Official White Privilege Thread

[gwap]

 
a lot of insecurity in this thread.

explain?

 

[airedweezy]

Unless your post is being sarcastic as well and totally went over my head I was just joking with my post and your getting overly worked up here, but hey, people asked him where he lives or is from to try and understand his way of thinking, he can't answer that simple question for whatever reason.

You my sir got me you take this W I actually thought you were serious. These threads are tricky to navigate sometimes.


I owe you an apology sorry

 

[cedric ceballos]

You my sir got me you take this W I actually thought you were serious. These threads are tricky to navigate sometimes.


I owe you an apology sorry

its cool man. no hard feelings here 

 

[deleted]

Saying "they're ignorant to the context of their racism" is not the same as saying "their racism is excusable".

 

[hand2handking]

 

racial dynamics =/= context of racism

thats why i said every discussion about race is about white people, because they can only discuss it from their side

understanding how racism affects black people is different from recognizing racism and the benefits of white privilege

and its not a lack of understanding, its simply a lack of willingness to either fully accept or acknowledge their racism 

if someone hates black people, im not going to expect them to take the time to study institutional racism because it would conflict with their ideologies

conversely, im not going to go on kkk website to try and understand why it is exactly they think what they think

 

 

Saying "they're ignorant to the context of their racism" is not the same as saying "their racism is excusable".

so if theyre "ignorant to the context", they are ignorant to the ways in which racism adversly affects POC

but despite not fully understanding what it is that they are doing, they still maintain their racist

views

so let me to put this in another way:

a soldier (a racist) is given an order to shoot a child (is brought up with racist ideology)

if he shoots (performs an act of racism, passive or otherwise),

he is ignorant to the effect of his pulling the trigger (ignorant to the adverse effects of racism on POC)

yet he will remain a soldier (continue with his racist ideology)

despite not knowing in full the effect of his action on the child? (not knowing that racism is a detriment to peoples lives?)

and he is not excused, but this is just an explanation of why he pulled the trigger (racism isnt excused, but somehow being blinded by what is obvious to millions of other people makes it....?)

if its not an excuse then what is it?  i hardly believe an institution of 400 years is just the blind leading the blind 

 

[celticspride34]

Being ignorant to how racism effects people doesn't make you a racist...

 

[hand2handking]

"hey ******, i didnt know youd get upset i called you that, im ignorant to how my words affect you people"

"oh, he just called him a ******, why would he be upset by that? im ignorant to black peoples struggles so la di da let me continue my white life"

 

[gwap]

Racial dynamics is the context of racism.

How can you understand racial dynamics without understanding racism?

How can you understand racism without understanding racial dynamics?

The soldier analogy is terrible because soldiers throughout history have been a tangible example of being a part of and following an ideology they don't fully grasp.

You are too caught up in your emotional perspective to acknowledge the obvious. Even the professor you quoted alluded to this. But I guess you want to feel angry and seek blame so anything that appears to absolve blame you get defensive.that's just subjectivity showing itself in your argument.

 

[gwap]

Being ignorant to how racism effects people doesn't make you a racist...

quote the statement you are responding to.

 

[gwap]

"hey ******, i didnt know youd get upset i called you that, im ignorant to how my words affect you people"

"oh, he just called him a ******, why would he be upset by that? im ignorant to black peoples struggles so la di da let me continue my white life"

Upsetting a person by using a slur doesn't indicate you understand d the full context of racial dynamics.

To the second part I have No idea What you are insinuating.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Being ignorant to how racism effects people doesn't make you a racist...

"hey ******, i didnt know youd get upset i called you that, im ignorant to how my words affect you people"

"oh, he just called him a ******, why would he be upset by that? im ignorant to black peoples struggles so la di da let me continue my white life"

Also not all ignorance is forced/intentional ignorance. I know this especially growing up in a predominantly white suburb. There are some things that don't have a context in your life until someone/something gives it context. It's hard to know the struggle of the modern day of a black person if you don't know any black people especially if you're neck deep
In middle class white America. What makes them racist is what they do/think/act after they realize that racism is thriving in America.

