America no longer world's largest economy

sea manup said:

i dont think its anyone's fault, the goal of any company is to maximize profit. maximizing profit is pretty much what america was built on.

capitalism is the reason europeans have been the dominant force in the world for the past ____ years, and is the main reason for china's rise to power today 

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Well it definitely put Europe where they are but, I personally think our consumerism is a strength and a weakness. It's putting a hamper on family values (Black Friday, Christmas, long business hours, work 40+ hours a week all take away from the home). If you look a most European nations now, they have grown a bit more conservative and mature on how they balance business with quality of life.

As for China, poverty, Communism,and noncontrol of local government corruption will hamper them sooner or later. Mark my words.

But sooooo much of their economy is just putting everyone else's products together....assembly. U.S. has much more global influence, economically, due to the magnitude of OUR products. Ever heard of a Chinese car? Or a chinese movie? Or a chinese entertainer? Or even a Chinese brand of any sort? Sure there are a few, but WE hold all of the consumer influence, don't get it twisted. China just whorz out cheap labor and that accounts for a HUGE part of their economy.

As a liberal, I am critical of my own Country's policies, both foreign and domestic. I am particularly critical of the US when we are contrasted with European countries.

I am thankful for China because it allows me to take a break from criticizing my own country. China is a terrible country, or rather its political elite and its political institutions are terrible. They make the US look progressive in a myriad of ways. China is more unequal, its police are more inhumane, its environmental protection are almost non existent, civil liberties non existent, most workers are treated horrendously, wealth and income are radically unequal. When contrasted with China, the US gets to look like a first world country, for a change.


Within this context, I am all in favor of keeping military spending high. I am unhappy with needless, endless and elective wars. I am tired of our civil liberties being eroded in the name of security. I am weary of the state refusing to be transparent because of imagined or exaggerated threats. However, I like a large military and military power for two liberal reasons.

The military is a jobs program, for soldiers, communities around military bases, for contractors and for those who research and develop arms and armaments. The military has acted as form of fiscal stimulus during economic downturns. The military stands as testament to the efficacy of government and to the ability of Keynesian public spending to mitigate recessions and depressions. I wish that we would be more forceful and remind conservatives of those two important facts whenever they praise the troops, US military power or national security. Conservatives should also be reminded that spending money on education, nutrition, other income supplements and infrastructure all support the military now and in the future.

The other reason why American liberals should include a powerful US military in their vision of a better America is the fact that an ascendent China could one day present an existential threat to our country. It is easy to yearn for pacifism and isolationism after the last twenty years of neoconservative foreign policy. It is even more difficult to argue that the US military can ever be a force for good in the light of the fact that we have used our power to torment and bully and manipulate the Global South for over a Century. However, great armies and fleets, when used for genuinely liberal ends have protected Americans at home and liberated people abroad. The victories in the Civil War, World War II and the Cold War were all good outcomes for America and for humanity, as a whole.

As bad as we are at home and abroad, China must never be allowed to be the World's preeminent global power. We can always find ways to govern ourselves and to use our military but in the grand scheme of things, the US and its allies need to maintain our current and lopsided and favorable balance of power.

Rexanglorum said:

We can always find ways to govern ourselves and to use our military but in the grand scheme of things, the US and its allies need to maintain our current and lopsided and favorable balance of power.

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Pretty much this.... we hold the vast majority of military capability,,, and aren't abusing it too bad...

I don't want to imagine a world where another country was in our place militarily 

AKsuited said:

 
But sooooo much of their economy is just putting everyone else's products together....assembly. U.S. has much more global influence, economically, due to the magnitude of OUR products. Ever heard of a Chinese car? Or a chinese movie? Or a chinese entertainer? Or even a Chinese brand of any sort? Sure there are a few, but WE hold all of the consumer influence, don't get it twisted. China just whorz out cheap labor and that accounts for a HUGE part of their economy.

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the difference between america and china is that america is highly reliant on labour in developing countries while everything in china is domestically produced

chinese brands dont feel the need to go global because they are already fighting for market share in the worlds biggest market, that's why you dont know about chinese brands/people and culture

GWAP said:

 
Pretty much this.... we hold the vast majority of military capability,,, and aren't abusing it too bad...

I don't want to imagine a world where another country was in our place militarily 

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I don't see the balance of power shifting in China's favor anytime soon especially as long as the current regime keeps up with their expansionist ambitions enough to continue isolating themselves from most of their neighbors. I doubt that the US would be the only country in opposition to Chinese hegemony and a Sinocentric Asia.

Rolaholic said:

 

GWAP said:

 
Pretty much this.... we hold the vast majority of military capability,,, and aren't abusing it too bad...

