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**LA LAKERS THREAD** Sitting on 17! 2023-2024 offseason begins
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by licensed to ball,
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Good thing about that last series is that they forced Kerr to make a lot of adjustments. So they should be prepared for anything Malone tries to throw at them as far as matchups go at least. I think it would be best to find some time for AD while Jokic sits. Jokic is probably going to pull him from the rim. They're terrible when Jokic sits and can press the advantage in those minutes
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Also the last time similar iteration of this team played They still had Jokic/Murray/MPJ
They've swapped out Gordon & Jerami Grant
Now have Brown/KCP/Green.... in exchange for Gary Harris/Monte Morris/Plumlee/Torrey Craig
Jokic is better, MPJ is better.... they added more shooting, while losing more perimeter defense & interior defense. We won that series in 5. it's also not a coincidence that Jokic had his worst playoff series, against AD that year .
They've swapped out Gordon & Jerami Grant
Now have Brown/KCP/Green.... in exchange for Gary Harris/Monte Morris/Plumlee/Torrey Craig
Jokic is better, MPJ is better.... they added more shooting, while losing more perimeter defense & interior defense. We won that series in 5. it's also not a coincidence that Jokic had his worst playoff series, against AD that year .
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I’m grasping at straws cause I don’t see anyone else on the roster who can hang with Jokic. Might need to be just AD full time on him
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My worry with AD guarding Jokic for 40 minutes is AD loses his legs as the game and series wears on.
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save us wenyen
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Worth a look to see if he can hold up, but wouldn’t count on it. Can go at Joker with AD offensively too.
Lakers bench > Nuggets bench
Vando should be able to put the clamps on Murray if needed.
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Yup we gotta go 'big'
DLo on KCP
Reaves on Murray
Bron on MPJ
Rui on Gordon
AD on Joker
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Honestly, more media members are picking us to be Denver than pick us to beat the Warriors
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Since we no longer have a bruising physical center like Dwight, I fully expect to see some of this during the series, guaranteed...
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Boston looking real hungry after losing last year in the finals
These gonna be some stressful 4-5 weeks playing Denver and potentially Boston
These gonna be some stressful 4-5 weeks playing Denver and potentially Boston
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jokic brothers gonna show up to his hotel room
darvin gonna end up in a conex box in long beach
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How Lakers’ LeBron James, Anthony Davis revamped their games to lead a title contender
Anthony Davis leaned back and scrunched his face when asked what he remembers about the Denver Nuggets after facing them in the 2020 Western Conference finals in the NBA bubble.
“It’s hard to say just because they’re a different team,” Davis said after the Los Angeles Lakers’ series-clinching Game 6 victory over the Golden State Warriors in the Western Conference semifinals.
He paused and then raised his hand, emphasizing his statement: “We’re a different team.”
Every team is different, to some extent, from season to season, of course. Nonetheless, the Lakers’ continuity pales in comparison to the other members of the NBA bubble 2.0 Final Four of Denver, Boston and Miami.
The Nuggets are returning Nikola Jokić, Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr. and head coach Michael Malone. The Celtics still have Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, Grant Williams and Robert Williams III, with then-coach Brad Stevens still around as general manager. The Heat are bringing back Jimmy Butler, Bam Adebayo, Tyler Herro (injured), Duncan Robinson, Udonis Haslem (barely plays) and head coach Erik Spoelstra.
Going back to last year’s conference finals, the Celtics are returning seven of their top eight players, and the Heat are returning seven of their top 10 (though two of those players, Herro and Victor Oladipo, are injured).
The Lakers’ holdovers? There’s James. There’s Davis. And … that’s it, outside of a couple of assistant coaches and performance staffers.
So while the other three Florida bubble return finalists return with at least a baseline level of familiarity, the team that won the title that season returned to prominence by unmaking and then remaking themselves.
For the most part, the Lakers have a brand-new group. Los Angeles’ remarkable in-season turnaround, from a 2-10 start and being the No. 13-seeded team as late as Feb. 25, is the headline-grabber of this run, and rightfully so. But the Lakers’ surge also is a testament to the dominance, and more importantly, the malleability of their superstar duo.
