologists enjoy seeing people go through this? Its real out here.

They're trying to make it possible for you to go to thanksgiving doing the BEST they can, and all you all can say is how "evil" science is.

Well damn if it bothers you so much go get a PhD in cancer biology and design some drugs OR go join a monastery and start praying for your cancer to subside.

Curing and addressing ailments is NOT easy. It never will be. But damn, society is TRYING. You don't get to just write off the progress of humanity because despite their intentions it doesn't go perfectly according to plan. 

Yes it does matter.

This proves that you should be wrote off.  Your all biased articles and no real life experience or common sense.  Hospitals are huge business not saying they about screwing people over.  But yea they are.  If they don't have product to push they make no money.  There product gives you hope.  If you don't have hope in them you ain't going to them.  My point is they push out meds prematurely for profit.  Yea they might get rid of this or that but at what cost(side-effect).  In other cases they sell you false hope in something they're not even sure of. 

Bottom line if you haven't had daily convo's with a doctor to see it for yourself then to speak on it.

Here is an idea go talk to a doctor about how his outlook on medicine has changed since his/her residency.

They are no different then Romney it's like there trying to be confident in there words, but you can see in there face that they really don't believe in what they're telling you.  That is when it comes to patients and concerned family members of patients 

 

[wr]

Yes it does matter.

This proves that you should be wrote off.  Your all biased articles and no real life experience or common sense.  Hospitals are huge business not saying they about screwing people over.  But yea they are.  If they don't have product to push they make no money.  There product gives you hope.  If you don't have hope in them you ain't going to them.  My point is they push out meds prematurely for profit.  Yea they might get rid of this or that but at what cost(side-effect).  In other cases they sell you false hope in something they're not even sure of. 

Bottom line if you haven't had daily convo's with a doctor to see it for yourself then to speak on it.

Here is an idea go talk to a doctor about how his outlook on medicine has changed since his/her residency.

They are no different then Romney it's like there trying to be confident in there words, but you can see in there face that they really don't believe in what they're telling you.  That is when it comes to patients and concerned family members of patients 

Truth

I know people that own pharmacies and I know doctors as well that can attest to this. Also why everyone in the industry is kinda holding their breath to see what changed are gonna be made come 2013 with the way the entire medical establishment is funded.

If you are in the business of making money, you legally have a fiduciary duty to hold the interest of the business at highest regards even over yourself and your own interests. That is the basics of business, economics and capitalism.

In the case of hospitals you make money at the expense of peoples lives. Whether your products heal, or kill. Ain't no way around it.

 

[relli45]

The sheer ignorance and arrogance to bolster it in the last 3 pages chill my brain.
Dudes in here need to educate themselves instead of making dumb statements and asking stupid questions. "Why do we still have monkeys if evolution is true?", now we got ppl not saying science is a religion because of the ppl that adhere and follow it but science is equal to religion now because it has done just as bad as those who believe in a religion, "why is there world hunger" ugh

Enlighten us ******s then.  Why is that a dumb question, and what is the answer to it?  Logically what makes it a stupid question?

 

[futuremd]

FutureMD I don't even know where to start with you.

Have you ever met someone that makes things unessarly difficult?  That's you and science. 

I say you because well for starters the format that you put my first post in when you quoted it.  Why? For what?  Don't answer that.

None of this makes any sense. I reply accordingly. If anything, its to make it easier on you. Grow up. 

You seem very intelligent.  You back your post up with a bunch of articles,

Thanks.

but you don't seem like you have common sense tho.  How is pharmaceuticals not science? 

You can't blame those who misuse big pharma aside from the gains we get from drugs and how much our lives have been improved.

How is a living corn crop not a host?

Different things thrive in different vectors.

  On that one alone you contradict your other post when you said, "do we need disease resist plants-yes".  How is the study of the earths environment not science?   From what I've heard either gonorrhea or syphilis is in you for life even after the antibiotics

I didn't say environmental studies wasn't science. I said that there are gains from improving our agricultural  capabilities. as well as unforeseen consequences. 

Its about the process of learning about both sides and moving forward.

Syphillis can be cured. If you don't take the drugs to completion or if you have a different strain, then its possible.

To be honest I really don't like addressing you period. 

well don't.

Your one of those people that just can't compute laymans. 

or you arent versed in making reasonable statements. 

 You need it to mean something more then what was said.   I hate dealing with people like that. 

well don't.

How could I be paranoid that crohns meds gave the homie two bad hips at the age of 30?  When they said that's whats the meds were going to do.

blame his pharmacists and their understanding of drug interaction. Unless you think they're just out to hurt people. In which case you should just skip your next flu shot. 

You show a elements chart that proves exactly what I said.  They tell you what the sun is by looking at it.  

No sir.

You are wrong.

We know what the suns composition is based on our understanding of NUCLEAR FUSION AND SPECTROPHOTOMETRY. This isn't some stuff people just make up to sound smart. 

I could go on about your post, but I got pot pie to eat

But you haven't said anything of value. 

.

  I will give you this tho.  See how you reacted about science.  It seems to be to you what Christanity is to Christan's and what Islam is to Muslims. 