 

[deleted]

"hey ******, i didnt know youd get upset i called you that, im ignorant to how my words affect you people"

"oh, he just called him a ******, why would he be upset by that? im ignorant to black peoples struggles so la di da let me continue my white life"

You're speaking about racism as if it's always as blatant as using an ethnic slur.

 

[hand2handking]

 

racial dynamics is not the context of racism

what is the racial dynamic of being enslaved, hung from a tree? hosed or chased with dogs?  what component of race relations led to that?

"understanding racial dynamics" is not a requirement to be a racist. it is something that people who want to be decent humans do, not racists.

"understanding racism" does not require "understanding racial dynamics".  you dont have to understand the PIC, the media's portrayal of blacks etc to understand that you hate someone because of the color of their skin.

the soldier analogy is on point, because even in those cases where soldiers acted inhumanly and were "only following orders", they were still duly punished as that is not a defense for their own personal responsibility and accountability.  in this case, im holding racists accountable.

 

even if you have no awareness of "the struggle of black people", you are aware that you have no awareness.  

if youre white, and you dont ever see black people, like they are a rare animal or something, then you are aware that youre surrounded by white people.  

what they take for granted is the feeling of safety they feel from that, and how that feeling is bestowed from heaven upon them.  

as you said, what they do after the realization is what makes them racist, the perpetuation.

 

i was simplifying but as i said originally, passive or not

it doesnt have to be a racial slur, it can be overt or covert

i dont need to make an example of every situation in which racism occurs that someone could somehow be blind to it

 

[celticspride34]

Being ignorant to how racism effects people doesn't make you a racist...

"hey ******, i didnt know youd get upset i called you that, im ignorant to how my words affect you people"

"oh, he just called him a ******, why would he be upset by that? im ignorant to black peoples struggles so la di da let me continue my white life"

Also not all ignorance is forced/intentional ignorance. I know this especially growing up in a predominantly white suburb. There are some things that don't have a context in your life until someone/something gives it context. It's hard to know the struggle of the modern day of a black person if you don't know any black people especially if you're neck deep
In middle class white America. What makes them racist is what they do/think/act after they realize that racism is thriving in America.

This is what I mean...

When I lived on Vermont, I didn't know a single black person or person of color... And that's because they're weren't any around... The census results for the area I lived in literly said 99.9% white... Vast majority of these people have never had extended interactions with people who aren't white... It is/was such an isolated area, and those interactions just weren't possible...

These are the type of people who are ignorant of how racism effects people... On HS, kids white kids would go up to white kids, and go "what up ninja?"... They're emulating what they see in black culture and are using the word as compliment for other people... My mind was blown once I saw that happening...

That's what I mean by ignorant... These kids weren't/aren't racist, yet they're using racial terms/slurs as greetings...

 

[hand2handking]

so now we've come around to gentrification  self segregation and culture appropriation 

u grew up wherever you did and never once wondered why you never saw black people

even though you see them on tv and music

its ok for them to be entertaining, just not in your vicinity

there arent underlying reasons why some areas are predominately and majority white? and those areas just happen to be affluent as if by magic?

white people using N as a term of endearment amongst each other is NOT racist? 

 

 

[RIP sleazyy]

There was probably no black people because, as he said, it was an isolated area with 99.9% white people

When I go to my cousins crib I never expect to see white people anywhere near the area

 

[hand2handking]

 
[h1]What Is Cultural Appropriation and Why Is It Wrong?[/h1]

 
By Nadra Kareem Nittle



Popular leather fringe purses are often modeled on traditional Native American medicine bags.  Jean G./Flickr.com

The United States has long been known as a melting pot and, more recently, as a salad bowl. Because people from hundreds of different ethnic backgrounds make up the nation’s population, it’s not surprising that at times cultural groups rub off on each other. Americans who grow up in diverse communities may pick up the dialect, customs and religious traditions of the cultural groups that surround them.