The one constant throughout this four-year run: the Lakers win when James and Davis are both healthy. They are 26-10 in the playoffs when both players are available for a full game. Nevertheless, the Lakers’ front office has remade the roster multiple times since the championship season with each iteration having a slightly different identity. The smash-mouth 2020 bubble team has given way to a 2023 roster with a new head coach, multiple ballhandlers and a more egalitarian offensive approach that lends itself to random contributions nightly.
It’s rare for a team of this caliber to reconstruct itself, not only in terms of personnel but also with their head coach and playing style while achieving similar success. That’s especially remarkable considering James and Davis are both older, more banged up and somewhat diminished versions of their previous selves. But it’s precisely the stars’ ability to alter their games and adapt to what their team needs that has allowed the Lakers to contend with two vastly different rosters and team identities.
The transformations of James and Davis have been remarkable. In the 2019-20 season, James played almost exclusively the point-guard position — even if he was matching up with wings and bigs defensively — and led the league in assists with a career-best 10.2 per game. On the title team, James played 79 percent of his minutes at guard and 21 percent of his minutes at small forward. He was the team’s primary ballhandler and point guard.
This season, James has played at power forward (79 percent) and center (21 percent), shifting roles and playing off the ball more. James‘ usage and assist numbers have declined, as the ball has been spread out to the likes of D’Angelo Russell, Austin Reaves and Dennis Schröder. He’s also struggled from beyond the arc, which has affected his overall efficiency numbers. Considering he’s 38, in his 20th season and coming off a major foot injury, it’s understandable that there would be a drop-off. Here is how James compares to his 2020 self through two rounds.
LeBron James in 2020 vs. 2023
But James has managed to be effective in his new role while picking his spots to dominate. He no longer has to carry the offensive load that he once did — at least not until he has to, like in Game 6 versus the Warriors. James has played off the ball more — as opponents have noted throughout the playoffs — with Los Angeles leveraging his cutting and presence to manufacture spacing.
Meanwhile, Davis has fully embraced the center and defensive anchor role he previously refrained from due to its physically taxing nature. In 2019-20, Davis played 60 percent of his minutes at power forward in the regular season and 40 percent of his minutes there in the playoffs. Frank Vogel, the Lakers coach then, used him as a power forward for the early stretches of games alongside other centers like JaVale McGee and Dwight Howard, only unleashing him as the lone big to finish games off against smaller lineups (and during the NBA Finals).
This season, he’s been exclusively a center, finally embracing the change that his various coaching staffs have wanted for years given how dynamic he is with improved floor spacing. Ham and his coaching staff have used Davis as the team’s anchor, funneling opponents to him, where they trust he’ll either make the right defensive play or force teams to kick out for lower-percentage shots once Davis blocks and alters a few.
Here is how Davis is faring against his 2020 version.
Anthony Davis in 2020 vs. 2023
He’s not scoring as much, has had the ball less and is not scoring as efficiently. But he’s been far more effective defensively by blocking more shots and deterring countless others. The Lakers have defended better with Davis on the floor in the 2023 playoffs than they did in 2020, a remarkable feat considering Davis’ mastery in the NBA bubble and that he was often flanked by another elite rim protector.
His defensive versatility against the Grizzlies and Warriors was incredible, as he successfully corralled pick-and-rolls in the Lakers’ drop coverage, protected the rim and switched onto perimeter players. He had perhaps the best defensive series any frontcourt player has ever had against the Warriors in their decade-long run with Curry.
Both superstars have sacrificed their scoring to aid the more offensive nature of the 2023 team’s supporting cast. Three years ago, the biggest concern with the Lakers entering the postseason was the lack of a reliable third scorer. The two other contenders at the time — the Milwaukee Bucks and LA Clippers — had multiple scoring threats that could pop off for 15 to 20 points a night.
James and Davis made that a meaningless concern by being even more brilliant themselves to pick up the slack for any inconsistency from the rest of the team. The Lakers’ role players made enough shots — four players shot at least percent or better on 3s through the first two rounds. But only one player other than James and Davis scored 20 or more points during the Lakers’ 21-game march to the 2020 title: Rajon Rondo in Game 3 of the Western Conference semifinals against Houston.
