are rap/hiphop fans the least educated in their genre's history

[trickdaddy305]

figures dudes name would be iron chef lmao ....feel free to neg me , well deserved 

but yea the purple tape lmao its been a while since i even typed out tape...

all these red albums, yellow album etc i must have had a brain fart

any who , my examples weren't literal just random things i came up with 

i love all rap , from chief keef to kool g  , it is what it is

but the other day there was a little get together at my boys crib , just some

boppers and dudes lounging smoking etc and i put mtv jams

on and some people get on da couch with me and their talking about

how much they love juicy j , 3 6 etc .....and mtv jamz then proceeds to go 

on this 3 6 spree.... project pat , lil wyte , gangsta boo etc .everyones kinda

dumbfounded  and doesnt know who anyobody really is .....i tried to 

teach them a little bit without being condescending lmao , i mean to each

their own,  i dont like getting teachy  with music but it seems like hip hop fans know the least about

the genre's history.

 

[illphillip]

The SONGS themselves...not the artists themselves.

Dude is asking us to quote old music. 

Fans of other genres are pretty good at revering old SONGS.

You said it's a "young man's game". Not a "new song's game".

Man=song? OK.

You mean new songs are more relevant today than old songs? Impressive analysis.

Plenty of Hip Hop fans revere old songs. Plenty of younger Hip Hop fans know older Hip Hop.

And I think you guys are overestimating how much younger fans really listen to classic rock/r+b/Pop etc.

Keep in mind you are also talking about a genre that is about 30 years old. Not a massive sample size.

Carry on.

 

[trickdaddy305]

its cuz rap is still fairly new... them _s back in the day sucked... go back 30 years in rock u got classics upon classics... nobody wanna hear krs one or any of them old ******... **** just doesnt compare as far as song making or lyricism... to me rap didnt exist til 92 cuz that other **** sounds so damn primitive its unlistenable thru my ears

dudes like rakim , kool g and krs one are the reason rap even developed into what it is

"the message" was made damn near thirty years ago and people are still quoting "it's like a 

jungle sometimes it makes me wonder how i keep from going under" krs one inspired 50 , ross

has sampled plenty of old 80's music like special ed's "im the magnificent with the sensational style"  ,

even rappers delight last verse has probably been the creator of dozen's of hooks/bars

for other rappers

if any of you have music choice on your tv provider theres a classic hip hop channel

that just plays classic hip hop  , if your just on the computer or just chillin throw it on

...i feel u on some of it , if not most of it being outdated .... but theres alot of hidden gems

it doesnt help that most older rappers are mad bitter

 

[hugebird]

This thread is among one of the dumber that I've read on here in a while, and that's saying something.

 

[Kimchi Papi]

This thread is among one of the dumber that I've read on here in a while, and that's saying something.

Says the guy with the Bob Sura avy...JK...

 

[matt53]

For once I actually sorta agree with FutureMD though; despite the fact that the musician's themselves are over 30, the content of the music they make isn't really that appealing to men in their age group. In all reality, most adult working men cannot relate to rapper's getting drunk in Paris, Lamborghini Merci's, or Beez'in in the trap. The demographic that modern rap music is geared towards is almost specifically kids between 14-24 years old so even from that standpoint alone, the music can only age in a nostalgic sense as opposed to a quality standpoint

 

[futuremd]

The SONGS themselves...not the artists themselves.

Dude is asking us to quote old music. 

Fans of other genres are pretty good at revering old SONGS.

You said it's a "young man's game". Not a "new song's game".
 

I stand by my original statement. Some artists (very few) have been able to last, but they don't make music representative of where they are in life, most of it is made to appeal to younger audiences as they, themselves age.

I can only think of a few mainstream artists who've managed to make music pertaining to their age and maturity recently off the top fo my head. Thats Nas, Jay-Z (around the time of Kingdom Come), and dudes with a smaller following like Phonte etc.

Most of these other rappers are 30+ rapping like they're 18. 

Remember. 2 Chainz is 36. Nas is 39. Rick Ross is 36.

Something ain't clicking there. 

Man=song? OK.

You know what I meant...unless you're nitpicking to create an argument out of thin air.

Like I said, being an older rapper doesn't mean anything if you're making age "appropriate" music. And lets remove the obvious notion that a 40 year old should for the most part be struggling to relate to a 21 year old musically at least. 

You mean new songs are more relevant today than old songs? Impressive analysis.

