2013-2014 NBA Thread - IND @ WAS and OKC @ LAC on ESPN

[100027]

 
the cavs are a good example, they had the first pick this year could have picked a decent player like oladipo but randomly went with bennett

thats not random, thats the cavs GM being an idiot

they were fully able to pick oladipo who is turning out to be a solid player

now if they didnt "tank" and got say the 7th pick, they would not have the option of picking oladipo

cavs, knicks, twolves, michael jordan seem to NEVER end up picking good players regardless of where they are drafting, stop using their stupidity as an example for why tanking doesnt work

Agree with your sentiment, but you're wrong about the Knicks.  They haven't tanked enough, and they've actually drafted pretty well in the spots they've had, outside of Jordan Hill.

 

[datznasty]

Big market teams seem to undervalue the draft, because they think every FA wants to come play for them. If it weren't for the rule on trading consecutive first round picks, the Lakers, Knicks, and Nets would be up to trading 2099 draft picks.

 

[sea manup]

 

 
most of the time tanking doesnt work, if it did then there would be no bad nba teams

but when you have a trash team with no developing young players, not tanking NEVER works

thats the difference, one side you have a small chance of landing a franchise player and on the other side you have no chance

using the article's bobcats as an example, they tanked for AD and they had a 25% chance of getting him. a 1 in 4 chance of getting what they wanted

unfortunately for them the pick went to the hornets who had a 13.7% chance and the bobcats had to settle with the second pick

but the tanking, while it didnt work out, was absolutely worth having the highest chance of getting that first pick

its the same reason offences work to get players in their most efficient spots, you always want to give yourself the highest chance of succeeding but even if you do that sometimes it wont work out.

IF the bobcats were a little luckier, they would have AD and the 3rd best team in the east right now after signing al jeff this off season

I really agree with you for a bunch of reasons that I don't want to get in to right now.  For one, it doesn't make sense to declare "tanking doesn't work" based on the fact that losing teams most often continue to lose...  There are a whole number of outside factors that keep bad teams down, including bad management.

It's also considering tanking in a vacuum for bad teams when tanking is actually one not-ideal option that's part of a range of not-ideal options for talentless teams.

I just want to say Henry Abbott is the classic "dumb writer who thinks he's smart".

and of course it also depends on the current roster, if you have a guy like KD or Lebron in his 2nd to 3rd year obviously you're not going to make up random reasons to sit them out so you can tank and get a good draft pick.

but if you're a team like this years lakers or celtics that doesnt have that one key guy that you can build around then there is no reason not to tank. 

on our roster right now the only players that are under contract next season are kobe, nash and sacre. we have a team option on marshall but everyone else is free to walk if a team gives them enough money. we have no teams to develop, our superstar is old, our other HOFer is very old. we need a young star to attract free agents and lead our team for the next 10 years.

 

[sea manup]

 

 
the cavs are a good example, they had the first pick this year could have picked a decent player like oladipo but randomly went with bennett

thats not random, thats the cavs GM being an idiot

they were fully able to pick oladipo who is turning out to be a solid player

now if they didnt "tank" and got say the 7th pick, they would not have the option of picking oladipo

cavs, knicks, twolves, michael jordan seem to NEVER end up picking good players regardless of where they are drafting, stop using their stupidity as an example for why tanking doesnt work

Agree with your sentiment, but you're wrong about the Knicks.  They haven't tanked enough, and they've actually drafted pretty well in the spots they've had, outside of Jordan Hill.

true, they are the prime example of why you cant build a team without good draft picks. yeah they have gotten decent guys late but they have always needed a star player out of the draft, because of the lack of a superstar draft pick they end up trying things like signing marbury and zbo and giving away half their team for melo.

the last time they were actual contenders it was because of the first pick of the 1985 draft that got them ewing

 

[johnnyredstorm]

The Eddy Curry trade killed us. We sent Joakim Noah and Lamarcus Aldridge to the Bulls man.

