Any Programmers on NT?

[capital sb]

yea my job is looking for a ton of ppl with that background but with experience. Thats the funny thing about IT, there are TONS of jobs but they dont want to train you, they want you to have experience, but IT has so many areas that its hard to be truly well rounded, people are simply just good at what they do. Companies would be better off just taking Junior level employees, sending them to these MS programs and giving them a salary bump upon completion.

Its impossible to be well rounded in IT, you really don't want to be a jack of all trades in this field, because you won't master anything. It pays to be the subject matter expert in IT, not the jack of all trades.

I understand why companies aren't willing to hire people with 0 experience, it only works for Jr level positions. Companies have  Leadership & Development programs where they hire Jr level people train them , send them to school , and move them up the ranks quickly, but they are very competitive and hard to get into. For regular Jr level positions you are pretty much getting paid to learn and to be trained.

I think the best way to gain experience in IT is to do it during school (internships) , or if you want to switch into a different IT field obtain the MS through your company then try to switch to that position within your company.

 

[AZwildcats]

Life's hard out here for a CS student, this discrete math is kicking my ***

 

[luckyluchiano]

Its impossible to be well rounded in IT, you really don't want to be a jack of all trades in this field, because you won't master anything. It pays to be the subject matter expert in IT, not the jack of all trades.

I understand why companies aren't willing to hire people with 0 experience, it only works for Jr level positions. Companies have  Leadership & Development programs where they hire Jr level people train them , send them to school , and move them up the ranks quickly, but they are very competitive and hard to get into. For regular Jr level positions you are pretty much getting paid to learn and to be trained.

I think the best way to gain experience in IT is to do it during school (internships) , or if you want to switch into a different IT field obtain the MS through your company then try to switch to that position within your company.

Yea I got my "experience" working in my schools IT dept, Computer Dept at Best Buy, and Sales roles in the Wireless Industry, plus I got a good mouth piece. In todays world it seems entry level roles are literally non existent, the key is getting into a Development Program. I will say with IT once you get 4-5 yrs experience in a role the world is yours, and you can get a gig anywhere in your industry.

 

[capital sb]

@LuckyLuciano I agree the world is yours in IT just depends which route you want to take. Being a great talker and people persons puts you ahead of the pack in IT, most people are super introverted in this field which only limits your success.

 

[osek206]

^^ Thanks for the information this whole area is strange to me. Nobody wants to train anybody and your basically
expected to know these complex topics out of college or via a internship if you were thinking ahead back in college.

I'm looking to switch careers basically now and learning programming languages and such. I've always liked hacking
and different security systems, but it truly feels like you could get a MS and still be doomed. The only thing in your
favor is living in the DMV area? Is there anyone that's done relatively well on certification's and a B.S?

 

[luckyluchiano]

^^ Thanks for the information this whole area is strange to me. Nobody wants to train anybody and your basically
expected to know these complex topics out of college or via a internship if you were thinking ahead back in college.

I'm looking to switch careers basically now and learning programming languages and such. I've always liked hacking
and different security systems, but it truly feels like you could get a MS and still be doomed. The only thing in your
favor is living in the DMV area? Is there anyone that's done relatively well on certification's and a B.S?

I wouldn't worry about an advance degree until you have a job. Soooooo many folks in all areas getting MBAs,MS,Phds and haven't even worked an entry level job. My word of advice is get a job in the company you want no matter the role. For Ex. Say you got your degree and enjoy the wireless industry, get a sales job with VZW or ATT, and put in a year of work, during that year look at the various job openings that are posted internally, look at what they require, most companies will reimburse you on classes you take as long as it aligns with the company. So if you see the position asks for knowledge of Unix or something, and the company has tuition reimbursement, have them pay for the class at a local CC. You will have preference over someone outside of the company because 1.You are in the company and know the culture already. 2. Its cheaper to higher internally, 3.You can have a gist of how the role impacts the company as a whole, so you will interview better than someone who was never in the company. I always tell people get jobs that makes sense, if you work retail work for someone you wouldn't mind working at their corporate offices. Every job I've had has been in the Tech realm one way or another, so even though I had 3-4 yrs of sales experience, it was easy for me to apply the knowledge I gained on those jobs to get the next job, as you can and will be taught the daily operations of your job,but having knowledge of the industry will put you ahead of a lot of new hires.