By contrast, in this postseason’s 13-game stretch (counting the Play-In Tournament), the Lakers already have had 10 such 20-point performances from players not named James or Davis. Reaves has eclipsed that mark four times, Rui Hachimura three times, Russell twice and Schröder once. This is a far more offensive-minded group, one that does not require or even benefit from James and Davis doing as much heavy lifting. Yet they’ve been able to make the stylistic transformation work and maintain an elite defense due to Davis (sliding up to center) and James (ceding control of the offense) accepting that they had to adjust.
Superficially, there are similarities between the NBA bubble Lakers and this season’s rendition. Both teams were built around James and Davis, even if slightly different versions. Both teams were elite defensively. Both teams have had good enough shooting at timely moments, even if it wasn’t always reliable. Both teams had a certain physicality and force that could overwhelm opponents. Schröder and Reaves have similar moxie to players like Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Alex Caruso and Rondo. Hachimura has been that tweener scorer that Kyle Kuzma was, and then at times, a spot-up threat like Markieff Morris.
It also remains to be seen if the 2023 Lakers can finish off their run with the same exclamation mark as the 2020 club. To put things in better perspective, here is how the 2020 Lakers stack up with the 2023 Lakers through the first two rounds of the playoffs.
2020 Lakers vs. 2023 Lakers
The sheer dominance of the 2020 team stands out. Through two rounds, they were better than their 2023 counterparts — offensively, defensively, rebounding and passing. Their primary weakness was turnovers, which is the opposite of the current group.
But the 2020 team was a No. 1 seed, so their path was easier. Portland was worse than either Memphis or Golden State. Houston was probably better than both (at least the hobbled version of Memphis), though it’s debatable. Denver is much better now than they were back then, providing the toughest playoff test of the James-Davis era. And both Boston and Miami look like better versions right now, even if the Heat had a worse regular-season record.
Continuity certainly matters in the NBA. It’s arguably the biggest factor working against the Lakers in their quest to win banner No. 17.
Nonetheless, James and Davis are on pace to go down as one of the elite duos of the millennium. Shaquille O’Neal and Kobe Bryant are the gold standard. Kevin Durant and Steph Curry were unbeatable together. Tim Duncan and Tony Parker (or Manu Ginobili) had unprecedented longevity among post-1980s teams. James and Dwyane Wade led their team to four straight NBA Finals — a feat that can only be matched by the Warriors’ duo of Curry and Draymond Green/Klay Thompson. Bryant and Pau Gasol are probably underrated from a historical context, winning back-to-back championships and making three straight NBA Finals. With a second title, James and Davis can cement their place in that mix — arguably in the No. 3 slot, considering Davis’ run as a top-10 player in both runs.
But none of those tandems have demonstrated the same ability to shapeshift their own on-court identities the way James and Davis have in these two postseason runs. They’ve shown that if they stay healthy and get a solid supporting cast — of any kind, any style — they can, at the bare minimum, contend for a championship.
Anthony Davis leaned back and scrunched his face when asked what he remembers about the Denver Nuggets after facing them in the 2020 Western Conference finals in the NBA bubble.
“It’s hard to say just because they’re a different team,” Davis said after the Los Angeles Lakers’ series-clinching Game 6 victory over the Golden State Warriors in the Western Conference semifinals.
He paused and then raised his hand, emphasizing his statement: “We’re a different team.”
Every team is different, to some extent, from season to season, of course. Nonetheless, the Lakers’ continuity pales in comparison to the other members of the NBA bubble 2.0 Final Four of Denver, Boston and Miami.
The Nuggets are returning Nikola Jokić, Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr. and head coach Michael Malone. The Celtics still have Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, Grant Williams and Robert Williams III, with then-coach Brad Stevens still around as general manager. The Heat are bringing back Jimmy Butler, Bam Adebayo, Tyler Herro (injured), Duncan Robinson, Udonis Haslem (barely plays) and head coach Erik Spoelstra.
Going back to last year’s conference finals, the Celtics are returning seven of their top eight players, and the Heat are returning seven of their top 10 (though two of those players, Herro and Victor Oladipo, are injured).
The Lakers’ holdovers? There’s James. There’s Davis. And … that’s it, outside of a couple of assistant coaches and performance staffers.
