**LA LAKERS THREAD** Sitting on 17! 2023-2024 offseason begins

[lovehateself]

Ingram scoreless back to back games, 2 for his last 23 shooting.

If that was someone else.......

No heart
No aggression
He's no leader
He's on the clock

 

[P C H]

Ingram scoreless back to back games, 2 for his last 23 shooting.

If that was someone else.......

Funny, I was just about ask whiplash something about Ingram.

Like, D'lo has just been soooo bad to some this year for the Lakers, and Zubac is a steal and a prize, but Ingram has literally been in some aspects, one of the worst players in all of basketball this season and he never mentions it

 

[wavycrocket]

View media item 2313374View media item 2313375

 

[P C H]

It's funny how people wanna **** on D'Lo, and crown Ingram the future and the star and all that, when we've almost never seen a rookie be this bad and end up a star. (I could be wrong, just going off my own memory)

 

[essential1]

Said this last night on Twitter, like it even more the more I see of Zu.

DLo
Clarkson
Ingram
Randle/Nance
Zubac

Potential top 3 pick. All 7 25 and under.

And still enough cap space to add a piece in 2017 or 18.

And if Mitch could sell Lou or Nick for another pick and/or young piece, all the better to have another asset in the mix.

As that group reaches ages 26-25-24-23 etc, (Clarkson bein the oldest one) we'll start seein results.

Deng-Moz assuming the vet leadership roles/depth, etc.

Add to that, the core growing year after year WITH Luke, year 2-3 the results will come.

Pick whoever as a max target, PG, Russ, Noel, Hayward, etc. Landing one of them, at some point, of course accelerates the timetable.

By the time that core is built up and running, GSW should start winding down, Bron will be done, Wade, Melo, CP3 etc.

Patience will be required for the long game. No need to rush splash trades. But certainly room to buy up value deals, like Ariza, or Shannon Brown cheap depth types.

Zubac can actually be good... I'd still look for someone to slid in front of him... But the FA market next 2 years is pretty dry on Centers... 2017 is Noel & 2018 is Cousins... He'll at least have a chance to try to develop. Either way, he'll get time to play, and it's nice to have that option for a backup.

Still gotta get rid of one of Deng / Mozgov..... The flexibility is more important than the veteran leadership.

Found 2 interesting spots for Moz, Magic if they ever get that Dragic for Vucevic swap (we'd be trading for nothing basically) and the Wizards.... Both scenarios you tie Lou Will & multiple 2nd round picks with Moz.


Also I'd throw Black out there as well.. As much as I do like him as a backup... With Zubac needing minutes, he gets squeezed out like Thomas Robinson does.. Also after the end of this season, may have to let him go for free anyway to open up money. Only way you keep Black is if you get rid of Mozgov.



Russell / ??? / Ingram / Randle / ???
??? / Clarkson / Deng / Nance Jr. / Zubac

That basically is where we should be looking.. If Zubac is better than a backup Center great. If he's a backup Center, still good.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Said this last night on Twitter, like it even more the more I see of Zu.

DLo
Clarkson
Ingram
Randle/Nance
Zubac

Potential top 3 pick. All 7 25 and under.

And still enough cap space to add a piece in 2017 or 18.

And if Mitch could sell Lou or Nick for another pick and/or young piece, all the better to have another asset in the mix.

As that group reaches ages 26-25-24-23 etc, (Clarkson bein the oldest one) we'll start seein results.

Deng-Moz assuming the vet leadership roles/depth, etc.

Add to that, the core growing year after year WITH Luke, year 2-3 the results will come.

Pick whoever as a max target, PG, Russ, Noel, Hayward, etc. Landing one of them, at some point, of course accelerates the timetable.

By the time that core is built up and running, GSW should start winding down, Bron will be done, Wade, Melo, CP3 etc.

Patience will be required for the long game. No need to rush splash trades. But certainly room to buy up value deals, like Ariza, or Shannon Brown cheap depth types.

Zubac can actually be good... I'd still look for someone to slid in front of him... But the FA market next 2 years is pretty dry on Centers... 2017 is Noel & 2018 is Cousins... He'll at least have a chance to try to develop. Either way, he'll get time to play, and it's nice to have that option for a backup.

Still gotta get rid of one of Deng / Mozgov..... The flexibility is more important than the veteran leadership.

