I never Knew so many people were against Affirmative Action...

[kix4kix]

Originally Posted by Frank 7he T4nk

Does AA work in the favor of Asian americans as well?

Nope
Jews didn't want it, Italians either.

 

[frank 7he t4nk]

Italians are/were underrepresented in college?
Name: Intelligence defeats Negligence

 

[joseph camel jr]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

First. AA benefits Women more than anyone.
Second.

at people bringing up the constitution in regards to being against AA
Third. AA was "given" to blacks in order to pacify "radical' blacks of the 60's and early 70's. It worked.
Fourth. Do you honestly believe that AA is unfair?...

you guys had 400 years to get your wealth. We have 30 and ya'll have had enough

I love white people

I agree with the idea of Affirmative Action, don't get me wrong, but you are making some foolish assumptions. 400 years to amass wealth? Most whiteAmericans are the children and grandchildren of recent immigrants, many of whom came here with nothing. It would be correct to say that many of them enjoyedthe advantages their white skin afforded them over their counterparts of other races, but not to say they have thrived under 400 years of racism.

On another note- women will not be the biggest recipients of the AA, if they even are now (that's not a challenge, it's not that I don't believethey are, but it would be nice to see some evidence supporting it.) if the way things are now continue in the future. Women are achieving at higher levels thanmen in almost every academic field. Entry into most elite colleges is slightly easier for men than women because of the higher numbers of highly-qualifiedfemale applicants.

 

[kix4kix]

Every Recent "immigrant" was offered AA, not my problem they didn't want it. Jews actually protested against it. I would provide proof, but mysources are NOT via internet.

Women have always performed better than men academically. Look at Women vs. Men in college after AA. All the proof you need.

 

[produccionfrescos]

Originally Posted by Joseph Camel Jr

Originally Posted by kix4kix

First. AA benefits Women more than anyone.
Second.

at people bringing up the constitution in regards to being against AA
Third. AA was "given" to blacks in order to pacify "radical' blacks of the 60's and early 70's. It worked.
Fourth. Do you honestly believe that AA is unfair?...

you guys had 400 years to get your wealth. We have 30 and ya'll have had enough

I love white people

I agree with the idea of Affirmative Action, don't get me wrong, but you are making some foolish assumptions. 400 years to amass wealth? Most white Americans are the children and grandchildren of recent immigrants, many of whom came here with nothing. It would be correct to say that many of them enjoyed the advantages their white skin afforded them over their counterparts of other races, but not to say they have thrived under 400 years of racism.

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]Agreed[/color]

 

[joseph camel jr]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Every Recent "immigrant" was offered AA, not my problem they didn't want it. Jews actually protested against it. I would provide proof, but my sources are NOT via internet.

Women have always performed better than men academically. Look at Women vs. Men in college after AA. All the proof you need.

Huh?

Are you serious? Women do not make up the majority of college students due to affirmative action. Like I said, many of the best schools have morehighly-qualified female applicants than similar male applicants. Their admissions processes tend to work against them, not for them. It's insulting toinsinuate anything different.

 

[fmr12b]

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

So if you are against AA you are a "racist"?


Affirmative Action basically says "You cant do it alone." and all it is quotas. There was a higher proportion of Blacks rising out of poverty between 1940-1960 (with no major federal civil rights legislation) than in the 1970's, when the first decade of AA came into play.

Thomas Sowell once said. (Who is a Black man)

Affirmative action is great for black millionaires but it has done little or nothing for most people in the ghetto.

I'm glad to see another NT'er who follows Sowell. Welfare has not helped minorites it has helped enslave them to entitlements.

 

[ballinamillion1]

Originally Posted by lemurkicks23

Originally Posted by ballinamillion1

My math teacher back in high school was a racist, I was talking to this girl about her boyfriend and I said that he looked like the guy that was the shooter of the virginia tech massacre. We had the discussion a few weeks after the shooting and the guy looked just like him and my teacher busts out and call me a racist in front of the class, the girl i was talking to was like he really does look just like him. I apologized and w.e and the girl was like for what you didnt need to apologize the teacher called you out for no reason.

Fast forward to yesterday I went to visit my old high school with one of my boys and we talked to this teacher and she was like I'm happy you guys are having fun at the university of michigan. Then she hit us with the u know I applied there i was already like

. She then proceeded to talk about how she got a 32 on the act and a grade point similar to mine and she was waitlisted. I was like wow that sucked

again lol.

Then she said yea U know its different for me OBVIOUSLY because I was a white female trying to get in, and you guys can imagine how difficult It would be for a WHITE MALE to get in. At that point I was like trying not to say anything and just said I will talk to u later. I was heated man, like I've got white friends at good schools that had crappy act scores especially michigan

its really a shame man the whole incident really left a bad taste in my mouth and I'm prlly never returning to my old high school. btw im black lol

I remember that story!!!

how u been

 

[kix4kix]

Originally Posted by Joseph Camel Jr

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Every Recent "immigrant" was offered AA, not my problem they didn't want it. Jews actually protested against it. I would provide proof, but my sources are NOT via internet.

Women have always performed better than men academically. Look at Women vs. Men in college after AA. All the proof you need.

