2019 NFL Discussion Thread: StaXX talking to himself

[Clyde Frog]

heres a great response about McCarthy that i agree with that saves me a ton of breath. ill spoiler it though, if anyone wants to read.

Spoiler

I spent some time staring at different data point of all the teams who have made super bowl appearances during Aaron Rodgers time as a starter. I hear so much negativity from Packer fans that can get really frustrating considering how fun the last ten years (25 really) have been as a fan.

Here’s a few observations.

• The Patriots are the only team with two Super Bowl wins. It’s also worth noting that both of those wins could have likely been easily prevented with the reversal of two plays (Seahawks passing on the 1 yard line, and Matt Ryan getting sacked out of field goal range on what should have been a running play.)
  
  
• The NFC is way more competitive than the AFC. Perhaps the word “competitive” could be debated, but the point is just that the number of teams that have risen in and out of power in the NFC way exceeds the AFC. If you take into consideration that both the Broncos and Colts relied on Peyton Manning for a lot of their playoff runs the numbers look even more squished. The AFC just has simply not featured the same variety of different talents that the NFC has. The NFC has been a much harder conference to play in because many teams have risen to prominence and gone on “runs” while the AFC has had a lot more struggling teams
  
  
• I would also be interested in the breakdowns of the division games. Each year the Patriots have gotten 6 games against the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins, while the Packers have had to play the Vikings Bears and Lions. In everyone of those last 10 years at least one of the teams in our division has been legitimately competitive, while the Patriots have enjoyed a decade of laughable opponents.
  
  
• There are many great quarterbacks represented on this list. Ben Rothesburger, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning. Some other ones worth noting too on the Russell Wilson level. I constantly hear the argument that the Packers should have had more success simply because they have Aaron Rodgers. The biggest problem I have with that, is that while I would rank Rodgers slightly higher, compare his 10 year run with that of Drew Brees. Packers have succeeded in a landslide, and has numbers about the same as Rothesburger who is playing in the AFC.
  
  
• the “fire McCarthy” brigade has one flaw above all the others. It’s the assumption that there is someone amazing to replace him with. As you can see here, over the last decade there’s only one coach, Bill Bilichick objectively better and a small handful of others in the whole league that are comparable to MM. Essentially when you boil the argument down far enough the reason people are frustrated is because the Patriots are able to win more than the Packers, so really what they are saying is “what is wrong with the Packers, all they need to do is hire one of the greatest coaches of all time, then we will have massive success! Unfortunately that is about as easy as finding a great quarterback. Many of these teams with sporadic playoff appearances have had multiple coaches over those time periods, and typically a new coach means an installment year and missing the playoffs, so especially if you’re afraid of “wasting Aaron’s window” getting a new coach is completely idiotic.
  
  
• there’s a complete lack of appreciation for what we have witnessed, and this is the most frustrating part. Every year you have a 1/32 chance of winning a Super Bowl, and about a 1/3 chance of making the playoffs. Playoff games are where all the excitement of being a Football fan lies, there’s nothing like playoff high-fives. Well over the past decade we have witnessed the Packers play 16 playoff games. That’s the second most of any team, and we only had 1 Super Bowl Run. We have gotten to celebrate 9 different playoff victories which is also extremely high. The fact that we just write all of those off is really pathetic. There are easily 20-25 teams in the NFL that would swap with us in an instant. And again the “but we have Aaron Rodgers we should have more!!!” Argument falls apart again. Because the Saints gave Drew Brees and they would switch success records with us.
  

I know I just typed a novel. Hopefully you guys were able to get this far. I’d love if you shared this and had some discussion down below!

 

[IATT]

rodgers isn’t even the 2nd best packers qb ever.

Who are the top 2?

 

[DeadsetAce]

rodgers isn’t even the 2nd best packers qb ever let alone compatible to brady.

i loved favre growing up so i love this

 

[651akathepaul]

brady is the GOAT - includes resume, rings, longevity, team factors, etc
rodgers is the BOAT - talent, ability, individual factors

I can get on board with this.

Talent, ability and individual factors is highly subjective though and you can easily place Peyton, Marino, Brees, Elway and maybe others in that spot too.


Oh...and Favre >

 

[second2nonee]

heres a great response about McCarthy that i agree with that saves me a ton of breath. ill spoiler it though, if anyone wants to read.

Spoiler

I spent some time staring at different data point of all the teams who have made super bowl appearances during Aaron Rodgers time as a starter. I hear so much negativity from Packer fans that can get really frustrating considering how fun the last ten years (25 really) have been as a fan.

Here’s a few observations.

• The Patriots are the only team with two Super Bowl wins. It’s also worth noting that both of those wins could have likely been easily prevented with the reversal of two plays (Seahawks passing on the 1 yard line, and Matt Ryan getting sacked out of field goal range on what should have been a running play.)
  
