Let's talk about Kobe's legacy......try your hardest to be objective...

[ericberry14]

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

Originally Posted by TheYoungestGun

81 points, 61 at msg, 12 threes against sonics, 9 game streak of 40+ points, 55 in 3 qt.. besides you know that kobe can avg 30+ for a season easily, it is just not required for him to do so..

but tell me, what will he have to do to be considered better than jordan?

and chamberlain had a higher avg than jordan.. but he's center so that doesnt count right.. and jordan has more championships.. but wait then there's bill russell who had 11 rings..

Kobe is my favorite player, but the stuff you're saying just has me dumbfounded.

Kobe has a lot of INDIVIDUAL game scoring records... if you say that Kobe is a more polished scorer than MJ was, i might be inclined to agree. but to say that he is "better offensively" than Jordan is just ridiculous. you'd rather take a guy who averaged 35ppg on .450 shooting over a guy who averaged the same 35ppg on .535 shooting? MJ was clearly a more dominant scorer.. Kobe is just a more skilled scorer (ARGUABLY).

and Wilt did NOT have a higher average than MJ.. again, do your research: http://www.basketball-ref...players/c/chambwi01.html

him being a "center" has nothing to do with it.. when you do the math (points scored/games played), Jordan's average is just straight up > than Wilt's.

Bill Russell was on some dominant teams, and he played in a different era... so he is not relevant to this discussion. MJ and Kobe's careers actually overlapped, so it is valid to compare them.

in the modern era, i just won't consider any player to be greater than Jordan unless they match his championship total (6), his MVP total (5), his Finals MVP total (6), his defensive dominance (DPOY, 9 All-Defensive selections), and his offensive dominance (10 scoring titles, shot a ridiculous .497 for his career). period. i might lean towards another player if they come CLOSE and show excellence over Jordan in other areas, but i doubt that will ever happen.

great post... specifically that last paragraph...

that's why IMO Lebron wont be able to be the greatest of all time... i highly doubt he gets 6 championships & 6 Finals MVPs & 5 MVPs...

but i think Lebron will get the closest int erms of the MVPs & the defense acolades

 

[AirMagKnows]

okay, let me give this a try.

I personally think that Kobe goes down as one of the best offensive scorers when its all said and done. Kobe has the ability to drive to the hole in trafficand improvise for an amazing layup/dunk. His jumpshot is second to MJ, not the best form (Ray Allen) but the jumper is money. That and that alone does NOTplace him in the Top 10 of All Time where a lot of his fans like to place him at. KB24's defense hasn't been anywhere near ranked top 5 in the runningof Defensive POY Award at any point in his career, he plays good defense, enough to place him on NBA defensive teams but his defense doesn't match equallyto his offensive ability.

KB24 will go down as a great Laker but definitely not TOP 5 behind the likes of Magic, Kareem, Mr. West etc.

Unfortunately, his on/off court persona and attitude does hurt his legacy to a certain degree.

--"Rape"- Adultery situation --Imagine being a parent having to explain to your 8 year old child why their favorite player is in a criminal court andfor a rape charge.*
--Dry Snitchin on Shaq --Just because KB got caught up with "Rape" charge, doesn't mean he needs to get Shaq in trouble with his wife, what didKB get out of doing that other than creating problems in the locker room?
--Problems he contributed to in the Laker locker room because of his "little brother" role to Shaq. His discontent because it was not "his"team. Remember when Shaq even went as far to say "This year my mission is help Kobe Bryant win an MVP award" in like 2002 *correct me if I'mwrong.
--His Smug attitude that he has on the court, most recently "he can't guard me" every 2 seconds vs Shane Battier. We know he is a "greatoffensive scorer" we don't need to be reminded every time you make a basket.
--Is it just me or does Kobe seem to ALWAYS look at the ref for a whistle whenever his MISSES a Shot Attempt? Please just get back on defense.


Especially the fact that he turned his back on City of LA and the Laker Fans by DEMANDING trade back in 2007, especially during the Conference Finals seriesgoing on, quite drama queen route to take away headlines during a time so deep into the Playoffs. All over ESPN, am570, complaining about his team, managment,etc. Even had a video of him in Orange County shopping parking lot ripping Bynum and telling people to "get their kb chicago jerseys ready" Iunderstand that he was UPSET with the team, and I AGREE that he had VALID REASONS, but that needs to be taken care of behind closed doors like every other teamin the league. Other players have expressed unhappiness with their role on the team, city they play in, etc, but I don't recall a fiasco that resembleswhen Kobe went public with his unhappiness.

