Law Graduate Gets Her Day in Court, Suing Law School

[frankmatthews]

Every single post of yours has been outright assumption/s[eculation. Did you even read the article. Sheesh

yeah I did read the article

she has debt of $170k for a degree that averages $137k

she was living off refunds like a lot of folks do because working while getting the degree would be too difficult, I hear the pity parties of over borrowers all the time

You're still just speculating. Yes I realize that's a thing, I did go to college. Pity party for over borrowers? Cause she would be so much better off right now with only $140k in debt, right? Yall are ruthless

 

[retro23j]

It should be noted that she was offered a full time position at a firm. She, however, declined the position because she didn't think the starting salary of 60K was worth her time.

She's entitled, plain and simple.




...

This part is why I'm surprised that the case is even going to court.

 

[dathbgboy]

On the real, high debt/low job probability was the exact reason I stopped trying to go to law school. the 90's boom oversaturated the legal market and it's not like there can be evolution and expanding like in STEM.

 

[stillin729]

You're still just speculating. Yes I realize that's a thing, I did go to college. Pity party for over borrowers? Cause she would be so much better off right now with only $140k in debt, right? Yall are ruthless

$33k less in debt is $33k less in debt

Let's act like 20% less debt is a few pennies, that's a good $400 less a month in payments

 

[Mark Antony]

Not saying he's right, but isn't stilln a student loan counselor or something like that? If anyone was to see it...

 

[stillin729]

Not saying he's right, but isn't stilln a student loan counselor or something like that? If anyone was to see it...

I'm in management, I know these situations, a lot are very similar and I can figure out debts from what I read

I could be wrong but given the 9+ years I've dealt with these situations, a lot of people over borrow because it's easier to live off then they don't get some great job instead of getting A job and it's someone else's fault

 

[frankmatthews]

You're still just speculating. Yes I realize that's a thing, I did go to college. Pity party for over borrowers? Cause she would be so much better off right now with only $140k in debt, right? Yall are ruthless

$33k less in debt is $33k less in debt

Let's act like 20% less debt is a few pennies, that's a good $400 less a month in payments

Lets not act like you know the ins ands outs of her debt situation. You took an average, applied it to her exactly, and assumed the rest was her living frivolously. Furthermore, $400 less a month is coming straight out of your ***. You don't know what you are talking about in this specific situation regardless of how familiar you may be with student loan processes. And you vilified her based on absolutely nothing factual.

 

[stillin729]

Lets not act like you know the ins ands outs of her debt situation. You took an average, applied it to her exactly, and assumed the rest was her living frivolously. Furthermore, $400 less a month is coming straight out of your ***. You don't know what you are talking about in this specific situation regardless of how familiar you may be with student loan processes. And you vilified her based on absolutely nothing factual.

Yeah I do know what I'm talking about though

 

[frankmatthews]

Ya don't

 

[jjs07]

How are you gonna tell a guy who's actually in the profession that he doesn't know what he's talking about?

 

[Belgium]

I just don't understand how a 1st world country doesn't have affordable education

Nobody should be paying tens of thousands of dollars or even above 100k to go to college/university.

 

[dathbgboy]

I just don't understand how a 1st world country doesn't have affordable education
Nobody should be paying tens of thousands of dollars or even above 100k to go to college/university.

We didn't get where we are by giving handouts b.

 

[trunks206]

Every single post of yours has been outright assumption/s[eculation. Did you even read the article. Sheesh

yeah I did read the article

she has debt of $170k for a degree that averages $137k

she was living off refunds like a lot of folks do because working while getting the degree would be too difficult, I hear the pity parties of over borrowers all the time

Spoken from someone who has never studied for the bar or went to law school. You simply cannot work full time to pay for hosing and food AND got to law school full time with the amount of studying you need to put in. It was insane the amount of work my ex put in, thankfully she had her parents to pay for her housing and food. Most law students go this route because you need to only concentrating on studying/reading/doing briefs to be successful in a system where everything is so competitive as you are ranked throughout.

The degree itself is 137K then she spent 33k of living expenses over 3 years of school that means she was living on 11k a year . Straight poverty. She sure as hell wasn't out living it up on the refund like you suggest.

 

[yeah]

I just don't understand how a 1st world country doesn't have affordable education
Nobody should be paying tens of thousands of dollars or even above 100k to go to college/university.

Colleges and universities take advantage of it here in the US, which is why its no longer affordable. Contrary to popular belief, the financial aid system in the U.S. is very good. Yes, they are far too willing to give someone a $100K+ loan for a worthless degree like Basket Weaving, but even that isn't necessarily a bad thing if the person who earns that degree goes on to make immensely popular $1K baskets.

The real issue is that people can't afford education because learning institutions capitalize on government aid. The best way to see the effect for yourself is to look up the tuition of colleges and universities in the past. Here's an example from a local university outlining the costs for undergrad and graduate students, who are residents and nonresidents of the state:

View media item 1941842
Now focus on the past 30 years. You'll find that tution rates have spiked higher than just about everything else during that time period. The reason? Public subsidies for universities. That article from the NYTimes Opinion section, but it was written by a university professor who goes in detail about the changes in public funding during the 80s and 90s which led to the huge increases in tuition we see today.