 

[sea manup]

Big market teams seem to undervalue the draft, because they think every FA wants to come play for them. If it weren't for the rule on trading consecutive first round picks, the Lakers, Knicks, and Nets would be up to trading 2099 draft picks.

its a very dumb way to go about doing things, especially these days when there are hardly ever any big name free agent signings (except for dwight, even then a sign and trade to the Ws was being discussed)

lebron was a sign and trade

bosh was a sign and trade 

chris paul was a trade

melo was a trade

all three of the teams you mentioned are already lacking draft picks and dont have a bunch of good young assets, we dont have anyone to give up if we ever wanted to get a key free agent in a sign and trade deal.

the clippers traded for chris paul, but a huge reason chris paul was excited to come to LA is because he got to play with the recent draft pick and rising star blake griffin. without blake, cp3 is stuck on the hornets of LA and wants out

 

[sea manup]

The Eddy Curry trade killed us. We sent Joakim Noah and Lamarcus Aldridge to the Bulls man.

you cant be successful in the nba without valuing the draft 

 

[HIM]

His point was illogical. Obviously, if a guy is exceptionally effective it doesn't matter how form looks. Blake's post game should never be compared to the effectiveness of Reggie Miller's ugly three point release because Blake's post game is unproven. Again dude is proving a lot of folks wrong, let him cook without making these outlandish comments.

you can't be serious. He never said Blake's post game is like Reggie Miller's 3 point shot. I'm amazed that you can't see what he was trying to say.

Portland finally coming back down to earth. Where do you guys see them finishing? I say 5th...maybe 6th.

 

[essential1]

Big market teams seem to undervalue the draft, because they think every FA wants to come play for them. If it weren't for the rule on trading consecutive first round picks, the Lakers, Knicks, and Nets would be up to trading 2099 draft picks.

The reason that rule is in place is because of the Cavs, ironically enough.

Traded #1 pick to the Lakers.. Ended up being James Worthy.

Sam Perkins, Derek Harper, Detlef Schrempf & Dennis Rodman.


Players selected with picks traded by Stepien in the 80s.

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

you can't be serious. He never said Blake's post game is like Reggie Miller's 3 point shot. I'm amazed that you can't see what he was trying to say.

Portland finally coming back down to earth. Where do you guys see them finishing? I say 5th...maybe 6th.

I never said that. I said there's no point in bringing up Reggie's name when it comes to Blake's post game effectiveness. Again, obviously if Blake's post game is proven and effective then right, who cares what it looks like? The intent on the guy's orgininal post was irrelevant, trying to bring up Reggie's ugly form because Blake hasn't proven anything yet with his post game.

 

[sosmoney23]

His point was illogical. Obviously, if a guy is exceptionally effective it doesn't matter how form looks. Blake's post game should never be compared to the effectiveness of Reggie Miller's ugly three point release because Blake's post game is unproven. Again dude is proving a lot of folks wrong, let him cook without making these outlandish comments.

you can't be serious. He never said Blake's post game is like Reggie Miller's 3 point shot. I'm amazed that you can't see what he was trying to say.

Portland finally coming back down to earth. Where do you guys see them finishing? I say 5th...maybe 6th.

He's definitely one of those types that likes to argue for no reason. I was hoping you wouldn't respond back to his clown *** lol


Edit: Random but Sullinger has been ballin lately! Been rooting for him since his college days so I'm happy to see him do well in the league

 

[sea manup]

the NY jordan hill draft pick wasnt the worst, im guessing they wanted a big so they went with hill over derosen. out of the bigmen in that draft taken after 8th jordan hill turned out to be about average.

but the knicks ended up trading him for 80 year old tmac so yeah... not the smartest choice

rockets used hill to get fisher + a draft pick and used that draft pick to get harden

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

He's definitely one of those types that likes to argue for no reason. I was hoping you wouldn't respond back to his clown *** lol


Edit: Random but Sullinger has been ballin lately! Been rooting for him since his college days so I'm happy to see him do well in the league

Ah, reverting to name calling on the internet

 

[champcruthik]

Ah, reverting to name calling on the internet

No worries, MMA brotha.

 

[Scarborough]

derozan is ballin but his handle cheeses me.

btw has the NBA said anything about that Lowry call yet?

 

[datznasty]

Russell Westbrook is targetting Feb 20 (home game against the Miami Heat) for his return. Brave as hell, I'd wait til a home game against an easier team, but I'm not mad. He is already back practicing and working out hard in front of media members (his early return the first time wasn't a huge shock because every time they tweeted practice photos he was in the background plus Reggie telling media members about him dunking on people so this time they go out of their way to avoid that it seems and keep his progress a secret better).

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Russell Westbrook is targetting Feb 20 (home game against the Miami Heat) for his return. Brave as hell, I'd wait til a home game against an easier team, but I'm not mad. He is already back practicing and working out hard in front of media members (his early return the first time wasn't a huge shock because every time they tweeted practice photos he was in the background plus Reggie telling media members about him dunking on people so this time they go out of their way to avoid that it seems and keep his progress a secret better).