I will always respect Kobe's game and his passion. He will definitely go down as one of the hardest working players to ever lace up a pair of Nikes. Hiscompetitiveness a desire to win is right up there with MJ. Everything else in regards to attitude/off court not so much. Respects NT.

 

[jville819]

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

Originally Posted by jville819

Jordan averaged 30.1ppg for his career (highest in NBA history. that's right, higher than Wilt.) on .497 shooting.
Kobe is at 25.1 ppg right now on .455 shooting.

Kobe came off the bench for 2 years and also barely played his rookie season. Not saying he's the same scorer just pointing it out.

Its still not even close tho

if i discount Kobe's numbers from when he was on the bench, i should also discount MJs numbers from when he was a 40-year old man playing for the Wizards, knowing he had no business still being on a basketball court.


Why tho. Mike was still effective even tho he had no business being out there he still got it done. Shot a real nice %

Kobe didn't have the opportunity when he was on the bench. Mike was still playing +30mins in Wash. I agree with you on Mike being the much better scorer.

I'm just saying Kobe didn't get the opportunity's his 1st 2 years.

 

[chi ill]

Ericberry , agreed .

That's all I've been trying to say . KOBE IS THE CLOSEST THING WE HAVE SEEN TO MICHAEL JORDAN . Compare their awards , Kobe is way more matched thanLebron . But Lebron fans don't want to hear that .

Lebron is more Shawn Kemp than MJ . Where are the similarities in MJ & Lebron other than the number 23 & everyone saying any GOOD player can becompared to Jordan . I don't understand . I honestly think that if people would let Lebron live & stop comparing him to Jordan he won't get such abad rap .

I also believe that Lebron won't get as many MVP's , DPOY's , Rings that MJ has , so its no use in REALLY comparing them .

 

[downtown43]

Originally Posted by jville819

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

Originally Posted by jville819

Jordan averaged 30.1ppg for his career (highest in NBA history. that's right, higher than Wilt.) on .497 shooting.
Kobe is at 25.1 ppg right now on .455 shooting.

Kobe came off the bench for 2 years and also barely played his rookie season. Not saying he's the same scorer just pointing it out.

Its still not even close tho

if i discount Kobe's numbers from when he was on the bench, i should also discount MJs numbers from when he was a 40-year old man playing for the Wizards, knowing he had no business still being on a basketball court.

Why tho. Mike was still effective even tho he had no business being out there he still got it done. Shot a real nice %

Kobe didn't have the opportunity when he was on the bench. Mike was still playing +30mins in Wash. I agree with you on Mike being the much better scorer.

I'm just saying Kobe didn't get the opportunity's his 1st 2 years.


i hear you. taking Kobe's first two seasons out, he's at 27.6ppg... which is actually significant, because that puts him at #3 all-timebehind MJ and Wilt.

but is still "insignificant" in a way, because he's still a solid 2.5ppg behind MJ.

 

[krispacinla]

^^^Airmag with the truth.

Kobe is a great player, top 5 maybe, but not the best.

That title belongs to Michael Jordan.

 

[queencitysneakerqueen]

Originally Posted by got shoes

LOVE/HATE. That is his legacy

 

[th0mas cr0wn]

Originally Posted by Chi ILL

He will be labeled as one of the greatest to play the game of basketball .

 

[pdub9]

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

Originally Posted by jville819

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

Originally Posted by jville819

Jordan averaged 30.1ppg for his career (highest in NBA history. that's right, higher than Wilt.) on .497 shooting.
Kobe is at 25.1 ppg right now on .455 shooting.

Kobe came off the bench for 2 years and also barely played his rookie season. Not saying he's the same scorer just pointing it out.

Its still not even close tho

if i discount Kobe's numbers from when he was on the bench, i should also discount MJs numbers from when he was a 40-year old man playing for the Wizards, knowing he had no business still being on a basketball court.

