How being a Doctor Became the Most Miserable Profession

[youngdoc]

 
I wanted to be a doctor too..

Unfortunately im not a fan of wasting away in my 20's with my head buried in books pulling slave hours for slave wages.

Switched majors after I took my first bio class

My cousin is in residency and makes 50-60K. But that's only for 2 years. In no time, she'll be pushing close to $200K.

I'm unaware of any residency that lasts only 2 years.

The shortest are primary care and some EM ones which are 3 years.

And people look at the salaries without including the loans, the hours, the overhead such as malpractice and the day to day stress

Now being a doctor isn't the worst profession or even close to it but is it worth 7-14 years of training post college and up to 300K in debt?

 

[utvol23]

Three00ZeeX, are you in private or academic EM? How does the group or hospital you are working stress about keeping the patient happy. In the private fields around my area you better keep the patient happy or you are liable to lose your job. If they want that CT of their head and you dont do it and they complain it can be trouble. Tt is an even harder line to walk with those seeking narcs.

Medicine is going away from the dr being able to practice medicine based on pt history and physical and more so making sure you satisfy the patient even if a study or test isnt indicated. Whats even worse is that studies show and inverse correlation between patient satisfaction and outcomes. I think it was even stated in this article

 

[youngdoc]

why my mom picked dentist instead

i know people among both an they dentist are happier

anything specialized....

i know a dermatologist in greenwich life is great, anything better than MD

Not sure I follow.

A dermatologist is a MD (or in rare cases a DO)

 

[youngdoc]

Damn, you made it. But I think rad was a 4-year res?

I start med school in August, and although I understand the importance of actually enjoying the specialty I end up picking, I can't help but think about my loans and want to aim for the upper-echelon specialties like rad, derm, and anesth.

Rads is intern year plus 4 years plus fellowship which nearly everyone has to do nowadays. So it really totals out to 5 mandatory years with one additional optional years which most all people do in order to be competitive

With the new boards set up pretty much everyone does a fellowship.

Some do two or three because they can't get a job

 

[rell826]

For those who are in medicine, what do you think the role of physicians having to treat after the fact has to do with the misery? Would teaching and emphasizing preventative care make everyone's job that much easier?

 

[ice city fc]

Sorry but that article was ****. I don't doubt for a second that the small list of problems presented are very real and need addressing but that article was a sob story from top to bottom it reads like a very poor melodrama.  The writer's message would be taken more seriously without the dramatics.

 

[Bruce Banner]

You guys are really scaring me , I've been tossing and turning for the past year when I first started College , my dream was to be an MD my whole life , but the fact that I know I'm gonna spend the rest of my 20s in school really bother me , but at the same time nothing in this life come easy . And I know for a fact that I'm gonna rack up on loans but this article just scare the hell out of me , every time I attend the E.R or my physician office I always try my best to have a conversation with them re guarding their profession , some even reply that if they had a chance they would take a different path . Btw I wanted to be a obgyn or physician and I've always wanted to make a difference since there's a lack of black scientists or just in general in the medical field .


And there's no such thing as "don't do it for the money you'll be miserable " this one chick in my chem class is a pharm tech she toll me straight she doesn't care about anything but to get this 100k a year since all the pharmacist do is supervise their work .

 

[youngdoc]

After witnessing firsthand how tough OB is I wouldn't recommend that path to anyone

The hours, stress and malpractice is ridiculous

 

[beh235]

And there's no such thing as "don't do it for the money you'll be miserable " this one chick in my chem class is a pharm tech she toll me straight she doesn't care about anything but to get this 100k a year since all the pharmacist do is supervise their work .

Orly? No matter what you do in life, you have to enjoy it or it becomes a chore. Money simply isn't the best incentive. I feel bad for her and that outlook she has.

 

[wayniac211]

The day I caught my physician googling meds for my arthritis/gout was the day I went back to blazing .

 

[Brownstone]

 
i work in an ER and one of the patients who came in was a suicidal physician.  slit his wrists down the street not accross, stuck a knife in his neck and twisted it.

he lived though

Some Doctor, couldn't even catch his own carotid artery 

 

My father has his own family practice in the medical field, it's tiring hours. I mean 6 am to 12 am hours. Sure he is well-off, but it can't be about the money otherwise you get situations like these.

Not to mention a pending lawsuit a couple times a year on average. 

 

[three00zeex]

Three00ZeeX, are you in private or academic EM? How does the group or hospital you are working stress about keeping the patient happy. In the private fields around my area you better keep the patient happy or you are liable to lose your job. If they want that CT of their head and you dont do it and they complain it can be trouble. Tt is an even harder line to walk with those seeking narcs.

