Let's talk about Kobe's legacy......try your hardest to be objective...

[mez 0ne]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Bottom line is if he doesn't win one again, his legacy will be tied to succeeding only with Shaq.

But why is that a bad thing?

Its not.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is just a hater.

....and its not like Shaq was the reason Miami won either, he wasn't the same dominating figure and Wade + the officiating got them past the Mavs (pleasedon't make me post the youtube vids to prove otherwise).

Nobody can win a chip on their own, not even Jordan.

 

[davis]

Kobe = God.

 

[mjsaver]

Originally Posted by ericberry14

i just dont think mike carried that team to the championship... take out Pippen & MJ doesnt have 6 championships...

so i dont think he carried that team... saying he carried that team is completely downplaying Pippen/Rodman which people tend to do on a consistent basis

but back to the topic at hand... Kobe Bean Bryant right now is a top 5-7 player of all time... if he wins a chip i'd put him at #4...

he just doesnt get the credit he deserves because of the following reasons:

he came right after MJ & right before LeBron...

he has been a polarizing figure since he came into the league

his perceived arrogance & perceived sense of entitlement

the incident in Colorado

His championship success with Shaq/lack of championship success without Shaq

I AGREE WITH ALL OF THAT 100%

PEOPLE ALWAYS DOWNPLAY SCOTTIE PIPPENS CONTRIBUTION TO THOSE BULLS CHIPS..

Nobody remembers the BULLS were 1 EFFED up call from making the finals when MIKE retired....Though HAKEEM wouldve probly won had they played..
People will NEVER, give KOBE his due because he came in so close to the JORDAN ERA, if hed entered the league 10 yrs after MJ left hed be much moreappreciated..

Its hard for people to appreciate 2 greats @ the same time in the same position....

IT ALL COMES DOWN TO HOW YOU VALUE GREATNESS...
For some people its CHIPS, others its PURE SKILL....FOR ME ITS A LIL OF BOTH..

I've got him top 10 all time, but thats just me...

 

[got shoes]

Originally Posted by I NaSmatic I

There's no way Kobe is top 5-7 of all time.

Very true. Lakers alone "might" have 5 ahead of Kobe

 

[mateen cleaves]

Originally Posted by EnEyeKayEe

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Bottom line is if he doesn't win one again, his legacy will be tied to succeeding only with Shaq.

But why is that a bad thing?

Because Shaq won one w/o him. I can go into greater detail, but I think that says enough.

Well if Wade doesnt win another title then the same could be said about Wade.

 

[ericberry14]

Originally Posted by got shoes

Originally Posted by I NaSmatic I

There's no way Kobe is top 5-7 of all time.

Very true. Lakers alone "might" have 5 ahead of Kobe

the lakers at best have 2 ahead of Kobe...

Magic
Kobe/Kareem
Kareem/Kobe

 

[ezflash26]

There's no way Kobe is top 5-7 of all time.

If he wins a championship this year as a #1, he's def top in the top 7 somewhere...he's top 10-15 right now already, hands down.

and there is no way in hell Tim Duncan will be remembered before Kobe this generation (and its a shame too, cuz he's easily accomplished the most out ofany single player this decade). People dont give Duncan the credit he deserves now, let alone 20+ years from now...

@ dudes tryna make the argument that Kobe will underrated inanything. Nothing about his legacy will be forgotten: he was biggest/controversial star this decade, played in the 2nd biggest market, arguably the mostprestigious team, he won and had gaudy stats. Thats whats gonna be remembered more than anything.

 

[theyoungestgun]

so what does kobe have to do to be mentioned as better than jordan? offensively he's better than jordan (81 points), also a perennial allstar, only 1 timemvp, now he has 3 rings...

besides why is mj considered the greatest ever?? i know all the things he did, but it's not the championships cause then bill russel would be #1, andoffensively for his time he was great, but compared to now, his records are being broken.

 

[ultralightbeam]

Originally Posted by 80JerryRice80

MJ/Scotty=Kobe/Shaq

except Shaq has the upper hand.

Then why put the equals sign?

EXCEPT? That means they're not equal then you clown.