Why tho. Mike was still effective even tho he had no business being out there he still got it done. Shot a real nice %

Kobe didn't have the opportunity when he was on the bench. Mike was still playing +30mins in Wash. I agree with you on Mike being the much better scorer.

I'm just saying Kobe didn't get the opportunity's his 1st 2 years.

i hear you. taking Kobe's first two seasons out, he's at 27.6ppg... which is actually significant, because that puts him at #3 all-time behind MJ and Wilt.

but is still "insignificant" in a way, because he's still a solid 2.5ppg behind MJ.

It's insignificant cause Mike shot damn near .500 from the field for his CAREER

and most years he couldn't hit a triple to save his life

When it comes to scoring nobody but Wilt is coming close to Mike

 

[downtown43]

^true. looking at FG%, MJ definitely blows everyone out of the water.

 

[guerrilla warfare]

ScottHallWithAPick wrote:

DAMN Brah...

...u went ol skool wit dispic...

 

[AirMagKnows]

In regards to the Kobe and Shaq: Who "Carried" the Championship Lakers.

Kobe was the best sidekick/ supporting actor (I like that analogy) to one of the MOST Dominant Centers to EVER play the game. That is the main reason why Shaqwon all 3 Finals MVP awards, and in 2000 league MVP/Finals MVP. A lot of Kobe fans FAIL to realize that the fact that because Shaq was on the floor, Kobe hadmany opportunities to score and get rebounds. 2000-2003 Shaq was the most intimidating player in all of the NBA. When LAL came to town, best believe thatwhoever the opposing team was, their gameplan defensively was: Priority #1 How to guard Shaq, double, triple team, HACK-A-SHAQ, how to get offensive rebounds,box out etc. Priority #2 Kobe, scoring threat.

Shaq opened the floor for everyone else like Glen Rice, Ron Harper, Big Shot Rob, D.Fish, and KOBE to perform because of the defensive attention that heattracted. Kobe Bryant definitely played a huge role in the Lakers winning the Championships, just like Manolo played a great role in Tony Montana reaching hissuccess, Apollo Creed assisting Rocky defeat the russian, and without Han Solo, Luke Skywalker would have never defeated Darth Vader.

Respects NT.

 

[ultralightbeam]

Originally Posted by airmag15

In regards to the Kobe and Shaq: Who "Carried" the Championship Lakers.

Kobe was the best sidekick/ supporting actor (I like that analogy) to one of the MOST Dominant Centers to EVER play the game. That is the main reason why Shaq won all 3 Finals MVP awards, and in 2000 league MVP/Finals MVP. A lot of Kobe fans FAIL to realize that the fact that because Shaq was on the floor, Kobe had many opportunities to score and get rebounds. 2000-2003 Shaq was the most intimidating player in all of the NBA. When LAL came to town, best believe that whoever the opposing team was, their gameplan defensively was: Priority #1 How to guard Shaq, double, triple team, HACK-A-SHAQ, how to get offensive rebounds, box out etc. Priority #2 Kobe, scoring threat.

Shaq opened the floor for everyone else like Glen Rice, Ron Harper, Big Shot Rob, D.Fish, and KOBE to perform because of the defensive attention that he attracted. Kobe Bryant definitely played a huge role in the Lakers winning the Championships, just like Manolo played a great role in Tony Montana reaching his success, Apollo Creed assisting Rocky defeat the russian, and without Han Solo, Luke Skywalker would have never defeated Darth Vader.

Respects NT.

QFT and QFE.

 

[AirMagKnows]

In regards to Kobe vs MJ.......

First of all if your Date of birth reads anything later than 1988, Your points ARE NOT valid. That is not your fault by any means nor as it should be taken asan insult, but watching Ultimate Jordan DVD doesn't constitute that you know Michael Jordan's career or the impact that he made on the sport. I canalso see why you feel so strongly about Kobe Bryant being the best in the world because you are OLD enough to been able to watch his entire career, and it isquite impressive to say the least.

What makes Michael Jordan the best to ever do is, aside from individual awards and stats (which are damn convincing evidence alone), is that MJ DOMINATED andNBA era that was run by the the Big Men and where flagrant fouls were and everyday accepted thing. Can anyone say hand check? Old school heads know what'sup.