Found 2 interesting spots for Moz, Magic if they ever get that Dragic for Vucevic swap (we'd be trading for nothing basically) and the Wizards.... Both scenarios you tie Lou Will & multiple 2nd round picks with Moz.


Also I'd throw Black out there as well.. As much as I do like him as a backup... With Zubac needing minutes, he gets squeezed out like Thomas Robinson does.. Also after the end of this season, may have to let him go for free anyway to open up money. Only way you keep Black is if you get rid of Mozgov.



Russell / ??? / Ingram / Randle / ???
??? / Clarkson / Deng / Nance Jr. / Zubac

That basically is where we should be looking.. If Zubac is better than a backup Center great. If he's a backup Center, still good.

2 post that make sense.

 

[Lizakers]

BI has all the tools
He gets bumped and knocked off balance almost every possession on cuts, drives, post ups
Needs to put on weight

Defense . Check
Range. Check
Post up moves. Check
Footwork. Check
Quickness and athleticism attacking rim. Check
Crossover 30 ft away then driving and posterizing someone. Check
Weakside blocks. Check
Steals then go Coast 2 Coast. Check
Good handle for his size. Check

He's shown everything

DLO to me lacks what PGs need in today's game - quickness, athleticism, ability to drive and attack, create your own shot off the dribble on a iso

 

[essential1]

Saying Nance Jr. & Zubac are not part of the core, doesn't mean they can't be contributors.. It's saying that as of now they are better suited to come off the bench..

Zu has a much more likely chance at getting to the starting lineup than Nance does.


Also the reason you don't trade Russell & Randle is that

Russell / ??? / Ingram / Randle / ???
??? / Clarkson / Deng / Nance Jr. / Zu


becomes

Whatever we got for Russell & Randle / ???? / Ingram / Nance Jr. / Zu
??? / Clarkson / Deng / ??? / ???


See how trying to build that is much more difficult...


I'll take 8 guys in the rotation and building around that, over 6, and having less money than you would have with the 8 guys

 

[P C H]

BI has all the tools
He gets bumped and knocked off balance almost every possession on cuts, drives, post ups
Needs to put on weight

Defense . Check
Range. Check
Post up moves. Check
Footwork. Check
Quickness and athleticism attacking rim. Check
Weakside blocks. Check
Steals then go Coast 2 Coast. Check
Good handle for his size. Check

He's shown everything

DLO to me lacks what PGs need in today's game - quickness, athleticism, ability to drive and attack, create your own shot off the dribble

Yeah but D'lo has shown at the very least early on that he can be an above average PG.

Ingram, for all that you mentioned, has not been anywhere close to an average NBA player in his rookie season and no one mentions it but everyone wants to kill D'Lo and not him.

 

[whiplashtw03]

 

Ingram scoreless back to back games, 2 for his last 23 shooting.

If that was someone else.......

Funny, I was just about ask whiplash something about Ingram.

Like, D'lo has just been soooo bad to some this year for the Lakers, and Zubac is a steal and a prize, but Ingram has literally been in some aspects, one of the worst players in all of basketball this season and he never mentions it

If you guys have been paying attention, I said weeks ago that full-on criticism for Ingram won't happen until Year 2.

Dude is a rookie. He gets a pass while he learns the ropes this year just like I gave DLo a pass last year when I rarely criticized him as a rookie.

 

[lovehateself]

BI is still just 19 though
Patience is key

But according to some, dudes gotta come out and dominate the league, especially being a #2 pick

BI will be fine and so will the core of the team
Each player has shown flashes in their own ways
D'lo, Randle, Jc, nance and now Zu
Things are looking bright

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Ingram hasn't done any of those things good this year. Like I said I hope all these dudes max out but the way y'all pick and choose who to make excuses for makes no sense.

 

[MVP]

How do we know when you weren't even in here last year?

And scenarios with Deng and Mosgov not including a young guy are frivolous.

 

[Lizakers]

Dlo talked A LOT in the offseason about his improvement and him taking the reins and being the leader
So I expected a lot more this year, he's been very passive and doesn't push the ball

 

[whiplashtw03]

How do we know when you weren't even in here last year?

And scenarios with Deng and Mosgov not including a young guy are frivolous.

Doesn't matter if I was here last year or not. I'm telling you that last year we had very little to measure DLo by because he was a rookie. There wasn't enough of a body of work to assess his impact. 

Next year, we will be able to compare Ingram's development from year 1 to year 2 and be able to evaluate how much he has improved, if at all.