 

[osek206]

I wouldn't worry about an advance degree until you have a job. Soooooo many folks in all areas getting MBAs,MS,Phds and haven't even worked an entry level job. My word of advice is get a job in the company you want no matter the role. For Ex. Say you got your degree and enjoy the wireless industry, get a sales job with VZW or ATT, and put in a year of work, during that year look at the various job openings that are posted internally, look at what they require, most companies will reimburse you on classes you take as long as it aligns with the company. So if you see the position asks for knowledge of Unix or something, and the company has tuition reimbursement, have them pay for the class at a local CC. You will have preference over someone outside of the company because 1.You are in the company and know the culture already. 2. Its cheaper to higher internally, 3.You can have a gist of how the role impacts the company as a whole, so you will interview better than someone who was never in the company. I always tell people get jobs that makes sense, if you work retail work for someone you wouldn't mind working at their corporate offices. Every job I've had has been in the Tech realm one way or another, so even though I had 3-4 yrs of sales experience, it was easy for me to apply the knowledge I gained on those jobs to get the next job, as you can and will be taught the daily operations of your job,but having knowledge of the industry will put you ahead of a lot of new hires.

Great advice! thanks.

 

[capital sb]

Lucky is spot on. If you didn't get a job with a BS don't make the mistake of going to get an MS to land a job. You will be considered overqualified for entry level positions.
I suggest getting a job first with a BS, then while with the company have them pay for the MS and certs. Don't pay out of pocket for higher education or certs ! Unless you have to.

@Osek206
DMV wouldn't be my only advantage, my advantage would be that the Cyber field is in high demand and is undersaturated , I will have the clearance they are looking for, very young so I can be trained, and I network a lot to open doors. All of the cities that are in demand of Cyber professionals are major cities that I wouldn't mind working in, except for a few .

I am not sure what your exact background is, so I could only give general advice. What kind of work are you doing now? What kind of work do you want to do?

There are a lot of jobs in the area and I am declining new job opportunities every week. I can only imagine how valuable a cleared Cyber Sec professional is in the area, or even out in Cali. Its something I am really interested in pursuing after a few years of doing software development. A MS in Cyber Security is probably my only way in unless I decided to pursue the field within my first few years out of school, which I don't want to do.

Edit: heres a pic I took today at the business park I work at

View media item 1444774It's real out here (even though the event already passed). Signs posted out here daily, saw one company offering 30K signing bonus .

 

[tay1]

With that Sony hack and just the increase of importance that computers play in our lives, I'm not surprised that there's a bump in interest in cybersecurity.

How do you guys feel about internships and all that? I know it's best for me to eventually do one, but I have close to no experience at this moment. I'm barely learning c++ at this point, and I would expect that they would want me coming in with some knowledge. I just wouldn't want to come in with 0 experience and make a fool of myself. Do they teach you things, or are you in the dark and just have to figure stuff out?

 

[illl48]

im lookin for an entry level job right now.
i suggest you learn java first, its easier than cpp, you dont need to handle pointer and memory. Then study data structure and algorithm. after you have some knowledge, go check a website called leetcode.

then you can go apply for an intern

 

[osek206]

Wow, always was into computers so it's not something I really lack in skills. I choose to enter the environment field which was a huge bust. Environmental health and safety which is filled with 30+ experience old guys that don't want to leave.

After 2 years and a few months I'm close to max out making close to 70k. No real room to advance because people aren't leaving in a broad field. My supervisor has no degree at management level and no environmental experience making probably 85k and has difficulty reading.. Smfh

Anyway I'm interested in cyber security or front end /backend development. I'd like a culture change in the workplace. I'd rather be around younger talented individuals. If the cyber field had some certificate that made since I would be all over it.

 

[tomdiginson]

I'm trying to get into the information and security field, just gotta get a good feel for this networking jazz .

 

[capital sb]

For anyone that thinks that 30K signing bonus is ducktales (forgot i took a pic of it)

View media item 1445090
tay1 Your mentality is what holds a lot of back people from being successful while in college which then leads to struggling to land a job post graduation.

They don't expect you to have any experience and they expect you to make mistakes this applies to Jr level positions also. All they care about is that you know the CONCEPTS, willing to learn ,and work hard. There is no thing of making a fool of yourself, its an internship it is for you to learn and gain experience from people that have been in the field for 20+ years.

I had 3 different internships while in school, I interned during every single break all 4.5 years . First internship was in the IT department at a bank (help desk), second was with the DOD (systems engineer) , and third was with a defense contractor (software developer). Those internships are why I am where I am now.

My advice to you and everyone else in here is to get an internship your very first summer in school. Start applying for summer internships in the fall (September/October) this is when companies do their summer intern recruiting/hiring. Apply to EVERYTHING, and be willing to relocate to different states (i can explain how if you want). After landing the first internship try to go back during winter break if possible, then start applying for your second internship during the fall again. It is best to get a different internship every summer this will open up endless doors upon graduation. Good luck!

Sorry for the long post , but this knowledge needs to be spread. This formula works ! I have plenty of stories/examples.

Edit: Also attend all career fairs the major ones like NSBE,BEYA, IEEE, etc any major engineering org, and school career fairs. Career fairs are also the other key to success!