Michael Jordan won 6 NBA championships (2 Three-peats especially) as the MAIN FOCUS of offensive threat by the opposing team WITHOUT a Hall of Fame Center.Look at the NBA Dynasties. Celtics had Bill Russell, Lakers had Kareem Abdul Jabbar, George Mikan, Wilt Chamberlain, and Shaq. The Bulls Dynasty is the onlyDynasty where skinny 6'6 kid out of North Carolina delivered 2 three peats, 6 Finals MVPs, not to mention, NEVER LOST and NBA Finals Series. In a era whereyou had Shaq, Hakeem the Dream, David Robinson, Karl Malone, Mount Mutombo, Bill Laimbeer, Shawn Kemp, Dominique Wilkins to name a few. MJ wasn't only #1,he was 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.

Speaking of which...MILK CARTON STATUS: CHICAGO BULLS Big men who won't ever see the NBA Hall of Fame Ballot, but have at least 1 championship ringcourtesy of 23.

Luc Longley
Bill Wennington
Stacey King
Bill Cartwright
Will Perdue
Scott Williams
Horace Grant
Chuck Nevitt

Respects NT

 

[ericberry14]

Originally Posted by airmag15

In regards to Kobe vs MJ.......

First of all if your Date of birth reads anything later than 1988, Your points ARE NOT valid.

and that's just the type of #@+@#** logic that makes nothing you said worthy of being read

 

[memphisboi55]

Originally Posted by HueyP in LouieV

No but they went to the Finals in Penny's second season and Shaq's third.

Great accomplishment.

Darko went and WON rookie year...

 

[bravo]

in my book hes the 2nd best ever

 

[AirMagKnows]

Originally Posted by ericberry14

Originally Posted by airmag15

In regards to Kobe vs MJ.......

First of all if your Date of birth reads anything later than 1988, Your points ARE NOT valid.

and that's just the type of #@+@#** logic that makes nothing you said worthy of being read

I take it you fall into the category...

"That is not your fault by any means nor as it should be taken as an insult, but watching Ultimate Jordan DVD doesn't constitute that you know MichaelJordan's career or the impact that he made on the sport. I can also see why you feel so strongly about Kobe Bryant being the best in the world because youare OLD enough to been able to watch his entire career, and it is quite impressive to say the least. "

Sorry if you took offense, but I already stated that it wasn't meant to be an insult, if you took it that way, thats on you. Listen to OGs, kid.

 

[niketalker23]

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

as one of the greats that has 3* champship rings

 

[emmanuel goldstein]

kobe is a cry baby ...

 

[ericberry14]

Originally Posted by airmag15

Originally Posted by ericberry14

Originally Posted by airmag15

In regards to Kobe vs MJ.......

First of all if your Date of birth reads anything later than 1988, Your points ARE NOT valid.

and that's just the type of #@+@#** logic that makes nothing you said worthy of being read

I take it you fall into the category...

"That is not your fault by any means nor as it should be taken as an insult, but watching Ultimate Jordan DVD doesn't constitute that you know Michael Jordan's career or the impact that he made on the sport. I can also see why you feel so strongly about Kobe Bryant being the best in the world because you are OLD enough to been able to watch his entire career, and it is quite impressive to say the least. "

Sorry if you took offense, but I already stated that it wasn't meant to be an insult, if you took it that way, thats on you. Listen to OGs, kid.

blah blah blah..

if you honeslty feel like anybody born after 88 has no valid points then this response is pointless... but anyways...

judging by your posts you fall into the category of an MJ stan... what most people fail to realize is that MJ stans are just as bad as Kobe stans, they arejust fewer in number since his retirement...

but oh well...

 

[quik1987]

Kobe came off the bench for 2 years and also barely played his rookie season. Not saying he's the same scorer just pointing it out.
Its still not even close tho

If Kobe was that good than he never would've been a bench player

couple other points

- If Anything
Jordan = Shaq & Pippen = Kobe

- Jordan MADE Pippen a 50 Greatest, without Jordan Pippen = Nobody
Just like without Lebron, Mo is not an all-star

- people saying Jordan had Pippen and Rodman, Rodman was only there for 3 chips

 

[scoopem]

Originally Posted by Emmanuel Goldstein

kobe is a cry baby ...

isn't every basketball player?

 

[stringer bell 32]

81 points

 

[Truth]

top 5 dead or alive