Huh?

Are you serious? Women do not make up the majority of college students due to affirmative action. Like I said, many of the best schools have more highly-qualified female applicants than similar male applicants. Their admissions processes tend to work against them, not for them. It's insulting to insinuate anything different.

If I am so craazy what about the rates of black women?

Do you not get what I am saying?...I am stating that they have ALWAYS been better academically. Compare College rates in the 50's even the 60's to now.

 

[joseph camel jr]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Originally Posted by Joseph Camel Jr

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Every Recent "immigrant" was offered AA, not my problem they didn't want it. Jews actually protested against it. I would provide proof, but my sources are NOT via internet.

Women have always performed better than men academically. Look at Women vs. Men in college after AA. All the proof you need.

Huh?

Are you serious? Women do not make up the majority of college students due to affirmative action. Like I said, many of the best schools have more highly-qualified female applicants than similar male applicants. Their admissions processes tend to work against them, not for them. It's insulting to insinuate anything different.

If I am so craazy what about the rates of black women?

Do you not get what I am saying?...I am stating that they have ALWAYS been better academically. Compare College rates in the 50's even the 60's to now.

1. It has not always been like that. In fact, more men than women enrolled in college until the late 1980s. In the 1950s and 60s far more men than womenattended college. You want me to compare them? OK, here you go:

2. You said the rate of women enrolling in college equalling that of men was a result of AA. That's insulting and simply not true.

 

[kix4kix]

Camel...Read my posts we are stating the EXACT same thing. you are making my point for me. Men used to dominate the collegiate sphere.

2. How is it insulting?...That institutions only started accepting off of merit after AA, NOW THAT is insulting

 

[gello 201]

As far as unequal employment for jobs...why ask for a race on an application? Really, what does it matter? Doesn't matter which side of the argumentyou're on. If I'm boss of a company, I want profit and efficiency. Race doesn't effect this, individual ability does.

 

[joseph camel jr]

No, a few posts back you clearly said that "women have always performed better than men academically" and to look at "women vs men in collegeafter AA."

The first comment directly disagrees with what I've been saying and, as I demonstrated in the graph, is completely untrue. The second implies that womenequalled and surpassed men in terms of college enrollment as a result of AA. Like I said, that's insulting and incorrect. The fact that there are morequalified female applicants means AA has nothing to do with it, they earned it themselves. The fact that many colleges give the edge to male applicants to evenout their numbers further emphasizes my point.

 

[ramzs8906]

Originally Posted by HarlemKickDiva

Originally Posted by Essential1

I got into a discussion about this in American Politics we broke up into 5 groups of 6-10 kids, My discussion with another kid stopped the whole class and it became a 1 on 1 debate. Me being on the pro Affirmative Action side.

I really don't think some white people understand how easy they have it compared to some minorities (I am white).... Not to say white people don't struggle but certain things they don't have to deal with that other groups do. Things that effect everyday life.

People also don't realize for every unqualified Affirmative Action reception there is a white guy who doesn't deserve the job (so what is the explanation of that).

Many times blacks, Hispanics, Asians, woman etc. are still looked over for jobs with affirmative action and they are more qualified.

And then if you are a minority and you earned your spot you are an automatic affirmative action hire. (Obama, Sotomayor, the list goes on)

The racism and bigotry in this country is not dead at all.

While I do believe an economic status Affirmative Action is better and will cover more people, we cannot just abolish Affirmative Action completely.

And to sum it up as a White Male I have never felt hindered, cheated whatever by Affirmative Action. My resume speaks for itself. I don't get a job I don't get a job. I don't blame anyone else for it.

I wonder whose PB this came from

 

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by DublBagn

Originally Posted by Master Zik

First those people are ignorant. A.A. just gives them another topic to spew their racist opinions.

I should note that there are black ppl against A.A. as well for different reasons.

The lazy black side of me loves it but after that passes it's like I'm not getting this opportunity for my merits but the color of skin. The foundation of A.A. has suddle and subtle deep rooted reverse racism in it even if the framers weren't fully aware of it. It's like first it was lets not treat blacks like humans, now instead of equal lets treat them special especially when it comes to getting certain advantages. I understand for about a century young white men innately had advantages and opportunities over just about every other race and blacks were basically the opposite but I don't think playing catch up is the way to even the playing field. I don't have an answer for how to put blacks or any other race or nationality on equal footing with white ppl but as we as a society progress I can understand some genuinely disadvantaged white ppl who aren't racist feeling it isn't fair. Now yes, slavery was obviously not fair but I know one way to look at this "solution" is not every black person is subjected to the hatred and racism blacks faced 50 years ago. Racism has basically become universal and most of us have realized certain groups of ppl just don't like others and in general everyone isn't going to like each other.

I can see the argument on both sides, just wish there was a better way to skip this drawn out process but we can't control how ppl think when it comes to why a person is hired for a job or given a certain opportunity..... yet. In many ways it'd be better if ppl were literally without hate but

that aint happening.