So while the other three Florida bubble return finalists return with at least a baseline level of familiarity, the team that won the title that season returned to prominence by unmaking and then remaking themselves.
For the most part, the Lakers have a brand-new group. Los Angeles’ remarkable in-season turnaround, from a 2-10 start and being the No. 13-seeded team as late as Feb. 25, is the headline-grabber of this run, and rightfully so. But the Lakers’ surge also is a testament to the dominance, and more importantly, the malleability of their superstar duo.
The one constant throughout this four-year run: the Lakers win when James and Davis are both healthy. They are 26-10 in the playoffs when both players are available for a full game. Nevertheless, the Lakers’ front office has remade the roster multiple times since the championship season with each iteration having a slightly different identity. The smash-mouth 2020 bubble team has given way to a 2023 roster with a new head coach, multiple ballhandlers and a more egalitarian offensive approach that lends itself to random contributions nightly.
It’s rare for a team of this caliber to reconstruct itself, not only in terms of personnel but also with their head coach and playing style while achieving similar success. That’s especially remarkable considering James and Davis are both older, more banged up and somewhat diminished versions of their previous selves. But it’s precisely the stars’ ability to alter their games and adapt to what their team needs that has allowed the Lakers to contend with two vastly different rosters and team identities.
The transformations of James and Davis have been remarkable. In the 2019-20 season, James played almost exclusively the point-guard position — even if he was matching up with wings and bigs defensively — and led the league in assists with a career-best 10.2 per game. On the title team, James played 79 percent of his minutes at guard and 21 percent of his minutes at small forward. He was the team’s primary ballhandler and point guard.
This season, James has played at power forward (79 percent) and center (21 percent), shifting roles and playing off the ball more. James‘ usage and assist numbers have declined, as the ball has been spread out to the likes of D’Angelo Russell, Austin Reaves and Dennis Schröder. He’s also struggled from beyond the arc, which has affected his overall efficiency numbers. Considering he’s 38, in his 20th season and coming off a major foot injury, it’s understandable that there would be a drop-off. Here is how James compares to his 2020 self through two rounds.
LeBron James in 2020 vs. 2023
But James has managed to be effective in his new role while picking his spots to dominate. He no longer has to carry the offensive load that he once did — at least not until he has to, like in Game 6 versus the Warriors. James has played off the ball more — as opponents have noted throughout the playoffs — with Los Angeles leveraging his cutting and presence to manufacture spacing.
Meanwhile, Davis has fully embraced the center and defensive anchor role he previously refrained from due to its physically taxing nature. In 2019-20, Davis played 60 percent of his minutes at power forward in the regular season and 40 percent of his minutes there in the playoffs. Frank Vogel, the Lakers coach then, used him as a power forward for the early stretches of games alongside other centers like JaVale McGee and Dwight Howard, only unleashing him as the lone big to finish games off against smaller lineups (and during the NBA Finals).
This season, he’s been exclusively a center, finally embracing the change that his various coaching staffs have wanted for years given how dynamic he is with improved floor spacing. Ham and his coaching staff have used Davis as the team’s anchor, funneling opponents to him, where they trust he’ll either make the right defensive play or force teams to kick out for lower-percentage shots once Davis blocks and alters a few.
Here is how Davis is faring against his 2020 version.
Anthony Davis in 2020 vs. 2023
He’s not scoring as much, has had the ball less and is not scoring as efficiently. But he’s been far more effective defensively by blocking more shots and deterring countless others. The Lakers have defended better with Davis on the floor in the 2023 playoffs than they did in 2020, a remarkable feat considering Davis’ mastery in the NBA bubble and that he was often flanked by another elite rim protector.
His defensive versatility against the Grizzlies and Warriors was incredible, as he successfully corralled pick-and-rolls in the Lakers’ drop coverage, protected the rim and switched onto perimeter players. He had perhaps the best defensive series any frontcourt player has ever had against the Warriors in their decade-long run with Curry.
Both superstars have sacrificed their scoring to aid the more offensive nature of the 2023 team’s supporting cast. Three years ago, the biggest concern with the Lakers entering the postseason was the lack of a reliable third scorer. The two other contenders at the time — the Milwaukee Bucks and LA Clippers — had multiple scoring threats that could pop off for 15 to 20 points a night.