Is there any chance they would move him to save money?

 

[johnnyredstorm]

the NY jordan hill draft pick wasnt the worst, im guessing they wanted a big so they went with hill over derosen. out of the bigmen in that draft taken after 8th jordan hill turned out to be about average.

but the knicks ended up trading him for 80 year old tmac so yeah... not the smartest choice

rockets used hill to get fisher + a draft pick and used that draft pick to get harden

I think we went with Hill because Steph Curry and a couple of other 1s were gone at that time. He's developed into a solid role player, but never got a chance in NY. Wasted pick as usual.

 

[sea manup]

 

the NY jordan hill draft pick wasnt the worst, im guessing they wanted a big so they went with hill over derosen. out of the bigmen in that draft taken after 8th jordan hill turned out to be about average.

but the knicks ended up trading him for 80 year old tmac so yeah... not the smartest choice

rockets used hill to get fisher + a draft pick and used that draft pick to get harden

I think we went with Hill because Steph Curry and a couple of other 1s were gone at that time. He's developed into a solid role player, but never got a chance in NY. Wasted pick as usual.

yeah steph was the pick before you guys, seemed like they didnt really have a plan in place for whoever they ended up picking

another fun fact about that draft, the twolves took rubio 5th, jonny flynn (PG) 6th, curry went 7th

they also took ty lawson 18th and traded him to denver

the wolves in 09 is not an example of why tanking doesnt work, its an example of why dumb drafting doesnt work

 

[Trillmatic90]

yeah steph was the pick before you guys, seemed like they didnt really have a plan in place for whoever they ended up picking

another fun fact about that draft, the twolves took rubio 5th, jonny flynn (PG) 6th, curry went 7th

they also took ty lawson 18th and traded him to denver


the wolves in 09 is not an example of why tanking doesnt work, its an example of why dumb drafting doesnt work

Hindsight is always 20/20 though. I remember people were really high on Flynn.

 

[lightweight champion]

That Steph Curry pick was the best moment in NBA Draft history!

 

[sea manup]

 

yeah steph was the pick before you guys, seemed like they didnt really have a plan in place for whoever they ended up picking

another fun fact about that draft, the twolves took rubio 5th, jonny flynn (PG) 6th, curry went 7th

they also took ty lawson 18th and traded him to denver


the wolves in 09 is not an example of why tanking doesnt work, its an example of why dumb drafting doesnt work

Hindsight is always 20/20 though. I remember people were really high on Flynn.

yeah but you dont pick a pg literally a pick after you just picked a pg

 

[datznasty]

Russell Westbrook is targetting Feb 20 (home game against the Miami Heat) for his return. Brave as hell, I'd wait til a home game against an easier team, but I'm not mad. He is already back practicing and working out hard in front of media members (his early return the first time wasn't a huge shock because every time they tweeted practice photos he was in the background plus Reggie telling media members about him dunking on people so this time they go out of their way to avoid that it seems and keep his progress a secret better).

Is there any chance they would move him to save money?

No, unless he doesn't want to resign in 2017 before he reaches free agency. Reggie is good, great at times, but not nearly reliable or consistent enough and basically a mini Russ from a few years ago, some of the good and more of the bad. In fact, he's even worst about looking off KD than Russ has always been accused of being.

KD's January was awesome, but it'd be a bit foolish to assume he can really continue to do that especially in a deep playoff run.

If I'm another team I run an extra defender at KD early, especially when he brings it up himself, make sure you stay home on Serge in the midrange, and now you force us to rely on Thabos, Kendricks, Jeremys, Perrys, and of course Fisher.

 

[Trillmatic90]

yeah but you dont pick a pg literally a pick after you just picked a pg

Yea that was definitely a dumb move.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

yeah steph was the pick before you guys, seemed like they didnt really have a plan in place for whoever they ended up picking

another fun fact about that draft, the twolves took rubio 5th, jonny flynn (PG) 6th, curry went 7th

they also took ty lawson 18th and traded him to denver


the wolves in 09 is not an example of why tanking doesnt work, its an example of why dumb drafting doesnt work

Hindsight is always 20/20 though. I remember people were really high on Flynn.

Flynn could've fulfilled his potential if he didn't get hurt or have to learn the triangle. I was high on him after that 6 overtime game against UConn.