Thats not even the same thing. 

Other genres value older content far more than rap does. Sampling is very much apart of rap...but thats sampling. The listening of the originals is a completely different story. Sans a few hits that manage to have mainstream success, most rap songs (including many of those same hits) don't age well. 

Plenty of Hip Hop fans revere old songs. Plenty of younger Hip Hop fans know older Hip Hop.

Depends what you mean by "plenty"

More than 10 people? Well sure. 

There is some great stuff from a previous generation, but most of it doesn't have the technical genius of breakthrough that is as evident as with other genres.

See, if you listen to older rap, you're listening to music that was somewhat un-evolved. You can listen to more progressive lyrics content or what not depending on the selection, but the sound itself doesn't really translate that well to the present day. However with other genres, if you're listening to that content it seems to hold its own somewhat...it sounds innovative in its own right. Unique. Its hard for me to explain, at least thats how I perceive a lot of older rap music. 

Don't forget that you're surrounded by people who pride themselves on being "of the culture" so being some what of a rap elitist might be unrecognizable to you as someone who is in the mix. To you it might be normal. 

And I think you guys are overestimating how much younger fans really listen to classic rock/r+b/Pop etc.

Rock and R&B? Nope. I completely disagree.

Pop, maybe. 

Keep in mind you are also talking about a genre that is about 30 years old. Not a massive sample size.

Carry on.

30 years is a long time. 

Rap isn't going to escape the criticisms of older genres forever. 

 

[00david00]

Rap/Hip Hop is a much younger genre though. You might get rock fans naming more old records/artists but percentage wise it's probably even if you know what I mean.

 

[ninjahood]

its cuz rap is still fairly new... them _s back in the day sucked... go back 30 years in rock u got classics upon classics... nobody wanna hear krs one or any of them old ******... **** just doesnt compare as far as song making or lyricism... to me rap didnt exist til 92 cuz that other **** sounds so damn primitive its unlistenable thru my ears

umm krs one can spit though...

 

[thorrocksjs]

Older rap was more evolved that current rap it was a lot less formulaic and more guys were actively trying to be the best rapper alive and spitting complex rhyme schemes and expirementing with their sound .Todays crop of rappers don't even do half of that.These young dudes jamming rock aren't going back listening to Johnny Cash or beach boys,These dudes don't know about 247 spies or Bad Brains or HELL.This guy putty doesn't know what he is talking about at all. those same critics from other genres don't even care for rap and we don't even care for their critics same dudes that think rap requires no talent ,no skill etc.Putty has no clue what he is talking about.

I really wish dude would go crawl under a bridge a
Ready.

 

[jbpkickz]

its cuz rap is still fairly new... them _s back in the day sucked... go back 30 years in rock u got classics upon classics... nobody wanna hear krs one or any of them old ******... **** just doesnt compare as far as song making or lyricism... to me rap didnt exist til 92 cuz that other **** sounds so damn primitive its unlistenable thru my ears

 

[futuremd]

Older rap was more evolved that current rap it was a lot less formulaic and more guys were actively trying to be the best rapper alive and spitting complex rhyme schemes and expirementing with their sound .Todays crop of rappers don't even do half of that.These young dudes jamming rock aren't going back listening to Johnny Cash or beach boys,These dudes don't know about 247 spies or Bad Brains or HELL.This guy putty doesn't know what he is talking about at all. those same critics from other genres don't even care for rap and we don't even care for their critics same dudes that think rap requires no talent ,no skill etc.Putty has no clue what he is talking about.

I really wish dude would go crawl under a bridge a
Ready.

Eh...Its arguable that they were more experimental, but to what degree? Thats discrediting dudes like Kanye, Cudi, or Wiz who in their own right have done what we wouldn't have expected from "rap" music 20 years ago. 

Suburban rap is certainly a thing now. 

The point that a lot of the pop songs sound a like isn't anything new. Thats what popular music does...but to assert that whats big now is the same sound that existed 4 years ago just isn't true. Its all different and slightly unique. 

I do agree that rap fans should stop caring about what the people at Pitchfork and other NON-rap oriented sources have to say about rap/hip-hop music. 