I don't want to imagine a world where another country was in our place militarily 

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I don't see the balance of power shifting in China's favor anytime soon especially as long as the current regime keeps up with their expansionist ambitions enough to continue isolating themselves from most of their neighbors. I doubt that the US would be the only country in opposition to Chinese hegemony and a Sinocentric Asia.

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This is very true.

They want power so bad they're pissing off everyone else in the region to get it.

It's one thing to play mama bird (and I use that term VERY loosely) like the US did with Latin America and the Caribbean,

It's another thing to proclaim you're the best and then start harassing your neighbors.  You win no friend's that way.

360waves said:

China is also making major moves in Africa. Many are marrying and having children with African women. Solidifying their roots and rights to land. But they too will fall and another one will take over.

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Damn they fixing to create a real Bushido Brown (yes I know bushido is Japanese)

sea manup said:

 
ironically "the american dream" is the reason america isnt #1 anymore

the same dream that lead to all the great innovations that caused america to be #1 is what is making americans feel too entitled to work the low end jobs that are outsourced to china

people complain about chinese people taking american jobs when they would never agree to work in the conditions that chinese workers work in

it takes hardship to get to the top and americans feel like they are too good to have to endure any hardship 

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I think most people prefer livable wages though. 

sea manup said:

 
ironically "the american dream" is the reason america isnt #1 anymore

the same dream that lead to all the great innovations that caused america to be #1 is what is making americans feel too entitled to work the low end jobs that are outsourced to china

people complain about chinese people taking american jobs when they would never agree to work in the conditions that chinese workers work in

it takes hardship to get to the top and americans feel like they are too good to have to endure any hardship 

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2014

still using manufacturing output to define economies.

sea manup said:

 

DaNiKeRhiNo said:

 

sea manup said:

exactly, there is nothing wrong with what the companies are doing

if americans want their jobs back from developing nations then they have to be willing to work in the conditions and next to no pay like their asian counterparts 

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I think it is the companies and customers faults but, I do agree with you for the most part. Same situation with the migrant jobs that are being "stolen".

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i dont think its anyone's fault, the goal of any company is to maximize profit. maximizing profit is pretty much what america was built on.

capitalism is the reason europeans have been the dominant force in the world for the past ____ years, and is the main reason for china's rise to power today 

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• china
   
• capitalism

pick one.

Drones said:

Biggie62 said:

Military welfare. Dwight Eisenhower warned the US citizens to be weary of the military machine within this country from taking over as he left office.


Well, these pro military senators and representatives have surely done exactly what Eisenhower predicted would happen and people are only now slowly waking up.

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The military propaganda extends to all levels of our society.  I'm not saying that these guys aren't brave and all that, but just look at our media and how pervasive the military commercials are.  The NBA does a week of pro-military stuff and the NFL does a month of it.   Army and Navy commercials run at all times, and in a disturbing trend they're starting to show these commercials as if they are First Person Shooter video games.  All of this is propaganda that benefits the military industrial complex.  Shoutout to Zero Dark Thirty.

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I'd rather have the military recruit then for there to be another draft. There are clear advantages and perks to joining the military. Let people become soldiers on their own will.

sea manup said:

DaNiKeRhiNo said:

 

sea manup said:

ironically "the american dream" is the reason america isnt #1 anymore


the same dream that lead to all the great innovations that caused america to be #1 is what is making americans feel too entitled to work the low end jobs that are outsourced to china


people complain about chinese people taking american jobs when they would never agree to work in the conditions that chinese workers work in


it takes hardship to get to the top and americans feel like they are too good to have to endure any hardship 

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Outsourcing to other countries is based on business decisions, it saves the companies money and keeps prices down to appease the customers. It has nothing to do with American Ingenuity.

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exactly, there is nothing wrong with what the companies are doing

if americans want their jobs back from developing nations then they have to be willing to work in the conditions and next to no pay like their asian counterparts 

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wut Americans need to work in poor conditions, be payed a dime on the dollar, not have benefits so that companies can bring jobs back to the US?

This makes no sense. EVERYBODY, not just Americans deserve to have decent work and living conditions. In the US, labor groups have fought and died for the conditions we have today. It's corporate greed that has allowed those jobs to go overseas.

Let me ask, what low end jobs do you speak of?
Damn right I wont work in the same conditions as a chinese employee will, I have rights and a union to protect me.

Americans don't "feel like they are too good to have to endure any hardship" they have the ability and strength to fight and earn those rights.

Imagine if Apple were to manufacture all of their product in the U.S. You mean to tell me, they really can't afford to pay a few dollars over minimum wage? Hell, even minimum wage?