So, in short, we would have affordable education and superfluous amounts of money for public education...if institutions of learning would stop increasing their prices.

 

[Belgium]

In my country I can go to the best university in the country (and top 120 worldwide) for $1000 a year at most. It's reflected in our taxes ofcourse to pay for that but I'm happy to contribute to keeping education costs low. I think everyone should get the chance to go to college and our system provides that. We also have scholarships that are awarded based on income so the tuition for 1 year can be as low as $150.
Canada is another example of a great education system.

The fact that unless you're rich y'all have to be in debt for many years after getting a degree is ridiculous. It's not right, especially in a 1st world country.
That's my opinion.

 

[sea manup]

I just don't understand how a 1st world country doesn't have affordable education
Nobody should be paying tens of thousands of dollars or even above 100k to go to college/university.

To force everyone to stay in the system

It's a lot harder to not go the corporate route and find your own path when you have to worry about loan payments every month

 

[kickhead23]

This is a legitimate issue and something that is done by even the top tier schools. I graduated in 2015 and can attest that the incoming job data the schools show prospective students are garbage. The numbers are padded by the schools with obvious intent to deceive. For example, at mine and many others, the university would actually "hire" a good number of bottom tier students into garbage made-up roles at the university so that they can report them as "hired at a law-related job" for the stats, i.e., tutors for 1st-year students, admission recruiters, ambassadors, etc.

 

[rell lauren]

Oh them and others are wrong for misinformation, and this is a good catalyst to fixing it if it takes off, but I don't feel any empathy for her and her poor critical thinking ability. That $60k salary would've grown exponentially by now, or if she went the public route, she would be about a year away from complete forgiveness (if that's still a thing).

Those programs still exist, but how many prospective law students are looking to get into the public sector? If the incentive of repayment was greater you'd likely see more. Business schools are actually starting to give out more aid regardless of who needs it so that people are swayed to use their skills for the greater good rather than chasing a salary at a top bank or an accounting firm because they won't have a good amount of debt to worry about.

 

[dipsetgeneral]

Your suing your alma mater because you can't find a employer to hire you? Why don't you sue th employers instead of your alma mater?

 

[Master Zik]

Your suing your alma mater because you can't find a employer to hire you? Why don't you sue th employers instead of your alma mater?

Cuz the alma mater is lying to every student that attends.

@ suing employers for not hiring you. You gotta have cause for that.

 

[Brownstone]

I just don't see how they can legally bind the statistics to the school? What if the school relied on alumni feedback? The results are grey at most, I don't think she has a chance. 

 

[biggie62]

She went to a bottom-tier school, what does she want really? She should have done better research. If she attended NYU Law or Harvard Law maybe she'd have a case, but even then she'd get hired pretty easily unless she was just socially inept. If you go to a bottom-tier school you can't expect much unless you hustle on your own.

 

[daewing]

I graduated law school with $150k debt, worked a public interest job for 2 years and made less than $35k a year. It was extremely hard to borrow money from my parents to make ends meet, living with multiple roommates to afford rent, etc... But i kept a good attitude, worked hard, got a few lucky breaks along the way, networked my butt off, and now I thankful to have a job working in-house for a global IT company. It disturbs me that she had a job offer and rejected it. I may not know the full story of why she did it but in her situation, i think she should have taken advantage of that job offer.

One of the best advice I got from my mentor was that as a young lawyer, don't worry about your salary, benefits, etc.. Go somewhere where you can learn and get real hands on experience even if they pay you crap. Money and all that will come naturally if people see that you had a good attitude and worked hard.

 

[Master Zik]

I just don't see how they can legally bind the statistics to the school? What if the school relied on alumni feedback? The results are grey at most, I don't think she has a chance. 

Investigators. They just have to find evidence or witnesses that the school purposely knew they were making fraudulent claims, fudging #s, outright lying for a come up on increased enrollment.

I highly doubt when they talk up the school and their stats about job employment that they then say it's strictly based off of alumni feedback and even if it was the lawsuit would target them lying about alumni feedback.

 

[Brownstone]

Investigators. They just have to find evidence or witnesses that the school purposely knew they were making fraudulent claims, fudging #s, outright lying for a come up on increased enrollment.

I highly doubt when they talk up the school and their stats about job employment that they then say it's strictly based off of alumni feedback and even if it was the lawsuit would target them lying about alumni feedback.

Of course it would incorporate all these claims. What I am saying is, is that it is very hard to prove that the Law School manipulated these facts, which is what the case boils down to. Which, if you read the article, is why similar cases have been knocked down in several other states. You just can't equate a degree with "deserving" a job, regardless of the prestige of the school or the numbers imo. Especially considering the fact that she was offered a job. 

I'm just going off my college, which when asking me - an alumnus for money- always asks what I am currently doing for a living ect...While I have no reason to lie, I doubt if I told them I was a high level executive at a consulting firm -  they would be legally bound to delve into such claims before transferring my anecdotal conversation into their statistics.