Shaq in his prime was one of the greatest, dominant players ever. You can't say the same for Pippen. So hush with that nonsense.

I feel like dudes just started paying attention to basketball or something SMH....like they're taking this MIA/PHX Shaq as what he's been his wholecareer....dude has been on the backend for awhile now....but c'mon now....Early 2000's Shaq >>>> your life.

That comparison is ludicrous. MJ had a good sidekick in Pippen. Kobe had THAT DUDE no one in the L wanted to match up with as a teammate.

 

[JD617]

offensively he's better than jordan (81 points)

 

[chi ill]

Why does everyone feel the need to compare players ? It takes away from the game . Just look at what the player has done individually & shut the @%** up .

Its tired .

 

[theyoungestgun]

Originally Posted by JD617

offensively he's better than jordan (81 points)

no? you dont think so? according to you throughout his career jordan was offensively better than kobe?

 

[JD617]

If the game was officiated back then like it is today, Jordan would've had a few seasons averaging 40+.

 

[downtown43]

Originally Posted by TheYoungestGun

so what does kobe have to do to be mentioned as better than jordan? offensively he's better than jordan (81 points), also a perennial allstar, only 1 time mvp, now he has 3 rings...

besides why is mj considered the greatest ever?? i know all the things he did, but it's not the championships cause then bill russel would be #1, and offensively for his time he was great, but compared to now, his records are being broken.

please tell me which Jordan records are "being broken." Kobe had one incredible 35ppg season. MJ had a 35ppg season, AND a 37ppg season.and those were followed up by 5 more 30+ ppg seasons. Jordan also shot .497 for his career... that is ridiculous for a perimeter player. i don't see anyoneplaying right now who has even come close to matching that.

MJ also won a DPOY, which i doubt Kobe will do at this point. and he has 6 MVPs... again, nobody can match that.

it's not logical to think that any current player could ever surpass Jordan. there's no point even discussing it.

no? you dont think so? according to you throughout his career jordan was offensively better than kobe?

i honestly advise you to do a little research before you post.

http://www.basketball-ref...players/j/jordami01.html
http://www.basketball-ref...players/b/bryanko01.html

Jordan averaged 30.1ppg for his career (highest in NBA history. that's right, higher than Wilt.) on .497 shooting.
Kobe is at 25.1 ppg right now on .455 shooting.

so tell me again how Kobe is better offensively than Jordan?

 

[craftsy21]

Originally Posted by Chi ILL

Why does everyone feel the need to compare players ? It takes away from the game . Just look at what the player has done individually & shut the @%** up .

Its tired .

i agree... it's impossible to ever come to a consensus on this stuff, and stupid to think we can compare across generations of sports thatfeature completely different styles and skill sets.

Players should be judged against their own generations.. and that's it.

 

[theyoungestgun]

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

Originally Posted by TheYoungestGun

so what does kobe have to do to be mentioned as better than jordan? offensively he's better than jordan (81 points), also a perennial allstar, only 1 time mvp, now he has 3 rings...

besides why is mj considered the greatest ever?? i know all the things he did, but it's not the championships cause then bill russel would be #1, and offensively for his time he was great, but compared to now, his records are being broken.

please tell me which Jordan records are "being broken." Kobe had one incredible 35ppg season. MJ had a 35ppg season, AND a 37ppg season. and those were followed up by 5 more 30+ ppg seasons. Jordan also shot .497 for his career... that is ridiculous for a perimeter player. i don't see anyone playing right now who has even come close to matching that.

MJ also won a DPOY, which i doubt Kobe will do at this point. and he has 6 MVPs... again, nobody can match that.

it's not logical to think that any current player could ever surpass Jordan. there's no point even discussing it.

no? you dont think so? according to you throughout his career jordan was offensively better than kobe?

i honestly advise you to do a little research before you post.

http://www.basketball-ref...players/j/jordami01.html
http://www.basketball-ref...players/b/bryanko01.html

Jordan averaged 30.1ppg for his career (highest in NBA history. that's right, higher than Wilt.) on .497 shooting.
Kobe is at 25.1 ppg right now on .455 shooting.

so tell me again how Kobe is better offensively than Jordan?



