Congress clears historic health care bill...

[ce0 mal]

As far back as 2004 they were found in those areas, and up to recently as Feb.

Use google to find the sources, I havn't discussed the topic in a while so I don't have them on hand, specially at work.

 

[k2theablam]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Originally Posted by CE0 Mal

WMD's were found, though...

rumor has it they found a bucket of these

 

[sundoobie]

Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000

This guy really said let go of Bush, the Iraq war and WMD?

Seriously.  A disaster that cost us over trillion dollars and over 4+ thousand dead Americans and this guy tells us to just let it go.  How pathetic can you get!

Originally Posted by CE0 Mal

As far back as 2004 they were found in those areas, and up to recently as Feb.

Use google to find the sources, I havn't discussed the topic in a while so I don't have them on hand, specially at work.

What are you talking about?  Nothing was FOUND!  What part there were no WMDS were found did  you not understand?

WASHINGTON - In his final word, the CIA’s top weapons inspector in Iraq said Monday that the hunt for weapons of mass destruction has “gone as far as feasible

 

[justscoreda100]

You guys are arguing like a bunch idiots. If your not going to discuss the healthcare bill then make your own thread to bicker in.

 

[undermedicated]

Originally Posted by CE0 Mal

WMD's were found, though...

The only thing they found were old MIG's, and some Saren gas missiles that the u.s gave to them in the past.

 

[ooiron manoo]

So......

I'm guessing we are no longer talking about "ObamaCare"

This thread took a turn for the worst

...

 

[ce0 mal]

The WMD were moved into Syria as soon as the US started searching for them.

Believe me if you want, but based on what I've read through a little research of my own back when the topic was relevant, they were there/currently are there. 


http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=15918 The first actual time was in 2003 that actually qualified for WMD, and this is just one of the countless articles/times they were discovered.


(Sorry to derail the original thread)
  

 

[elgrenas]

so my question is why is the president going around trying to sell the new health care after it has passed. and why is this thing so good for us the general public but not good enough for the people who wrote this thing.

 

[sundoobie]

Originally Posted by elgrenas

so my question is why is the president going around trying to sell the new health care after it has passed. and why is this thing so good for us the general public but not good enough for the people who wrote this thing.

Because the MAN has to tell the masses in their living room that this is not ARMAGEDDON. It is not the end of the world and that the Govt will not fund the killing of babies. Also America is not becoming a communist country and that in the end, this bill will help millions of Americans.

It's good for the general public because we're middle income folks that need basic health care.  The people that wrote this thing are living in mansions and rich.  It's like saying.. hey Michael Jordan, why are you driving a Ferrari when you can just drive a Honda like the rest of us.  Hey Bill Gates why are you living in a 5 million dollar home when you can just live in a 1 bedroom apt?  Common sense my man.. common sense!

 

[jchambers]

Originally Posted by NostrandAve68

The IRONY of this whole Healthcare debacle is that these very same tea baggers if the govt said tomorrow that the funds for Social Security was depleted and couldn't be sustained and had to be done away with, these tea baggers would be marching like a Million Man March to keep SS alive. A policy that they would have tried to derail during the New Deal in the 1930's.

Sure there should be concern about the quality of health care and cost but in essence all this health care debate has been for the past year is middle age angry white people who are coming to realization that "Their America" isn't the same America anymore.

You really don't know what you are talking about. Social security funds are taken out of the checks of workers. Of course people would be mad if it failed(it will anyways due to rampant government spending). Imagine if you put money in a bank for years and when you needed it, the bank told you that it isn't there anymore because they spent it. If you all really believe that universal health care is gonna be sweet, and that it will help pay off the debt, then you need to do some research on other government programs throughout the years. The Iraq war was supposed to pay for itself too, but look at that tragedy. The post office has a monopoly on mail, and they still lose billions each year with zero profits. Social Security is another example of a failed government program. I don't know about you, but I don't want the government having access to my medical records and telling me that I have to enroll in a healthcare program. If you feel like helping people out, then do that. There's nothing wrong with charity and it is good for the soul, but I don't want them putting a gun to my head and telling me that i have to pay for someone else's kids to go to their chosen doctor. Some of you have way too much trust in the government to care for your well being.  I will agree with you on one point though, a lot of Republicans are against all of this stuff because a Democrat is in office, because they weren't tripping when Bush was destroying this country brick by brick, but now they are upset at Obama for doing the exact same thing.

