RIP New York Hip-Hop? (Need Some Feedback)

tyisny said:
The thing is outside of the bigger artist thug is getting the same promo that most artist get, labels ain't dumping millions into projects no more. Your promo is basically touring, social media, blogs, youtube vids, listening events etc etc.

in the past year out of NYC you have

Bronson - 40K first week
Ferg - 35K
Flatbush Zombies - 28K
Joey - 54K
Chinx Drugz - 15K first week

this is just NYC alone, Now if i was to start going through other regions and highlighting artist doing similar #'s who aren't doing trap/melodic "popular music" it would put more perspective on that sound not being nearly as dominate as we like to think.
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Bronson has a big fanbase.....and is very popular for his work within Vice. He tours a lot, and has visibility...and it doesn't hurt he's white.

Ferg had a real album rollout. He just flopped.

Joey is similar to Bronson. His new single is crossing over, and getting radio Spinz. Bout time :pimp:

Flatbush overall won't move Thug's numbers...or have the impact at radio as thug. Dope to see them do that nonetheless. They're fully independent right? They got a niche.

Overall point is Thug is doing this about 4x a year. If you're selling 40k units of a mixtape 4 times a year...with the average song length being about 8 songs...the sales don't look bad at al....combined with the radio singles.

I do agre that Thug needs a good, cohesive body of work. That would actually push him into the real star stratosphere that people on this board prematurely tried to place him.

Right now, he's spinning wheels. But holding up his 40k first week numbers from a mixtape as something to prove he isn't hot is misguided.
 
STR8DROP said:
So let me get this straight, Push drop a Studio Album with real money spent on pressed up physicals in the stores and a short film to promo while referring to it as a Album the whole time and it's a "mixtape/EP", meanwhile Thug drop a actual mixtape thats for sale on iTunes but FREE to stream all day and night on Soundcloud, Hotnewhiphop, etc no physicals and y'all insist on calling it a album to clown the sales numbers :lol: :smh:
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Fam pusha legit had a two week promo run that consisted of a short film and a few videos, was exclusively released through tidal for the first week, and can be found for free like any other album that dropped. you acting like the ***** dropped an feature film & was going on a months long press. The point of this wasn't to clown his sales it was to clearly stabalize the illusions that Thug (who by the account of MANY of ya'll is the hottest in the south) is having the same impact as artist who ya'll claim have no buzz.
 
tyisny said:
Fam pusha legit had a two week promo run that consisted of a short film and a few videos, was exclusively released through tidal for the first week, and can be found for free like any other album that dropped. you acting like the ***** dropped an feature film & was going on a months long press. The point of this wasn't to clown his sales it was to clearly stabalize the illusions that Thug (who by the account of MANY of ya'll is the hottest in the south) is having the same impact as artist who ya'll claim have no buzz.
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Pusha legit did have a studio album though. Additionally, he's a seasoned rapper with a core fanbase. Push is expected to sell somewhere between 30-50k first week at this point on a new album.

Thug is dropping MULTIPLE mixtapes within months....sometimes back to back months that sell around 40k first week. He's doing very little promo...and releasing the mixtapes for free almost simultaneously.

There is a difference.
 
tyisny said:
STR8DROP said:
So let me get this straight, Push drop a Studio Album with real money spent on pressed up physicals in the stores and a short film to promo while referring to it as a Album the whole time and it's a "mixtape/EP", meanwhile Thug drop a actual mixtape thats for sale on iTunes but FREE to stream all day and night on Soundcloud, Hotnewhiphop, etc no physicals and y'all insist on calling it a album to clown the sales numbers :lol: :smh:
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Fam pusha legit had a two week promo run that consisted of a short film and a few videos, was exclusively released through tidal for the first week, and can be found for free like any other album that dropped. you acting like the ***** dropped an feature film & was going on a months long press. The point of this wasn't to clown his sales it was to clearly stabalize the illusions that Thug (who by the account of MANY of ya'll is the hottest in the south) is having the same impact as artist who ya'll claim have no buzz.
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I'm not "acting" like nothing. I said you calling it a mixtape as if they didn't spend money pressing real physicals and making a promo film, these are all facts. In this day and age everybody is doing short promo runs so that's irrelevant.

