EDIT: New Question, is LeBron the second greatest player of all time? So, has Steph Curry overtaken

Who is the best basketball player in the world?

  • LeBron James

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Steph Curry

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Russell Westbrook

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Kevin Durant

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Anthony Davis

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
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as great as curry is on offense and he is the 8th wonder of the world shooting the ball. he would do himself a better service if he placed his feet within a foot and a half of the line for christ sake. put two hands on the ball and pass that MF like a man and mix it up more by taking some mid range shots.

his PG instincts need to improve...

if he feeds klay more in the second half of game 5, we may be in a totally different scenario.
 
Yea but saying HE is the reason GSW lost is as ridiculous as all of the other chewing Crow statements you quoted today.

Yea, he could have played better but it takes a TEAM to win during the finals.

The entire team shot horribly in the 4th quarters of the last 3 games. Under 40%. The TEAM did that, not just Steph
 
DCAllAmerican said:
Yea but saying HE is the reason GSW lost is as ridiculous as all of the other chewing Crow statements you quoted today.

Yea, he could have played better but it takes a TEAM to win during the finals.

The entire team shot horribly in the 4th quarters of the last 3 games. Under 40%. The TEAM did that, not just Steph
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i am with you DC. i didnt write that in response to you.
 
DCAllAmerican said:
Here we go with the blame game.

Steph caused the GSW the series? So him not playing to his MVP level is the only thing that went wrong?

That isn't right man. Nor is it accurate

Harrison Barnes not being consistent
Iggy injury
Bout injury
Draymond Suspension
Progressive Fatigue from OKC series

Losses can't be simplified as simple as, "If Steph would have played better."
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Did I say that Steph not playing to his MVP level was the only thing that went wrong?

Curry had the most noticeable dropoff from his normal self to his Finals series.  That is indisputable.  So while there is other blame to go around, Curry deserves the most of it because he played so far below the level he we are used to saying.  Of all the other things you listed as reasons the Warriors lost, none of them are even close to being as big of an issue as Steph Curry not playing well.

Barnes?  He averaged less than 3 points less than his season averages.  He was awful too, dont get me wrong.  But we are talking about the 5th or 6th most important player for the Warriors.  Him producing a couple less points per game is not a major reason the Warriors lost.

Iggy injury?  Did he look like he was really hurt yesterday?  Didnt appear that way to me.  Havent heard anyone else really say this was an issue either.

Bogut injury?  Bogut had the worst +/- of all Warriors this series.  He didnt even play down the stretch last year.  Dont see how this is more than just a minor thing here.  

Draymond suspension I will give you.  Still think it was BS, but whatever.  That cost us (if you can even say that was THE reason) one game.  One.

Fatigue, fine.  I cant disagree with you because I have no idea.  But then again, neither do you.

Bottom line is, Curry is the player that the Warriors counted on all season long.  And when it mattered the most, he played very poorly.  So while you are right that there were other contributing factors, none of them come close to being as big a factor as Curry's poor play.  Curry averaged 8 points less per game in the Finals than during the regular season (the single largest dropoff by an MVP in the last THIRTY years).  Curry had more turnovers than assists.  He was probably the 4th best Warrior this series.  

I know you have a tough time assigning blame or crediting one single player DC.  But I dont see how anyone can possibly say that Steph was not the single largest (by a mile) reason the Warriors lost.  
 
DCAllAmerican said:
Yea but saying HE is the reason GSW lost is as ridiculous as all of the other chewing Crow statements you quoted today.

Yea, he could have played better but it takes a TEAM to win during the finals.

The entire team shot horribly in the 4th quarters of the last 3 games. Under 40%. The TEAM did that, not just Steph
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Your recent posts make it clear that you dont believe superstars or MVPs should be held at a higher standard than other random team members.  If that is what you believe, nothing I post will change that.

I just personally think that the Stephen Currys of the world should be held to a higher standard than the Harrison Barnes of the worlds.  
 
I am sure during a film session Coach Staff wouldn't attribute most it to Steph.

Iggy had a broken back man. The thought of your back being messed up messes with toy mentally when it comes to maximizing movement.

Bout being hurt mean damn Festus and Flop Man had to play heavier minutes. We don't think that was a negative outcome of his injury?

And I disagree with the Barnes. Role players giving a little extra can definitely help a team in the long run. And ANYONE not playing up to participate deserves blame for losses.
 
dland24 said:
Your recent posts make it clear that you dont believe superstars or MVPs should be held at a higher standard than other random team members.  If that is what you believe, nothing I post will change that.

I just personally think that the Stephen Currys of the world should be held to a higher standard than the Harrison Barnes of the worlds.  
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I think everyone should be held to the standards that they, their coaches, and teammates have created for them.

I won't blame the most productive person for their team losing when there are dozens of variables in the course of a basketball game.