Cultural appropriation is  an entirely different matter, however. It has little to do with one’s exposure to and familiarity with different cultures. Instead, cultural appropriation typically involves members of a dominant group exploiting the culture of less privileged groups--often with little understanding of the latter’s history, experience and traditions. Accordingly, socially aware people tend to frown upon this phenomenon.

Are you guilty of cultural appropriation? Find out with this review of the issue, complete with a definition of cultural appropriation, examples of the trend and quotes about it.

Defining Cultural Appropriation

Susan Scafidi, a law professor at Fordham University, told Jezebel.com  that it’s difficult to give a concise explanation of cultural appropriation. The author of Who Owns Culture? Appropriation and Authenticity in American Law, defined cultural appropriation as follows:

“Taking intellectual property, traditional knowledge, cultural expressions, or artifacts from someone else's culture without permission. This can include unauthorized use of another culture's dance, dress, music, language, folklore, cuisine, traditional medicine, religious symbols, etc. It's most likely to be harmful when the source community is a minority group  that has been oppressed or exploited in other ways or when the object of appropriation is particularly sensitive, e.g. sacred objects.”

In the United States, cultural appropriation almost always involves members of the dominant culture (or those who identify with it) “borrowing” from the cultures of minority groups. African Americans, Asian Americans, Native Americans and indigenous peoples generally tend to emerge as the groups targeted for cultural appropriation. Black music and dance, Native American fashions, decorations and cultural symbols, and Asian martial arts and dress have all fallen prey to cultural appropriation.

Examples of Cultural Appropriation

“Borrowing” is a key component of cultural appropriation. In the 1950s, for example, white musicians borrowed the musical stylings of their black counterparts. Because African Americans weren’t widely accepted in U.S. society at that time, record executives chose to have white recording artists replicate the sound of black musicians. This led to musical forms such as rock-n-roll being largely associated with whites in spite of the fact that black musicians were pioneers of the artform. This move also had financial consequences, as many of the black musicians who helped pave the way for rock-n-roll’s success never saw a dime for their contributions to the music form.

In the late 20th century and early 21st century, cultural appropriation remains a concern. Musicians such as Madonna, Gwen Stefani and Miley Cyrus  have all been accused of cultural appropriation. Madonna, for instance, popularized the form of personal expression known as voguing, which began in black and Latino sectors of the gay community. Madonna has also used Latin America as a backdrop in a music video and appeared in attire with roots in Asia, as has Gwen Stefani who faced criticism for her fixation on Harajuku culture from Japan.

In 2013, Miley Cyrus became the pop star most associated with cultural appropriation. During recorded and live performances, the former child star began to twerk, a dance style with roots in African-American culture. Writer Hadley Freeman of The Guardian  particularly took issue with  Cyrus’ tweeking at the MTV Video Music Awards in August 2013. “On stage as well as in her video she used the tedious trope of having black women as her backing singers, there only to be fondled by her and to admire her wiggling derriere,” Freeman pointed out. “Cyrus is explicitly imitating crunk music videos and the sort of hip-hop  she finds so edgy – she has said, bless her,  that she feels she is Lil' Kim inside  and she loves ‘hood music’ – and the effect was not of a homage but of a minstrel show, with a young wealthy woman from the South doing a garish imitation of black music and reducing black dancers to background fodder and black women to exaggerated sex objects.”

Why Cultural Appropriation Is a Problem

Cultural appropriation remains a concern for a variety of reasons. For one, this sort of “borrowing” is exploitative because it robs minority groups of the credit they deserve. Art forms, music forms, etc., that originated with minority groups come to be associated with members of the dominant group. As a result the dominant group is deemed innovative and edgy, while the disadvantaged groups they “borrow” from continue to face negative stereotypes that imply they’re lacking in intelligence, creativity and more. In addition, when members of a dominant group appropriate the cultures of others, they often reinforce stereotypes about minority groups.