  
• The NFC is way more competitive than the AFC. Perhaps the word “competitive” could be debated, but the point is just that the number of teams that have risen in and out of power in the NFC way exceeds the AFC. If you take into consideration that both the Broncos and Colts relied on Peyton Manning for a lot of their playoff runs the numbers look even more squished. The AFC just has simply not featured the same variety of different talents that the NFC has. The NFC has been a much harder conference to play in because many teams have risen to prominence and gone on “runs” while the AFC has had a lot more struggling teams
  
  
• I would also be interested in the breakdowns of the division games. Each year the Patriots have gotten 6 games against the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins, while the Packers have had to play the Vikings Bears and Lions. In everyone of those last 10 years at least one of the teams in our division has been legitimately competitive, while the Patriots have enjoyed a decade of laughable opponents.
  
  
• There are many great quarterbacks represented on this list. Ben Rothesburger, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning. Some other ones worth noting too on the Russell Wilson level. I constantly hear the argument that the Packers should have had more success simply because they have Aaron Rodgers. The biggest problem I have with that, is that while I would rank Rodgers slightly higher, compare his 10 year run with that of Drew Brees. Packers have succeeded in a landslide, and has numbers about the same as Rothesburger who is playing in the AFC.
  
  
• the “fire McCarthy” brigade has one flaw above all the others. It’s the assumption that there is someone amazing to replace him with. As you can see here, over the last decade there’s only one coach, Bill Bilichick objectively better and a small handful of others in the whole league that are comparable to MM. Essentially when you boil the argument down far enough the reason people are frustrated is because the Patriots are able to win more than the Packers, so really what they are saying is “what is wrong with the Packers, all they need to do is hire one of the greatest coaches of all time, then we will have massive success! Unfortunately that is about as easy as finding a great quarterback. Many of these teams with sporadic playoff appearances have had multiple coaches over those time periods, and typically a new coach means an installment year and missing the playoffs, so especially if you’re afraid of “wasting Aaron’s window” getting a new coach is completely idiotic.
  
  
• there’s a complete lack of appreciation for what we have witnessed, and this is the most frustrating part. Every year you have a 1/32 chance of winning a Super Bowl, and about a 1/3 chance of making the playoffs. Playoff games are where all the excitement of being a Football fan lies, there’s nothing like playoff high-fives. Well over the past decade we have witnessed the Packers play 16 playoff games. That’s the second most of any team, and we only had 1 Super Bowl Run. We have gotten to celebrate 9 different playoff victories which is also extremely high. The fact that we just write all of those off is really pathetic. There are easily 20-25 teams in the NFL that would swap with us in an instant. And again the “but we have Aaron Rodgers we should have more!!!” Argument falls apart again. Because the Saints gave Drew Brees and they would switch success records with us.

I know I just typed a novel. Hopefully you guys were able to get this far. I’d love if you shared this and had some discussion down below!

while some of this is true, this team with rodgers has obviously won more in spite of mccarthy, not because of him. so i don't agree with all of it. you know how damn trash they look without rodgers playing. the drop-off is astonishing tbh. you expect a lot of teams with a backup to suck but this team becomes the browns when rodgers doesn't start

mccarthy was fine the first decade, but he needed to get canned about 3 years ago honestly lol

 

[651akathepaul]

If anyone that grew up watching football in the 90's and they hate Favre...I got nothing to say to you (though we can respectfully disagree). This is obviously a diehard Vikings fan telling this to you...There's more to it, but that was the funnest guy to watch...ever.

 

[Clyde Frog]

while some of this is true, this team with rodgers has obviously won more in spite of mccarthy, not because of him. so i don't agree with all of it. you know how damn trash they look without rodgers playing. the drop-off is astonishing tbh. you expect a lot of teams with a backup to suck but this team becomes the browns when rodgers doesn't start

mccarthy was fine the first decade, but he needed to get canned about 3 years ago honestly lol

the looking like **** without rodgers thing doesnt make sense to me though. of course we would. hes taking up a huge amount of our cap and most teams would look like **** without their starting QB. except for the Bucs.

and we still almost made the playoffs with Hundley. and we made the playoffs with Matt Flynn twice. McCarthy single handedly got Flynn paid.

 

[second2nonee]

I can get on board with this.

Talent, ability and individual factors is highly subjective though and you can easily place Peyton, Marino, Brees, Elway and maybe others in that spot too.


Oh...and Favre >

mahomes keeps playing like this and we'll have to add his name too

i loved favre. first ever fav player growing up, but rodgers >>

 

[DeadsetAce]

Gordon's fit

 

[Clyde Frog]

i dont wanna defend McCarthy at all costs either. hes on my last nerve. but the success relative to the rest of the league is something to consider. its really ****ing hard to win the super bowl no matter who you are. and i keep thinking back to how Payton recovered after being worse than us. i just think its a huge dilemma.