What? 


You're saying things that are FACTUALLY inaccurate and untrue.

The thing is, I can prove every thing i'm saying. Religions don't and can't. 

Thats a major distinction.

How long will it be before people are killing because of there beliefs in science. 

Maybe tomorrow.

Thing is, science doesn't demand belief. Science corroborates evidence and use that evidence to reach conclusions. Its as close as we can get to objectivity. 

The differences is you believe in guesses. 

We call that statistics. 

 Like I said before science hasn't giving us true evidence that has made a huge positive difference. 

...what?

Carbon dating is just a liberal conspiracy, right? 

 You came believe in the guessing game trial and error(in some cases means death), and I'll continue to believe in my imagany being.  But from someone standing in the middle we both look like nuts.  

 

[kiendienn]

.
Hell yes it matters.
What's the point of living after chemo when your quality of life is drastically reduced?
It's a catch 22
I've had to watch people die after chemo.
Have you ever watched someone slowly deteriorate?
Especially someone close to you?
chemotherapy is just barbaric to me and the next decade of scientific cancer treatment will show?
You might as well let people die rather than charge them to give them death.

nobody's forcing you to go to the hospital to receive treatment. lay in bed and pray. I'm sure God will care about one single person enough to answer their prayers to prevent the prolific propagation of malignant cells. God will care enough to dive into your cells to prevent the inhibition of proapoptotic agents such as PRAS40.

Religious people come to the hospital because they need help. Doctors assess the situation and give them their options from treatment plans, its effectiveness, and what is financially feasible. These patients then decide what they want to follow through with. Nobody forced them into the hospital to sign the papers for their treatment.

I watched my aunt go through chemo, she slowly deteriorated, and then she lived. She has an awesome life surrounded by her family and loved ones I can't say that her quality of life has drastically reduced, but moreso increased as she better cherishes life as it was taken for granted. I honestly wish you told your loved one, "you might as well let people die rather than charge them to give them death". You're pretty much stating that you'd rather them not have a chance at all in recovering and living, but much rather see them die. I'm sure they must be really close to you.

Chemotherapy is "barbaric" because that's one of few viable solutions when cancer reaches that stage. Current research and study has made huge progress in determining proapoptotic agents, how they're induced, and inhibited. How cancer cells manipulate other cells and how they proliferate. Once there is a better understanding, better treatment and less invasive options can be provided.

The main issue here is when people thank God but blame the doctor.

 

[kiendienn]

ANDDDD I'm done trying to explain science to a bunch of one-dimensional thinkers that already have the idea cemented that it's pretty much a conspiracy.

This was a waste of time.


Good luck, futuremd (aka putty?).

 

[futuremd]

Does it matter?

Chemo has saved and prolonged more lives than people would died without it.

Medicine isn't out to **** people over. I wish you all would grow up when you say crap like this.

Do you think oncologists enjoy seeing people go through this? Its real out here.

They're trying to make it possible for you to go to thanksgiving doing the BEST they can, and all you all can say is how "evil" science is.

Well damn if it bothers you so much go get a PhD in cancer biology and design some drugs OR go join a monastery and start praying for your cancer to subside.

Curing and addressing ailments is NOT easy. It never will be. But damn, society is TRYING. You don't get to just write off the progress of humanity because despite their intentions it doesn't go perfectly according to plan. 

Yes it does matter.

This proves that you should be wrote off.  Your all biased articles and no real life experience or common sense.  Hospitals are huge business not saying they about screwing people over.  But yea they are.  If they don't have product to push they make no money.  There product gives you hope.  If you don't have hope in them you ain't going to them.  My point is they push out meds prematurely for profit.  Yea they might get rid of this or that but at what cost(side-effect).  In other cases they sell you false hope in something they're not even sure of. 

Bottom line if you haven't had daily convo's with a doctor to see it for yourself then to speak on it.

Here is an idea go talk to a doctor about how his outlook on medicine has changed since his/her residency.

They are no different then Romney it's like there trying to be confident in there words, but you can see in there face that they really don't believe in what they're telling you.  That is when it comes to patients and concerned family members of patients 

The practice of medicine isn't perfect. 

There is money to be made...BUT there is a simple question here.

Do you want hospitals and healthcare to help people or is "science" (as you assert) just some other "religion" that doesn't help anyone?

There are problems with insurance companies and competition between drugs, but the end goal is ALWAYS the patients. The money made is a tangential issue. 

If this is the case, don't say assinine statements like "science doesn't help anyone" if you know damn well it does. We can talk about problems in the practice of medicine. I'm fine with that. But don't come in here saying that all drugs, and all doctors, and all hospitals don't give a damn about their patients.

You just sound foolish. 

 

[wr]

How can I be wrong for saying chemo is barbaric when we all admit that it's something like the best the medical establishment can do at the time?

That implies that chemo is not enough and is not the end all be all cure or treatment for cancer.

I swear the blind allegiances some of you dudes have with these entities is astounding.

You find it okay to praise sub par procedure because it's the best we got.

That's just sad