When singer Katy Perry  performed as a geisha at the American Music Awards in November 2013, she described it as an homage to Asian culture. Asian Americans disagreed with this assessment, declaring her performance “yellowface.” The Wall Street Journal’s  Jeff Yang said  that her performance did not celebrate Asian culture but misrepresented it entirely. He found it particularly problematic that Perry dressed as a geisha to perform the song “Unconditonally” about a woman who pledges to love her man no matter what.

“The thing is, while a bucket of toner can strip the geisha makeup off of Perry’s face, nothing can remove the demeaning and harmful iconography of the lotus blossom from the West’s perception of Asian women — a stereotype that presents them as servile, passive,” Yang wrote, “and as Perry would have it, ‘unconditional’ worshippers of their men, willing to pay any price and weather any kind of abuse in order to keep him happy.”

Nico Lang, a guest blogger for the Los Angeles Times, pointed out in a post  that cultural appropriation highlights the power imbalance that remains between those in power and those who’ve been historically marginalized. As such, a member of a dominant group can assume the traditional dress of a minority group for a Halloween party, a music performance and so on. Yet, they remain blissfully unaware of the roots of such dress and the challenges those who originated have faced in Western culture.

 

[celticspride34]

I moved to Vermont when I was 12 from Rhode Island... As I spent more time there, I wasn't shocked that weren't black people, I was shocked there was people... Tiny, tiny town based upon lumber and tourists for the most part... The popular been dwindling for years because people kept moving away... There is nothing in that area to make people move there... It has nothing to do with race, it was a dying community... No one will move to an area like that, there's nothing there for them...

Are people supposed to put up signs say "Black people welcome here"?... There's areas of the country people of color or anyone just don't move to... It doesn't mean the people that live there are racist... There's tons of variables that factor in to where people move... I suspect the economy and weather have had much more impact on people deciding not to move to areas like that, as opposed to the racial diversity of the population...

And IMO, no malice was intended when the kids used the word... These are kids who don't have any interactions with actually black people... They here the word, and think it's cool...

 

[hand2handking]

[h1]  Our 21st-century segregation: we're still divided by race[/h1]
Reniqua Allen
[h3]Even now, there are two Americas: one for brown people, one for whites. The difference is that we choose it today[/h3][h3]  Often people 'self-segregate' by surrounding themselves with people who look like them. [/h3][h3]  [/h3][h3]

Many Americans don't want to admit it, but I'll say it: segregation is still around. Sometimes by design. And sometimes by choice.[/h3]
Let me be clear, this isn't the segregation of my parent's era. It's not a legally mandated and enforced system backed by public figures like former Alabama George Wallace, who famously said, "Segregation today. Segregation tomorrow. Segregation forever," to resounding applause, in 1963. The "whites only" signs have ceased to lurk over water fountains, bathrooms, and restaurant counters.

Yet, 21st-century segregation exists overtly in our school systems, communities, and prisons. It also permeates our society in ways we don't even realize.

We need to continue the conversation about the shocking segregation in our schools and neighborhoods. According to a study last year, 43% of Latinos and 38% of blacks go to schools where less than 10% of their peers are white.

But beyond that, we often fail to talk about how segregation impacts us personally. How it permeates not only many of our public and private institutions, but American culture at large. We less easily talk about cultural or social segregation, an area that we have control over, via the restaurants we patronize, the bars we drink at and the places where we worship.

It's time for us to face the reality that for many Americans, even if we live and work around "diversity", our best friends and spiritual leaders, the people we invite into our lives and homes, often look like we do, reinforcing a de facto segregation. This social and cultural segregation isn't restricted to "uneducated" people living in the country. It is equally prominent in environments where smart, educated people are supposed to "know better".

People who have studied race, spent months abroad in India or Africa, tasted the best fufu and mofongo, read Ralph Ellison, James Baldwin and Pablo Neruda, and who may even have black "friends" or lovers, still too often manage to have a community that doesn't reflect diversity in their broader city or nation.

It's understandable that we don't hear much about this type of divide. It's too personal for many, who often don't want to be seen as racist. It's a hard phenomenon to quantify. Talking about the numbers of blacks in jails or in a school system is easier than confessing that the last time you confided in your Latino "friends", Britney Spears was at the top of the charts.