The point was the comparisons are off. You comparing the sales of Push's album, his first project/album in 2 years to Thug who has done 30-40k 3 times already this year on a FREE project. No Tidal/Apple exclusives, etc
 
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STR8DROP said:
I'm not "acting" like nothing. I said you calling it a mixtape as if they didn't spend money pressing real physicals and making a promo film, these are all facts. In this day and age everybody is doing short promo runs so that's irrelevant.

The point was the comparisons are off. You comparing the sales of Push's album, his first project/album in 2 years to Thug who has done 30-40k 3 times already this year on a FREE project.
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Exactly......
 
WavyCrocket said:
Bronson has a big fanbase.....and is very popular for his work within Vice. He tours a lot, and has visibility...and it doesn't hurt he's white.

Ferg had a real album rollout. He just flopped.

Joey is similar to Bronson. His new single is crossing over, and getting radio Spinz. Bout time :pimp:

Flatbush overall won't move Thug's numbers...or have the impact at radio as thug. Dope to see them do that nonetheless. They're fully independent right? They got a niche.

Overall point is Thug is doing this about 4x a year. If you're selling 40k units of a mixtape 4 times a year...with the average song length being about 8 songs...the sales don't look bad at al....combined with the radio singles.

I do agre that Thug needs a good, cohesive body of work. That would actually push him into the real star stratosphere that people on this board prematurely tried to place him.

Right now, he's spinning wheels. But holding up his 40k first week numbers from a mixtape as something to prove he isn't hot is misguided.
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so even if I take into account your thug sales equation.. he's taking a year to do what other HOT artist do in 2 weeks?

His impact on radio is MINIMAL, since the start of 2015 his biggest single has peaked at 93 on the top 100, 26 on the hiphop/R&B charts.

However this was never about thug i just used him because he's the perfect example of perception> reality in rap. we are living with this perception that you have to make club/radio friendly rap to be considered "Hot" or be in play, but those kind of records just aren't having the impact that people project. success in hiphop is being looked at through a scope of only a small portion of people, and the culture as a whole is overlooking other people accomplishments all because they aren't successful in a singular niche. That's important because a lot of new artist are forfeiting their sound to try & fit in, not knowing that those artist they are trying to emulate ain't exactly in the drivers seat at All.

THIS IS A CONVO ON WHY SUCCESS IN HIP HOP IS PERCEIVED TO BE BEING DOMINATE AMONGS A VERY SMALL NICHE.
 
STR8DROP said:
I'm not "acting" like nothing. I said you calling it a mixtape as if they didn't spend money pressing real physicals and making a promo film, these are all facts. In this day and age everybody is doing short promo runs so that's irrelevant.

The point was the comparisons are off. You comparing the sales of Push's album, his first project/album in 2 years to Thug who has done 30-40k 3 times already this year on a FREE project. No Tidal/Apple exclusives, etc
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okay So throw out pusha and Add in any of the other numerous artist doing similar #'s......... only thing is they don't have Lyor Cohen & Kev Liles (AKA two of the biggest and most knowledgeable execs in hip hop history, with connects in every piece of modern hiphop media) behind them.

Are ya'll telling me the guy who had a major hand in acts such as Run DMC, LL, Jay, DMX, Ja Rule and dozens upon dozens of other superstars is rolling with thug to press releases, interviews & everything else for the past year........ is doing this because he's bored and he hasn't been trying to make the projects work & hasn't invested money & effort into the projects?

The Same label that took Fetty off of soundcloud and turned him into about 3 platinum singles, All in a very similar lane to Thugs......... suddenly doesn't know how to work music or help get an artist hot?

The perception and the facts ain't adding up... if the south is dominating hip hop, and thug is the hottest in the south & yet his output is on par with NYC mixtape artist....... then NYC been back for awhile now :lol:
 
The fact that he's doing damn near Pusha numbers with no big features and minimal radio play on FREE projects actually makes it even more impressive 
laugh.gif


As far as Fetty Wap bruh would've honestly been good with backing/financing from whoever. Trap Queen, RGF Island, and a bunch of those other songs were getting heavy soundcloud spins EARLY, way before 300 stepped in.