Everyone that doesn't do their job deserves blame.

The blame the superstar **** is the easy narrative thar the media uses to simplify WHY a team lost.

It is dome for the casuals to explain wins and loses.

Anyone that knows and studies the game knows it ain't that simple
 
I need someone to step up and take the title from both these *****.  I can't handle saying anything remotely nice about Lebron.  **** that guy.
 
DCAllAmerican said:
So you can't look at the sport Lebron from a non-emotional POV? [emoji]128514[/emoji]
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Nope.  The guy is a dbag.  No amount of winning will change that for me.  Oh well, he has already lost in 4 finals, odds are he will lose again next year.

Le3/8 James here we come. 

**** Lebron

Steph Curry is dead to me now too. 
 
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DCAllAmerican said:
 
dland24 said:
Your recent posts make it clear that you dont believe superstars or MVPs should be held at a higher standard than other random team members.  If that is what you believe, nothing I post will change that.

I just personally think that the Stephen Currys of the world should be held to a higher standard than the Harrison Barnes of the worlds.  
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I think everyone should be held to the standards that they, their coaches, and teammates have created for them.

I won't blame the most productive person for their team losing when there are dozens of variables in the course of a basketball game.

Everyone that doesn't do their job deserves blame.

The blame the superstar **** is the easy narrative thar the media uses to simplify WHY a team lost.

It is dome for the casuals to explain wins and loses.

Anyone that knows and studies the game knows it ain't that simple
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So if you believe that everyone should be held to the standards that are created for them, how can you NOT put the most blame on the guy who produced at so much lower of a clip that he normally does?  Yes there are other variables.  But not all variables should be created equal.  
 
Player 1: Approaches Expectations
Player 2 Approaches Expectations
Player 3: Exceeds Expectations
Player 4: Approaches Expectations
Player 5: Meets Expectations

This is a simple view. It goes deeper that that though.

Taking the example above, it takes alot more to win in the NBA Finals. Players 1, 2, and 3 didn't so what was expected of them. Yes, they have different roles but all of their roles are needed for the team to be successful.

Sure some puzzle pieces are bigger than others, but guess what yoy can't expect to finish the puzzle if any of them are missing. No matter the size.

So in short, everyone needs to step up to the plate. Having a larger Scoring role doesn't mean you are more important than someone else that has a role of a paint protector / rebounder. Scoring is just the more glamorous role.

Hope that answered your question
 
DC......It didnt as much answer my question as much as it confirmed my assumption of your belief.  You think all players are equal.  If 2 players dont meet their expectations, it doesnt matter if one is a superstar and one is the 7th most important player to the team.  You wouldnt blame the superstar more than the 7th most important player.  

I respect your opinion, but I find it to be absolutely ridiculous.  Sorry.
 
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See, I never said they are EQUAL. The roles are DIFFERENT.

And I am only speaking on people that actually get in the game. So, of course I am not speaking of Brandon Rush.

What Draymond does for the team is as important as what Steph does for the team.
What Klay brings is different than what HB brings, but both are needed.

You can say I am saying they are equal, but I am not. Different roles but all roles need to be filled.

I look at it like this. If I am in a film session, what would the coaching staff say when they are breaking down the film without the players there.

Are they going to blame one person more than the other?
Or are they going to look at the collective mistakes made by the team?

I have sat in film sessions at major D1 schools (Pitt, Mason, GW), and I have never once heard a staff blame a PLAYER for a loss.

Again, that is the media's agenda.

That is fine, you can think it is ridiculous. That is understandable completely.
 
dland24 said:
DC......It didnt as much answer my question as much as it confirmed my assumption of your belief.  You think all players are equal.  If 2 players dont meet their expectations, it doesnt matter if one is a superstar and one is the 7th most important player to the team.  You wouldnt blame the superstar more than the 7th most important player.  

I respect your opinion, but I find it to be absolutely ridiculous.  Sorry.
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But back to the main point of this discussion.

To blame STEPH (in whichever way you phrase it because that is what you did), is just wild to me and unacceptable honestly.

People only look at what the player explicitly does but never mention or credit him for what he is able to open up for his teammates by simply existing. 

Draymond and Klay were able to do their thing at various points of the series because of Steph being there.

Kyrie is able to do what he does because the threat of LeBron lurks, (Kyrie is a great basketball player in his own right, not taking ANYTHING away from him).

So it isn't as simple as, "Steph shot poorly. Didn't make shots he normally makes. His fault we loss."

Basketball isn't that simple of a sport and I think we need to stop with the simplistic, "They lost because of X, Y, Z" headlines that we tend to do when discussing games
 
Last analogy I will use to try and get you to see it.