81 points, 61 at msg, 12 threes against sonics, 9 game streak of 40+ points, 55 in 3 qt.. besides you know that kobe can avg 30+ for a season easily, it isjust not required for him to do so..

but tell me, what will he have to do to be considered better than jordan?

and chamberlain had a higher avg than jordan.. but he's center so that doesnt count right.. and jordan has more championships.. but wait then there'sbill russell who had 11 rings..

 

[scotthallwithapick]

Posters like TheYoungestGun make me mad. Real mad.

 

[theyoungestgun]

dont be mad... please accept my deepest sincerest apology..anything, just dont be mad...i'm sorry

it's just a simple question. i know you are in love with michael jordan. i'm sorry

 

[ericberry14]

Originally Posted by ScottHallWithAPick

Posters like TheYoungestGun make me mad. Real mad.

i agree tho... he makes all kobe fans look terrible

 

[davis]

Originally Posted by TheYoungestGun

dont be mad... please accept my deepest sincerest apology..anything, just dont be mad...i'm sorry

it's just a simple question. i know you are in love with michael jordan. i'm sorry

. GET EM. I'm with TheYoungestGun.Kobe FTW.

 

[jville819]

Jordan averaged 30.1ppg for his career (highest in NBA history. that's right, higher than Wilt.) on .497 shooting.
Kobe is at 25.1 ppg right now on .455 shooting.
Kobe came off the bench for 2 years and also barely played his rookie season. Not saying he's the same scorer just pointing it out.

Its still not even close tho

 

[downtown43]

Originally Posted by TheYoungestGun

81 points, 61 at msg, 12 threes against sonics, 9 game streak of 40+ points, 55 in 3 qt.. besides you know that kobe can avg 30+ for a season easily, it is just not required for him to do so..

but tell me, what will he have to do to be considered better than jordan?

and chamberlain had a higher avg than jordan.. but he's center so that doesnt count right.. and jordan has more championships.. but wait then there's bill russell who had 11 rings..

Kobe is my favorite player, but the stuff you're saying just has me dumbfounded.

Kobe has a lot of INDIVIDUAL game scoring records... if you say that Kobe is a more polished scorer than MJ was, i might be inclined to agree. but to say thathe is "better offensively" than Jordan is just ridiculous. you'd rather take a guy who averaged 35ppg on .450 shooting over a guy who averagedthe same 35ppg on .535 shooting? MJ was clearly a more dominant scorer.. Kobe is just a more skilled scorer (ARGUABLY).

and Wilt did NOT have a higher average than MJ.. again, do your research: http://www.basketball-ref...players/c/chambwi01.html

him being a "center" has nothing to do with it.. when you do the math (points scored/games played), Jordan's average is just straight up >than Wilt's.

Bill Russell was on some dominant teams, and he played in a different era... so he is not relevant to this discussion. MJ and Kobe's careers actuallyoverlapped, so it is valid to compare them.

in the modern era, i just won't consider any player to be greater than Jordan unless they match his championship total (6), his MVP total (5), his FinalsMVP total (6), his defensive dominance (DPOY, 9 All-Defensive selections), and his offensive dominance (10 scoring titles, shot a ridiculous .497 for hiscareer). period. i might lean towards another player if they come CLOSE and show excellence over Jordan in other areas, but i doubt that will ever happen.

 

[downtown43]

Originally Posted by jville819

Jordan averaged 30.1ppg for his career (highest in NBA history. that's right, higher than Wilt.) on .497 shooting.
Kobe is at 25.1 ppg right now on .455 shooting.

Kobe came off the bench for 2 years and also barely played his rookie season. Not saying he's the same scorer just pointing it out.

Its still not even close tho

if i discount Kobe's numbers from when he was on the bench, i should also discount MJs numbers from when he was a 40-year old man playing forthe Wizards, knowing he had no business still being on a basketball court.

 

[Lizakers]

he will possibly be the greatest laker of all time, depending on whether or not he can win a couple more championships with the Lakers

otherwise, he will be a top 15 player and a great champion

 

[frankie valentino]

I was an atheist till i saw Kobe.