 

[sundoobie]

Originally Posted by CE0 Mal

The WMD were moved into Syria as soon as the US started searching for them.

Believe me if you want, but based on what I've read through a little research of my own back when the topic was relevant, they were there/currently are there. 


http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=15918 The first actual time was in 2003 that actually qualified for WMD, and this is just one of the countless articles/times they were discovered.


(Sorry to derail the original thread)
  

I agree this is derailing the thread but still this not the WMDS GW mentioned.  These munitions predate the first gulf war. I betting Sadamm probably didn't even know he had these or he would had used them against us.  So why didn't this make HUGE media headlines and gives Bush credit... well here's the reason!

The Washington Post reported that "the U.S. military announced in 2004 in Iraq that several crates of the old shells had been uncovered and that they contained a blister agent that was no longer active." It said the shells "had been buried near the Iranian border, and then long forgotten, by Iraqi troops during their eight-year war with Iran, which ended in 1988." Neither the military nor the White House nor the CIA considered the shells to be evidence of what was alleged by the Bush administration to be a current Iraqi program to make chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.

 

[elgrenas]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by elgrenas

so my question is why is the president going around trying to sell the new health care after it has passed. and why is this thing so good for us the general public but not good enough for the people who wrote this thing.

Because the MAN has to tell the masses in their living room that this is not ARMAGEDDON. It is not the end of the world and that the Govt will not fund the killing of babies. Also America is not becoming a communist country and that in the end, this bill will help millions of Americans.

It's good for the general public because we're middle income folks that need basic health care.  The people that wrote this thing are living in mansions and rich.  It's like saying.. hey Michael Jordan, why are you driving a Ferrari when you can just drive a Honda like the rest of us.  Hey Bill Gates why are you living in a 5 million dollar home when you can just live in a 1 bedroom apt?  Common sense my man.. common sense!

common sense, my @ss  its law already.

 not that they live in mansions or !*$ like that. they excluded themselves for a reason. oh well i guess its common sense. so whats for lunch?
  

 

[jchambers]

Originally Posted by elgrenas

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by elgrenas

so my question is why is the president going around trying to sell the new health care after it has passed. and why is this thing so good for us the general public but not good enough for the people who wrote this thing.

  The people that wrote this thing are living in mansions and rich.  It's like saying.. hey Michael Jordan, why are you driving a Ferrari when you can just drive a Honda like the rest of us.  Hey Bill Gates why are you living in a 5 million dollar home when you can just live in a 1 bedroom apt?  Common sense my man.. common sense!

  

Bad analogy. It's more like saying," Michael Jordan, you drive the ferrari, and we will be required by law to buy and pay for a honda. If we have a good job and make a little more money, we will also be required to buy someone else a honda."

 

[torotrigger]

my only issue is gov't mandated care - nothing that the gov't does is efficient, profitable or a 'better option'; from the city-state-fed level

public schools blow, postal services is costing us multimillions a year, medicade is about to be bankrupt and all that social security you've been payin for years is gonna get stolen

i think its a shame that our country cannot give free medical for children to the age 16 and elderly over the age of 60-65, but outside of that i DO NOT feel bad for ANY SINGLE PERSON who cannot get their stuff together and get some form of coverage...granted it should be a little less expensive - BUT one of the big reasons it is so expensive is that 50% of people going to the hospital dont even need to fcccuking be there...what do you think is gonna happen when every crazy person is allowed as many free visits as they want? you ever chilled in an emergency room or walkin office at night or day? sh|t is maaaad weird....

i quit - im moving to france, atleast you get an angry HJ when they steal 50% of your paycheck.....

 

[sundoobie]

The Iraq war was supposed to pay for itself too, but look at that tragedy. The post office has a monopoly on mail, and they still lose billions each year with zero profits.
Can you explain how the Iraq war was to be funded by itself?  Bush cut taxes.  Trillion dollar war plus a huge decrease in tax revenue = billion dollar deficits.

I agree post office is losing money but it's a government entity and it's not suppose to profit.  Basically it's funded thru a budget so what comes in, must go out.  The problem with the post office is the overhead and employment.  The govt didn't take into consideration technology advances such as email.  Before it was able to sustain itself because if you want to send a letter, you write it out and mail it.  But folks now barely mail anything and if you send a package there other cheaper alternatives. 