 

[DeadsetAce]

i dont wanna defend McCarthy at all costs either. hes on my last nerve. but the success relative to the rest of the league is something to consider. its really ****ing hard to win the super bowl no matter who you are. i just think its a huge dilemma.

to take from Bill Belichick who OFTEN uses this quote in 100% seriousness:

"Players win games, coaches lose them."

that's loaded, obviously...but take it as you will

 

[DeadsetAce]

 

[kicks2024]

Seeing these highlights, Flacco didnt throw it to Lamar on purpose

 

[651akathepaul]

mahomes keeps playing like this and we'll have to add his name too

i loved favre. first ever fav player growing up, but rodgers >>

Why are you a Packers fan?

 

[second2nonee]

the looking like **** without rodgers thing doesnt make sense to me though. of course we would. hes taking up a huge amount of our cap and most teams would look like **** without their starting QB. except for the Bucs.

and we still almost made the playoffs with Hundley. and we made the playoffs with Matt Flynn twice. McCarthy single handedly got Flynn paid.

again, he was fine the first decade, which includes the flynn stuff. but these past 3 years he's been more of a detriment. it's easy to use injuries, cap, etc as excuses but the team is so poorly coached. i don't feel like writing a novel about it either and i'm not sure what available replacement is out there at the moment, but i just know this team is meddling with the current coaching staff. i always give credit where it's due, but this team has been winning in spite of him recently, not because of him.

they're still always gonna be in the playoff/championship hunt and yes i understand it's hard to win, but there's no way you can tell me he isn't holding this team back lol

 

[LowLifeMac]

Packers stopped being a dominant team when the NFC west became the toughest division in football...then after that faded the panthers and the falcons took over with handing them consistent L’s.

 

[Clyde Frog]

again, he was fine the first decade, which includes the flynn stuff. but these past 3 years he's been more of a detriment. it's easy to use injuries, cap, etc as excuses but the team is so poorly coached. i don't feel like writing a novel about it either and i'm not sure what available replacement is out there at the moment, but i just know this team is meddling with the current coaching staff. i always give credit where it's due, but this team has been winning in spite of him recently, not because of him.

they're still always gonna be in the playoff/championship hunt and yes i understand it's hard to win, but there's no way you can tell me he isn't holding this team back lol

fair enough. like i said its at the very least a dilemma. do we go the Sean Payton route and hold tight or roll the dice with an alternative.

gute is kind of an x-factor in this. considering the first thing he did was cut Jordy and do his own thing and change the culture a bit. he really might fire MM

 

[second2nonee]

Why are you a Packers fan?

my dad was basically a packers fan when the oilers were gone so i always just followed them since then. plus it didn't hurt that favre and rodgers are two of my fav players ever

but if the packers ever played the texans in the superbowl, i'd probably cheer for the texans. although it'd be a win-win lol

 

[Clyde Frog]

Packers stopped being a dominant team when the NFC west became the toughest division in football...then after that faded the panthers and the falcons took over with handing them consistent L’s.

Packers were dominant in 2014. it was a Super Bowl team that was on the wrong side of a miracle. barring a miracle none of this might not even be a discussion.

2010, 2011, and 2014 were our 3 legitimate Super Bowl contending teams.

 

[DeadsetAce]

Shannon only looks smart when he argues with Skip. outside of that, dude is all over the place

Prime and LT

 

[second2nonee]

fair enough. like i said its at the very least a dilemma. do we go the Sean Payton route and hold tight or roll the dice with an alternative.

gute is kind of an x-factor in this. considering the first thing he did was cut Jordy and do his own thing and change the culture a bit. he really might fire MM

the thing with sean payton is at least he's adjusted to the modern nfl. the saints offense is so versatile every year.

the packers offensive scheme makes no sense. it just relies on the receivers to get open and for rodgers to make tight window throws. there's no damn design. the offense they ran with jennings, driver, jordy, etc in the early 2010's was so much more fluid and "ahead" of its time. there's no damn wrinkles. it's predictable and conservative.

the main reason i want mccarthy gone is because i haven't seen him adjust in this landscape of the nfl.

 

[IATT]

Prime and LT

Can only stand prime in small doses.. and fake LT really ain't cut out for it

 

[Clyde Frog]

the thing with sean payton is at least he's adjusted to the modern nfl. the saints offense is so versatile every year.

the packers offensive scheme makes no sense. it just relies on the receivers to get open and for rodgers to make tight window throws. there's no damn design. the offense they ran with jennings, driver, jordy, etc in the early 2010's was so much more fluid and "ahead" of its time. there's no damn wrinkles. it's predictable and conservative.

the main reason i want mccarthy gone is because i haven't seen him adjust in this landscape of the nfl.

i agree with you, thats the source of frustration im sensing. Payton also had an entire roster overhaul in order to adjust as well. something to consider.

 

[651akathepaul]

McCarthy is beyond trash at this point. But I don't care if GB keeps him at all. Nobody is worried about GB anymore, even though certain announcers want you to think they are. Always competitive with Rodgers, but definitely beatable and easily exploitable.

 

[Clyde Frog]

Kamara is why i impulsively want Bell tbh lol. Gurley too.

despite the negative perception on RB's

Gute said he's gonna be active in FA and has the balls to do it too