Saw a movie recently with this being one of the topics with Sarah Jessica Parker. I know at least one other person saw it. It was pretty good, caught me off guard when it was the black kid doing it

although it was typical given the limited options.

you are no longer allowed to comment on this topic.....

edit: so who is getting the short short short end of the stick here.....super lower class minorities or super lower class whites???? Success is basically gauged on drive and access, so would the class of people with no access and with AA going against them have it the worst???? just a question....

Wait I'm lost you mad cuz of me having a lazy blackside? A @*+!# cant be lazy? You never been lazy? Meh.

 

[kix4kix]

ok buddy. What you fail to acknowledge is the lack of woman whom desired to go to college prior to the women's movement in the 60's 70's andinto the 80's. Back then WOMEN scored better in school than men, just simply did not aspire to go to college. The subculture completely changed as your"graph" shows in the mid 80's.

You can argue till the cows come home but I know what I am talking about. Women WERE only given these spots due to affirmative action. I am not discountingtheir deserving of the spot. I am clearly stating the EXACT opposite. I am stating that if it were not for AA, institutions would not have to admit any what soever.......your "graph" is not going to discount the numerous books I have read on the subject. Sorry

 

[id walk a mile for a camel]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

ok buddy. What you fail to acknowledge is the lack of woman whom desired to go to college prior to the women's movement in the 60's 70's and into the 80's. Back then WOMEN scored better in school than men, just simply did not aspire to go to college. The subculture completely changed as your "graph" shows in the mid 80's.

You can argue till the cows come home but I know what I am talking about. Women WERE only given these spots due to affirmative action. I am not discounting their deserving of the spot. I am clearly stating the EXACT opposite. I am stating that if it were not for AA, institutions would not have to admit any what so ever.......your "graph" is not going to discount the numerous books I have read on the subject. Sorry

I didn't argue that point, in fact that's what I'm saying. They have achieved higher than their male peers for years.

But you're saying that, despite women "scoring better in school than men," when they all started wanting to go to school they were only givenspots due to AA? Really dude? It wasn't their higher standardized test scores, better grades, etc. etc.? Come one now.

 

[kix4kix]

How do you think they kept blacks out? Despite Higher scores?....Same thing.

 

[kix4kix]

about 17 times you stated what I said was offensive how so?

 

[id walk a mile for a camel]

We're not talking about women being kept out of school, we're talking about women being accepted over males. Like you said earlier, women didnot enroll in college at the rate of their male peers largely because that was not what women did at the time, not because of discrimination withinadmissions departments. When they began to apply in greater numbers, the % of women enrolled in college likewise increased dramatically.


Like I said a million times already, female applicants are at a disadvantage at most good colleges when it comes to admissions.

And comparing them with blacks is a poor analogy. Blacks, on average, score lower on standardized test scores, have lower GPAs, etc. etc. than their peers. Ofcourse, a number of reasons beyond their control are behind this, hence the creation of AA.


Edit: What you said was offensive (not a big deal, I'm not personally offended, just saying) because you are attributing women's increased enrollmentin college to affirmative action, not to their achievements in the classroom.

 

[kix4kix]

There were blacks with HIGHER test scores being kept out of schools. TRUTH

You can claim otherwise, but there are several institutions that kept a 70 40 ratio in favor of males despite scores reflecting the exact opposite. TRUTH
If we cannot agree on that then

Don't know what to tell ya.

 

[id walk a mile for a camel]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

There were blacks with HIGHER test scores being kept out of schools. TRUTH

You can claim otherwise, but there are several institutions that kept a 70 40 ratio in favor of males despite scores reflecting the exact opposite. TRUTH
If we cannot agree on that then

Don't know what to tell ya.

I KNOW THAT. AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ≠ UNBIASED ADMISSIONS.

Jesus

. These admissions offices who kept ratios allowed the ratios to even out once they stopped discriminating against female applicants. Thus, they gotin on their own accord, NOT because of affirmative action. That is very different than what affirmative action accomplishes- it allows for applicants who areWEAKER on paper to be admitted over similar or even superior candidates because they are of a certain group that has experienced a history of discrimination inthis country. Female applicants were not weaker, they did not need a boost in the admissions process to get in.

 

[chi ill]

Non-minorities will NEVER understand how its like to be an minority . Period .

 

[antc]

Originally Posted by 360wavesandxbox

So today in my class the topic of Affirmative action came up, and the majority of the people in my class(looking back im not surprised) are against the idea of affirmative action.
One guy, who happens to be a Sargeant of a nearby city Police Department even went on to say he doesn't see why companies "lower their standards" to just to hire "blacks and hispanics and women". Then he was joined in agreement by others in the class...
He went on about how its not fair to be looked over by lazier less deserving people just because of them being another race or gender. The whole time im sittin there giving him the

.

Is this really how most people think of us? As lazy and less deserving of a job?

I remember a Fire Chief said something similar on a class trip, and was challenged to a fight by the members of my High School football team. Tense episode.Anyway, there are generations of people that got jobs through straight nepotism, which has lowered the standards of many organizations quite significantly.

 

[kix4kix]

i now see your point. I hope you admit to yourself that you now see mine. I told you 3 posts ago we were stating the same thing

.

Despite what you believe stopping the bias DID help women. Which is what you have been arguing for the past 30 min.