Govt is not perfect. There will be fraud and there will be waste. However this bill is intended to help Americans and for the most part I am all for it.  I rather see a single mother be able to purchase health insurance for her baby then have to worry what would happen if her baby gets ill?  Or for a baby girl born with a  disease who can't get health insurance because insurance companies won't insure her due to her condition she was born with.

I agree with you though in regards to the mandate that everyone is REQUIRED to buy health insurance or face penalties in which they could garnish your wages.  This bill isn't perfect but it is what it is due to our inept Congress which includes those bonehead Republicans that refuse to compromise with the President.

 

[jchambers]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

The Iraq war was supposed to pay for itself too, but look at that tragedy. The post office has a monopoly on mail, and they still lose billions each year with zero profits.

Can you explain how the Iraq war was to be funded by itself?  Bush cut taxes.  Trillion dollar war plus a huge decrease in tax revenue = billion dollar deficits.

I agree post office is losing money but it's a government entity and it's not suppose to profit.  Basically it's funded thru a budget so what comes in, must go out.  The problem with the post office is the overhead and employment.  The govt didn't take into consideration technology advances such as email.  Before it was able to sustain itself because if you want to send a letter, you write it out and mail it.  But folks now barely mail anything and if you send a package there other cheaper alternatives. 

Govt is not perfect. There will be fraud and there will be waste. However this bill is intended to help Americans and for the most part I am all for it.  I rather see a single mother be able to purchase health insurance for her baby then have to worry what would happen if her baby gets ill?  Or for a baby girl born with a  disease who can't get health insurance because insurance companies won't insure her due to her condition she was born with.

I agree with you though in regards to the mandate that everyone is REQUIRED to buy health insurance or face penalties in which they could garnish your wages.  This bill isn't perfect but it is what it is due to our inept Congress which includes those bonehead Republicans that refuse to compromise with the President.

I never believed that the Iraq war would pay for itself. That is what was sold to the American public through the mainstream media, though. Here's a list of quotes on the subject:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080331/navasky_cerf

Go tell UPS, DHL and Fedex that "folks barely mail anything". I guess that the government is going to just change up and handle everything perfectly now. I can't even discuss this anymore. I feel like the people of the United  States are getting everything that they deserve at this point. I'm sure the government will take care of you all now that the health care bill passed. Good luck with that. Peace.

 

[deuce king]

all this health care debate has been for the past year is middle age angry white people who are coming to realization that "Their America" isn't the same America anymore.

This is probably the best statement that has been written in this entire thread. 

 

[duba169]

they sent a package of white powder to anthony weiners office.....

the letter referenced the health care vote. these people are *@!@+$$ nuts man.
 right to his office in Queens

 

[devildog1776]

It's just another bill the tax pagers gotta foot... Arguing over this solves nothing... I'm gonna find a way to get off the books asap... The taxes are gonna start piling up in a few yrs...

 

[utvol23]

Originally Posted by ToroTrigger

my only issue is gov't mandated care - nothing that the gov't does is efficient, profitable or a 'better option'; from the city-state-fed level

public schools blow, postal services is costing us multimillions a year, medicade is about to be bankrupt and all that social security you've been payin for years is gonna get stolen

i think its a shame that our country cannot give free medical for children to the age 16 and elderly over the age of 60-65, but outside of that i DO NOT feel bad for ANY SINGLE PERSON who cannot get their stuff together and get some form of coverage...granted it should be a little less expensive - BUT one of the big reasons it is so expensive is that 50% of people going to the hospital dont even need to fcccuking be there...what do you think is gonna happen when every crazy person is allowed as many free visits as they want? you ever chilled in an emergency room or walkin office at night or day? sh|t is maaaad weird....

i quit - im moving to france, atleast you get an angry HJ when they steal 50% of your paycheck.....

Yep I said it quite a bit earlier in the thread as referenced below. I would just like to know how many of these people on this board that so strongly support this bill are in the medical field.  46% of Primary Care doc in a New England Journal survey said they would consider leaving medicine for another career field. Then there are the docs who will now just choose to go into retirement. We already have a problem with a shortage of physicians this wont help the cause.

what I said earlier:
" I am all for everyone being able to have access to care the problem is many people who dont have to pay for it ie those on MEDICAID abuse the system or use it for their drug seeking behaviors. On avg at least 50% of the people I saw in the FAST track ED were seeking pain medications many of whom had been to the ER multiple times in the past week to two weeks one person had 60 visits since JAN. another 20% had been to the ER for simple things like a simple cold that started a day or two ago something that the majority of use would never even think about going to the doctor for but they come to the ER because it is FREE for them. They pay no deductible nor do they pay any percentage of their bill."