And as far as Lyor he's said that with 300 they're tryna prove you can have success in the industry with a smaller label and less resources/overhead as long as you have the right analytics/data/marketing, etc which is why they're doing what they're doing with Thug's projects. 

Edit: Bruh said all this just to follow back to why NY is "back". Y'all _'s got a real complex 
laugh.gif
 
 
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That list up there has three artist who did 35-50 K in a week....... those artist aren't exactly mainstream and are fairly new. BTW since i see your passionate about this

I'm Up - 21k first week
SS3 - 38K
Jeffery - could do 40 K

These artist are all in similar if not worse positions from a promotional standpoint than thug btw
 
Bruh I think biggest part that you're missing is the Free part :lol:

Also I'm Up dropped before they started doing SPS across the board
 
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STR8DROP said:
The fact that he's doing damn near Pusha numbers with no big features and minimal radio play on FREE projects actually makes it even more impressive :lol:

As far as Fetty Wap bruh would've honestly been good with backing/financing from whoever. Trap Queen, RGF Island, and a bunch of those other songs were getting heavy soundcloud spins EARLY, way before 300 stepped in.

And as far as Lyor he's said that with 300 they're tryna prove you can have success in the industry with a smaller label and less resources/overhead as long as you have the right analytics/data/marketing, etc which is why they're doing what they're doing with Thug's projects. 

Edit: Bruh said all this just to follow back to why NY is "back". Y'all _'s got a real complex :lol:  
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Why would that be more impressive by ya'll account he is at the very least the second hottest artist in the hottest region of hiphop.......... why shouldn't he be easily out selling artist who don't even attempt to make mainstream music.

You can't say a ***** the hottest then try to give him underdog status against artist who get less looks than him....... it doesn't work that way
 
tyisny said:
That list up there has three artist who did 35-50 K in a week....... those artist aren't exactly mainstream and are fairly new. BTW since i see your passionate about this

I'm Up - 21k first week
SS3 - 38K
Jeffery - could do 40 K

These artist are all in similar if not worse positions from a promotional standpoint than thug btw
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Those dropped in February, March and August.

That's almost 100K of first week sales of FREE MUSIC with very minimal promotion.

Meanwhile, other artist are taking years to promote their 1 album for the whole year that will sell around 60k tops.

What Thug and 300 are doing is hustling. As Memph Bleek so eloquently put it in 1-900 Hustler.....

"We know you got a brick, but sell em 20's till they tired".
 
STR8DROP said:
Bruh I think biggest part that you're missing is the Free part :lol:

Also I'm Up dropped before they started doing SPS across the board
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The projects are promoted, the projects are up for sale, the projects are up for streaming.... any artist who drops a digital project has there album up for free in a matter of minutes. If anything his projects being featured on all the blogs and mixtape websites help sell the music more than anything. it's all day promotion and hype being bulit around.
 
I personally never said any of that **** so chill with the strawmans my way :lol:

Also I don't really see Thug as just out here going out of his way to make "mainstream" songs if he did he would be throwing R&B ******* and big rappers on hooks/songs rather than his homies, weed carriers and sisters :lol:
 
tyisny said:
STR8DROP said:
Bruh I think biggest part that you're missing is the Free part :lol:

Also I'm Up dropped before they started doing SPS across the board
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The projects are promoted, the projects are up for sale, the projects are up for streaming.... any artist who drops a digital project has there album up for free in a matter of minutes. If anything his projects being featured on all the blogs and mixtape websites help sell the music more than anything. it's all day promotion and hype being bulit around.
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Aight so what app do I download to stream Bronson **** on demand for free right now? What about the Flatbush Zombies project? I actually listen to Flatbush bro :lol: believe me there's a difference

The industry thing to do right now is have a Spofify embed on xyz blog that makes you download the app after 30 secs and even then unless you cough up the 9.99 a month you can only shuffle play. This is because these _'s and their label wanna be paid and rightfully so.

Thug and them are literally giving this **** way for free for what I'm assuming is analytics, gauging interest, etc. Like I said Hotnewhiphop said these _'s must not care about sales that much because they gave it to us for free to upload ourselves and stream, no Spotify ********. Those 500k Hotnewhiphop streams on SS3 aren't counting numerically towards his sales.