 

[MVP]

Dlo talked A LOT in the offseason about his improvement and him taking the reins and being the leader
So I expected a lot more this year, he's been very passive and doesn't push the ball

This is also a part of it. D'Lo has done a lot of yapping but has improved marginally and regressed in certain areas as well. At the very least early on BI has been giving effort out there consistently.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

 

Ingram scoreless back to back games, 2 for his last 23 shooting.


If that was someone else.......

Funny, I was just about ask whiplash something about Ingram.

Like, D'lo has just been soooo bad to some this year for the Lakers, and Zubac is a steal and a prize, but Ingram has literally been in some aspects, one of the worst players in all of basketball this season and he never mentions it

If you guys have been paying attention, I said weeks ago that full-on criticism for Ingram won't happen until Year 2.

Dude is a rookie. He gets a pass while he learns the ropes this year just like I gave DLo a pass last year when I rarely criticized him as a rookie.

Like theres a big difference between 1st and 2nd years.

 

[whiplashtw03]

 
Like theres a big difference between 1st and 2nd years.

HUGE difference. 

I recommend you go out, meet, and speak with a few NBA players or a former coach who has played in the league and see what they tell you.

 

[P C H]

BI is still just 19 though
Patience is key

But according to some, dudes gotta come out and dominate the league, especially being a #2 pick

I hear you, and I'm not saying he should dominate but there's literally never been a star player be this bad. And I alluded to it in the other thread, no future stars have been this bad. Just think that if people are going to put a magnifying glass on D'lo then maybe we should take a look at Ingram too.

Lord knows if D'Lo was putting up 2-23 weeks and being one of the worst players in the league getting consistent minutes people would have the pitchforks out for him.

 

[MVP]

Like theres a big difference between 1st and 2nd years.

They're usually is a tangible jump that can be seen. Most rookies sans KD and Bron have an adjustment period. BI was really horrible to start, was playing pretty good to start this month but like all season he's been struggling with his outside shooting.

 

[lovehateself]

BI is still just 19 though

Patience is key


But according to some, dudes gotta come out and dominate the league, especially being a #2 pick

I hear you, and I'm not saying he should dominate but there's literally never been a star player be this bad. And I alluded to it in the other thread, no future stars have been this bad. Just think that if people are going to put a magnifying glass on D'lo then maybe we should take a look at Ingram too.

Lord knows if D'Lo was putting up 2-23 weeks and being one of the worst players in the league getting consistent minutes people would have the pitchforks out for him.

No pitchforks
Just whips

 

[CP1708]

I won't even attempt to trade Deng or Moz. They're here. 2-3 years at least.

Like E said, something like

DLo/Hayward/Ingram/Randle/Moz
Top 3 pick/Clarkson/Deng/Nance/Zubac

That's, plausible. Not impossible. (Tho I don't expect Hayward to come to us myself, but he should be a target at least)

If we whiff on Hayward, could slide Top 3 to SG, Lou stays as backup PG???

Feasible scenarios.

Still hope to flip Lou tho. Get a top ~20ish pick, knowin Mitch could pull someone useful outta that. Fingers crossed.

 

[purpnyellow]

Yeah but we all knew ingrams weight was going to be a problem I'll wait till next year to criticize him

 

[kvsm23vs24]

Can't lie a little disappointed on how our top picks from the last few years are doing, but they still young as hell.

 

[whiplashtw03]

I hear you, and I'm not saying he should dominate but there's literally never been a star player be this bad. And I alluded to it in the other thread, no future stars have been this bad. Just think that if people are going to put a magnifying glass on D'lo then maybe we should take a look at Ingram too.

Lord knows if D'Lo was putting up 2-23 weeks and being one of the worst players in the league getting consistent minutes people would have the pitchforks out for him.

Here's some for you. 

Gary Payton, one of the league's all time greats at the guard position, check out his rookie year stats:  27 min per game, 7.2 ppg, 

John Stockton, another all time great - 5.6 ppg in 18 mpg rookie year, 7.7 ppg in 24 mpg his second year

Scottie Pippen, all time great - 7.9 ppg in 21 mpg rookie year

Paul George, All-Star - 7.8 ppg in 21 mpg rookie year.

And there are a lot more where this came from....

Brandon Ingram is at 8.1 ppg playing 28 minutes. Not saying he will be an all-time great but there's definitely been a star player in the past that's been this bad their rookie year. Lots of them throughout the history of the league.