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by DubA169

they sent a package of white powder to anthony weiners office.....

the letter referenced the health care vote. these people are *@!@+$$ nuts man.
 right to his office in Queens

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo my favorite Congressman

 

[airuphere23]

 I read this comment on Yahoo in relation to this article http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100325/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1335

 WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO TURN ON THE TV THE U.S. PRESIDENT GIVE THE FOLLOWING SPEECH?
"My Fellow Americans: As you all know, the defeat of the Iraq regime has been completed. Since congress does not want to spend any more money on this war, our mission in Iraq is complete. This morning I gave the order for a complete removal of all American forces from Iraq. This action will be complete within 30 days. It is now time to begin the reckoning.

Before me, I have two lists. One list contains the names of countries which have stood by our side during the Iraq conflict. This list is short. The United Kingdom, Spain, Bulgaria, Australia and Poland are some of the countries listed there. The other list contains every one not on the first list. Most of the world's nations are on that list. My press secretary will be distributing copies of both lists later this evening.Let me start by saying that effective immediately, foreign aid to those nations on List 2 ceases immediately and indefinitely. The money saved during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the Iraqi war. THEN EVERY YEAR THERE AFTER IT'll GO TO OUR SOCIAL SECURITY SYSTEM SO IT WONT GO BROKE IN 20 YEARS.
The American people are no longer going to pour money into third world Hell holes and watch those government leaders grow fat on corruption.Need help with a famine ? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France .
I am ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with France , Germany , and Russia .. Thanks for all your help, comrades. We are retiring from NATO as well. A special note to our neighbors. Canada is on List 2. Since we are likely to be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not pissing us off for a change.
Mexico is also on List 2 its president and his entire corrupt government really need an attitude adjustment. I will have a couple extra thousand tanks and infantry divisions sitting around. Guess where I am going to put 'em? Yep, border security. Oh, by the way, the United States is abrogating the NAFTA treaty - starting now.
We are tired of the one-way highway. Immediately, we'll be drilling for oil in Alaska- which will take care of this country's oil needs for decades to come. If you're an environmentalist who opposes this decision, I refer you to List 2 above: pick a country and move there. It is time for America to focus on its own welfare and its own citizens. Some will accuse us of isolationism. I answer them by saying, 'darn tootin.'
Nearly a century of trying to help folks live a decent life around the world has only earned us the undying enmity of just about everyone on the planet. It is time to eliminate hunger in America It is time to eliminate homelessness in America . To the nations on List 1, a final thought. Thank you guys. We owe you and we won't forget.
To the nations on List 2, a final thought: You might want to learn to speak Arabic.
God bless America .. Thank you and good night."


 

 

[spsfinest212]

Originally Posted by AirUpHere23


 I read this comment on Yahoo in relation to this article http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100325/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1335

 WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO TURN ON THE TV THE U.S. PRESIDENT GIVE THE FOLLOWING SPEECH?
"My Fellow Americans: As you all know, the defeat of the Iraq regime has been completed. Since congress does not want to spend any more money on this war, our mission in Iraq is complete. This morning I gave the order for a complete removal of all American forces from Iraq. This action will be complete within 30 days. It is now time to begin the reckoning.