Oh...and rap "talent" isn't really a thing in my eyes if you're just going to speak vaguely. Don't confuse lyrical complexity with being any more than that. That doesn't make good music, nor does a bunch of punchlines on a lazy beat. I'm glad that there are more accepted forms of rap music now than there were before. I don't think thats really even debatable. I do enjoy a technically gifted artist, but if they're wasting the lyrics a-la busta rhymes on "look at me now" or some Kendrick Lamar songs where dudes equate quick rapping to "quality" when sometimes he isn't saying that much (lets be honest) then yeah that aspect goes out of the window. 

The internet has given rise to the careers of a lot of dudes who wouldn't have been given mainstream looks if they hadn't exposed audiences to their own flavor.  

 

[Peep Game]

The internet has given rise to the careers of a lot of dudes who wouldn't have been given mainstream looks if they hadn't exposed audiences to their own flavor.  

For better or worse.Unfortunately mostly worse. Everyone at any time thinks they can rap, and there's no filter at all, pretty much making a joke of the entire genre.

Spoiler

its cuz rap is still fairly new... them _s back in the day sucked... go back 30 years in rock u got classics upon classics... nobody wanna hear krs one or any of them old ******... **** just doesnt compare as far as song making or lyricism... to me rap didnt exist til 92 cuz that other **** sounds so damn primitive its unlistenable thru my ears

umm krs one can spit though...

Yep.





"**** just don't compare as far as song making or lyricisim...to me rap didnt exist til 92 cuz that other **** sounds so damn primitive..."

WHAT?

 

[finallyfamous]

I'm 22 I feel the same way about people in my age group but I'm educated enough to kno hip hop and rap is not close as meaningful as it use to be.

 

[thorrocksjs]

Eh...Its arguable that they were more experimental, but to what degree? Thats discrediting dudes like Kanye, Cudi, or Wiz who in their own right have done what we wouldn't have expected from "rap" music 20 years ago. 

Suburban rap is certainly a thing now. 

The point that a lot of the pop songs sound a like isn't anything new. Thats what popular music does...but to assert that whats big now is the same sound that existed 4 years ago just isn't true. Its all different and slightly unique. 

I do agree that rap fans should stop caring about what the people at Pitchfork and other NON-rap oriented sources have to say about rap/hip-hop music. 

Oh...and rap "talent" isn't really a thing in my eyes if you're just going to speak vaguely. Don't confuse lyrical complexity with being any more than that. That doesn't make good music, nor does a bunch of punchlines on a lazy beat. I'm glad that there are more accepted forms of rap music now than there were before. I don't think thats really even debatable. I do enjoy a technically gifted artist, but if they're wasting the lyrics a-la busta rhymes on "look at me now" or some Kendrick Lamar songs where dudes equate quick rapping to "quality" when sometimes he isn't saying that much (lets be honest) then yeah that aspect goes out of the window. 

The internet has given rise to the careers of a lot of dudes who wouldn't have been given mainstream looks if they hadn't exposed audiences to their own flavor.  

Scott Mescudi isnt reinventing anything at all his cds dont even fall in the category of rap he is in the pop section. Wiz isnt reinventing anythng stoner rap has been around for the longest keith murray and redman atleast did while being clever and so did Snoop to a degree shot not too mention cypress hill. Kanye isnt doing anything to push his lyrical content or beats to the next level

Lyrical content and actual content in hip hop is lacking beats are getting to formulaic. Albums that came out 20 years ago pushed the enevelope further because they werent being told you need to to drop this many tracks about x subjects

 

[thatdudechris]

this is just an ignorant post. knowing trivia facts about the music you don't listen to doesn't make you a "better fan"

To me this is a troll post just to annoy hip hop fans on here and win over ppl who listen to other genres of music or actually know the answers to those questions, knowing that most ppl on here have a prejudice to newer hip hop.

 

[b smooth 202]

nobody wanna hear krs one or any of them old ******... **** just doesnt compare as far as song making or lyricism... to me rap didnt exist til 92 cuz that other **** sounds so damn primitive its unlistenable thru my ears

thats your opinion...there are plenty of people who still like that original boom bap sound...and want that sound recreated or reinvented in some way

and there's no filter at all, pretty much making a joke of the entire genre.

uhhh no...just because some ****** people make it as rappers doesn't make a joke of the entire game...what about all the unknowns out there who actually have something to say?

i feel like the game is slowly making the transition to better hip hop/rap music...IDK

this **** is dope as **** but I dont think that original sound is ever coming back. the scratching....