Yet, some data can point us in the right direction – like looking at the number of interracial friendships (15% of whites say they have a lot of friends of different races), and the number of interracial marriages (at 15% as well), and the number of discrimination suits at entertainment venues. But we mainly have to rely on anecdotal information to talk about cultural segregation. Articles on social segregation in cities like Chicago, Washington, DC, Atlanta, and even New York, pepper online message boards, and crop up in the unlikeliest of places. Even New York Times food critic Sam Sifton weighed in on the issue, more honestly than many, stating:

"New Yorkers are accustomed to diversity on sidewalks and subways, in jury pools and in line at the bank. But in our restaurants, as in our churches and nightclubs, life is often more monochromatic."

But just talk doesn't seem to change much.

My knee-jerk reaction is to blame racism and discrimination. To complain about all the times that I've felt odd being the only brown face in the crowd. To get mad about how all the television shows that have casts that look like my family are segregated to the so-called "cable ghettos". To get angry at all the bouncers who say they have a racial quota in hotspots. And to wonder why all the books I like are sitting in a "separate" section … until of course, I realize, I'm guilty of many of the same offenses: I segregate, too.

I think about all the nights I plan out that were based on the racial and ethnic make-up of the crowd I am going out with. If I am hanging with black friends, I likely go to an all-black establishment, where I know my friends will like the music, and the mating potential. If I am hanging out with an all-white crowd, I immediately cross all black locations off the list, not wanting anyone to feel uncomfortable. Instead, I relegate myself to being one of a few blacks in the crowd. If it's going to be a night with mixed company, the venue would be more likely to be up for grabs. But an all-black locale still would probably be out of the question.

This isn't secret intel: many blacks, whites, Latinos, and Asians seem to stick to these same guidelines, too, particularly in New York City, America's supposed great melting pot. There are still two Americas: one for brown people and one for whites, and both are heavily segregated.

If our social worlds were more integrated, perhaps we would see it trickle down to the way we govern and the way we dispense justice. Having some sort of connection, a shared experience is the only way I believe that we can get politicians, police officers, and everyday citizens (see Robert Zimmerman's recent comments) to truly understand race.

It may seem silly to connect major state and federal policies to something as simple as a night on the town, but our experiences are shaped not just by legalese and policy, but also by understanding and interacting with each other. Segregation in the 21st century is not just about being legally and physically separated, but about a cultural separation that still feels like it divides more than it binds.

 

[gwap]

 
racial dynamics is not the context of racism

yes it is

what is the racial dynamic of being enslaved, hung from a tree? hosed or chased with dogs?  what component of race relations led to that?

Being enslaved and hung on a tree etc. is a symptom and expression of racism. That isn't the "context" of racism. The context of racism consists of the abstract ideas involving the existence, propagation, and execution/expression of racism within a society.

"understanding racial dynamics" is not a requirement to be a racist. it is something that people who want to be decent humans do, not racists.

exactly....the vast majority of racists don't understand the true racial dynamics of this country. This is the whole point I have been saying"

"understanding racism" does not require "understanding racial dynamics".  you don't have to understand the PIC, the media's portrayal of blacks etc to understand that you hate someone because of the color of their skin.

The vast majority of racists don't understand racism. I say this because how can you truly understand racism and still be a racist? Racists are people with skewed views of what is true and what is false.

How can a person who thinks black people are inferior understand racism. The historical context of racism shows that stereotypes and racial supremacy are not rooted in fact.

If a person knows that their beliefs are false.... they would not believe them. I believe most racists believe they are right.

How can racist believe they are right, when anybody who understands racism would know they are wrong?

the soldier analogy is on point, because even in those cases where soldiers acted inhumanly and were "only following orders", they were still duly punished as that is not a defense for their own personal responsibility and accountability.  in this case, im holding racists accountable.