The Bronson and FZ albums are both up on Soundcloud but again unless I cough up the 9.99 per month I only get 30 secs by their choice. On the other hand I can freely stream any of the 3 projects Thug has released this year on Soundcloud right now.

In this scenario what incentive do I really have to go to iTunes and cash out besides me really wanting to support that artist?
 
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STR8DROP said:
Aight so what app do I download to stream Bronson **** on demand for free right now? What about the Flatbush Zombies project? I actually listen to Flatbush bro :lol: believe me there's a difference

The industry thing to do right now is have a Spofify embed on xyz blog that makes you download the app after 30 secs and even then unless you cough up the 9.99 a month you can only shuffle play. This is because these _'s and their label wanna be paid and rightfully so.

Thug and them are literally giving this **** way for free for what I'm assuming is analytics. Like I said Hotnewhiphop said these _'s must not care about sales that much because they gave it to us for free to upload ourselves and stream, no Spotify ********. Those 500k Hotnewhiphop streams on SS3 aren't counting numerically towards his sales.

The Bronson and FZ albums are both up on Soundcloud but again unless I cough up the 9.99 per month I only get 30 secs by their choice. On the other hand I can freely stream any of the 3 projects Thug has released this year on Soundcloud right now.
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Break it down.....

:smokin
 
I've already delve to far into this to jst be going back and forth about numbers we don't have. The point still remains that as hot as dude may seem he isn't in the stratosphere of those artist who are really moving 100 of thousands of albums, he's not translating to radio well, and his tours along with reach isn't on the level of those artist.. maybe after another 10 free projects they will but as of today they are not.

he is way closer to a Tier of Bronson, Joey, Ferg than he is to the tier of Kendrick, Cole, Wale, Rocky

nothing wrong with that except he's being heralded as one of the bigger rappers & those in a similar space are looked at as underachieving or not making any noise.

NYC has a slew of young artist who are having just as much success if not more than their sudden counterparts and media has shaped it as if it's a huge difference & it's not.

So in short all this talk of NYC rap being dead is highly overstated, we have plenty of new artist who are making a splash & who are also putting out quality rap.
 
tyisny said:
The thing is outside of the bigger artist thug is getting the same promo that most artist get, labels ain't dumping millions into projects no more. Your promo is basically touring, social media, blogs, youtube vids, listening events etc etc.

in the past year out of NYC you have

Bronson - 40K first week
Ferg - 35K
Flatbush Zombies - 28K
Joey - 54K
Chinx Drugz - 15K first week

this is just NYC alone, Now if i was to start going through other regions and highlighting artist doing similar #'s who aren't doing trap/melodic "popular music" it would put more perspective on that sound not being nearly as dominate as we like to think.
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That's cool.

I guess in NY those guys are popping, haven't been since I was a kid.

But in every aux I hear it's Uzi, Yachty, Thug, Migos, Future, Nav, a little Drake, a little 2 Chainz.

But everyone's city is different. I go by what is popping based on what is in people's cars and clubs. Just because someone isn't selling doesn't mean people aren't living with the music everyday.

But like I said, I'm not in NY so those guys could be what's on people's aux in NYC.
 
tyisny said:
I've already delve to far into this to jst be going back and forth about numbers we don't have. The point still remains that as hot as dude may seem he isn't in the stratosphere of those artist who are really moving 100 of thousands of albums, he's not translating to radio well, and his tours along with reach isn't on the level of those artist.. maybe after another 10 free projects they will but as of today they are not.

he is way closer to a Tier of Bronson, Joey, Ferg than he is to the tier of Kendrick, Cole, Wale, Rocky

nothing wrong with that except he's being heralded as one of the bigger rappers & those in a similar space are looked at as underachieving or not making any noise.

NYC has a slew of young artist who are having just as much success if not more than their sudden counterparts and media has shaped it as if it's a huge difference & it's not.

So in short all this talk of NYC rap being dead is highly overstated, we have plenty of new artist who are making a splash & who are also putting out quality rap.
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Man...nobody EVER said Thug is in the same tier as Kendrick and Cole as far as starpower/recognition goes :lol:.

You had LameKilla....who started resenting Future and hitched on to Thug....driving home this false narrative that Thug was going to "take Future's lane"....and "2016 was his year".