James and Davis made that a meaningless concern by being even more brilliant themselves to pick up the slack for any inconsistency from the rest of the team. The Lakers’ role players made enough shots — four players shot at least percent or better on 3s through the first two rounds. But only one player other than James and Davis scored 20 or more points during the Lakers’ 21-game march to the 2020 title: Rajon Rondo in Game 3 of the Western Conference semifinals against Houston.
By contrast, in this postseason’s 13-game stretch (counting the Play-In Tournament), the Lakers already have had 10 such 20-point performances from players not named James or Davis. Reaves has eclipsed that mark four times, Rui Hachimura three times, Russell twice and Schröder once. This is a far more offensive-minded group, one that does not require or even benefit from James and Davis doing as much heavy lifting. Yet they’ve been able to make the stylistic transformation work and maintain an elite defense due to Davis (sliding up to center) and James (ceding control of the offense) accepting that they had to adjust.
Superficially, there are similarities between the NBA bubble Lakers and this season’s rendition. Both teams were built around James and Davis, even if slightly different versions. Both teams were elite defensively. Both teams have had good enough shooting at timely moments, even if it wasn’t always reliable. Both teams had a certain physicality and force that could overwhelm opponents. Schröder and Reaves have similar moxie to players like Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Alex Caruso and Rondo. Hachimura has been that tweener scorer that Kyle Kuzma was, and then at times, a spot-up threat like Markieff Morris.
It also remains to be seen if the 2023 Lakers can finish off their run with the same exclamation mark as the 2020 club. To put things in better perspective, here is how the 2020 Lakers stack up with the 2023 Lakers through the first two rounds of the playoffs.
2020 Lakers vs. 2023 Lakers
The sheer dominance of the 2020 team stands out. Through two rounds, they were better than their 2023 counterparts — offensively, defensively, rebounding and passing. Their primary weakness was turnovers, which is the opposite of the current group.
But the 2020 team was a No. 1 seed, so their path was easier. Portland was worse than either Memphis or Golden State. Houston was probably better than both (at least the hobbled version of Memphis), though it’s debatable. Denver is much better now than they were back then, providing the toughest playoff test of the James-Davis era. And both Boston and Miami look like better versions right now, even if the Heat had a worse regular-season record.
Continuity certainly matters in the NBA. It’s arguably the biggest factor working against the Lakers in their quest to win banner No. 17.
Nonetheless, James and Davis are on pace to go down as one of the elite duos of the millennium. Shaquille O’Neal and Kobe Bryant are the gold standard. Kevin Durant and Steph Curry were unbeatable together. Tim Duncan and Tony Parker (or Manu Ginobili) had unprecedented longevity among post-1980s teams. James and Dwyane Wade led their team to four straight NBA Finals — a feat that can only be matched by the Warriors’ duo of Curry and Draymond Green/Klay Thompson. Bryant and Pau Gasol are probably underrated from a historical context, winning back-to-back championships and making three straight NBA Finals. With a second title, James and Davis can cement their place in that mix — arguably in the No. 3 slot, considering Davis’ run as a top-10 player in both runs.
But none of those tandems have demonstrated the same ability to shapeshift their own on-court identities the way James and Davis have in these two postseason runs. They’ve shown that if they stay healthy and get a solid supporting cast — of any kind, any style — they can, at the bare minimum, contend for a championship.
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If we are relying on Bamba for anything beyond garbage time minutes, we’re already ****ed
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538 gives Nuggets a 71% chance of winning based on their player model
Their EloForcast gives the Nuggets a 54% chance
Their EloForcast gives the Nuggets a 54% chance
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Really thought the season was over after that buzzer beater loss to the mavs
. Happy for the guys. (WCF with the 17th pick is pretty sweet too).
. Happy for the guys. (WCF with the 17th pick is pretty sweet too).
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I don't really know what our options are. We can't rely on AD to guard Jokic for 40 minutes because of fatigue, foul trouble and the fact that we need him on offense. On that same token, we don't have quality backup big men. We might be forced to rely on Bamba/Gabriel/Thompson to give us 15-20 minutes per night
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The only thing we are going to rely on Bamba doing is getting 6 fouls...and that's fine.
In other news....