Medicine is going away from the dr being able to practice medicine based on pt history and physical and more so making sure you satisfy the patient even if a study or test isnt indicated. Whats even worse is that studies show and inverse correlation between patient satisfaction and outcomes. I think it was even stated in this article

i work in both environments currently. it is definitely all about patient satisfaction everywhere you look nowadays, especially in the private sector. Press Ganey this, satisfaction scores that. it is really a pain in the ***.

i can only tell you how it is from an ER standpoint and trust me it is ridiculous! so with Press Ganey, only patients who are discharged from the ER will randomly get sent surveys to fill out about their visit.
Now look at it from my perspective.. i have 15-20 patients that I am seeing at the same time... some could be ICU patients, some could be crashing near death, and then theres someone with an ankle sprain or toothache who had to wait an extra 45 minutes to be seen... the icu patients or the guys life that i saved wont ever fill out a survey for me because they got admitted to the hospital... however the guy who was upset he didnt get any pain medicine for his toothache will get that survey, say he had to wait x amount of minutes and the doctor only spent x amount of time with me, can give me lousy scores and that can effect my pay. crazy huh?
theres a couple hospitals around here that really take pride in their satisfaction scores and if the doctors scores do not keep up, theyre gone... regardless of the situation i.e. the scenario i just laid out.

 

[three00zeex]

You guys are really scaring me , I've been tossing and turning for the past year when I first started College , my dream was to be an MD my whole life , but the fact that I know I'm gonna spend the rest of my 20s in school really bother me , but at the same time nothing in this life come easy . And I know for a fact that I'm gonna rack up on loans but this article just scare the hell out of me , every time I attend the E.R or my physician office I always try my best to have a conversation with them re guarding their profession , some even reply that if they had a chance they would take a different path . Btw I wanted to be a obgyn or physician and I've always wanted to make a difference since there's a lack of black scientists or just in general in the medical field .


And there's no such thing as "don't do it for the money you'll be miserable " this one chick in my chem class is a pharm tech she toll me straight she doesn't care about anything but to get this 100k a year since all the pharmacist do is supervise their work .

There are numerous ways to make a difference in the world... dont become a doctor just for this reason. If after you have shadowed/volunteered and really think that medicine is for you, then by all means go for it.

 

[mkc1983]

didn't read it, but I've heard from a few in the field that said if you want to become a doctor just for the money, then you'll end up becoming miserable.

 

[mivish06]

There are numerous ways to make a difference in the world... dont become a doctor just for this reason. If after you have shadowed/volunteered and really think that medicine is for you, then by all means go for it.

I'm taking the MCAT in october, I'm nervous but getting better with practice. I was planning on going into EM, as I hear the residency isn't as long, and the lifestyle isn't bad as work hours are flexible...and pay is good as well. Can you tell me a little more about your daily week, and if it's as tiring or forgiving as people may think? thanks

 

[utvol23]

i work in both environments currently. it is definitely all about patient satisfaction everywhere you look nowadays, especially in the private sector. Press Ganey this, satisfaction scores that. it is really a pain in the ***.

i can only tell you how it is from an ER standpoint and trust me it is ridiculous! so with Press Ganey, only patients who are discharged from the ER will randomly get sent surveys to fill out about their visit.
Now look at it from my perspective.. i have 15-20 patients that I am seeing at the same time... some could be ICU patients, some could be crashing near death, and then theres someone with an ankle sprain or toothache who had to wait an extra 45 minutes to be seen... the icu patients or the guys life that i saved wont ever fill out a survey for me because they got admitted to the hospital... however the guy who was upset he didnt get any pain medicine for his toothache will get that survey, say he had to wait x amount of minutes and the doctor only spent x amount of time with me, can give me lousy scores and that can effect my pay. crazy huh?
theres a couple hospitals around here that really take pride in their satisfaction scores and if the doctors scores do not keep up, theyre gone... regardless of the situation i.e. the scenario i just laid out.

I hear ya man my wife is an ER attending as well and this stuff is pervasive through her world as well. Like you were saying they survey patients at random throughout the hospital about stuff like cleanliness and if it was quiet enough at night, if someone was available to change your tv channel or answer the phone for you and if you dont meet a certain then for medicare/medicaid patients the government will not reimburse the hospital.


I get the incentive to determine payment based on quality but some of it is just ridiculous and takes all the decision making out of the doctors hands

 

[youngdoc]

There are numerous ways to make a difference in the world... dont become a doctor just for this reason. If after you have shadowed/volunteered and really think that medicine is for you, then by all means go for it.