 

[futuremd]

this is just an ignorant post. knowing trivia facts about the music you don't listen to doesn't make you a "better fan"

To me this is a troll post just to annoy hip hop fans on here and win over ppl who listen to other genres of music or actually know the answers to those questions, knowing that most ppl on here have a prejudice to newer hip hop.

Repped.

Thats all this really is. A bunch of peacocking and bias against new music. 

Eh...Its arguable that they were more experimental, but to what degree? Thats discrediting dudes like Kanye, Cudi, or Wiz who in their own right have done what we wouldn't have expected from "rap" music 20 years ago. 

Suburban rap is certainly a thing now. 

The point that a lot of the pop songs sound a like isn't anything new. Thats what popular music does...but to assert that whats big now is the same sound that existed 4 years ago just isn't true. Its all different and slightly unique. 

I do agree that rap fans should stop caring about what the people at Pitchfork and other NON-rap oriented sources have to say about rap/hip-hop music. 

Oh...and rap "talent" isn't really a thing in my eyes if you're just going to speak vaguely. Don't confuse lyrical complexity with being any more than that. That doesn't make good music, nor does a bunch of punchlines on a lazy beat. I'm glad that there are more accepted forms of rap music now than there were before. I don't think thats really even debatable. I do enjoy a technically gifted artist, but if they're wasting the lyrics a-la busta rhymes on "look at me now" or some Kendrick Lamar songs where dudes equate quick rapping to "quality" when sometimes he isn't saying that much (lets be honest) then yeah that aspect goes out of the window. 

The internet has given rise to the careers of a lot of dudes who wouldn't have been given mainstream looks if they hadn't exposed audiences to their own flavor.  

Scott Mescudi isnt reinventing anything at all his cds dont even fall in the category of rap he is in the pop section. Wiz isnt reinventing anythng stoner rap has been around for the longest keith murray and redman atleast did while being clever and so did Snoop to a degree shot not too mention cypress hill. Kanye isnt doing anything to push his lyrical content or beats to the next level

Lyrical content and actual content in hip hop is lacking beats are getting to formulaic. Albums that came out 20 years ago pushed the enevelope further because they werent being told you need to to drop this many tracks about x subjects

Wait...you're saying Keith Murray and Redman being "clever" (which is subjective) is more creative than the sound Wiz and Cudi have? Wiz and Cudi wouldn't have careers without the internet and subsequently the people who support them. 

You have to remember, people are fans of what they're fans of. You don't dictate that. There is CLEARLY someone who likes it. 

Lyrical content has more or less always been where it is. You like to look at the past as some sort of "better" period when in reality it wasn't much different. They were talking about the same things in more or less words. Its really annoying when people think that having more metaphors, rapping faster, or fitting more words in makes better songs. Its just not true. 

Mainstream music is always formulaic. Thats a result of being popular. No one sees album cuts on the radio. 

 

The internet has given rise to the careers of a lot of dudes who wouldn't have been given mainstream looks if they hadn't exposed audiences to their own flavor.  

For better or worse.Unfortunately mostly worse. Everyone at any time thinks they can rap, and there's no filter at all, pretty much making a joke of the entire genre.

Not my problem. 

Rap isn't some tightly defined thing. It never was. There are obvious differences between genres though, but to act like its made it "worse" is an attempt to invalidate the legions of fans that artists have garnered...a state which is demonstrably true if you look at who come out to their shows. 

Remember, just because it isn't on some pro-black tip or contains a progressive message doesn't mean its not rap. Thats never been the case. 

You don't have to like it. 

 

[thorrocksjs]

Lyrics is the main reason why you listen to rap music you want to hear some beats by itself go jam drum and bass techno dubstep.You compare Keith Murray to Wiz and you see a vast gap in actual rapping ability .Keith and Redman were laced with hot producers too arguably top 10 of all time producers and they didnt put out halfassed garbage. Wiz says stuff like crack a window we gon smoke this indo like whoa.Mescudi moaning and groaning over rat attack whizer techno isnt rap music dude even says he isnt a rapper comparing him to folks in rap music is an insult dude is a subpar rapper at best. Mescudi has a career solely because he has crossover pop appeal wiz too his debut albums sounded nothing like his tapes .
Somebody being a better rapper makes them a better rapper being able to spit various ways makes you a better spitter overall.Its not that hard no amount of graphs charts or reddit copy pasta will fix that.Music 20 years ago in hip hop was less formulaic styles get mixed matched created improved . Internet gave alot of wack dudes the time of day to actually create an audience for themselves.