Any rational person could see that wasn't going to happen. What IS true though is that Thug is routinely selling a sht ton of FREE MIXTAPES. And to use him selling 40k a week worth of a free mixtape....multiple times during the year.....to try and prove he ISNT "hot" is misguided.

Think of Thug as a 2012 2 Chainz or something. I think once Thug is ready to debut his album, and it's marketed with the dollars and science behind it....he'll move about 80k or more the first week.

Which would correctly reflect his standing as a firm household name in hip hop. He may not be a superstar....but he's one of the hottest out.
 
FLESH PRINCE said:
That's cool.

I guess in NY those guys are popping, haven't been since I was a kid.

But in every aux I hear it's Uzi, Yachty, Thug, Migos, Future, Nav, a little Drake, a little 2 Chainz.

But everyone's city is different. I go by what is popping based on what is in people's cars and clubs. Just because someone isn't selling doesn't mean people aren't living with the music everyday.

But like I said, I'm not in NY so those guys could be what's on people's aux in NYC.
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This is my point right here....... Hiphop seems to think that if you aren't appealing to a small demographic that you can't be hot. So we have artist selling 40-50K per release touring the country, getting major endorsements, and making music that impacts people. yet somehow if it's not in the club or being touted by some of your favorite social media guys these artist are looked at differently.

I'm sure those guys get played constantly in certain demographics, in other spaces there totally irrelevant. I think hiphop has gotten to the point where it's no longer going to be dictated strictly by what one set of people think. So yea their may be tons of 15-25 yr olds who love Yachty, Uzi, Thug that's cool, But there also a very similar sized portion who like Bronson, Pusha, Curren$y. we've gotten to a point where we are valuing one perspective over another and making generalizations although all the actual numbers prove otherwise.

So when people say NYC is dead........ hell it may be dead in your group of friends & inside of clubs, thankfully music is enjoyed by a much larger field than that, and those people count also. Until Ye album i never heard Chance on a single radio dial, or club setting... As of now he's surpassed everyone in the trap rap scene in damn near every category.

NYC artist especially just need to stick to servicing their fans and just doing them because taking the route of a lot of these rappers is gonna leave them ****** up and completely obsolete in a year or two. Based off our current standing it seems as if NYC is doing just that & it's starting to show.
 
If Thug is doing the same numbers these _'s albums are doing off mixtapes that I can literally listen to right now on the free version of Soundcloud, I think it's safe to say they aren't in the same tier bro 
laugh.gif


Edit: I'm honestly done in here _ just gonna continue to move the goalposts 
laugh.gif
 

_'s comparing Chance who got a who's who of powerful *** people in music behind him (which I already broke down in here) to "trap rappers" 
laugh.gif


Meanwhile, 'No Problem' the Chance single getting hella spins on the radio right now is a Desiigner-esque Thug impersenation 
roll.gif
 
 
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A whole load of powerful people in the record industry......... your defending Thug who has Lyor Cohen & Kev Liles behind him tho... the same guys who found Fetty Wap's soundcloud page.. which contained his three biggest singles for MONTHS completely free... and then turned those three singles into platinum records & a Gold album. Fetty's biggest songs off that album were legit online for free for a cool year and somehow he managed to go gold but i digress... at the end of the day if ya'll think Thug is the hottest in the game go head and tell yourself that, i heard the **** two years ago, heard it again last year & we will continue to hear new excuses as to why the New Wayne is doing flatbush zombie #'s :lol:

Now speaking of New York, this G-Unit mixtape that leaked is actuall a million times better than i expected
 
Peep Game said:
2012 2Chainz??


giphy.gif
Click to expand...

2012 Chainz - Resume

Mercy - #1 Hiphop/R&B record in country, 3X platinum
No Lie - #1 hiphop/R&Br ecord in country, 1x platinum
Birthday song - #10 Hiphop/R&B record in country, 2x platinum
I'm different - #6 Hiphop/R&B record in country, 2x platinum

2015/16 Young Thug - Resume

#9 Hiphop/R&B record in country, 1x platinum (early 2015 also)
GIANT Gap


With them - # 26 Hiphop/R&B record in country
.
.
.
.
# 1 at Monday nights at the blue flame


Yet Thug is on Par with having a 2Chainz like run........ illusions running rampid.
 
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