I'm taking the MCAT in october, I'm nervous but getting better with practice. I was planning on going into EM, as I hear the residency isn't as long, and the lifestyle isn't bad as work hours are flexible...and pay is good as well. Can you tell me a little more about your daily week, and if it's as tiring or forgiving as people may think? thanks

Just a heads up about EM

Many are drawn to it because the total hours aren't long and it's shift work with no home cal duties or clinic

But many residencies are shifting to 4 years instead of 3 and while the hours aren't bad you'll work a lot of nights and weekends especially as the younger person in the group. High burnout in the field

 

[utvol23]

I'm taking the MCAT in october, I'm nervous but getting better with practice. I was planning on going into EM, as I hear the residency isn't as long, and the lifestyle isn't bad as work hours are flexible...and pay is good as well. Can you tell me a little more about your daily week, and if it's as tiring or forgiving as people may think? thanks

Obviously Three00ZX can tell you more but im have a pretty good grasp since im married to an ED physician. There is the upside to a more flexible schedule but how flexible it is depends on the group structure some places work 8 hour days others ten and some 12 hour shifts. Working 12 hour shifts you can have a quite a few days off a month but those are grueling shifts being in the ED is very stressful. ALso if you work a lot of nights those overnight 12 hours shifts can really kill two days. How many nights you work can also vary drastically between groups. Some groups distribute it evenly, some groups make the new hires work most of the night, other groups have a person who does most of the nights so the other people in the group only have to work a few nights a month.

Pay also varies significantly based on which region you are in. The Southeast is by far the best. The ED docs do pretty well down there.

 

[mivish06]

Great, thanks for your help docs. Picking a speciality that's right for you can be a daunting task indeed. I was also considering cardiology, but I suppose I have time to weigh my options and see whats most comfortable for me.

 

[Bruce Banner]

There are numerous ways to make a difference in the world... dont become a doctor just for this reason. If after you have shadowed/volunteered and really think that medicine is for you, then by all means go for it.

thats def not my main reason but yeah great advice i have a few internship coming up this summer for physical therapy and im trying to see what's up with Pepsi might do the whole marketing / business side .

 

[three00zeex]

I'm taking the MCAT in october, I'm nervous but getting better with practice. I was planning on going into EM, as I hear the residency isn't as long, and the lifestyle isn't bad as work hours are flexible...and pay is good as well. Can you tell me a little more about your daily week, and if it's as tiring or forgiving as people may think? thanks

Just a heads up about EM

Many are drawn to it because the total hours aren't long and it's shift work with no home cal duties or clinic

But many residencies are shifting to 4 years instead of 3 and while the hours aren't bad you'll work a lot of nights and weekends especially as the younger person in the group. High burnout in the field

in my opinion you are getting WAY ahead of yourself by deciding what field you want to go into. dont go into this with tunnel vision. true story, at the beginning of 3rd year of med school a friend asked me what i wanted to go into and i said "not sure yet, but anything except emergency medicine"... so ya...

first go rock your mcat, get into med school, do great on your boards and give yourself the opportunity to go into whatever field you like.
i just think its sucks that, for example, someone who lives and breathes ortho/derm/rads/anesthesia etc but they dont do so hot on theyre boards and theyre pretty much out of luck and end up in another field.

as far as the burn out in EM, i think its taken out of context. a lot of those docs who they did the studies on were not EM trained physicians working in ERs. i mean imagine being a surgeon or a pediatrician working in an ER somewhere... now were all trained for handing the ER and everything that comes along with it.

i cant give you a typical "schedule" because with EM, you can do day, middle, and overnight shifts throughout the month.
personally i work about 14 8 to 12 hours shifts a month. i am off the rest of the days with no pager or being on call.
people think thats a cakewalk but for the most part, i am actually doing work the entire shift, not much downtime unless its a slow night shift.

 

[Bruce Banner]

After witnessing firsthand how tough OB is I wouldn't recommend that path to anyone

The hours, stress and malpractice is ridiculous

well honestly would you advice someone to take the MD route at all , like you said you wish you chose a different career path ?

 

[youngdoc]

After witnessing firsthand how tough OB is I wouldn't recommend that path to anyone


The hours, stress and malpractice is ridiculous

well honestly would you advice someone to take the MD route at all , like you said you wish you chose a different career path ?

Only if you absolutely don't want to do anything else and understand the commitment

 

[ill steelo]

When I was picking a major, I wanted to get involved strictly for the money, but I knew there was a catch.

A 100k-200k salary after 10+ years of schooling & racking up a 6 figure debt wasn't worth it to me. plus malpractice insurance and other ****

Again I was doing it strictly for the money, so a degree like accounting made much more sense for my wants. After 10-12 years you can easily be making $150k+ with ZERO debt. And then I'm in Atlanta, so I'll be extremely comfortable on that.

I just didn't love medicine enough to pursue it

 

[girlslovewaffles]

Lots of good knowledge being dropped in here. Glad this thread was created given my current timeline.

That being said, any of you residents/attendings have med friends who went the "business of medicine" route? Been reading about it a lot lately, and after reading OPs article, read about it even more.