Before me, I have two lists. One list contains the names of countries which have stood by our side during the Iraq conflict. This list is short. The United Kingdom, Spain, Bulgaria, Australia and Poland are some of the countries listed there. The other list contains every one not on the first list. Most of the world's nations are on that list. My press secretary will be distributing copies of both lists later this evening.Let me start by saying that effective immediately, foreign aid to those nations on List 2 ceases immediately and indefinitely. The money saved during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the Iraqi war. THEN EVERY YEAR THERE AFTER IT'll GO TO OUR SOCIAL SECURITY SYSTEM SO IT WONT GO BROKE IN 20 YEARS.
The American people are no longer going to pour money into third world Hell holes and watch those government leaders grow fat on corruption.Need help with a famine ? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France .
I am ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with France , Germany , and Russia .. Thanks for all your help, comrades. We are retiring from NATO as well. A special note to our neighbors. Canada is on List 2. Since we are likely to be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not pissing us off for a change.
Mexico is also on List 2 its president and his entire corrupt government really need an attitude adjustment. I will have a couple extra thousand tanks and infantry divisions sitting around. Guess where I am going to put 'em? Yep, border security. Oh, by the way, the United States is abrogating the NAFTA treaty - starting now.
We are tired of the one-way highway. Immediately, we'll be drilling for oil in Alaska- which will take care of this country's oil needs for decades to come. If you're an environmentalist who opposes this decision, I refer you to List 2 above: pick a country and move there. It is time for America to focus on its own welfare and its own citizens. Some will accuse us of isolationism. I answer them by saying, 'darn tootin.'
Nearly a century of trying to help folks live a decent life around the world has only earned us the undying enmity of just about everyone on the planet. It is time to eliminate hunger in America It is time to eliminate homelessness in America . To the nations on List 1, a final thought. Thank you guys. We owe you and we won't forget.
To the nations on List 2, a final thought: You might want to learn to speak Arabic.
God bless America .. Thank you and good night."


 

That was probably written by this guy...

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by ToroTrigger

my only issue is gov't mandated care - nothing that the gov't does is efficient, profitable or a 'better option'; from the city-state-fed level

public schools blow, postal services is costing us multimillions a year, medicade is about to be bankrupt and all that social security you've been payin for years is gonna get stolen

i think its a shame that our country cannot give free medical for children to the age 16 and elderly over the age of 60-65, but outside of that i DO NOT feel bad for ANY SINGLE PERSON who cannot get their stuff together and get some form of coverage...granted it should be a little less expensive - BUT one of the big reasons it is so expensive is that 50% of people going to the hospital dont even need to fcccuking be there...what do you think is gonna happen when every crazy person is allowed as many free visits as they want? you ever chilled in an emergency room or walkin office at night or day? sh|t is maaaad weird....

i quit - im moving to france, atleast you get an angry HJ when they steal 50% of your paycheck.....

A good majority of the things the government runs are efficient. Not 100% efficient of course but no Capitalistic Business runs 100% efficiently.There will always be loopholes and people gaming off the system but that will happen even if the government spent 0 money... And tell me the post office isn't efficient send a small package (i.e. a hat or sneakers) and it will get to a place for equal cost of UPS and Fedex and quicker... Try letters or documents... It costs $.44 cents to mail a letter.... $.44 cents... That's it.. The problem with the post office is 2 things 1. Cost of workers... 2. New technology.. New technology has killed the post office. If there was no email you think the post office would be losing money.. The answer is not get rid of the post office, the answer is change it's service allow for them to do things UPS does in terms of larger packages.. Secondly they do not need profit in health care.. That is the biggest problem. The health care industry is powered by the least careful thing in mankind, MONEY. Insurance Companies exist to make money, not to provide you insurance..

Medicare & Social Security were running surpluses for a long time and those surpluses were getting spent on wars, and defense... If we had politicians with more foresight we would not have the problems with the system as we are... Ask people on Medicare how well it works for them they for the most part will tell you it is good.. Ask the elderly what they would do without Social Security... They would say starve....  The purpose of these programs are to help people is to help people. So if that is the bench mark they work pretty damn efficiently.

The reason they go to the emergency room is because that is the only place they can go.. Emergency Rooms can't deny you care, if they could people would be dead all over sidewalks outside of hospitals... When the people do get the attention it is by no way fixed it is only a "patch up on a busted pipe" sooner or later it will blow and they need to go again.... And what would happen they don't get unlimited visits, it is not monopoly.. They go to a Primary care doctor for colds, flu, check ups & physicals, dentist for mouth pain, etc... If it is an emergency they go to the emergency room what it is intended for... Right now without insurance they go to the emergency room so that is what drives your costs up.. What would make the most sense is to help them get insurance so your costs go down..

Man you should have been in the U.S. when it was socialist state and it's most prosperous in the late 1940's - 1960's... The tax rate was between 75-91%

 

[duba169]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by DubA169

they sent a package of white powder to anthony weiners office.....

the letter referenced the health care vote. these people are *@!@+$$ nuts man.
 right to his office in Queens

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo my favorite Congressman

mine too

always see him on bill mahr and the daily show. seems like he has balls.

on another note i'm highly disappointed that there hasn't been a new daily show since this passed. gota be good material.