SoleByThePound said:

 
Everybody knew this was coming; my professors in business school said "in 20 years China will surpass the U.S as the number 1 economic power" and that was 18 years ago. Looks like they were extremely close in their prediction. History has shown us over and over again that the top of the food chain always changes.

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Had a similar talk with my co-worker but China along with a few others will be on top.

offbad said:

 

sea manup said:

 

DaNiKeRhiNo said:

 

sea manup said:

exactly, there is nothing wrong with what the companies are doing

if americans want their jobs back from developing nations then they have to be willing to work in the conditions and next to no pay like their asian counterparts 

Click to expand...

I think it is the companies and customers faults but, I do agree with you for the most part. Same situation with the migrant jobs that are being "stolen".

Click to expand...

i dont think its anyone's fault, the goal of any company is to maximize profit. maximizing profit is pretty much what america was built on.

capitalism is the reason europeans have been the dominant force in the world for the past ____ years, and is the main reason for china's rise to power today 

Click to expand...

• china
   
• capitalism

pick one.

Click to expand...

if you dont think china is a capitalist society you dont know china 

sea manup said:

 
if you dont think china is a capitalist society you dont know china 

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There's def. many zones in China where free market is allowed though. But overall im sure they're far from being a true capitalist society.

China needs us way more than we need them. America is going to be on top for a long long time. 

DaNiKeRhiNo said:

sea manup said:

ironically "the american dream" is the reason america isnt #1 anymore

the same dream that lead to all the great innovations that caused america to be #1 is what is making americans feel too entitled to work the low end jobs that are outsourced to china

people complain about chinese people taking american jobs when they would never agree to work in the conditions that chinese workers work in

it takes hardship to get to the top and americans feel like they are too good to have to endure any hardship 

Click to expand...

Outsourcing to other countries is based on business decisions, it saves the companies money and keeps prices down to appease the customers. It has nothing to do with American Ingenuity.

Click to expand...

It's done more so to save money for the companies, not exactly to keep prices down. The want to see their profits grow, and the easiest way is to outsource work to China, India, and the Philippines

the financial system as it exists today is seriously flawed especially with how the money supply is controlled and how money is created. This system in result incentivizes unethical practices, war, economic exclusion etc. China just figured out a way to fast track its growth but they too have major problems that will come to a head in the near future.

TeamJordan79 said:

the financial system as it exists today is seriously flawed especially with how the money supply is controlled and how money is created. This system in result incentivizes unethical practices, war, economic exclusion etc. China just figured out a way to fast track its growth but they too have major problems that will come to a head in the near future.

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Yea but what happens when all the stimulus ends in China? Their manipulated GDP growth over the last few years has been spurred by huge government spending projects that have resulted in some half assed results.
What happens when Chinese banks stop lending? The government has been forcing them to lend.
What happens when the Chinese people realize that those empty cities are just that and will always remain and were just wasted investment?

China has a lot more problems going for them that people fail to realize. I'm happy that the U.S. is going to have to finally wake up, but I doubt that they'll make the necessary steps since our Congress is in gridlocked. Yet our Congress, no matter which party, are influenced by the same damned lobbiest.

Speaking of lobbies, people do realize that this is the only developed Western country that allows lobbies to exert this much influence?

360waves said:

China is also making major moves in Africa. Many are marrying and having children with African women. Solidifying their roots and rights to land. But they too will fall and another one will take over.

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when did this start?



Also....

Blame Obama

The only problem with this is the Chinese government dictates the value of the yuan. They keeping floating it so we really don't know it's true worth. If they were to have economic bubble pop it would be catastrophic

sea manup said:

SoleByThePound said:

NazDrowie said:

 
its time to take back whats rightfully ours

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Our 1% gladly sold it off though. This is what happens when you outsource in favor of cheap labor and saving money in taxes. Take into account that almost all of your possessions were made in China. Unless this country does a complete 180, China will remain the top economic power from here on out.

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The wealth gap is so much larger in China though. You have rich people hiring bus loads of poor people and paying them next to nothing to stay up all night in the cold camping out for Jordan releases so that their boss can flip them for a profit

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yea but china isn't outsourcing to US. but yea i can see the economic disparities in china being wide as well.

dudes kill me blaming everything on Obama...

in the comments.

The jerk in the White House has succeeded in taking us from #1 to #2, heading to #3.

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There's no such thing as true enterprise or capitalism.  Not even in the US!

Fontaine said:

dudes kill me blaming everything on Obama...

in the comments.

The jerk in the White House has succeeded in taking us from #1 to #2, heading to #3.

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once at my old job, i had a coworker blame obama for increase in MTA fare. (nyc transit). my response was def a


at this point all u can do is be like "ya sure w.e" lol.