Who is talking about punishment. Who said they are not accountable? I'm not in a court case. but if I was I would bring up that "law" is not necessarily the deciding factor on what is right and wrong. Otherwise you would agree that all punishments given by the Government are correct. And I don't think you want to go down that hole. (not supporting racists, but you are off on a tangent that isn't even a solid reference)

even if you have no awareness of "the struggle of black people", you are aware that you have no awareness.

I nominate this for the top smart dumb ***** statement of 2014..... Racists think they do know the struggle, and that's it our fault because we are lazy, dishonest, etc. If they were aware that they didn't know the struggle...they wouldn't believe the false information about the struggle. 

You think the a racist person doesn't actually believe their racist views? 

if you're white, and you don't ever see black people, like they are a rare animal or something, then you are aware that you're surrounded by white people.  

OK.... so..... ... being aware that there is not a large black population to you means what?

Possibilities:

1. You understand that you haven't been exposed to black culture so you don't believe anything about black culture until you have adequate experience in their community and culture before you make up your mind?. You understand racism, and are able to identify the dogmatic racist principles as false by definition.

2. You follow the dogmatic racist beliefs that are displayed/told to you and then believe untrue things about the race that you have no real experience with. 

one person understands one doesn't.

what they take for granted is the feeling of safety they feel from that, and how that feeling is bestowed from heaven upon them. 

exactly they take if for granted... they don't know what they have because it is normal for them... THIS IS MY POINT

as you said, what they do after the realization is what makes them racist, the perpetuation.

What are you talking about? You don't become a racist by only doing something after "realization". You become racist by having a racist disposition period.

i was simplifying but as i said originally, passive or not

OK...?

it doesn't have to be a racial slur, it can be overt or covert

OK...?

i don't need to make an example of every situation in which racism occurs that someone could somehow be blind to it

what are you talking about?

 

[hand2handking]

 

i see, you think racism is just an abstract idea.

you seem to think that racism is an ideology based on rationality

if you provide facts, all the racists would simply see the error of their ways

you seem to think that its implausible for people to simply believe in a system that is to their benefit to support/perpetuate

racism is more than just understanding "racial dynamics"

people are being killed because of the color of their skin

no one is thinking about racial dynamics other than black and white

lynching people as a symptom of racism? jim crow was just a symptom?

i brought up the soldier analogy to equate "law" with "morality"

its wrong to break the the law like its wrong to be immoral

therefore an illegal act by a soldier is equated to a racist committing to/ascribing to racism

i brought up the last part to demonstrate how unlinkely it is for a person to have never participated in/observed a racist act against someone or white privilege in effect

 

[gwap]

 
i see, you think racism is just an abstract idea.

you don't work well with understanding the nature of ideologies and abstract ideas.

This question doesn't make sense.

you seem to think that racism is an ideology based on rationality

What are you talking about? I said racists don't understand...

how can you be rational if you don't even understand the  context of your actions?

My argument is the complete opposite of this statement.

if you provide facts, all the racists would simply see the error of their ways

no. if racists accepted the facts they would see the error of their ways....

implausible for people to simply believe in a system that is to their benefit to support/perpetuate

It's entirely possible... but the rationality of the human mind makes it so very few people would be racist if everybody knew it was wrong. It is only the idea that the racist ideology is actually correct that makes it so easy to spread.

racism is more than just understanding "racial dynamics"

I said over and over again that racists tend to not understand racial dynamics. This question doesn't make any sense if it's aimed at me

people are being killed because of the color of their skin

symptom of racism

no one is thinking about racial dynamics other than black and white

what?

lynching people as a symptom of racism? jim crow was just a symptom?

Yes...in  the same way a runny nose is a symptom of a cold... its the displayed manifestation of a root cause.

i brought up the soldier analogy to equate "law" with "morality"

don't equate law with morality... especially when you live in a racist country where law has historical been at odds with morality, terrible analogy. terrible.

its wrong to break the the law like its wrong to be immoral

You don't work well with abstract ideas.... written law not a direct parallel to morality. 

therefore an illegal act by a soldier is equated to a racist committing to/ascribing to racism

so in the same way i can say that lynchings were not illegal therefore they were not immoral?