A single mother has 3 kids.
Girl: Age 15
Boy: Age 11
Boy: Age 10

She gets home from work late, but each day she gives each of her kids a responsibility (role). It is expected each one of them finishes their part to ensure that she is happy when she gets home from a long days of work.

Girl: Wash Dishes, Wash Clothes, Fold Clothes
Boy: Mop the bathroom floor
Boy: Take the trash out

If Girl doesn't wash and fold clothes
If Boy doesn't Mop Floor
If Boy DOES take out the trash

Who do you say is THE reason mother is upset when she comes home to see that chores aren't done? Are we going to blame girl because she had more chores?

I personally would say NO, I would blame ALL parties that didn't do their part in making sure the house is clean.

What we want to do is blame the person with the biggest role (perceived) and stop there. Nah, that isn't how basketball works

Random, I know but I don't know how else to explain it
 
We are going to have to agree to disagree.  I just cant get behind your logic.  

Harrison Barnes' role is to provide good defense and score about 11 points a game.  Thats what he did all season.  Well in the Finals he played worse than that and scored about 9 points a game.

Then there is Curry.  He scored 8ppg less than what he normally does.  He had over 3 assists less than what he normally does.  He had more than 1.5 turnovers more than what he normally does.

Neither player played to their standards that were set.  You think they both deserve blame.  I say Curry deserves FAR more.  I guess we have to agree to disagree here.  You are never going to get me to believe that Curry's play wasnt exponentially more detrimental to the Warriors this series than other players who didnt meet expectations.
 
dland24 said:
We are going to have to agree to disagree.  I just cant get behind your logic.  

Harrison Barnes' role is to provide good defense and score about 11 points a game.  Thats what he did all season.  Well in the Finals he played worse than that and scored about 9 points a game.

Then there is Curry.  He scored 8ppg less than what he normally does.  He had over 3 assists less than what he normally does.  He had more than 1.5 turnovers more than what he normally does.

Neither player played to their standards that were set.  You think they both deserve blame.  I say Curry deserves FAR more.  I guess we have to agree to disagree here.  You are never going to get me to believe that Curry's play wasnt exponentially more detrimental to the Warriors this series than other players who didnt meet expectations.
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I think the problem lies in that you are simply looking at raw numbers and how close to season averages these players performed when there are other intangibles that don't show up in the box score that I explained 2 posts ago.

It's cool though. Thanks for having a respectable conversation
 
Let me try this another way DC......

Answer the following questions......

1)  If Stephen Curry averages 30.1 ppg, 6.7 apg, 3.3 topg, and shoots 50% as opposed to averaging 22.6 ppg, 3.7 apg, 4.3 topg, while shooting 40%, do you believe the Warriors win the series?

2)  If Harrison Barnes averages his season averages instead of what he did in the Finals and Curry still plays as poorly as he did, do you believe the Warriors win the series?

I think its obvious what your answers will be.  That is why I dont see how you CANT place more blame on a guy with a HUGE role who underperformed by a lot instead of a guy with a smaller role who underperformed by a little.
 
dland24 said:
 
Let me try this another way DC......

Answer the following questions......

1)  If Stephen Curry averages 30.1 ppg, 6.7 apg, 3.3 topg, and shoots 50% as opposed to averaging 22.6 ppg, 3.7 apg, 4.3 topg, while shooting 40%, do you believe the Warriors win the series?

2)  If Harrison Barnes averages his season averages instead of what he did in the Finals and Curry still plays as poorly as he did, do you believe the Warriors win the series?

I think its obvious what your answers will be.  That is why I dont see how you CANT place more blame on a guy with a HUGE role who underperformed by a lot instead of a guy with a smaller role who underperformed by a little.
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1. Not sure. Hard to say. From a pure numbers standpoint they SHOULD win with those numbers. Realistically speaking, him cooking might take the fire from the other players in terms of them looking for their own offensively. So it could have an inverse effect. Who knows? It really isn't as simple as, "If he would have scored more they would have won." This isn't an NBA 2K Simulation.

2. That I honestly can't answer. I have no idea. Maybe yes? Maybe no? What will him being more aggressive alter on the court? 

It isn't that simple. I know that answer might be frustrating but again, it is hard for me to look at this game from a Point A to Point B type of way. Game is way too complex
 
I just feel like Curry was exposed most of the post-season. Post-season Curry just wasn't regular season Curry. Last 4 and a half minutes of the game, the Warriors couldn't score a single point and that's with Curry started chucking in the last 2 or so minutes. We also saw why Nike passed on Curry for Kyrie cuz (in my opinion) Kyrie was the reason the Cavs won the championship.
 
Are we forgetting that Steph wasn't healthy? I know everyone is banged up during this time. But we know "da knee" wasn't where it was 3 months ago.

Call it an excuse if you want. It is what it is

But it is part of the game.
 
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