 

[Peep Game]

nobody wanna hear krs one or any of them old ******... **** just doesnt compare as far as song making or lyricism... to me rap didnt exist til 92 cuz that other **** sounds so damn primitive its unlistenable thru my ears

thats your opinion...there are plenty of people who still like that original boom bap sound...and want that sound recreated or reinvented in some way

and there's no filter at all, pretty much making a joke of the entire genre.

uhhh no...just because some ****** people make it as rappers doesn't make a joke of the entire game...what about all the unknowns out there who actually have something to say?

Rappers (or "rappers) making a joke out of the genre far outnumber the legit talented people trying to come up. You can hit youtube up right now and easily 8 out of 10 of the first artists you see are the likes of Kreayshawn, 50Tyson, and Rene Zellwegger rapping. So yea, there is no filter. You actually have to look for the good talented unknown artists, but the awful ones are plastered everywhere before you even type anything in.

Not my problem. 

Rap isn't some tightly defined thing. It never was. There are obvious differences between genres though, but to act like its made it "worse" is an attempt to invalidate the legions of fans that artists have garnered...a state which is demonstrably true if you look at who come out to their shows. 

Remember, just because it isn't on some pro-black tip or contains a progressive message doesn't mean its not rap. Thats never been the case. 

You don't have to like it. 

With the previous artists I mentioned, nah, I would definitely say it's worse off than better, and that's partly to blame on the garbage artists themselves, the fans who flock to it, and the record companies who support them.

Rap/Hip Hop consists of a large number of subjects, so it was never gonna focus on 1 thing. Rap doesn't have to be pro-black or progressive like you said, and I can atest the that cause I enjoy Gunplay, Asap Mob, and Juicy J just as much as i do Nas, GFK, and Common. The one thing is though, for a long time now, Rap/HipHop has been far too unbalanced with garbage music. Like anything in moderation is cool, but we're at the point now where it's way too far on one side and not the other, which brings it back to my original point of a lot of people making rap/hip hop a joke. If it weren't the case, then you'd have just as many Skyzoo's, Phonte's and Fashawn's getting the spotlight on them as you do Kreayshawn's, Soulja Boy's, etc.

 

[mackmittenzz]

Dam mad salt in this thread, I thought OP made a good point.. These youngins I mess wit around my way think flackas the g.o.a.t and meek mills can beat anybody in a battle

 

[cocotaso1]

Lyrics is the main reason why you listen to rap music you want to hear some beats by itself go jam drum and bass techno dubstep.You compare Keith Murray to Wiz and you see a vast gap in actual rapping ability .Keith and Redman were laced with hot producers too arguably top 10 of all time producers and they didnt put out halfassed garbage. Wiz says stuff like crack a window we gon smoke this indo like whoa.Mescudi moaning and groaning over rat attack whizer techno isnt rap music dude even says he isnt a rapper comparing him to folks in rap music is an insult dude is a subpar rapper at best. Mescudi has a career solely because he has crossover pop appeal wiz too his debut albums sounded nothing like his tapes .
Somebody being a better rapper makes them a better rapper being able to spit various ways makes you a better spitter overall.Its not that hard no amount of graphs charts or reddit copy pasta will fix that.Music 20 years ago in hip hop was less formulaic styles get mixed matched created improved . Internet gave alot of wack dudes the time of day to actually create an audience for themselves.

i appreciate good raps, but i disagree with them being the main reason for listening. whens the last time you heard an acapella as a single or on the radio? i cant recall ever seeing a battle rap cd outside of a specialty shop. how do you explain so many hit singles having basic/uncomplex lyrics? a good beat can carry a weak mc, but nobody is listening if the beat is wack. i would say the beats are the most important thing in a 70/30 -60/40 split.

 

[38816]

grave dig but

Yes, rap fans are the least educated about their own genre's history....by a long shot.


evidence enough is people calling KRS One wack.





the popularity of mumble rappers is directly correlated with them never having heard someone truly spit.

i mean, people think j cole is a lyrical monster.

because rappers are so trash now, and people have no sense of the history of the genre.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Probably but there is no " classic rap" info structure like there is for rock.

 

[ICEBERGSLIM]

Probably but there is no " classic rap" info structure like there is for rock.

stop it man.. nwa, biggie, nas, tupac, you can go on. i think we can all agree there are a few hip hop essentials, even if we can't agree on what they all are.