You don't work well with abstract ideas.

i brought up the last part to demonstrate how unlinkely it is for a person to have never participated in/observed a racist act against someone or white privilege in effect

If I observe a plane flying do i know how planes work? how much damage the plane is doing to the environment/global warming? History and implementation of airline economics and politics? the physics involveed in aeronautics?

I just know it flies.... such a small part of the whole concept of aerospace. It takes more than just seeing something to understand it.

 

[gamerg]

If she was black they woulda said 18 Year Old WOMAN..

But the Priviledge makes her a 18 year old "Teenager"

https://gma.yahoo.com/teens-cute-mu...-internet-184914313--abc-news-topstories.html

 

[hand2handking]

 i see, you think racism is just an abstract idea.
you don't work well with understanding the nature of ideologies and abstract ideas.

This question doesn't make sense.

 you seem to think that racism is an ideology based on rationality
What are you talking about? I said racists don't understand...

how can you be rational if you don't even understand the  context of your actions?

My argument is the complete opposite of this statement.

 if you provide facts, all the racists would simply see the error of their ways
no. if racists accepted the facts  they would see the error of their ways....

implausible for people to simply believe in a system that is to their benefit to support/perpetuate

It's entirely possible... but the rationality of the human mind makes it so very few people would be racist if everybody knew it was wrong. It is only the idea that the racist ideology is actually correct that makes it so easy to spread.
 

racism is more than just understanding "racial dynamics"

I said over and over again that racists tend to not understand racial dynamics. This question doesn't make any sense if it's aimed at me 

 people are being killed because of the color of their skin
symptom of racism

no one is thinking about racial dynamics other than black and white

what?

lynching people as a symptom of racism? jim crow was just a symptom?

Yes...in  the same way a runny nose is a symptom of a cold... its the displayed manifestation of a root cause.

 i brought up the soldier analogy to equate "law" with "morality"
don't equate law with morality... especially when you live in a racist country where law has historical been at odds with morality, terrible analogy. terrible.

 its wrong to break the the law like its wrong to be immoral
You don't work well with abstract ideas.... written law not a direct parallel to morality. 

therefore an illegal act by a soldier is equated to a racist committing to/ascribing to racism

so in the same way i can say that lynchings were not illegal  therefore they were not immoral?

You don't work well with abstract ideas.

 i brought up the last part to demonstrate how unlinkely it is for a person to have never participated in/observed a racist act against someone or white privilege in effect
If I observe a plane flying do i know how planes work? how much damage the plane is doing to the environment/global warming? History and implementation of airline economics and politics? the physics involveed in aeronautics?

I just know it flies.... such a small part of the whole concept of aerospace. It takes more than just seeing something to understand  it.

 

[gwap]

the only reason people are being killed is because of the color of their skin.  

the only racial dynamics at play is white killing black.  

Racism goes much further than just skin tone. If you studied it you would know that.

The racial dynamics are much more than just white killing black.  If you studied it you would know that

looking into why it is that white people feel the need to kill blacks, need to fear blacks, is pointless to me. 

This explains your lack of knowledge of the subject we are debating...

 yes and that root cause is hate, not a logically based ideology to which people ascribe because it is factual.  saying that things like jim crow and lynching are merely symptoms is downplaying the lives of people who suffered through those events.  

Never did I say that racism was factual. Never did I say racism was logical... who are these statements directed at?

"merely symptoms"? what is the logic behind your perception that the word "symptom" downplays an action?

I'm simply looking at the situation objectively and identifying aspects of racism..

If you studied racism you would understand this already.

 the same way its wrong to kill, its wrong to be racist

terrible analogy because it's not always wrong to kill...

 but that understanding is not necessary to sit on the plane and fly.  no one that "flies" is concerned with how the plane operates, like racists arent concerned with racial dynamics.

Exactly what i've been saying over and over and over again., racists don't understand racial dynamics.... that is my point... lol... you keep reiterating my point as though its a rebuttal.